The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Tien2500]

We're not really asking for feedback. We're just kinda giving it to you; if you truly believe someone is higher or lower, we aren't going to change your minds.

The reason this tier list is as accurate as it is is because everyone got together and compiled our knowledge and went outside of their normal boundries. In the future, we'll know more about the unknown characters and it'll be even more accurate.

I'm not saying you want or need our feedback. But you said you compiled your knowledge and went outside the boundaries and went through all that trouble to gain useful information than maybe that information would be useful to us, especially those of us who don't have the opportunity to discuss the game with top smash players.

As for the join date I hadn't used the account much until 2008... (I was never big into Melee) so I don't know too much about the back room honestly. Lol. I don't doubt your credentials but the findings just aren't very useful without the data that went into it. I have to ask... what is the purpose of the tier list exactly? Just so we know the back room's opinion? Just so we have a standardized list of some sort? If so then thats fine but if the point of the list is to educate the community as to the potential of the characters (at this point in the metagame) then I really don't think its all that useful.

Oh and Chis its alright. No hard feelings.

 

[Kenrawr]

here's the thing: the masses are always going to complain. that's what they do best. Some of you are really good smashers. But most people on any random internet message board you pick are just going to throw a fit because they don't know what they are talking about. At least 50% of the people who post here have no idea what competitive smash feels like. They just play with the same 5 people in their town over and over and the one kid who plays with Sheik and ZSS beats them every time, so they think it's the character. They don't realize that the differences in character is not nearly as great of a factor in low level smash as it is when you are playing the best.

When M2K and ChuDat play, one can generally assume that the tech skill and mind games will be world class. There's very little technical difference between them. (there is a difference, but it's small.) what matters in that matchup is characters. If ChuDat plays with DeDeDe and M2K plays with squirtle, you can generally assume that the top tier character will win.

But when you put two random kids up against each other, the characters almost don't matter. What matters most is the skill gap between the two players. And that gap, at the local level, is generally quite large.

It's THESE kinds of players that say TR4Q, because they can't see past what their experience is. They don't understand the tier list, and they probably will never need to, since they will never get any better.



We never claimed to be making a tier list based on tourney placements.

Mmm, I miscomprehended a former post that seemed to praise you for finally giving a method (tourney placement). My bad.
I'm not trying to imply that I'm demanding a method, either

In that case, Takumaru. I do think that the placement influence do help from the best. Players that are good shouldn't be omitted.

 

[Takumaru]

Yeah, the biggest misconception about the tier list is it's based only on tourney placement. Tourney placement is a factor but many other things like match ups, characters pro's and con's and probably something else I'm forgetting come into play. Tourney placements are normally a vague indicator of tier placement but there are many exceptions.

 

[HeroMystic]

The reason this tier list is as accurate as it is is because everyone got together and compiled our knowledge and went outside of their normal boundries. In the future, we'll know more about the unknown characters and it'll be even more accurate.

Which is exactly way I wouldn't take this seriously. I personally think some of the characters were just thrown on there, but I'm not gonna argue about it cause it's too early to.

Not many characters get good representations in tourneys, especially since it's dominated by the supposedly high tier characters. I think after next year we'll see a "perfect" tier list.

 

[Overswarm]

Which is exactly way I wouldn't take this seriously. I personally think some of the characters were just thrown on there, but I'm not gonna argue about it cause it's too early to.

Not many characters get good representations in tourneys, especially since it's dominated by the supposedly high tier characters. I think after next year we'll see a "perfect" tier list.

We'll never have a "perfect" tier list. It'll pretty much always change.

However, look closely at the top 10. There will be some shuffling... but it won't change much, almost guaranteed.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow, relying on flaming already? Surely you can do better than that. So if I disagree with your opinion you have to insult me? What sort of example is that setting to the others?
By the way, I'm typing with the Wii browser. >_>

no one flamed you. Flaming you would be calling you a cok gobbling assface that gargles semen for breakfast.

edit: keepin it real 1 post at a time.

 

[Bowser King]

What sort of example is that setting to the others?

Did you just get back from school or something?

 

[WolfCypher]

The official Brawl tierlist

Top
Meta Knight
Snake
King Dedede
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
R.O.B.

High
Marth
Wario
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Diddy
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Pit
Wolf

Middle
Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Sheik

Low
Lucas
Ness
Mario
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Link
Captain Falcon

My speculated from loooong ago in the Official Tier Discussion topic

I guess I'll post my personal, not official, read this before thinking otherwise tierlist.

