The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Shiroi]

Toon Link.. You reached B tier..
I'm happy to have you as a main. XD

 

[Jim Morrison]

sonic beats mk

Lol, this is actually very true.

 

[Firestormzero0]

lol soon IC will be S tier. i cant wait! lol. but in a way i dont want them to be cuz then i would not feel very original anymore...

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach beats Meta knight

 

[Red Arremer]

MK is good, but not that good. you guys just need to step it up. Thats a sonic pun. It's funny because sonic is horrible.

Hah, that made me chuckle.

 

[Frown]

Yoshi beats Metaknight. Here's why:

Yoshi has a chaingrab. Does Metaknight have a chaingrab? NO!

Yoshi has fast aerial speed. Does Metaknight have high aerial speed? NO!

Yoshi is heavy. Is Metanight heavy? NO!

Yoshi has a good second jump. Does Metaknight have a high second jump? NO!

That's why Yoshi beats Metaknight.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yoshi has a good second jump. Does Metaknight have a high second jump? NO!

One could even argue that Yoshi now has multiple jumps, too, heh.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yoshi beats Metaknight. Here's why:

Yoshi has a chaingrab. Does Metaknight have a chaingrab? NO!

Yoshi has fast aerial speed. Does Metaknight have high aerial speed? NO!

Yoshi is heavy. Is Metanight heavy? NO!

Yoshi has a good second jump. Does Metaknight have a high second jump? NO!

That's why Yoshi beats Metaknight.

Best logic I have seen in this thread.

Yoshi>Meta.

 

[.Marik]

Lol Frown.

10nowonlyifitweretrue's.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

About Lucario:

Say what you want about him, but he (and ZSS, too) is one of seven characters to win a tourney with over 90 people this year on their own (with no secondary). Some high and top tier characters can't claim that (including Falco, Wario).

The 90 person tourney argument is only valid if good players are abundant in said tourney. I could get a 90 man tourney if I advertised hard enough at our university, then win with Jigglypuff. So jiggs is toptier? (please?)

You could also have a tourney with only 16 entrants, but if they are all national level players, it actually matters, because the outcome wasn't predecided. take a look at the 81 man tourney that reflex won with PT. How many other players legitimatley had a shot of beating him? Like 2 or 3? (not bashing on reflex, just saying there wasn't many other players near his level there)

90 people/=/ 90 good people. It could very well be one good player and a bunch of scrubs.

 

[Nefarious B]

The 90 person tourney argument is only valid if good players are abundant in said tourney. I could get a 90 man tourney if I advertised hard enough at our university, then win with Jigglypuff. So jiggs is toptier? (please?)

You could also have a tourney with only 16 entrants, but if they are all national level players, it actually matters, because the outcome wasn't predecided. take a look at the 81 man tourney that reflex won with PT. How many other players legitimatley had a shot of beating him? Like 2 or 3? (not bashing on reflex, just saying there wasn't many other players near his level there)

90 people/=/ 90 good people. It could very well be one good player and a bunch of scrubs.

K dude maybe in theorycraft land, but the thing is, the reason why pros show up to tournies is to make money and for more competition. As in, a big tournie will just naturally have more good players cause all the big players want that phat lewt.

And if you can get a 90 man tournie of scrubs together, why the hell haven't you? Business mind, common now.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

K dude maybe in theorycraft land, but the thing is, the reason why pros show up to tournies is to make money and for more competition. As in, a big tournie will just naturally have more good players cause all the big players want that phat lewt.

And if you can get a 90 man tournie of scrubs together, why the hell haven't you? Business mind, common now.

Because they hate the like 5 competitive players in NM from doing this 3 times already (we had like a 75 man tourney before at our university)

And it isn't theroycraft. Larger reigons get more turnout inherently. Why would you travel OOS to a tourney with a 5 dollar buy in? ALA, reflexes PT tourney. Big players are attracted to bug tourneys when they are relevant tourneys, with adveritsing and the like, because they don't know how many people are going to show up to some random tourney. Yes, if peole knew there would be 80 people at that tourney, more big people woluld have shown up. But did they? Tell me how many big names were there.

It's not theroycraft.

