The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Deleted member]

..
I know.
Im just saying.
Regardless of whether he plays or not, 17th is impressive.

 

[DMG]

You could attribute his good placing to the other players "lack" of Shiek experience, which wouldn't be that farfetched since not only is Shiek rare to see in competitive play, but it's also rare to find "good" Shiek players.

 

[Deleted member]

i know kinzer just said shiek didnt place so i gave him a result.
Btw armada tied with atomsk and mike haze, which is pretty decent if you ask me.

I think shiek is right where she is personally, attribute wise.

 

[Kinzer]

Bad characters be staying bad and outside of top 10, with the likes of MK/Snake/Diddy/whoever else is dominant in the metagame.

I've heard claims of how Sheik should be B-tier. To me, that's saying that while Sheik doesn't have the broken tools of again, MK/Snake/Diddy/Etc., she can still place with enough work.

Tell me how Sheik gets around ICs for example and then maybe I'll reconsider, because when a character has their competitive viability jeopardized by somebody else, they belong in C/D tier.

P.S. DMG be stayin' sexy.

 

[gm jack]

Down B. Advantage matchup on IC. Sorted.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol.
Ive never heard of a zelda beat a top IC.
Ever.
But yea ICs **** shiek really bad.
and i agree she belongs in C tier.

 

[Kinzer]

Da****, how about we talk Solo Sheik, since the false SBR happens to have them seperate?

I know the two together are greater, but we're not talking about them right now!

 

[Metro Knight]

Whoever says Samus ***** Link is silly.
I don't feel like looking for Legan's post for which videos he's talking about, but if someone could link me so I could justify my claim with evidence, that'd be spectacular.

It was at some tournament. Legan won in the tournament, but Xyro won in the MM that is google searchable. But, Legan beat Xyro two matches in a row at a tournament. I think that match-up is pretty even, they both have their strengths.

 

[Llumys]

Oh no, a character that isn't tournament-viable beats another character who that isn't either.

I don't think one match-up between two bottom tier characters will effect the tier list.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Oh no, a character that isn't tournament-viable beats another character who that isn't either.

I don't think one match-up between two bottom tier characters will effect the tier list.

Sinceits so much fun discussing characters that are tournament viable and pretty much stagnant in terms of placement right?

 

[Tristan_win]

Da****, how about we talk Solo Sheik, since the false SBR happens to have them seperate?

I know the two together are greater, but we're not talking about them right now!

Da****, how about we talk Solo Sheik, since the false SBR happens to have them seperate?

I know the two together are greater, but we're not talking about them right now!

They really shouldn't be separate because of the ice climber match up. My Zelda is pretty horrible but because of Zelda natural traits she can deal with the ice climber easier then say sheik but even so sheik CAN fight ice climbers she just lose her combos but even so it’s not worst then 30/70 but I’m very bias in ratios.
edit: To sum up everything I'm about to say, we need more time.

Anyways the main reason or what I believe is the main reason why sheik isn't putting up the results like other characters in B tier is because we STILL do not know how to use her universally.


What do I mean by that? I mean other characters boards like the sonics have gotten their **** together and have put into clear view how sonic SHOULD be used. With people like Tenki to help put the real foundation down for sonic so that other people could build upon it which is how sonic has reach the amazing place he is today. The sheik boards never really had that.

Obviously sheik wasn't very popular near the end of melee and after the nerfs she got even less popular so few intelligent smashers still used her at all and of those few I doubt all of them posted on smashboards. Out of those people though one person emerged and to this day I still believe he has one of the best sheik, I'm speaking about RyokoYasha. Sadly he too decided to leave but mainly because brawl is brawl. He has plenty of videos online but since he didn't kick enough *** at tounys due to the fact he stop going no one started copying him which is what we should of done.
All the other people who use sheik either don’t main her or most likely just not good enough as smasher to reach a point to really turn enough heads(No offense everyone.) but the people they fight in friendlies do realize how good she is which is why she is where she is today and not below fricken ike.


…I mean will are still plague with people who think the chain is useless! Who don't want to learn dacus because "it's too hard" or "it might not be worth it" Heck even fricken gimpy didn't learn how to dacus and publicly said so because he didn't care enough and people still respect that man sheik. It's hard to proceed in such a crappy environment which I'm ever so thankful for is finally changing for the better.

edit: Fight a good sheik player once you do you will realize she does belong in a higher place then where she is today.