Top
Snake
Meta Knight
Marth
R.O.B.

I got a lot of flack for saying R.O.B. = Top tier. HA!

 

[Takumaru]

I speculate that on some random date all brawl disks are programmed to change the entire cast's strength and weaknesses in respect to the SBR tier list because we all know nintendo keeps track of this stuff. The only catch is you have to log onto wi-fi to get this update. It'll probably involve something like making falcon punch a 2 frame move, making all of ganon's aerials auto cancel, and rest will kill at 10% and hit people that are inside an area as large as luigi's final smash.

In other words I'm bored and don't wanna do chemistry.

 

[KevinM]

Ill be honest, im a bit upset(not mad) that even though Tx is clearly better than half the **** states out there, we are overlooked. Ever since MOAST3 tx has been overlooked.....

Texas isn't overlooked as much as they just don't have as many tournaments or OOS tournament experience as other regions in my humble opinion as a lot of the more respected smash areas. IE New England, MD/VA, Socal, Florida, and to a lesser extent WA.

It's all love though

in that no homo kinda way

or is it?

 

[Zodiac]

And so I post this list at another site thats semi gaming and the very next response I get is


TR4Q! (Tiers are for queers)

 

[TehBo49]

I speculate that on some random date all brawl disks are programmed to change the entire cast's strength and weaknesses in respect to the SBR tier list because we all know nintendo keeps track of this stuff. The only catch is you have to log onto wi-fi to get this update. It'll probably involve something like making falcon punch a 2 frame move, making all of ganon's aerials auto cancel, and rest will kill at 10% and hit people that are inside an area as large as luigi's final smash.

In other words I'm bored and don't wanna do chemistry.

And MK will die at 30% to jab combos, Snake's tilts will 120 frames of warmup & cooldown, Dedede will have Melee Ness' grab range, Peach's dthrow, & Mewtwo's weight.

 

[Chis]

Did you just get back from school or something?

No. And i'll keep it real :D

 

[Ori_bro]

And so I post this list at another site thats semi gaming and the very next response I get is


TR4Q! (Tiers are for queers)

that will be hilarious u should do that

 

[HeroMystic]

And so I post this list at another site thats semi gaming and the very next response I get is


TR4Q! (Tiers are for queers)

No wonder people here despise the phrase so much. >_>

 

[ROOOOY!]

I still don't understand Sonic's placing, and probably never will. '.'
There's just no justification for it at all, not even with the old "zomg no priarity no range lolololololol" argument, which people probably still front with no evidence at all.
Oh well, I expect no justification. Sonic mains never get any answers lol.

 

[AquaTech]

Call me crazy, but I agree with this tier list 100%. It just reinforces everything we've know for the last few months.

 

[Mush head]

I'm happy that Pit made high tier. (I bet many people didn't see that coming from a kid who is going through puberty. XD) However, I'm really miffed about Mario, Sonic, and Yoshi making low tier, especially Mario because it stands Mario at being not only a low tier, but as the worst Mushroom Kingdom character! I seriously need a very good explanation to why he is there on that part of the list...

EDIT: @the guy above my post: Are you serious? That tier list is 30% wrong. However, just as M3D said, it's only just the first version of the tier list, so technically, it isn't 100% correct. As for TR4Q, the phrase doesn't bother me. In fact, I support it for the fact that tiers don't exist in Brawl, not for calling tier believer players queers... XD

 

[Pierce7d]

No range, no recovery, no safe moves on block, in the air, he's weak from the front.

I like Mario though. He's really quick, and has so little lag. His Fair is classic, but bad.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

I still don't understand Sonic's placing, and probably never will. '.'
There's just no justification for it at all, not even with the old "zomg no priarity no range lolololololol" argument, which people probably still front with no evidence at all.
Oh well, I expect no justification. Sonic mains never get any answers lol.

Sonic lacks representation at big tournaments
Thats my guess atleast

 

[O D I N]

I apologize if this was brought up already, but I'm not about to go reading through 60+ pages of posts to find my answer.


Is there a reason Pokemon trainer wasn't seperated into different characters, i.e. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard? Perhaps there wasn't an applicable way to put them into the tier list, but I was just curious.

Thank you, and again, sorry if this was mentioned.

 

[Puddin]

I apologize if this was brought up already, but I'm not about to go reading through 60+ pages of posts to find my answer.


