The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[phi1ny3]

His recovery I guess, but his ability to kill kinda put me off Lucario. His Fsmash is too laggy IMO, although he does have a killing projectile.

Also with regards to Toon Link, he shouldn't really move down the tier list, most likely up, he has alot of potential and tricks that aren't really being incorporated in his overall playstyle, yet.

Chips is really pushing Toon Links capabilities. (I don't really see Santi play anymore)

He placed well in Genesis, the highest placing non-high tiered character?

Winners' bracket
Defeated MikeHaze
Defeated Sean
Defeated Hylian
Lost to Ally

Losers' bracket
Defeated Co18
Lost to lain

1. Ally - Snake
2. M2K - Meta Knight
3. Tyrant - Meta Knight
4. Dojo - Meta Knight
5. ADHD - Diddy Kong
6. DEHF - Falco
7. Fiction - Wario
8. SK92 - Falco
9. Judge - Meta Knight
9. Lain - Ice Climbers/King Dedede
9. Ultimate Razer - Snake
9. UTD Zach - Game & Watch
13. Bardull - Marth
13. Havok - Meta Knight/Marth
13. Zex - Marth/Meta Knight
13. Chip - Toon Link

Lol Jem (another WA player) would have us believe otherwise.

Also on the lucario issue:
-DT is really situational, like really, really icky
-Recovering is not the issue, recovery is (if they know how to abuse it's startup lag, especially MK, it's really, really awful to see a lucario getting slapped by dair over-and-over-and-over again), however if the lucario knows how to use all of his tools at his disposal correctly, it's a very small weakness.
-If anything, his weakness is more of his startup speed, which although often gets overlooked by most of his moveset's low endlag and lingering frames, startup speed really hurts him in many MU's where jab/utilt/grab are his fastest retaliations against a better air game.
-I say he might move one up, but he's prolly going to stay around where he is now, but I see TL, ZSS moving up though.

 

[Spelt]

I only count as half a coloradian (?) though because i don't know wtf i'm talking about half the time.

 

[choknater]

chip eh? i should watch more videos. that is a great bracket performance

 

[Tarmogoyf]

20mm accepted. MK vs TL.

Cool. When is the next tourney that CO is hosting that is big enough to come down to? NM probably won't be holding one for quite a bit, seeing as we just had one.

I agree, but it can't and won't be far - his gigantic wall of stats isn't going to be easy to topple. He's just good. Doesn't matter if he's predictable if there's no way to stop it.

You could try SDI and running away? he can't land kill moves if your onnonent is playing campy. You have to be really good at reading to get a kill, or maybe if your opponent sucks at teching the Dthrow (his best move IMO)

 

[Spelt]

I think the same thing applies to meta knight.
though i doubt he'll go down as far.

 

[Nestec]

Okay, I was messing around with some characters last night, and I need to ask this question...

What's the deal with Pikachu? Isn't he like, INSANELY good or something? CGs, good kill power, awesome recovery, very-spammable moves, and what ZERO weaknesses?

Basically, my question is, what are Pikachu's weaknesses that are preventing him from being higher up? Because from playing around with him, he's starting to seem better than Marth and GaW to me.

 

[SuSa]

Play Pikachu vs Ness/Lucas/G&W/Marth and find out.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Play Pikachu vs Ness/Lucas/G&W/Marth and find out.

???
I always thought pikachu had the tools to deal with Ness and Lucas effectively.

 

[SuSa]

???
I always thought pikachu had the tools to deal with Ness and Lucas effectively.

Ness Fair > Pika's moveset
Ness Down-B > Thunder/Jolt

Lucas is less of a case, but the down-B applies.

No thunder low/mid % ko's (or high %'s for that matter) and minimal jolt camping. Being outranged by Ness doesn't help. Lucas can outrange but it is harder.

Just from my experiences.
/used to main one of the three (I've mained almost everyone at some point xD)

 

[Frown]

Is it just me or are Pikachu's aerials pretty bad? I'm not saying they all suck, but none of them are... great. Maybe nair but... yeah.

 

[Spelt]

lucas' psi magnet is definitely one of the most unpunishable projectile counter/absorbers because of the ability to cancel it with a jump/roll dodge.

So if any pikachus are trying to bait a lucas into pulling it out to score a free hit they're in for a surprise.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Is it just me or are Pikachu's aerials pretty bad? I'm not saying they all suck, but none of them are... great. Maybe nair but... yeah.

Fair is great for starting combos, and it has enough range to not get shieldgrabbed if spaced right. Uair is good for juggling. Bair, well, it has weird priority, and isn't too bad if it's fullhopped (not really good though) Dair has a very deceptive hitbox, has great priority, and autocancels if buffered out of a shorthop. His aerials aren't the probem, it's lack of range/weight.

