The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Takumaru]

It seems like he did

should we eat him?

 

[Mush head]

You live up to your username.

lol Well, I try.. XD Anyways, Sonic's place in the tiers is probably due to lack of participants playing as Sonic and/or lack of amazing Sonic players. (my guess BTW, so no flaming please) I still don't understand how Yoshi is given a bad place on the tier list because I strongly believe that he is good enough for at least a place in mid tier.

 

[hyperknees91]

Well theres gotta be more good sonic players than toon link players.

He has better tourny results at least, so I doubt it's cuz of a lackage of sonic players.

 

[Xenesis]

"So you are saying I should just believe everything I'm told by (the man) (the government) (the system) (authority) ?!?!?!?!"

It's so funny to me how all of the sudden kids are hating on the SBR because they see it as some governing group that looks down on all of them, not realizing that everyone in there are players, tournament organizers, and just regular dudes trying to help the community.

The SBR has that reputation *because* there's no transparency whatsoever.

To the general public it feels like this:

Tourneys/Etc Happens -> (Magic Black Box that is SBR) -> "Official" Tier List/Stage Ban List/Ruleset!

 

[Overswarm]

The box is grey.

 

[Mush head]

Well theres gotta be more good sonic players than toon link players.

He has better tourny results at least, so I doubt it's cuz of a lackage of sonic players.

Well, it might not be the lack of amazing Sonic players, yes. I really disagree with that list about Sonic because Sonic is my 3rd best main and he really has alot of potential against a number of tiers.

 

[hyperknees91]

Meh I kinda doubt it. Sonic will never get past low mid if he ever gets past low. Unless of course some miracle move is discovered for him.

I just feel it's kinda rediculous to put toon link at the top of the mid when sonic is the 5th from the bottom and has better results.

Now if their reason is because no one good plays toon link..........Then how do they know toon link's metagame is good enough to be classified as the top of the mid?

Then again I think I know the unfortunate answer to this.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

You live up to your username.

yes, and i love t3h avatar.

 

[ph00tbag]

The box is grey.

Funny, it looks distinctly purple from the outside.

 

[Pierce7d]

Pierce7d, that is not a good enough explanation for these reasons:

1. Mario has surprising range and effectiveness with his projectiles like the Fireballs and FLUDD. Mario's Fireball has more range when he is in the air than on the ground and it gimps recoveries well. Mario's FLUDD has good range to be effective.
2. If you meant his attack range, he has good range with most of his tilts, especially his ftilt, all of his smashes, especially his Usmash has a really good hitbox, his airs have a really good range and hitbox, especially his Bair.

Fireballs are good, but not OMG amazing, being a slow, low priority projectile. While providing awesome defensive zoning, and sometimes even an approach opening, they are truly hard to follow up, and easy to perfect shield. Even if you were to follow them up, Mario is weak from the front in the air, and you'd need to be in the air.

FLUDD is good for it's purposes, but let's get serious. FLUDD does not give Mario "range". His Fsmash has good range, but it's not a reliable attack, being slow and unsafe on block. His ftilt is one of his best ground approaches, and MANY characters outspace it with a jab, or their own ftilts or dtilts.

3. His recovery is better than it was in Melee and it is not bad. Even if that were true, Mario has the abilities to prevent him from being put into a situation like that.

Mario's recovery is bad. His UpB is decent as far as speed and priority are concerned, but he's not exactly fast in the air, with only an average midair jump. Being weak in the front in the air, he's easily forced to airdodge, and with such horrible range on his UpB, this make it easy to gimp him. He does have cape stall for a slight mix-up, but it lacks the range it needs to be an effective buffer against edge-guarders. Mario's recovery is worse than Ganon's IMO.

4. Now that is not even a good enough reason for Mario because you have nothing but your word to back it up.

You're correct. what I meant to say is, "Mario is weak from the front IN THE AIR." Since grounded movesets are the same, I forgot to include that in the air clause. Mario's fair does not have a lingering hitbox, nor does it have a lot of range, and it has horrible start-up AND ending lag. All in all, it's a pretty bad move. His Nair is decent for counter attacks and approaches followed up with jabs, etc, but it also lacks range. Uair is similar to Nair in that sense, with more knockback, and less of a lingering hitbox.

5. By itself, it doesn't have a very good chance of landing a hit without lag to help, yes. However, Mario has good combos where he can finish it with a Fair with near perfect hits with or without lag.

