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if they wavebounced it right there might not be enough time to run up and try to punish.
you may get punished instead.
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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
- Status
you may get punished instead.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Uhh being better defensively doesnt matter too much because both are pretty goodish. Except against meta knight. She doesnt have a reliable way to approach when she is behind and her projectile isnt that good. Maybe a little better than yoshis for camping.
Yoshi has like a billion approach options and they all suck but at least its better than whatever zelda can do (see:nothing)
I dunno how zelda does vs MK, but she seems to do just as poorly vs the rest of the top tiers (and yoshi does better i think vs falco, wario, and marth, at the very least). And yoshi has better matchups throughtout the board anyways (not judging off matchup charts, just general knowledge/what ive seen and been told).
If a zelda places top 5 in that wifi thing, ill be very upset.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
I can tell you what's going to happen:
Reflex will win due to the fact it's Reflex, but will claim it's because of his character which will somehow lead to yet another tier list of PT being way too high.
Everyone will grip about Ike being OP'd on wifi.....somehow. I still don't understand that one. I'm fully expecting second at least, maybe second + third or fourth.
Probably one Zelda will make top 4. Honestly she's good against basically everyone below her, I'll be surprised if she doesn't make top 4.
Bowser will miss the top 4 due to wifi being really bad if you're slow (unless your Ike according to most people...)
Either Ness or Mario will take the remaining top 4 spot unless Ike claimed two.
*insert massive list of wifi johns here from anyone who didn't place top 4*
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I'm sorry, it's true.
Latency (NOT lag) adds frames to the time betwen when you input a move and when it's executed. That increases the reaction time needed to effectively counter-act a move.
That advantages Ike, and multiple other characters that are higher then the reaction gap, but not too high so wifi latency can't eliminate it (no falcon punches).
That, combined with the fact that Ike kills at like 10, makes Ike extremely powerful on wifi, the fact that people have to predict instead of react to his kill moves.
Also, yes, Reflex will win cause it's reflex, or at least place very high. And then everyone will think it's PT.
Pokèmon Trainer is better than all that D Tier trash he's currently grouped with.
Do other low-tier mains not have good player representation? I don't understand what you mean.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
No... you're just that much better.
Pokèmon Trainer is better than all that D Tier trash he's currently grouped with.
Do other low-tier mains not have good player representation? I don't understand what you mean.
The point is more that you're good enough to not establish anything, just because you're that much better, I can't really think of any other low tier mains who are comparable to you.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
PT needs to switch places with where Ness is currently, then he'll be in the right place. Either that, or I just need to get 80 scrubs together for a tournament and beat them all using Ike. And then Lucas, and then Mario. All the way down to Ness, however many tournaments that is. I'm too lazy to look at the first page. >_>
Was that a shot at the 81-man tournament I attended? :<
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Yes. A not so disguised shot.
There where what, two people who were remotely threats to you from what I understand. You get a 'B+' for tournament size, but an 'F' in tournament quality. Hence me talking about finding a bunch of scrubs and beating them.
I'll believe PT should be D tier when I see you win a tournament with the other 7 slots containing well known, respected Brawls who are on par with you ability wise. Or if I see other PTs winning tournaments that size (which I don't).
There where what, two people who were remotely threats to you from what I understand. You get a 'B+' for tournament size, but an 'F' in tournament quality. Hence me talking about finding a bunch of scrubs and beating them.
I'll believe PT should be D tier when I see you win a tournament with the other 7 slots containing well known, respected Brawls who are on par with you ability wise. Or if I see other PTs winning tournaments that size (which I don't).
Yukiwarashi
Smash Champion
Wow, Nidtendofreak is probably the biggest PT basher I've ever met. What the heck did Pokemon Trainer do to him?
Did Charizard dig his nails into his hand while not letting him up? Did he whisper "Long live the king" into his ear before letting him fall into a horde of women that just got news of a sale at the mall?
Did Squirtle come down with a long katana and stab through him while he was praying in light?
Did Pokemon Trainer get Ivysaur to tie him up and force him to watch repeated showings of Twilight without food or water for a whole week?
I don't think we'll ever know. =(
Did Charizard dig his nails into his hand while not letting him up? Did he whisper "Long live the king" into his ear before letting him fall into a horde of women that just got news of a sale at the mall?
Did Squirtle come down with a long katana and stab through him while he was praying in light?
Did Pokemon Trainer get Ivysaur to tie him up and force him to watch repeated showings of Twilight without food or water for a whole week?
I don't think we'll ever know. =(
Quote of the week?
I think so.
But, if you come to 'Suaga Outbreak, my Yoshi is going to **** your Pokemon Trainer this time. =D
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Ike's just don't like people who fight for their friends.