 

[mountain_tiger]

IIRC, they soft counter him. Mostly because of them absorbing thunder and thunderjolts. But you don't see too many Nesses and Lucases at tourneys so...

 

[Nestec]

I suppose I can understand his MU versus Marth and GaW holding him back, but I doubt Ness/Lucas matters much.

And I just looked at the Pikachu guide; I see Dsmash isn't as amazing of a killer as I thought.

Is it just me or are Pikachu's aerials pretty bad? I'm not saying they all suck, but none of them are... great. Maybe nair but... yeah.

Bair and Dair are kinda bleh, but Nair/Uair/Fair are pretty major parts of Pika's airgame. I think. :/

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot about the pwnage of QAC.

 

[Spelt]

pikachus don't need dsmash for kills.
they've already got usmash and thunder for star KOs.

I use autocanceled dairs a lot, they have good priority.

And QAC isn't that great. it expands pikachus hurtbox like no other:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWrbOTFYEvs

 

[choknater]

pikachu doesnt really have a lot of weaknesses

it's just the characters better than him have LESS weaknesses



LOL

 

[Spelt]

thus why he's top tier.

 

[demonictoonlink]

LOL funny fight was funny.
This useless comment was useless...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

About Lucario:

Say what you want about him, but he (and ZSS, too) is one of seven characters to win a tourney with over 90 people this year on their own (with no secondary). Some high and top tier characters can't claim that (including Falco, Wario).

 

[Flayl]

WHAT? Falco and Wario can totally claim that, lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Not according to Ankoku's thread, they can't.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ As much as I don't like to get off topic, I just have to complement SFP avatar. C. Viper FTW!!! =3 ☆

☆ Ahem, contnue with the current discussion. ^_^; ☆

 

[Flayl]

Not according to Ankoku's thread, they can't.

Search for Fiction and DEHF.

It's either DEHF or SK92.

TOURNAMENT: Quizno's VIII
LINK: http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=4613
DATE: February 15th, 2009
LOCALE: Pacific West
ENTRANTS: 84
ENTRY: $5.00
1 Fiction (Wario)
2 DEHF (Falco)
3 Havok (Meta Knight/Marth)
4 MogX (Kirby)
5 Camaman (Wolf)
5 TKD (Meta Knight)
7 Gishnak (Falco/Mr. Game & Watch)
7 Tyrant (Meta Knight/Snake)

Yeah good job using 90 for your argument. And for wasting my time.

 

[Nitrix]

Is it just me or are Pikachu's aerials pretty bad? I'm not saying they all suck, but none of them are... great. Maybe nair but... yeah.

N-Air is good for KO's when fresh. It can also be used out of shield.

F-Air autocancels and can easily combo into an U-Tilt which can lead to more aerials.

The D-Air and B-Air aren't as good, but Pika's N-Air and especially his F-Air are both very useful aerials.

 

[Mota]

Funny when Mario capes Pikas thunder as it's coming down. =D

 

[Spelt]

all of pikachu's aerials can be autocanceled out of a short hop, except bair.

 

[da K.I.D.]

pikachu cna also mix up whether he auto cancles the dair or gets teh landing "splash" hitbox.

for the record, ive been saying pikachu was top tier since the beginning of this year

 

[Zajice]

I second the "Pikachu for top tier" notion.


It's true for every character I play. They always end up high tier.



Edit:
inb4 "Main my character plz."

 

[Spelt]

Main my character plz.

 

[Frown]

The only character anyone should main is Metaknight.

 

[Spelt]

The only character anyone should ban is Metaknight.

fixed... :D

 

[demonictoonlink]

But I like MK...
Ban IC Zero to deaths and Snake along with MK or none at all.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its funny cause its true!!

but yea, everyone should be playing MK at this point if they arent going to ban him. Ive already started the transition myself

 

[Spelt]

STOP STALKING ME DTL


& how about let's not turn SSBB into Super Smash Meta Knights....

 

[demonictoonlink]

I'm not stalking you...I was arguing with Goyf in here without you just fine...

 

[Spelt]

I see how it is....

 

[demonictoonlink]

Don't get me wrong; I love you and would love to stalk you. I just always wait for permission...So...you know...grant it?

 

[Spelt]

-grants-
you can pick up my address and school schedule at the door.

 

[<π]

MK is good, but not that good. you guys just need to step it up. Thats a sonic pun. It's funny because sonic is horrible.

 

[Spelt]

sonic beats mk