YOU DEFINITELY CANNOT COMBO OUT OF OR INTO MARIO'S FAIR. ASK ANY INTELLIGENT POSTER ON THIS BOARD. Good players will dodge, or hit you first.

There you go! 5 reasons why that statement isn't a good enough explanation for Mario being in low tier and as the worst Mushroom Kingdom character on the list. Mario has improved from Melee.

Well, I just rebuffed your rebuttle. And Mario had more options in Melee due to L-Canceling and a really good wavedash. Also, the cape was much better. Plus, Mario could combo in Melee.

That I do agree with you. He is really quick and even faster when jumping and like you said, has little lag. There are other things about Mario's strengths that I haven't mentioned in this post. My guess is that there aren't enough Mario mainers in tourneys to demonstrate his potential, let alone good Mario mainers. I finish this post with this: Mario FTW!

LOL! So you only agree with me when I'm saying things that make Mario look good? I play a very good Mario I'm told (though I don't play him in tourney outside of friendlies) and I can tell you that he's not really tourney viable, having no options against Metaknight, being inferior in every stat except weight(and he makes up for that with a recovery that is at least 6 times as effective) and finishing power (and his Usmash is garbage for finishing; only his smashes finish). Mario has 0 approach options against Metaknight, because MT outprioritizes Fludd AND Fireball. Actually, so does Drill Rush, and that even beats Mario's Dair I believe. Mario has no range on him, no aerial advantages, no ground advantages, and can do NOTHING about Shuttle Loop outta shield, well spaced aerials or tilts, or even smashes, lol. This is why Mario will never win a tournament with good players.

Mario fails in less spectacularly, but in similar ways versus most of the roster. I do however, give you credit for attempting to draw on what data you HAVE collected on your character, and putting up an intelligent argument, rather than just blurting out nonsense in an incoherent manner. For your level of study and what your post count/join date might suggest, your post was impressive.

EDIT: I just went back and reread my first post. I did specify I meant Mario was weak from the front in the air, though it might've been confusing to read at first.

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

62 pages in one day?
What's the record for first-day posts?

Seems reasonable. Seems like intelligent posters can back the choices up with good reasons, so pretty solid at this point in time.
I'm still hoping for a sudden metagame upheaval that renders Metaknight useless.

 

[HeroMystic]

Mario's recovery is worse than Ganon's IMO.

No no no. >_>

Mario has much more options in terms of recovery than Ganon does. Mario is a floaty character, and it'll take more than just a few edgeguard attacks for Mario to die, unlike Ganon.

Mario can reliably combo in the air, and does it well. U-air and B-air has good range and speed to accomplish such things. Btw, U-air has more range and speed than N-air, which makes it more reliable.

And U-Smash being garbage? U-Smash can KO at 120%, with Mario being a combo character, that's not garbage.

 

[Deleted member]

We never claimed to be making a tier list based on tourney placements.

that's exactly what we did. good job.

 

[metaXzero]

Luigi?

10???

 

[Zinc Elemental]

62 pages in one day?
What's the record for first-day posts?

*Sigh* Look at the post time on the OP please.

I'm still hoping for a sudden metagame upheaval that renders Metaknight useless.

In the same way that ATs made Shiek useless, right? *Rolls eyes*
MK is unlikely to slip much if any at all.

 

[Coldkiller]

Top
Meta Knight i can understand why
Snake How he is so useless well i only had the game for 2 day and just got snake
King Dedede No way that fat useless piece of S... sucks super slow
Mr. Game & Watch - hmmmm dotn cafre
Falco - Ofcourse he good wish it had been fox falco is kinda a cloon
R.O.B - Yeah reconized he potial he can be good

Well but i first have to play so more before i judge again

just dont like the tiers list and one last thing why o why link is last place i kick *** with link hell ya
well always low stay low yea yeah

 

[smashbot226]

We never claimed to be making a tier list based on tourney placements.

Wow, I have to show my friends this. They'll laugh until they bleed to death from crying.

I have a hidden idea that ALL you semi-intelligent fellows followed this list based on Tourney placements.

I mean, come on. It's not like I disagree with your list, just-

I wouldn't be surprised if that's all you followed. I don't respect EVERY higher-up on the forums...

Spoiler

Alpha Zealot & Pyroloserkid in particular...

Spoilers will unveil hurt feelings.

 

[NJzFinest]

What's with all of the Yoshi fanboys?

I'd figure if so many Yoshi players would complain about his tier placement, there should be a solid amount of Yoshi players in the competitive scene.