 

[<π]

I disagree with the singular way to play a character. In my opinion what make sheik such a strong character is the fact that you don't have to play her one way. She is very adaptable to different situations and can be played well any number of ways because her moveset is so safe. All the metas don't copy M2k's play style and they and he is still a very strong character. Snake is one of the most diverse characters in the game.

If there isn't some idol to follow be your own go out their and find out what works and what doesn't for you. thats why my sheik is a monster right now.

 

[zeldspazz]

Zelda and Sheik were made to compliment each other. Together, I believe they have the potential (not atm though) to reach B tier (if they were on the list together.) Alone, Zelda is top E tier, and Sheik is Top C tier. Kinzer, do you believe that Sheik should be D tier like on Calibur's list? If so, why?

Also, @brunstocks, you've never heard of that cus most tourney going Sheik's dont take the time to actually learn Zelda and use her against the characters she does better than Sheik, instead they just pick a high tier. I cant blame them, but seriously, Zelda was made for Sheik. Use them both -.- Peopl cans get passed she low tier by herself. She's low tier cus she gets hurt by a majority of the high tiers, but against the ones that she does good against, Sheik does worse. So, wouldnt it be good to learn Zelda for those matchups? ZoMG LOgiCs!? >_>

 

[mountain_tiger]

Zelda and Sheik were made to compliment each other. Together, I believe they have the potential (not atm though) to reach B tier (if they were on the list together.) Alone, Zelda is top E tier, and Sheik is Top C tier. Kinzer, do you believe that Sheik should be D tier like on Calibur's list? If so, why?

Also, @brunstocks, you've never heard of that cus most tourney going Sheik's dont take the time to actually learn Zelda and use her against the characters she does better than Sheik, instead they just pick a high tier. I cant blame them, but seriously, Zelda was made for Sheik. Use them both -.- Peopl cans get passed she low tier by herself. She's low tier cus she gets hurt by a majority of the high tiers, but against the ones that she does good against, Sheik does worse. So, wouldnt it be good to learn Zelda for those matchups? ZoMG LOgiCs!? >_>

I agree about them being B Tier together. And yes, they were essentially designed to be played together. It's been that way since Melee, though in Melee they made Sheik too good, so Zelda got neglected.

What I find annoying is when people say that Zelda is bottom 5. No offense to people who say that, but she really isn't. Even Mr Eh says she isn't bottom 5, and he slates Zelda in practically every post he makes over there. Top of E Tier sounds about right; maybe bottom of D.

 

[_Keno_]

So, with all this talk about the next tier list, has it been announced when it will be coming out? (and tell me where it says that, for future reference).

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

So, with all this talk about the next tier list, has it been announced when it will be coming out? (and tell me where it says that, for future reference).

I don't have a clue. We really shouldn't get another tier list until spring next year.

With every tier list, there's somebody that's butthurt. Whether it's still in S tier or below and/or .

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't have a clue. We really shouldn't get another tier list until spring next year.

With every tier list, there's somebody that's butthurt. Whether it's still in S tier or below and/or .

I'm baffled that anyone thinks Falco is anything but S-tier; the things he can do with his lasers are crazy. You could put Falco's nB on Captain Falcon and he'd be at least A tier.

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm here to disprove the claim that DDD can not approach. This is from a chat between SuSa and Afrothunder. Afro is Badmisterrrfrost.

Badmisterrrfrost (3:10:56 Pm): This Guy, Ran Ij
Badmisterrrfrost (3:11:02 Pm): Iunno Who He Is
Badmisterrrfrost (3:11:04 Pm): Maybe Hes Good Iunno
Invokke08havokk (3:11:13 Pm): He Places Now And Then From The Results I've Seen
Invokke08havokk (3:11:14 Pm): Mostly Top 5
Badmisterrrfrost (3:11:18 Pm): Which Tourneys
Invokke08havokk (3:11:23 Pm): I'd Have To Go Searching Again
Invokke08havokk (3:11:28 Pm): I've Just Seen Him In Results Here And There
Invokke08havokk (3:11:34 Pm): So I Sent Him The Invite To The Ss Grou[
Invokke08havokk (3:11:37 Pm): Group*
Invokke08havokk (3:11:48 Pm): And Ken Neth Beat Rich Brown, Socal's Best Olimar. Lol
Invokke08havokk (3:11:58 Pm): So He'll Be Helping In The Olimar Matchup =p
Badmisterrrfrost (3:12:21 Pm): He Says Most D3s Arent Used To Approaching
Badmisterrrfrost (3:12:22 Pm): Thats Pretty Lol
Badmisterrrfrost (3:12:25 Pm): The Reason D3 Owns Snake Is Cuz
Badmisterrrfrost (3:12:28 Pm): He Can Approach Safely
Badmisterrrfrost (3:12:29 Pm): By Just Walking
Badmisterrrfrost (3:12:31 Pm): He Doesnt Need To Dash
Badmisterrrfrost (3:12:39 Pm): D3 Standing Grab Beats Every Snake Option On The Ground