And the stamina thing could be interpreted as sympathy; that doesn't fly with Ike's either.
That doesn't make sense. If that was the case, then PT would be A Tier material or something. Cut him some slack.
D Tier characters aren't supposed to be in the Top 8 at all, I thought. That's why there aren't ever any Bowser players, Zelda players, or Ike players there, heh...
zeldspazz
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,432
infomon
Smash Scientist
If I make it to this, I'll MM you both
to prove why Sonic is above both your chars
the loser will be tied up and forced to watch repeated showings of Twilight without food or water for a whole week.
oh god I hope I lose
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
I have a problem with PT because he's obviously in the wrong place. I won't have a problem with PT once he goes back where he belongs and people get over the Reflex hype. Once that's fixed I'll move on to the issue of Lucas being above Ness for whatever bizarre, unknown reason. But I already got educating people Ike on my plate so I don't facepalm as much during match-up discussions and I don't have the time for three issues at once. Go figure.
Which is why at least Bowser and Ike have wins as well.....oh wait you just they weren't suppose to be able to do that. Oh snap thats a problem ain't it?
Oh God, that's twisted man. :[
I hope you lose too. :D
But yeah, Yoshi representing time gogogogo.
Actually, the only time I've faced a decent Sonic was against the owner of Pownz, who I beat.
I guess I'll money match you. Bo3? $2-3 dollars sounds good?
You see, the issue here is that until other low tier characters start to prove themselves, they'll continue to be low tier. Nobody cares what a bunch of mid-level players are doing with their characters. They're not the ones that affect the tier list. It's what the best players do with those characters that count.
Bowser, Zelda, and Ike players don't have wins where it counts. I'd like to see any of them beat Ultimate Razer, Tyrant, ADHD, HugS, Lee Martin, SK92, DEHF, Kismet, or BigLou in a game, much less a set.
infomon
Smash Scientist
Sure. I'm not sure I'll be making it on sat. but I'll deffo try now!
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Naw, he he's a poke hatah. He dun like lucarios either lolol.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 11,841
Oh yeah that's the way to do it!
beat SCRUBs who HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO PLAY ON A COMPETITIVE level.
i don't think you know how ******** that sounds
kingcobra9
Smash Ace
you could just make a tournament vs. computers and name all the computers as people
SuSa
Banned via Administration
You didn't get the failed joke. Read a bit after the post you quoted.
Fine i'll tell Ally to win a tournament with his C.Falcon. Will that make captain falcon a better character than ike, zelda, or bowser. NO. Just because YOU proved someone good can win with PT, doesn't mean he is a better CHARACTER then the said characters. Your just proving you can win with him. If someone like SK92, switched mains and started to play Zelda, and won with her does that mean "OMG zelda is so good she is top of C tier material."????
Wtfwasthat
Smash Journeyman
I think luigi should have moved up maybe a spot or two
Jigglypuff =(
Bravo Wario
Mario i think should be above lucas
I think Sonic is fine, maybe a little lower
Just some thoughts
Jigglypuff =(
Bravo Wario
Mario i think should be above lucas
I think Sonic is fine, maybe a little lower
Just some thoughts
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
I beat Kismet in a set with Bowser :/
Also I've been using more Bowser recently and plan on representing him in tournament.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Tournament set? Or friendlies?
@quote Vex quoted: Most of the lower tier do not even lose that badly to most of the upper tier. 65-35 is typically the worst a match usually results in. You occasionally have ones worse than that, but not often (unless you get into the dead lower tier. ganon lol). Snake and Falco I know have pretty much 50-50;55-45; and 60-40 matches ups. A couple 65-35, but that is it. The only major strength the top tier have is being able to have even or slightly advantaged match-ups on the majority of the cast. Lower tier suffers from being disadvantaged by so many which prevents them from typically doing well in a tournament. If every match you play is disadvantaged you are bound to lose eventually (playing at same skill levels).
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Money Match at Genesis. 3-1
lmao, greatest idea ever
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Man, one side comment and I cause a multi-way flamewar while I'm busy with University Registration stuff. : /
1) I'm not a pokemon hater. I like Mewtwo, he's a secondary of mine in Melee. I've also seriously tried out Pikachu for Brawl.
2) I don't hate Lucario or PT. They are both interesting characters. However, I do have a problem with the Lucario's boards match-up discussion abilities, and PT's painfully obvious over hyping.
