The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Milos]

noooooo i'm not saying that's the reason YOU main sonic. it was in one of your quotes regarding the majority of users on the Sonic boards haha.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Why exactly June 5th for the next tier list release? I can't help but feel that not much will change in that time period...then again, I suppose it doesn't really hurt anyone releasing frequentish tier lists

I'll be curious if Peach will move up although I wouldn't be surprised if she stays where she is

 

[Tenki]

Every half a year or so.

I think the reasoning behind it is that it'll make it so we don't have an outdated tier list for 9-12 months at a time.

Like, a few weeks after the first tier list, a bunch of metagame development happened, and it was pretty much obsolete by then.

A few days before this tier list, a bunch of metagame development happened, and some minds were changed just after it was released.

If it's more frequent, it'll more accurately represent the 'current metagame'.

Though it will never be as accurate as updating the list after every tournament.

..lol.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I really like Lucas' bair I'm not going to lie.

That move alone makes me prefer Lucas greatly.

That move never works out for me.
I never spike when I want it to spike.
Makes me eat kittens

Ness is wack. ever since 64.

****r ight, Link is better

Sonic is fast, no priority, I don't care, like Tenki said, were I to main sonic, it'd only be because he's like, soooooooo cool.

I main him since I grew up watching the cartoon. XD Stupid reason but there you go.

 

[Milos]

not a bad reason at all, as long as you get good with him anyway!

you're probably better than me anyway, I play brawl like twice a month, not that I hate it, I just don't want it to make me worse at melee haha

 

[Napilopez]

I main Sonic because I'm a fanboy. No other reason. I used marth and mario in melee, but I didn't even know I could shorthop, so i was noobscrubilation lol.


Also, I think people underestimate the power of what one can do with running speed. I say this for both Sonic and Falcon(to a lesser extent of course). I don't know if Falcon can, but Sonic can run in between Olimars grabs(I believe ShadowLink had said this once before). How many chars do you know that can do that? How many chars do you know that can run away from MKs Dsmash and dash dance pivot back in for the grab before MK can even input another Dsmash?

As for Ness Lucas being tied, I honestly think that is simply a result of the voting system rather than the opinions of the SBR. As I opinionated a while ago, the voting system would naturally lead to innacuracies in the lower tiers. Having a bunch of people put numeric values from 1-15 on 30+ characters could easily lead to this methinks. Lets say half the people rated Ness being a 5, half rated him being a 4. And they happened to rate the same thing for lucas. I can visualize them not paying terrible concern about scoring the two similarly, and I doubt they would have forseen the end result being that Ness is equal to Lucas, among other innacuracies.

 

[Tenki]

I believe it was stated that some people had Ness up to like, 7s, and some had him down to like, 3's.

So it wasn't that they all thought they were equal - it really did just turn out to average that way, lol.

 

[Lenus Altair]

As for Ness Lucas being tied, I honestly think that is simply a result of the voting system rather than the opinions of the SBR. As I opinionated a while ago, the voting system would naturally lead to innacuracies in the lower tiers. Having a bunch of people put numeric values from 1-15 on 30+ characters could easily lead to this methinks. Lets say half the people rated Ness being a 5, half rated him being a 4. And they happened to rate the same thing for lucas. I can visualize them not paying terrible concern about scoring the two similarly, and I doubt they would have forseen the end result being that Ness is equal to Lucas, among other innacuracies.

Agreed. goes along with what I said 2 or 3 pages back.

 

[DQP]

meta knight is at the top...again
my main, ganon, is at the bottom...again

 

[Red Arremer]

meta knight is at the top...again
my main, ganon, is at the bottom...again

Nothing new for you, then.

@Ness/Lucas:
Ah, I see. Well. Okay, then.

As said, democracy is bound to be flawed.

 

[Milos]

I'm thinking about it more and more, and though this can't be said for all characters, I do believe that the SBR was right in its decision to put ness and lucas as equal (even though it wasn't really a decision but a vote).

I think that with those two specifically, it is much more dependent on personal preference.

 

[Dokutayuu]

I believe it was stated that some people had Ness up to like, 7s, and some had him down to like, 3's.