EDIT: I saw 6 high level players in the top 8. 6 out of 81 is hardly legitimate, since it was garunteed that one of them would win. How is it competitive when the top is garunteed to be such a limited number?

 

[smashkng]

The only character anyone should main is Metaknight.

Wario doesn't need secondary like MK. All of matchups are good enough to not need a secondary. His grab release problems aren't a problem cause he can avoid grabs anyway.

 

[Yonder]

Wario doesn't need secondary like MK. All of matchups are good enough to not need a secondary. His grab release problems aren't a problem cause he can avoid grabs anyway.

Snake can easily manage with no secondary too.

 

[etecoon]

snake should have a secondary for olimar, but realistically he doesn't need one because like no one plays olimar

kind of depends on your region though

 

[.Marik]

Wario doesn't need secondary like MK. All of matchups are good enough to not need a secondary. His grab release problems aren't a problem cause he can avoid grabs anyway.

Snake can easily manage with no secondary too.

Kind of obvious, right guys?

 

[smashkng]

like no one plays olimar

Probably cause don't enjoy being so light and having a sucky recovery at the same time. I can't play him, it's annoying to look all the time which Pikmin I'm using.

 

[Snail]

Oli vs Snake is only 60/40 Oli at best. I don't think picking a secondary for a 60/40 matchup is necessary :/

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Olimar vs Snake is in Snake's favour, guys. It's so freaking obvious. Snake can dthrow chain him from 0 to death, gimp the hell out of him with nades onstage + ledgehog and kills him at like 90%. Olimar can't even outcamp Snake cuz Snake just has to use usmash, ftilt, nades + ducking to avoid all pikmin. If Oli throws a pikmin Snake can just mortar slide through it - dash attack kills the pikmin and usmash hits oli in his lag. Snake can CP oli to wherever he wants. Dabuz loses to fatal. BlackWaltz loses to Ally. Pyronic star loses to Candy.

Snake ***** Oli.

But let's keep on theorycrafting and pretend that Oli beats Snake or that Snake has bad match-ups (protip: Snake has no bad match-ups).

 

[etecoon]

But let's keep on theorycrafting and pretend that Oli beats Snake or that Snake has bad match-ups (protip: Snake has no bad match-ups).

Most of that post was theorycraft -_-

and yeah, snake has no ***** matchups, still disadvantaged ones though(MK and DDD as nearly unanimous slight losses, olimar seems like most people think it's oli's favor but a few disagree...)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Most of that post was theorycraft -_-

Backed up with facts.

and yeah, snake has no ***** matchups, still disadvantaged ones though.

Snake has no disadvantaged match-ups.

 

[etecoon]

Backed up with facts.

what facts? two examples =/= concrete empirical evidence, there's just as many examples of olimar's beating snake's(rich brown is a great example)

Snake has no disadvantaged match-ups.

meta knight says hi

 

[ShadowLink84]

people toss the word theory craft around way too ****ing much.
Why?

Science=theory
Law of gravity does not explain the Earth's orbit.
The Theory of Gravity does.

What you are defining as theorycraft can be called simple bull****.
Seriously people, stop saying theory craft, if its bull****, call it as such.

in THEORY the peregrine falcon can fly over 200 mph, that is within the realms of possibility. It is theory, but does have support.


Now gheb, while Snake has his Dthrow chain, by no means does this change the fact that olimar is difficult to grab.
Otherwise, IC's=best character in the game?

Olimar has the ability to maintain his distance from snake.
yeah Snake has his Ftilt, but what is he going to hit? Olimar will constantly play keep away, an you cannot punish the grab with Ftilt. So I doubt it will see tons of use.
Nades on the other hand, I definitely see being used alot, 1 frame move, blows up when Olimar does his throws on anything that involves slamming Snake on the ground. Olimar dying extremely early.

I dont see Snake chaining his Dthrows on Olimar often cause of Olimars range, and I certainly am not seeing Snake hitting Olimar with a DACUS after Olimarr side B's, but everything else, certainly.

 

[etecoon]

the snake dthrow thing is super theory craft anyway, yeah, snake can zero to death olimar with dthrow except for how it never actually happens that way, if you really want to go there snake should be death grabbing half the cast, why does it never happen?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Typically most characters can roll away fast enough to avoid the Dthrow chain. I hear Olimar's roll is too slow or too short and so Snake can Dthrow him again.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Wario doesn't need secondary like MK. All of matchups are good enough to not need a secondary. His grab release problems aren't a problem cause he can avoid grabs anyway.

