what can ICs do to pressure ike?
ice blocks? jab
If you jab the first one, the second one hits you unless they are so9 close that the jab hits both of them.
So Ike is going to just Sh Fair? in spite of the high amount of lag assosciated with the move startup and end time even with IASA frames?
I dont believe side B would be very useful.
Ice block and blizzard to be sure
Who grabs at a neutral positioned opponent? you're making it act as if the IC's have to constantly approach Ike when this is not true. The main issue Ike has is the fac tthat his greatest spacing moves, including Fair, ahve a high amount of start up and cool down time. the IC's cannot punish with a grab, but they certainly have the tools to deal with it.
shield and punish? fair has too much push back, and nair ACs into jabs before they can punish.
Can I ask who in their right mind would shield a Fair or a Nair from Ike?
Those moves have a high knockback s the shield stun is too great to punish Ike afterwards.
Both players start out the match. The IC's have little need to approach. They fire off de-synch ice blocks and blizzards, Ike cant simlpy jab them away. if he continues jabbing, the blizzard will hit him.
Sh Fair means he'll have to deal with the incoming ice block.
The ability of de-synching means tons for the IC's in this matchup because Ike cannot simlpy jab or SH Fair as you say.
im pretty sure ike out ranges all (or most) of teh ICs ground moves with jabs.
but why would anyone want to get into a jabbing match with Ike?
by that logic, every character who has less range than ike should have a hard time with him, which is not true.
The IC's hve projectiles plus their ability to desynch means they can approach with blizzard. Ike can Sh Fair all he wants because the IC's maintain their options. Ike is forced to either Jab, or SH Fair. He wont SH Nair because by then., the IC's can blizzard him.
So what then? keep retreating backwards?
and with jab cancels and followups, i could see ike seperating the two quite easily. which then like I said sets up for nana f smashes.
Actually thats hardly true. The fact that you are sayig Ike's JAB is useful in de-synching them is flawed. Simply because they have no need to get that close to Ike in the first place. The Ice Climbers are not characters who are reliant upon their grabs. blizzar,d ice blocks are ver yuseful in dealing with Ike, because the slow start up on Fair means the ice block is a great annoying, while Blizzard deals withboth jab and Nair.
They can easily approach with de-synched blizzards and ice blocks and Ike would have issues dealing with the pressure. He lacks afast high range move like Mk and Marth, and he also lacks the mobility and speed of a character like Wario.
Im not an ike main, why do I have to correct misconceptions about the intracacies on the character.
oh, so because you are not an Ike main, it means, you can criticize others for not knowing the character, but then not exlani as to why they are wrong?
Thats the EXACT same as saying "you're wrong because I said so".
Which simply is faulty.
so the fact that I make fun of people after nintendude corrects said people, im a bad guy?
Did I say you were a bad guy for it?
No
I said that it HURTS your statements, because then its merely Ad hominem.
Is this really necessary kid?
i do what i can but im pretty sure that nintendude just stated that correcting misconceptions about ike, is his job.
there is no such thing as " the main's job."
Tell me, if someone says, Ike's Fair has low range.
Do point out the difference if an ike main and a non Ike main said "Ike's Fair is the equivalent of 10 blocks, which is larger than any other aerial (outside of tethers) in the game."
What would be the difference if I, a sonic main, and adumbrodeus, a marth main both said
"Sonic has the highest movement speed in the game, crossing FD in 57 frames."
Argumentum ad hominem is not something you should be using in any argument.
i mean when you have a character that can death you from a grab at any point in time, I refuse to believe that they lose more than slightly, to anybody.
The IC's have the SMALLEST grab range in the game.
So let's take away everything they have, blizzard, ice blocks, leave them with ONLY the death grab, would they lose only slightly to a character like MK or Marth? no.]
They would do HORRID!
it is because of EVERYTHING else tha tthe IC's can perform so well.
The blizzards, de-synching, ice blocks, etc etc.
It not the grab the defines the matchup, it is EVERYTHING else.
im not here to explain the ike ICs matchup in detail, because honestly, i cant, I just know what Ike is capable of and that his abilitys play to the weaknesses of the ice climbers
you MUST know the matchup in detail, so that an accurate argument can be provided.
I just explained why Fair and jab are faulty, the IC's have ways around them and can deal with it. How does Ike answer the IC's options? how does he answer de-synched blizzards and ice blocks? He has trouble doing so. What happens if he is up close? He has issues, because if they stay just outside of his jab range, they can hit him with many things and Ike would have an issue answering them. Bair's hitbox is very awkward and would allow him to deal with the IC's answers effectively.
Fair is only useful so much as it is properly spaced, and it cannot deal with consecutive iceblocks unless they are a certain difference from each other.
Same with jab.
I actually think the IC's have the advantage, not because of their death grab, but because their answers to Ike are more fefective than Ike's answers to them.
Hmm... speaking of hype, I wish Lucario was more hyped. I think he has a decent amount of potential but most people basically said "screw it" when Azen quit.
BTW, if I'd have used 100 it would be the same result. The ZSS/Lucario tourneys both had 100 people in them.