So it wasn't that they all thought they were equal - it really did just turn out to average that way, lol.

Why not have a second vote between tied characters?

 

[ROOOOY!]

I really like how people only name priority as an issue Sonic has, which makes him suck apparently.

His aerial priority is actually better then a large portion of the cast, with high disjoints on 2 of them. His grounded 'priority' isn't as bad as people make out. He has practical invincibility frames on a number of moves, too. In fact, the only two attacks that have legitimately low priority are his Spindash and Spincharge (side/down B). Only BAD Sonic's use them to approach, that's not their main purpose. They're meant to be used as punishment.

It's...not like Sonic's priority, regardless of how good/bad it is, should be much of an issue. He's not meant to be a character that fights head to head with opponents anyway, and nobody can force him to. With cancellable approaches, and other options of being safe, he's not meant to be over aggro.

On top of all that, I can guarentee that a lot of people who bark on about priority have no idea how it works (not everybody, obviously.)

In conclusion, a good chunk of SWF needs to stop living in last April where these things were a problem and STFU.

=]

 

[Red Arremer]

In conclusion, a good chunk of SWF needs to stop living in last April where these things were a problem and STFU.

=]

Oh God, more Sonic talk. From yet another Sonic main.

v.v

 

[Chis]

Spadefox, do not make assumptions of ones character from who they main. That is an unhealthy way of thinking.

Thank you.

 

[Gindler]

Yoshi, silly little devil. He'll never win a big tournament but DOES have the right tools to win any matchup...except maybe kirby. I can't wait till June to see that he hasn't moved anywhere at all.



Also, wow DonkeyKong really dropped quite a bit. geez

 

[Red Arremer]

Spadefox, do not make assumptions of ones character from who they main. That is an unhealthy way of thinking.

Thank you.

No, but other people who main Sonic came to the conclusion that there is nothing more left to talk about. NOTHING. And that TWICE. And there really is nothing more to talk about Sonic.

 

[Dark Sonic]

In fact, the only two attacks that have legitimately low priority are his Spindash and Spincharge (side/down B)
=]

Couldn't side B be considered to have infinite priority since it has invincibility frames. I am only referring to the hop of course, but the game counts the SD hop and the actual SDR as different moves anyway (I think we should count every phase of his spins as different moves, because that's really what they function like right?)

 

[Chis]

No, but other people who main Sonic came to the conclusion that there is nothing more left to talk about. NOTHING. And that TWICE. And there really is nothing more to talk about Sonic.

No to what? I listen to everyone else's stuff about their mains and don't complain about it. It's going to be talked about again and again whether you like it or not.

 

[Milos]

but the hop is a different move from the dash, because it's activated by an additional input and has its own hitbox.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Dark Sonic, take this to the Sonic boards. But kinda, if you're doing an invincible spindash from a weird 45 degree angle like Corneria's fin or something, yeah. But ordinarily, it's just invincy frames right at the start of the hop, then the rest of it has meh priority.

It's the roll's priority that is bad, lol.

I don't know why I posted before lol. I'm not going to be taken seriously, such is the stigma of maining a character most people hate.

 

[Milos]

but the hop is a different move from the dash, because it's activated by an additional input and has its own hitbox.

this kid's a genius look at what HE has to say about this matter. it's a flawless victory.

I just don't see any holes in his argument.

what a G

 

[Red Arremer]

No to what? I listen to everyone else's stuff about their mains and don't complain about it. It's going to be talked about again and again whether you like it or not.

No to that I'm putting their choice of main onto their personality.

This thread has how many pages? Almost 120. Out of these 120 there are a lot of pages dedicated to Sonic and Sonic only. The rest is spam and/or people saying how the SBR sucks or "QQ my main so low" or "QQ my main so high" postings.

I haven't seen any talk lasting longer than 1 page except that one about Sonic and that one about Bowser, but Bowser was only being talked about because the Sonic mains started to talk about him (comparing his tier list placing to Sonic's).