If D3 can approach Snake, a man with an uptilt that scares half the cast. Who can't he approach?

 

[LoganW]

crashic why do you always refer to what other people say and where do you you even get all these quotes lol

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I'm baffled that anyone thinks Falco is anything but S-tier; the things he can do with his lasers are crazy. You could put Falco's nB on Captain Falcon and he'd be at least A tier.

Exactly.

 

[LoganW]

laz0rs are pretty good

 

[CRASHiC]

crashic why do you always refer to what other people say and where do you you even get all these quotes lol

I got that quote from the Snake boards, and I don't always, I argued this same thing with another D3 player, and stated that the fact that everyone camps us, and yet we still win or go even with these people shows that D3 CAN approach, because as D3 we are ALWAYS forced to, unless we have the lead.

 

[LoganW]

true. Can't you just walk up and power shield in this game cause the timing is so easy
D3 doesn't approach in the air often though cause his aerial mobility kinda sucks :D
But you can air camp projectiles

 

[CRASHiC]

true. Can't you just walk up and power shield in this game cause the timing is so easy
D3 doesn't approach in the air often though cause his aerial mobility kinda sucks :D
But you can air camp projectiles

Excuse me :/ We love air approaching.
Bair
downair
inhale.

Its how we beat Olimar, go even wtih Diddy Kong, and use it against others as well. You don't have to be Wario to air approach.

 

[LoganW]

ok that makes more sense but he has bad air mobility i know that
what about on fd?
can't diddy just wait for you to fall to the grand cause you don'y have any platforms?

 

[CRASHiC]

We generally are going to be downairing them while they are in their shield. We Can also auto cancel bair or down air to cover our weakness.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Whoever says Samus ***** Link is silly.
I don't feel like looking for Legan's post for which videos he's talking about, but if someone could link me so I could justify my claim with evidence, that'd be spectacular.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8578711#post8578711

 

[LoganW]

We generally are going to be downairing them while they are in their shield. We Can also auto cancel bair or down air to cover our weakness.

I mean they literally just walk away from you. You are slow in the air and you dont have platforms to land on. Diddy has 1 banana in hand. What do you do in this situation? This is of course assuming you were an idiot and didn't ban fd

 

[CRASHiC]

I mean they literally just walk away from you. You are slow in the air and you dont have platforms to land on. Diddy has 1 banana in hand. What do you do in this situation? This is of course assuming you were an idiot and didn't ban fd

We walk up, grab the banana with Down air as we rise up, then start pressuring him from above with down air.

 

[LoganW]

sorry for not being clear, i'm saying that you are in the air with him below you and you took to the air because you were being heavily pressured

 

[CRASHiC]

Down air to the edge and start planking
Nah, but seriously, auto cancel an aerial and buffer a jump to make it be like we never even landed.

 

[LoganW]

doesn't he just get you w/ a banana?

 

[CRASHiC]

Remember that in Brawl, if you autocancel an aerial, buffer a jump, you have infinite double jump, and we have multiple jumps, so it works even better than us, Kirby too.

 

[LoganW]

woah, that's pretty cool
so you can never have to touch the ground?
I though only bowser and charizard could do that

 

[CRASHiC]

everyone can. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1717XkvdhrE

 

[Tien2500]

You're not understanding, it isnt that Ivy is getting equal weight, its that she is assumed to be a part of PT.
SO if the PT is playing a MK, Ivysaur shall hardly see any play because squirtle and charizard deal with im better. It is assumed that the three pokemon will be used to as well as humanly possible.

Usage has nothing to do with it.
The pokemon aren't being weighed equally, it is that they are being weighed according to their contribution towards PT.