Is there a reason Pokemon trainer wasn't seperated into different characters, i.e. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard? Perhaps there wasn't an applicable way to put them into the tier list, but I was just curious.

Thank you, and again, sorry if this was mentioned.

Even a mod explained it, they aren't seperate because it's impossible to only use one in a match therefore they have to be qualified as one character in the tier list. Someone should add this to their sig and frequently post here to avoid the same question being asked 10+ more times.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Sonic lacks representation at big tournaments
Thats my guess atleast

It's more that there's only a dozen (being optimistic here) decent Sonic mains around. The good ones that attend tournies do rather well. Mr 3000 getting 3rd out of 88 at HOBO 7/8 (dunno which and I don't care to go and check) is a little proof, and I could give more examples.
I've kinda figured why Sonic's placed so low now.

 

[hyperknees91]

I still don't understand why MK and Snake aren't seperated into god tier on this list =/

 

[Puddin]

I still don't understand why MK and Snake aren't seperated into god tier on this list =/

Because Olimar owns Snake lol.

 

[hyperknees91]

He doesn't own snake, he just does well against him.

A counterpick is no reason to edge someone out of a tier category. Even if it was it still doesn't explain why MK should be in the same ranking as Falco.

 

[HeroMystic]

Even if Snake is somewhat broken, it's not enough to warrant a god tier for him. He is still quite beatable. >_>

 

[hyperknees91]

God tier =/= broken or unbeatable.

If they were unbeatable, then they would be classified as broken and then they would be banned.

 

[M@v]

He doesn't own snake, he just does well against him.

A counterpick is no reason to edge someone out of a tier category. Even if it was it still doesn't explain why MK should be in the same ranking as Falco.

yeah um falco can cg the crap out of mk.

 

[NJzFinest]

I apologize if this was brought up already, but I'm not about to go reading through 60+ pages of posts to find my answer.


Is there a reason Pokemon trainer wasn't seperated into different characters, i.e. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard? Perhaps there wasn't an applicable way to put them into the tier list, but I was just curious.

Thank you, and again, sorry if this was mentioned.

Unlike Sheik/Zelda... when you die, you turn into other character


>_>

 

[Mush head]

Pierce7d, that is not a good enough explanation for these reasons:

No range,

1. Mario has surprising range and effectiveness with his projectiles like the Fireballs and FLUDD. Mario's Fireball has more range when he is in the air than on the ground and it gimps recoveries well. Mario's FLUDD has good range to be effective.
2. If you meant his attack range, he has good range with most of his tilts, especially his ftilt, all of his smashes, especially his Usmash has a really good hitbox, his airs have a really good range and hitbox, especially his Bair.

no recovery,

3. His recovery is better than it was in Melee and it is not bad. Even if that were true, Mario has the abilities to prevent him from being put into a situation like that.

he's weak from the front.

4. Now that is not even a good enough reason for Mario because you have nothing but your word to back it up.

His Fair is classic, but bad.

5. By itself, it doesn't have a very good chance of landing a hit without lag to help, yes. However, Mario has good combos where he can finish it with a Fair with near perfect hits with or without lag.

There you go! 5 reasons why that statement isn't a good enough explanation for Mario being in low tier and as the worst Mushroom Kingdom character on the list. Mario has improved from Melee.

I like Mario though. He's really quick, and has so little lag.

That I do agree with you. He is really quick and even faster when jumping and like you said, has little lag. There are other things about Mario's strengths that I haven't mentioned in this post. My guess is that there aren't enough Mario mainers in tourneys to demonstrate his potential, let alone good Mario mainers. I finish this post with this: Mario FTW!

 

[Bowser King]

I apologize if this was brought up already, but I'm not about to go reading through 60+ pages of posts to find my answer.


Is there a reason Pokemon trainer wasn't seperated into different characters, i.e. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard? Perhaps there wasn't an applicable way to put them into the tier list, but I was just curious.

Thank you, and again, sorry if this was mentioned.

Even a mod explained it, they aren't seperate because it's impossible to only use one in a match therefore they have to be qualified as one character in the tier list. Someone should add this to their sig and frequently post here to avoid the same question being asked 10+ more times.

He said he was sorry if it was already asked. >_>

 

[HeroMystic]

God tier =/= broken or unbeatable.

If they were unbeatable, then they would be classified as broken and then they would be banned.