It's either most of you guys suck or Yoshi is in fact terrible.

 

[Pierce7d]

62 pages in one day?
What's the record for first-day posts?

Seems reasonable. Seems like intelligent posters can back the choices up with good reasons, so pretty solid at this point in time.
I'm still hoping for a sudden metagame upheaval that renders Metaknight useless.

What do you mean one day? This list came out the 1st.

No no no. >_>

Mario has much more options in terms of recovery than Ganon does. Mario is a floaty character, and it'll take more than just a few edgeguard attacks for Mario to die, unlike Ganon.

Mario can reliably combo in the air, and does it well. U-air and B-air has good range and speed to accomplish such things. Btw, U-air has more range and speed than N-air, which makes it more reliable.

And U-Smash being garbage? U-Smash can KO at 120%, with Mario being a combo character, that's not garbage.

Mario can do very minor "combos" in the air, Bair being his best move, but at highest level play, we do DI and airdodge, and those Mario combos aren't as reliable as even I wish they were.

Mario only has one option for recovery, Ganon has two (Side B and Up B). Ganon's Uair has as much range and as little lag as ganon needs to beat many opponent's in the air, and his normally bad Fair can muff people trying to hinder is recovery. Ganon is heavy, so he will generally not get his as far out as Mario. He also gets grab super armor, even in midair. Ganon also does not fall quite as fast as many might expect. Ganon can pretty much recovery from anywhere Mario can. Uair and Nair are for different circumstances, because Nair's hitbox remains longer, making it more "accurate", and better for approaching target's below, while being moderately easy to follow up. You're sadly mistaken on how hard it is to gimp Mario's recovery for most all of the character's in top tier, and most in high. NOTE: I am not saying Ganon is better than Mario. I'm saying his recovery is that bad, or not much better at all.

Usmash is awesome, but not for K.O.ing. Most characters that it K.O.s at did NOT DI well. Usmash is best used for punishing opponents who end up near and either in front of or behind Mario. Marth is very light, and Mario's Usmash will probably not K.O. me at 120 from what I've seen. Furthermore, it's useless as anything but a punisher MOST of the time. Fsmash is your ONLY finishing option versus a heavy character below 140%.

that's exactly what we did. good job.

Do I smell internal feud in the backroom?

 

[Delta_BP26]

Top
Meta Knight i can understand why
Snake How he is so useless well i only had the game for 2 day and just got snake
King Dedede No way that fat useless piece of S... sucks super slow
Mr. Game & Watch - hmmmm dotn cafre
Falco - Ofcourse he good wish it had been fox falco is kinda a cloon
R.O.B - Yeah reconized he potial he can be good

Well but i first have to play so more before i judge again

just dont like the tiers list and one last thing why o why link is last place i kick *** with link hell ya
well always low stay low yea yeah

nd ur stl grammra me cnfuse nknwn way of thng be to sed.

Coldkiller undrstnd grmamar nd spllng of me???

Really. I can barely understand this mess.

 

[Blaze924]

Top
Meta Knight i can understand why
Snake How he is so useless well i only had the game for 2 day and just got snake
King Dedede No way that fat useless piece of S... sucks super slow
Mr. Game & Watch - hmmmm dotn cafre
Falco - Ofcourse he good wish it had been fox falco is kinda a cloon
R.O.B - Yeah reconized he potial he can be good

Well but i first have to play so more before i judge again

just dont like the tiers list and one last thing why o why link is last place i kick *** with link hell ya
well always low stay low yea yeah

lmao, snake useless play me online n ull c y hes der, o n use link while ur at it n ull c y hes der

 

[smashbot226]

What's with all of the Yoshi fanboys?

I'd figure if so many Yoshi players would complain about his tier placement, there should be a solid amount of Yoshi players in the competitive scene.

It's either most of you guys suck or Yoshi is in fact terrible.

It's actually both.

 

[Deleted member]

It's either most of you guys suck or Yoshi is in fact terrible.

That hurts. Not really though, i actually go to tournaments and place decently so stfu =P. Most of the yoshis here dont even attend tournies. Its actually the first one, theres a few yoshis placing well out there.

 

[HeroMystic]

What do you mean one day? This list came out the 1st.
Mario can do very minor "combos" in the air, Bair being his best move, but at highest level play, we do DI and airdodge, and those Mario combos aren't as reliable as even I wish they were.