Peach says hi

 

[llamapaste]

Does anyone else think that in the next tier list Jiggs can become the worst character? Jigg's tourney results are terrible and she seems to have very few good moves, although i'm not an expert on the low regarded character. It just seems like there's a character that can do everything 10 times better in even Jigg's best areas. Kirby and Metaknight outclass Jiggs in the extremely floaty lightweight family. Jiggs can't really approach, dies way too early, and just is not deserving of a roster spot in Brawl and is a really boring character.

 

[Suspect]

K dude maybe in theorycraft land, but the thing is, the reason why pros show up to tournies is to make money

brawl is a business

 

[demonictoonlink]

NO! Jiggz is bad. That's it. She can still recover like hell, plank, space, kill, break shields, grab, ****. She has plenty making of a good character. She lacks any "brokeness" that characters need to succeed, but she isn't Ganon bad... If it wasn't for her weight, she'd be mid-tier easy.

 

[Spelt]

NO! Jiggz is bad. That's it. She can still recover like hell, plank, space, kill, break shields, grab, ****. She has plenty making of a good character. She lacks any "brokeness" that characters need to succeed, but she isn't Ganon bad... If it wasn't for her weight, she'd be mid-tier easy.

I doubt it. :/
Her ground game sucks hard as well.
and her only viable kills moves are fair, utilt, and dash attack.
her smash attacks are painfully slow so use those with caution.

 

[Noobicidal]

If it wasn't for her non-existent ground game, mediocre Rest setups, poor range, laughable priority, and pathetic moves such as dtilt and sing, she'd be mid-tier easy.

Fixed. She's bad, but not Ganon-bad.

Edit: Ninja'd with less negativity.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Does anyone else think that in the next tier list Jiggs can become the worst character? Jigg's tourney results are terrible and she seems to have very few good moves, although i'm not an expert on the low regarded character. It just seems like there's a character that can do everything 10 times better in even Jigg's best areas. Kirby and Metaknight outclass Jiggs in the extremely floaty lightweight family. Jiggs can't really approach, dies way too early, and just is not deserving of a roster spot in Brawl and is a really boring character.

Nobody is actually doing anything with jiggz at this moment to say something that. And when times get rough, people switch characters, so the true power of a character (wether it would be good or bad) would never be found out.

This is another reason why I refuse to counterpick characters. With Peach I tend to learn every match up to the fulliest and learn ways to win. I put all my focus on that. And yes it will take some time. and might hold me back from placing high in tournaments as if I was to use someone like Meta knight. But this way I will finally learn what I can do, the straight truth. To a point I won't need to counterpick at all and beat any person/character, no matter how gay they play. This is how I go on about improving Peach's metagame.

But I don't think jiggz would be the worst. Jiggz can somewhat be a pain to deal with.

 

[Nestec]

This is another reason why I refuse to counterpick characters. With Peach I tend to learn every match up to the fulliest and learn ways to win. I put all my focus on that. And yes it will take some time. and might hold me back from placing high in tournaments as if I was to use someone like Meta knight. But this way I will finally learn what I can do, the straight truth. To a point I won't need to counterpick at all and beat any person/character, no matter how gay they play. This is how I go on about improving Peach's metagame.

::applaud::

That's a pretty dedicated way to play the game, and quite frankly, I approve. Of course, you're slightly minimizing your chances of victory, but like you said, that's how you will improve. Rather than just "running away from the problem" and picking a secondary.

However, for the people who truly play to win, no matter what the method, using secondaries is certainly the way to go.

Jigglypuff

She is faaaaar too underplayed to be accurately judged.

Yeah, she sucks MAJOR nuts, but I'd say she is better than Samus. If she could be represented better, I'd say she would deserve to be higher than Link.

 

[llamapaste]

Samus has good projectiles, something that Jiggs doesn't have. And Samus was never really good in the Smash series it seemed, even in Melee. Edit: she couldn't win consistently in Melee.

 

[Spelt]

jigglypuff CAN kill though.
at least, easier than samus.
and jigglypuff can (kind of) air camp.