The talk about Ness and Lucas being tied, which I tried to focus the discussion got how many responses? Like... 5 or 6. The talk about PT lasted 4 posts. This was on the page before and the last one right after Big Sonic Discussion #2 was done. Now it's Sonic. Again.

No other people except those from the Sonic boards come in here and ***** all over their character's placing. Not even the Yoshi mains, whom I've expected already - I've seen like, 3 or 4 posts, but other than that, nothing.
The Sonic talk must make at least 40% of the postings in this thread, regular visitors of this thread - including BRoomers - are fed up about how the Sonic mains bring this up again every page.
As much as you disagree with his placing, it won't change anything in this tierlist's look. Sonic is where he is.

Seriously, I like this thread. I would love to debate about character placements of ALL characters (except maybe Meta Knight and Snake), but hardly anything else is talked about except for Sonic (and spamz0rs).

Someone of the people still coming in here - send me a visitor message as soon as the Sonic talk has stopped, I don't want to see the same arguments YET again.

Thank you.

 

[Dark Sonic]

It's the roll's priority that is bad, lol.

I know that. I was just pointing out that "side B" doesn't have bad priority, since "side B" and "SDR" are technically different moves.

I say that because people around me hear about how Sonic's b moves have terrible priority...and then I tear through their smashes with the side B hop and they go "WTF, I thought that move was terrible?"

I for one try to keep the mechanics of Sonic's spins as separated as possible because I don't like contributing to those kinds of misconceptions. I really do use the acronyms when I'm talking about Sonic's moves. I write "Well, ASC (aerial down B) is good for baiting because you can shield cancel as you hit the ground if it misses or gets shielded, and if it hits it leads into Sonic's aerials" and stuff like that.

I read Tenki's thread about Sonic's side B and down B mechanics (and how they share the same stale moves list, but each phase change counts as a "hit" in stale moves), but don't you think we should be spreading that knowledge a little bit (especially when it comes to the different properties of each phase?)

 

[JesseMeza]

Oh God, more Sonic talk. From yet another Sonic main.

More Sonic talk? Sweet. *grabs popcorn*

I don't particpate, mind you, I just like to sit and watch. (Read, whatever)

 

[Tenki]

More Sonic talk? Sweet. *grabs popcorn*

No.

Couldn't side B be considered to have infinite priority since it has invincibility frames.

No.

Even if Sonic is invincible and performing an iSDR, moves that can clang with it will clang and force him to stop. If he's in the air (airdash, hop), then yes, it's pretty much transcendent priority then.

but don't you think we should be spreading that knowledge a little bit (especially when it comes to the different properties of each phase?)

no, because
TL;DR.

people don't read walls of text.

Too bad. They'll never understand the moves >_>;
but then, they don't need to, because they'll never fight a competent sonic main, mwahahaha.

10Sonic talks from a Sonic main.

Yoshi, silly little devil. He'll never win a big tournament but DOES have the right tools to win any matchup...except maybe kirby. I can't wait till June to see that he hasn't moved anywhere at all.

Yoshi talk from a Yoshi main.


gee, anyone notice a pattern?

people talk about characters they know >_>

No, but other people who main Sonic came to the conclusion that there is nothing more left to talk about. NOTHING. And that TWICE. And there really is nothing more to talk about Sonic.

I agree with this one.

>__> it's pretty much that someone says some BS, then ShadowLink proceeds to assault with a wall of text that the other person doesn't really read, then 4 other people jump in, because the Sonic mains actually use SWF, etc.


It's pretty common, actually.

anyway, if someone comes tirading or debating Sonic's tier placement, link them to this post:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6354232#post6354232

top of pg 112 for people with default settings

9_9; it pretty much gives a satisfactory answer from people who actually have say in the tier list saying that they didn't know too much about Sonic initially, and regardless, that all lower tiers are subject to lack of knowledge and will have more scrutiny/accuracy next time.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I guess C.F is really the worst character in the game. :/

 

[Tenki]

Kind of but not really :3

some people obviously thought that he wasn't worthy of being the worst character, since he doesn't have a 'unanimous' score of [1].

He has some pretty painful moves and strings, and a bunch of air(dodge) pressure and OoS moves.