The general consensus is that Metaknight is so good that he has virtually no weakness. Snake is somewhat broken and it's proven with his disjointed tilts, but he's still quite beatable due to his bad air-game, which is why Snake doesn't warrant a God Tier.

 

[metaknighter]

ha ha, I really enjoy when tiers come out.

I couldnt agree more with meta knight. Its kinda sickening though because 90% of the online players I play against use metakight because Im assumeing they heard he was top tier or because people can use him easily, and then they go and lose to my toon link and get all angry because they lost with the "best character". But otherwise yeah, I like this list. Bowser got the bump up he deserved.

 

[Takumaru]

Even a mod explained it, they aren't seperate because it's impossible to only use one in a match therefore they have to be qualified as one character in the tier list. Someone should add this to their sig and frequently post here to avoid the same question being asked 10+ more times.

Did you just get lippy with O D I N?!

 

[Bowser King]

Did you just get lippy with O D I N?!

It seems like he did

 

[hyperknees91]

The general consensus is that Metaknight is so good that he has virtually no weakness. Snake is somewhat broken and it's proven with his disjointed tilts, but he's still quite beatable due to his bad air-game, which is why Snake doesn't warrant a God Tier.

Well fine at least mk needs to be god tier then, they have no reason to not have him as one.

Snake I am kind of unsure about but I would still put him under god tier if it were me.

Cable is beatable in mvc2 with lower tier chars, but he's still classified as god tier for an example.

 

[nicaboy]

Trying to guess Sakurai's logic, eh? A brave soul...

Anyways, I think he tried to nerf some aspects of Sheik, trying to balance the roster from Melee into Brawl (yeah, that makes sense, with MK). There are many aspects that didn't need a hard nerf, none other than Sheik's dair.

Oh, and can people really stop complaining/post surprised posts about tier placement? It does not help with discussion (unless given reasoning), this is only 6 months into Brawl's metagame (a stab at the dark), and... who cares? See my location if you do not find these comments annoying.

Question: Is this tier list a combination of tournament results worldwide? I would like to chat with a BRoomer in more depth (if willing) about the establishment about this early tier list (prefer to use a messanger for conversation, which I have an account for all five of them).

This is my entertainment for the next eight days...

Edit:Don't you dare start a Melee vs Brawl in here, this thread is bad as is. If you want to debate about which is more balanced, I believe the Brawl Tactical Discussion has a thread for discussion, I just can't seem to find it.

no thats not what im doing as you can see i compared it too to games i also wrote mvc2 . however the statement i made was in regards too the fact you can still win with just about anyone in the game in my opnion. as for the teir list its right in my opnoin with the top teirs and what have you

Or because if they say, "Lucas is low tier becuse he con't recover as well as other people." 5000 Lucas mains will coming BAAWWWWWING into this thread bithing about how they just don't know how to do it right. Not to mention the same situation for every Yoshi, Sonic, Peach, Samus, etc. low tier players who all think that their character is just as good as every other one if not better. they aren't, at lest not now in this meta.

Stop ragging on the backroom. If you think you can do better, on your own, then go ahead. List every god **** reason too. Then you can feel like **** when everyone and their scrubby friends moan and whine about your crappy reasons. It's pointless.

im in total agggence with lucas being low teir. or may even low in the mids regardless im not one of those guys who think because there good with their chachter that person should be higher on the list. i totaly realize everyone's elses potential in the game of course there is always exception to every rule like good ike players or hey good link players but that doesnt mean link or ike deserves top teir.

 

[Mush head]

The general consensus is that Metaknight is so good that he has virtually no weakness. Snake is somewhat broken and it's proven with his disjointed tilts, but he's still quite beatable due to his bad air-game, which is why Snake doesn't warrant a God Tier.

Well, the thing about Snake and his airs is a question of how much potential they have in the hands of the player. If it's a player who isn't experienced with Snake, then it doesn't have much. If it's a player who is experienced and plays well with Snake, then his airs can be very dangerous, especially his Nair and Dair. As for Meta Knight, I wouldn't say that he has virtually no weaknesses. His sword has priority, but it doesn't have as good of a range as Link or Marth. His neutral B can be outprioritized by projectiles MOST of the time. He is good nonetheless, but he is light like Kirby, so that means that he can be launched easily if hit by a smash or a powerful tilt. That's just me anyways... I just think that someone who plays all of Snake's moveset well can beat MK anytime.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I just think that someone who plays all of Snake's moveset well can beat MK anytime.

You live up to your username.