As for low tier characters proving themselves, here's the problem PT has not proved himself as a character in any way shape or form and yet got the second biggest jump last tier list.. Reflex winning a tournament against a bunch of people who were no threat to him =/= PT proving himself at all. It's Reflex being Reflex. As hard as this is to believe for some people: if somebody beats a bunch of people that are below their level with a lesser character, it doesn't mean anything. If Inui decided to take his Ike and win a tournament against a bunch of people who couldn't normally beat him or pose much of a challenge, you won't see me here claiming Ike needs to jump up 5 spots.
1) I'm not a pokemon hater. I like Mewtwo, he's a secondary of mine in Melee. I've also seriously tried out Pikachu for Brawl.
2) I don't hate Lucario or PT. They are both interesting characters. However, I do have a problem with the Lucario's boards match-up discussion abilities, and PT's painfully obvious over hyping.
As for low tier characters proving themselves, here's the problem PT has not proved himself as a character in any way shape or form and yet got the second biggest jump last tier list.. Reflex winning a tournament against a bunch of people who were no threat to him =/= PT proving himself at all. It's Reflex being Reflex. As hard as this is to believe for some people: if somebody beats a bunch of people that are below their level with a lesser character, it doesn't mean anything. If Inui decided to take his Ike and win a tournament against a bunch of people who couldn't normally beat him or pose much of a challenge, you won't see me here claiming Ike needs to jump up 5 spots.
Palpi
Smash Hero
---^ is exactly what happened at every Ike winning a tournament. The numbers aren't false. Ike should never win a tournament unless it is low tier or everyone else is worse than that Ike player.
Ike doesn't deserve to move up (if that is what you are trying to prove, i dunno i just hopped in) because he hasn't repped in national tournaments at all. That is fine though because he is a below average character and he shouldn't.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
He should be in PT's current spot, as thats where he would be without PT's overhyping.
Basically: Everyone that was above him in the 2nd tier list was correct, nobody who wasn't Sonic should have risen above him, or should ever rise above him, unless something amazing happens for the actual character (like "lol hi, we have a 0-death on half the cast now" not "lol hi I beat a bunch of people that I always win against but this time I used a weaker character".). Like wise, Ike shouldn't be above that spot unless something amazing happens to him, or a huge weakness is found in a character right above him. (Like lets say theoretically a method was found so that the moment Zelda was off stage, you could force her into free fall through some weird glitch. That would drop her below Ike)
And Kirk won his tournament against people he played regularly, and had placed top 8 against consistently for a while. He was basically 8th, 8th, 8th, 4th, 1st, or something like that. His number finally came up to win, Ike didn't jump up a ridicules amount as it should be. I don't remember anything about San's win.
Basically: Everyone that was above him in the 2nd tier list was correct, nobody who wasn't Sonic should have risen above him, or should ever rise above him, unless something amazing happens for the actual character (like "lol hi, we have a 0-death on half the cast now" not "lol hi I beat a bunch of people that I always win against but this time I used a weaker character".). Like wise, Ike shouldn't be above that spot unless something amazing happens to him, or a huge weakness is found in a character right above him. (Like lets say theoretically a method was found so that the moment Zelda was off stage, you could force her into free fall through some weird glitch. That would drop her below Ike)
And Kirk won his tournament against people he played regularly, and had placed top 8 against consistently for a while. He was basically 8th, 8th, 8th, 4th, 1st, or something like that. His number finally came up to win, Ike didn't jump up a ridicules amount as it should be. I don't remember anything about San's win.
-PTs matchups are Better than Ikes.
-PT has the ability to switch and capitalise on a pokemon that does better in said matchups
-PT has some amazing ATs both for tactical (zero-switch) and for kills (hydroplane)
-PTs learning curve > Ike's learning curve. People are turned off by the absurd amount of knowledge that follows with playing him at a high level.
Reflex may be amazing as he is, but these facts still stand. See a PT main such as Toby (Tcranter), PokemonMasterIRL, Typh or Steeler and you'll see that its not just Reflex repping PT right.
-PT has the ability to switch and capitalise on a pokemon that does better in said matchups
-PT has some amazing ATs both for tactical (zero-switch) and for kills (hydroplane)
-PTs learning curve > Ike's learning curve. People are turned off by the absurd amount of knowledge that follows with playing him at a high level.
Reflex may be amazing as he is, but these facts still stand. See a PT main such as Toby (Tcranter), PokemonMasterIRL, Typh or Steeler and you'll see that its not just Reflex repping PT right.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Ivysaur?
until they lose a stock, and who in the hell lets you switch? you need to knock them off the stage in order to switch safely, usually.
zero switch requires a moving platform.
hydroplaning is fun
I agree, and its really sad.
Then why not assume their high level play?
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
Just saying's all...Steeler is amazing.
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