Mario only has one option for recovery, Ganon has two (Side B and Up B). Ganon's Uair has as much range and as little lag as ganon needs to beat many opponent's in the air, and his normally bad Fair can muff people trying to hinder is recovery. Ganon is heavy, so he will generally not get his as far out as Mario. He also gets grab super armor, even in midair. Ganon also does not fall quite as fast as many might expect. Ganon can pretty much recovery from anywhere Mario can. Uair and Nair are for different circumstances, because Nair's hitbox remains longer, making it more "accurate", and better for approaching target's below, while being moderately easy to follow up. You're sadly mistaken on how hard it is to gimp Mario's recovery for most all of the character's in top tier, and most in high. NOTE: I am not saying Ganon is better than Mario. I'm saying his recovery is that bad, or not much better at all.

I'm not saying his recovery his awesome, but it's better than Ganon's. As I said, he's floaty, which means he's going to be higher in the air if he happens to get hit while recovering, which equals more chances.

Usmash is awesome, but not for K.O.ing. Most characters that it K.O.s at did NOT DI well. Usmash is best used for punishing opponents who end up near and either in front of or behind Mario. Marth is very light, and Mario's Usmash will probably not K.O. me at 120 from what I've seen. Furthermore, it's useless as anything but a punisher MOST of the time. Fsmash is your ONLY finishing option versus a heavy character below 140%.

D-Smash can reliably kill at 140% if you're close to the edge. If you just so happen to live, Cape+FLUDD works for edgeguarding.

I'm not saying Mario is top-tier material, but you definitely are underestimating his potiential. How often do you visit the Mario boards?

 

[NJzFinest]

That hurts. Not really though, i actually go to tournaments and place decently so stfu =P. Most of the yoshis here dont even attend tournies. Its actually the first one, theres a few yoshis placing well out there.

Burntsocks, when I typed that post, I was thinking of saying "it's either all Yoshi players suck", but I changed it to "most".

Know why? Because I know about you lolz.

<3 wuv ya

 

[Deleted member]

=O

10weshouldrematchbutidontplayonlineanymores

O_O

 

[NJzFinest]

I don't play online anymore too xD

I was just bored over the summer

 

[metaknighter]

Top
Meta Knight i can understand why
Snake How he is so useless well i only had the game for 2 day and just got snake
King Dedede No way that fat useless piece of S... sucks super slow
Mr. Game & Watch - hmmmm dotn cafre
Falco - Ofcourse he good wish it had been fox falco is kinda a cloon
R.O.B - Yeah reconized he potial he can be good

Well but i first have to play so more before i judge again

just dont like the tiers list and one last thing why o why link is last place i kick *** with link hell ya
well always low stay low yea yeah

ahahahahahahahahaha...you obviously know nothing of anything about ssbb or metagames and tiers. First: Snake is amazing. I dont even use him and I know this.
Second: I highly doubt you know why metaknight is top tier.
Third: Don't base characters on there physical appearance. Thats just stupid.
Fourth: Falco getting to top tier has nothing to do with being a fox "clone" .
Fifth: learn how to spell and complete words.

 

[Takumaru]

Hey NJ, how's indy? The eastcoast is nice... I want my state back.

Hey is there a topic that somewhat explains why some members of the cast were placed where? Or is that what the weekly character discussion is for?

 

[Pierce7d]

I'm not saying his recovery his awesome, but it's better than Ganon's. As I said, he's floaty, which means he's going to be higher in the air if he happens to get hit while recovering, which equals more chances.

Mario would be higher in the air due to being lighter. Ganondorf has a more negative slope, however, with proper DI, this isn't a horrible problem. Mastering highest level DI is VERY important when playing Mario or Ganon.

D-Smash can reliably kill at 140% if you're close to the edge. If you just so happen to live, Cape+FLUDD works for edgeguarding.

I'm not saying Mario is top-tier material, but you definitely are underestimating his potential. How often do you visit the Mario boards?

I used to third Mario, and my Mario is still decent. I still know his strengths and weaknesses, and I'm not biased towards or against him, not being a Mario main, but playing him myself. You only backed up my clause by saying that Dsmash will kill heavy characters using good DI at 140% (although TBH it is probably a bit lower than that, 130% or so)

 

[Crystanium]

I already knew that Samus was low-tier. Still, I don't have a problem with that, because I want to try and get Samus raised from the low-tier position. I didn't know that Pit and Donkey Kong were in high-tier, which is interesting, because they are my alternative characters. What I do know is that I can **** with the ape.

 

[xXxSmasher42xXx]

**** you Falcon, you've been pushed down with Link. You sir have failed to show us your moves.

 

[Dastrn]

that's exactly what we did. good job.