 

[Clai]

Does anyone else think that in the next tier list Jiggs can become the worst character? Jigg's tourney results are terrible and she seems to have very few good moves, although i'm not an expert on the low regarded character. It just seems like there's a character that can do everything 10 times better in even Jigg's best areas. Kirby and Metaknight outclass Jiggs in the extremely floaty lightweight family. Jiggs can't really approach, dies way too early, and just is not deserving of a roster spot in Brawl and is a really boring character.

If this actually happened, I would probably be the happiest Brawler anyone has ever seen. Jigglypuff really needs to GTFO of Brawl and go back to that other Smash game where Jigglypuff actually wins in it.

Then again, the same thing can be said for Ganondorf, too, but Brawl at least compensated for making Ganon suck by giving him some of the manliest moves in the game. Jigglypuff... can really leave the game now. Now for the hard part- getting Ganon and Falcon to be better than Jigglypuff... this might be something I can't possibly do alone. I bet there will be others perfectly willing to support my cause, though.

 

[Dark.Pch]

::applaud::

That's a pretty dedicated way to play the game, and quite frankly, I approve. Of course, you're slightly minimizing your chances of victory, but like you said, that's how you will improve. Rather than just "running away from the problem" and picking a secondary.

However, for the people who truly play to win, no matter what the method, using secondaries is certainly the way to go.



She is faaaaar too underplayed to be accurately judged.

Yeah, she sucks MAJOR nuts, but I'd say she is better than Samus. If she could be represented better, I'd say she would deserve to be higher than Link.

I have told many people this; I don't care for winning a tournament right now, if I really wanted to, I take the easier road and pick a high tier. No one would really know how a characters against another cause they just switch in tournament matches.

Real talk, people really care about that money, and I dare anyone to deny that, if you do, you are bias and just don't wanna admit it. This is competitive gaming. What you think people will care about more, advances the growth of characters and metagame, or winning cash no matter what? With me all I go for as of now is top ten. I could get top ten then quit the tourny, even if I was in winners. My focus is breaking match ups and even finding stuff out that people would not noticed cause they would go on about how Peach can't do this and that and the match up is so gay to a point no one can do anything about it.

Example- The Peach players were going on how Peach could not beat meta if he plays gay as hell. And they been losing to this gay play. even to a point one peach got fed up and decided to use snake on Metas now. And I been telling them you guys let this character get to you so much and it is seriously not that big of a deal. I have been playing metas that spam and play gay as hell for a long time. I have lost to them many of times in so many ways. But I have said "it's my damm fault, i should step my game up and not let this crap happen again" So I look through every inch on why I lost to this spamm and what I can do about it.. And now meta does not bother me at all and see him as a chump. and have fun fighting him, win or lose. I been saying this for a while.

Counterpicking takes too much of my time when I could just learn to break match ups with Peach. I also learned a way from NJ tournament I had on saturday how to break of meta's torando easy. I was doing this alot. And lead to me counter attack meta alot. Now if I was to be afraid of meta and cry about him, I would have never learned all this and how to deal with him. Thats why I tell them to stop going about Peach vs Meta like this. It won't get you anywhere. But w/e My Peach gives metas a hard azz time to a point I can win so more power to me.

Once I break all these match ups, then I'll aim for first place in any size tournament. I don't need to worry about that now, cause when I finally start going for first, hell will break lose. One step at a time.

 

[Kinzer]

MK is good, but not that good. you guys just need to step it up. Thats a sonic pun. It's funny because sonic is horrible.

Hmm...?

What does that make out of everybody who is below Sonic on the tier list?

Bias is fun.

Wario doesn't need secondary like MK. All of matchups are good enough to not need a secondary. His grab release problems aren't a problem cause he can avoid grabs anyway.

Snake can easily manage with no secondary too.

...Your sarcasm detectors are broken, fellas.

 

[Underload]

Uhh, he's right. Snake can easily manage with no secondary too.

His worst matchups (according to the Snake boards) are Olimar, ROB, Metaknight, and a few 50:50s to sprinkle on top.

I've been doing fine with no secondary.

 

[Nestec]

@ Dark.Pch

If I could actually get to tournaments, I would be the same way with Ness.
X_x