:/

 

[EdreesesPieces]

There is no worst character. The bottom 5 are like tied. Can you honestly say any one of them has anything to stand themselves out above the rest?

 

[Red Arremer]

I agree with this one.

>__> it's pretty much that someone says some BS, then ShadowLink proceeds to assault with a wall of text that the other person doesn't really read, then 4 other people jump in, because the Sonic mains actually use SWF, etc.

i c wut u fixd thar

Glad you agree with me, though. I still see you as one of the most reasonable guys from the Sonic boards, because you don't just go on a rampage or something. You even said yourself that Sonic sucks.

I respect you for who you are, and what you stand for, and as said: I love debating in this thread, but honestly, so much things could be talked about. Sonic has been done. Eaten, digested, pooped out, and then eaten again.

So yea. Captain Falcon is the topic nao, I guess? Cool.

@Edreeses:
Falcon... PAWNCH!

;P

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Well met!. .

 

[ShadowLink84]

>__> it's pretty much that someone says some BS, then ShadowLink proceeds to assault with a wall of text that the other person doesn't really read, then 4 other people jump in, because the Sonic mains actually use SWF, etc.

I always find it rather annoying when everyone else jumps in.
Makes it hard to keep track of posts.
Besides I don't WOT everyone.

Usually *innocent look*
I just debate when I hear something stupid. Which is rather often.

i c wut u fixd thar

Glad you agree with me, though. I still see you as one of the most reasonable guys from the Sonic boards, because you don't just go on a rampage or something. You even said yourself that Sonic sucks.

I said it too =(

 

[ShadowLink84]

opps sorry

 

[Red Arremer]

I said it too =(

Ew, double posts! *slaps*

Yea, you said it too, but Tenki even made a thread about it.

 

[Deathcarter]

Why does everyone who uses a low tier character think their main deserves to be above Samus? She is well above bottom 5 and although she is bad (or beyond awful if you take Gimpyfish's word), I am glad the SBR realizes that she does not deserve to move down.

She has 3 **** matchups, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and Olimar. Snake is debatable since most that I played really are not smart enough to walk up to her and smash her face in so I would not know if it is 70:30 or 65:35. Falco is stage dependent, he is reasonable on Battlefield and Lylat Cruise, but murder on Smashville and Final Destination. Everyone of her other matchups in A and B tier are 65:35 with a few 60:40's. Most of everyone between C and E tier with the possible exception of Pikachu has a 60:40 advantage on her with the exception of the Ice Climbers and Bowser who she has an even and slight advantaged matchup with respectively. Not so sure on DK though.

Now that does not look very good, but note that the matchups of the other lower tiers are HIGHLY debateable. I find it hard to beleive that quite a few of the low tiers not named Lucas or Mario don't have a bunch of 65:35 matchups and any **** matchups.

Besides, unlike most of the F and G tiers aside from Mario (who I beleive should be above Samus anyway), she has more than one above average move to work with: ftilt, dair, charge and uncharged shot, and zair. Honestly, I think she is the third highest low tier after Ness and Pokemon trainer (Mario imo is mid tier).

 

[*Jose*]

thats good work

 

[Umby]

Well, in response, I'm one of the few who believes Samus > my low tier character.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ew, double posts! *slaps*

Yea, you said it too, but Tenki even made a thread about it.

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT! T_T

Meh Tenki thought people were too dumb to know why he sucked. I find it rather funny.

 

[Deathcarter]

Well, in response, I'm one of the few who believes Samus > my low tier character.

Well thanks, that is a lot coming from a Sonic (well a Sonic who admits his character is very bad, but a Sonic none the less). :D

 

[ShadowLink84]

Well thanks, that is a lot coming from a Sonic (well a Sonic who admits his character is very bad, but a Sonic none the less). :D

Believes Sonic>Samus

Yeah I said it.
*runs away from missiles*

Which reminds me I've been meaning to ask. A number of charged moves are much more powerful whent hey are nearly charged.
Ike's eruption, DK's giant punch,, Warios...Fart , so is this the same with Samus?
I don't have my game with me right now so I haven't checked.