However, because Ivysaur is so bad and you have no choice but to use Ivysaur, it pulls down PT in spite of Squirtles good abilities.

So a matchup that would potentially be in PT's favor is now no longer because she is bad.

Delayed reaction but w/e. In Calibur's list the Pokemon are being weight equally. The ranking for Pokemon is the exact average of the three components so I'm assuming thats how he did it.

In Calibur's list he gave all the poke equal weight. If you're saying that they shouldn't be given equal weight than I'm not really sure what we're arguing about.

 

[Kinzer]

Post.

Fair enough. Know that I am not really against you, I just really hate theorycrafting and would much rather be swayed by cold-hard evidence/facts.

Zelda and Sheik were made to compliment each other. Together, I believe they have the potential (not atm though) to reach B tier (if they were on the list together.) Alone, Zelda is top E tier, and Sheik is Top C tier. Kinzer, do you believe that Sheik should be D tier like on Calibur's list? If so, why?

Did I say Sheik should be D-tier? I'm sorry if I said that specifically, as that's not quite true. Taking a good look at the list again, Calibur has questionable characters, so the tiers will be a bit different, like Sonic in D-Tier (and WTF being below the Earthbound boys specifically?) due to the major influx of additional characters. If you read my previous post, I said how anything in B-Tier can get around on their own with enough work and dedication, yes? With Solo Sheik, this is not the case... right?

However Sheik is not in the same department as the characters in the official 3.0 versions of D-tier and below. Sheik actually has a couple of advantageous matchups (Am I right on this?), and for some characters in C-tier and below (Fox/Wolf being prime examples) is a nightmare of a MU. Since there's no such thing as a B-C tier, I would much prefer that Sheik be put somewhere in the middle or at the upper half of C-tier, because again B-Tier to my standards would not be consistent, even if she were put in the bottom of that pack.

...Jeez, since when did opening up bring up reasonable arguments? I avoided doing something like this because to what a lot of people would consider, my opinions are very radical, and would cause tension, which would just end up in flames.

...I may just come back here again, just to see what may happen... I'm looking at people who think Sonic need to drop, and uhm what else... Err... meh, that's the only thing I may feel like disputing right now. I would be going into a suicide mission though, unfortunately not even some of the Sonic mains think he should be where he is (probably because some are still butthurt we can't take money from Low-Tier tourneys anymore. Notice how I don't single out anybody, please don't give me any hate-mail. -_-), when I think he is within reason where he is.

MAYBE a couple of places higher, but nothing extreme like +8 (though that would be awesome.)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm baffled that anyone thinks Falco is anything but S-tier; the things he can do with his lasers are crazy. You could put Falco's nB on Captain Falcon and he'd be at least A tier.

Listen to this man.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Delayed reaction but w/e. In Calibur's list the Pokemon are being weight equally. The ranking for Pokemon is the exact average of the three components so I'm assuming thats how he did it.

In Calibur's list he gave all the poke equal weight. If you're saying that they shouldn't be given equal weight than I'm not really sure what we're arguing about.

I am arguing that because of the PT's playstyle, the pokemon cannot be seperated as individual characters on the tierlist.

 

[gm jack]

Fair enough. Know that I am not really against you, I just really hate theorycrafting and would much rather be swayed by cold-hard evidence/facts.



Did I say Sheik should be D-tier? I'm sorry if I said that specifically, as that's not quite true. Taking a good look at the list again, Calibur has questionable characters, so the tiers will be a bit different, like Sonic in D-Tier (and WTF being below the Earthbound boys specifically?) due to the major influx of additional characters. If you read my previous post, I said how anything in B-Tier can get around on their own with enough work and dedication, yes? With Solo Sheik, this is not the case... right?

However Sheik is not in the same department as the characters in the official 3.0 versions of D-tier and below. Sheik actually has a couple of advantageous matchups (Am I right on this?), and for some characters in C-tier and below (Fox/Wolf being prime examples) is a nightmare of a MU. Since there's no such thing as a B-C tier, I would much prefer that Sheik be put somewhere in the middle or at the upper half of C-tier, because again B-Tier to my standards would not be consistent, even if she were put in the bottom of that pack.

The point is the IC matchup is never going to happen. Why consider a weakness when she has a perfectly legitimate get out of jail free card. It is no reason to hold her back a tier, when she does have a get around. This should stand even if they are considered separate characters.