I meant, not ONLY on tournament results.

Wow, I have to show my friends this. They'll laugh until they bleed to death from crying.

I have a hidden idea that ALL you semi-intelligent fellows followed this list based on Tourney placements.

I mean, come on. It's not like I disagree with your list, just-

I wouldn't be surprised if that's all you followed. I don't respect EVERY higher-up on the forums...

Spoiler

Alpha Zealot & Pyroloserkid in particular...

Spoilers will unveil hurt feelings.

The reason that Ankoku's List and the Tier List look different is because we counted more than just "who wins the most...lol....lets count!"

What is it exactly that you are showing your friends that is humorous? The concept that we put THOUGHT into the tier list, instead of just reposting Ankoku's list?

 

[Mmac]

@NJzFinest, I like the fact you are complaining about Yoshi Fanbois never STFU'ing, but I haven't seen anyone in this thread complain about Yoshi's placement since Tuesday. How do you explain that? >_>

And it's the first one. There's only three Yoshi's I know who go to tournaments regularly. Burnt, Bwett, and Pride (Pride recently quit ). I've seen more Falcons and Ganondorfs then him O_o! (Doesn't mean they're good though.) Also doesn't help the fact that Yoshi's always been unpopular, having an complex recovery and complex.... pretty much everything.

It's also the main reason why Olimar, Ice Climbers, Link, and Toon Link are unpopular and unappreciated. They're just too complex and it turns people off. Snake was SUPPOSE to be a Complex character too (and kinda is), but his go-easy Tilts pretty much change then general impression of his character and playstyle.

Anyways, Yoshi is unpopular, and just like Link, received an backlash from early impressions (Anyone remember the "Yoshi's been Nerfed lolollolollolol" Topics?), and is still suffering from it for some reason. Of course he he's not going to look good if basically only Two people represent him out of the Thousands of MetaKnight's, Snake's, Marth's, ect.


I still want to know what exactly is the basis of the Tier List. I'm actually more pissed off at Link's placement, and even Ike's placement (Ike is terrible!), than Yoshi's.

 

[HeroMystic]

I used to third Mario, and my Mario is still decent. I still know his strengths and weaknesses, and I'm not biased towards or against him, not being a Mario main, but playing him myself. You only backed up my clause by saying that Dsmash will kill heavy characters using good DI at 140% (although TBH it is probably a bit lower than that, 130% or so)

I guess I can't say I'm not biased with me being a Mario main, but the harshness of saying that Mario is not tourney viable at all strikes me as odd, cause everyone is tourney viable in Brawl, just some better than others. But when you also take into account all of the strategies, mindgames, and skills each character does, everyone has -some- chance against others, even the top-tiers. (Except Metaknight. That is the only character where I'll say Mario is doomed).

 

[hyperknees91]

I don't get why anyone is pissed at any placement on this list.

The only characters that makes results in a tournament is mk.........with snake sorta on that margin.

You shouldn't care where they are on the tier list if picking anyone below high tier is like committing tournament suicide anyway.

 

[Mush head]

Don't worry about it, HeroMystic. BTW Pierce, I wasn't trying to compare top tier characters like Meta Knight or Falco to begin with. (I'm just gonna face it that MK is an overpowered, overprioritized freak of nature. XD) I'm just saying that Mario doesn't deserve to be at low tier and as I said before, Mario has the abilities to help him avoid being on the wrong end of a situation. Also, you must be kidding if you're saying that the cape was better in Melee than in Brawl. (I'm not gonna go further with that subject because this is a thread pertaining to the tier list.) Morale of my posts about Mario here: Don't EVER underestimate Mario or you will learn the hard way.

 

[da K.I.D.]

disagree all you like, but i dont believe sonic is low tier, i think hes better than everybody in low tier, except maybe the bounders, but its really shouldnt be of too much consequence to most ppl

 

[da K.I.D.]

I don't get why anyone is pissed at any placement on this list.

The only characters that makes results in a tournament is mk.........with snake sorta on that margin.

You shouldn't care where they are on the tier list if picking anyone below high tier is like committing tournament suicide anyway.

lol this is funny, i play this game specifically to prove ppl like you wrong. although at this point youre right, unless youre azen, or NL

 

[hyperknees91]

I'm just saying it's no big deal if link is 2nd from the bottom if characters like ike/fox/toon link don't perform any better against the **** which is mk.

They all suck together =)