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The Official Ice Climbers' Video Thread
- Thread starter Smoom77
- Start date
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
'Yea, you know those vids I had where I smacked that scrubby sonic main around, yea I need everyone to see those.'
'What about the ones where you actually play against good people?'
'nahhhhh fk that, I can let people see me playing against legit threats...'
'What about the ones where you actually play against good people?'
'nahhhhh fk that, I can let people see me playing against legit threats...'
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Aight bro, Smoom JUST got back to actually updating the thread and then you're gonna ***** about it?
Second, ain't you the dude that goes around the sonic boards talking about how much better you are of a sonic in the first place? Why are you now starting to say "scrubby sonic main"? You used to talk so much **** about how you were better than D1AOS because of the ditto now you on this? Nah bro. Get out of here.
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
This. I'm surprised Lux didn't straight out infract you for going to another character's video thread (not that there's anything wrong with that) and not even contributing at all.
All you did was be a king scrub and ***** at Lux.
GTFO of our board.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,311
Yall need to relax please
But seriously Smoom, since you aren't on skype let me explain here why I don't want stuff listed.
It's for two reasons:
1. My game play has been changing drastically for the last six months. So anything that isn't relevant to the last tournament I've played in is outdated and borderline misinformation. All of the sets with Fino that were up are super outdated.
2. At the same time, after tournament, I like to dissect my own game before I start taking opinions from other people. Unfortunately, you and Enda found my set with Ripple before I had a chance to look over it myself. And then Enda C&P'd what you thought of it. So now I have what your opinion is in the back of my mind while trying to dissect it, so I'm not accurately seeing things how I want to dissect it but rather am viewing it through the guise that it looks like I don't know the matchup. I'm fine with getting my videos up, I just want the chance to dissect it myself before things get listed for other people to start dissecting.
The second one is my more primary reason.
But seriously Smoom, since you aren't on skype let me explain here why I don't want stuff listed.
It's for two reasons:
1. My game play has been changing drastically for the last six months. So anything that isn't relevant to the last tournament I've played in is outdated and borderline misinformation. All of the sets with Fino that were up are super outdated.
2. At the same time, after tournament, I like to dissect my own game before I start taking opinions from other people. Unfortunately, you and Enda found my set with Ripple before I had a chance to look over it myself. And then Enda C&P'd what you thought of it. So now I have what your opinion is in the back of my mind while trying to dissect it, so I'm not accurately seeing things how I want to dissect it but rather am viewing it through the guise that it looks like I don't know the matchup. I'm fine with getting my videos up, I just want the chance to dissect it myself before things get listed for other people to start dissecting.
The second one is my more primary reason.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
nahhh lux, I always want as many vids of me online as possible. I was just screwing with you because I found the concept of how one (probably wouldnt, but still possibly) see that line of reasoning.
I like having vids up because it gives me the chance to give myself an overview of the match. but unlike you, I love watching vids of myself from 1, 2, even 3 years ago, because i feel like my character can do so much, sometimes I forget about certain moves or strats that I may need to re-implement into my game.
@rubberguy
if youre really THAT salty about me being better than your friend, I MIGHT be at Ktar with him next month so I might get a chance to see how much hes improved.
also. Im loud and opinionated, and despite what you think you know about me, im really not THAT egotistical. but if im better than somebody, ill say so, and if im not, ill say so then too. but since i actually do believe myself to be better than a lot of people, thats what you see of me. when im being honest and not just messing around and saying whatever, im much more humble.
i.e. when i played like a GD scrub against roller, and lux.
@other guy.
its not like ive never been here before. Im subscribed so I stop in every now and then. but I dont say much here since, well, what am I going to say about ICs that the people that main him dont already know?
I like having vids up because it gives me the chance to give myself an overview of the match. but unlike you, I love watching vids of myself from 1, 2, even 3 years ago, because i feel like my character can do so much, sometimes I forget about certain moves or strats that I may need to re-implement into my game.
@rubberguy
if youre really THAT salty about me being better than your friend, I MIGHT be at Ktar with him next month so I might get a chance to see how much hes improved.
also. Im loud and opinionated, and despite what you think you know about me, im really not THAT egotistical. but if im better than somebody, ill say so, and if im not, ill say so then too. but since i actually do believe myself to be better than a lot of people, thats what you see of me. when im being honest and not just messing around and saying whatever, im much more humble.
i.e. when i played like a GD scrub against roller, and lux.
@other guy.
its not like ive never been here before. Im subscribed so I stop in every now and then. but I dont say much here since, well, what am I going to say about ICs that the people that main him dont already know?
Myollnir
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtZJEpOpEMM
I made many mistakes, but anyway he was better and he knew how to play the MU.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
I made many mistakes, but anyway he was better and he knew how to play the MU.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Roller
Smash Legend
Ok, I'm halfway through the second game. I'll comment more later but.. Your f-fthrow cg has always been fine.
The one you are using here on this MK, while hilariously whimsical is unnecessarily difficult. Not just to time, but to space it. Which is where most of your cg errors seem to be occurring. I would HIGHLY recommend learning b-throw -> d-throw cg for mk. I think you will find it easier to space, and the fact that it doesn't move you backwards across the stage is a plus as well.
The one you are using here on this MK, while hilariously whimsical is unnecessarily difficult. Not just to time, but to space it. Which is where most of your cg errors seem to be occurring. I would HIGHLY recommend learning b-throw -> d-throw cg for mk. I think you will find it easier to space, and the fact that it doesn't move you backwards across the stage is a plus as well.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
I don't know why but I find it much easier.
However, I'm learning the FThrow-BThrow CG.
Edit : I couldn't FThrow MK because I didn't have the correct timing before.
However, I'm learning the FThrow-BThrow CG.
Edit : I couldn't FThrow MK because I didn't have the correct timing before.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
You can always do the standard Dthrow Bthrow. The CG you were doing was less effective than normal because you were doubling you chances of tripping just by running with popo as well.
Also the most important thing I saw for the games you didn't do that is especially more important vs. Metaknight is that you didn't tilt you shield. You got shield poked by nado way more than you should have. Every time you see tornado practice tilting your shield upward to prevent pokes. Tilting your shield is really effective to both conserve shield energy and to keep you from getting poked all day. Plus it counts as DI towards the opponent if you shield towards them, meaning you may get grabs you might normally miss.
Also the most important thing I saw for the games you didn't do that is especially more important vs. Metaknight is that you didn't tilt you shield. You got shield poked by nado way more than you should have. Every time you see tornado practice tilting your shield upward to prevent pokes. Tilting your shield is really effective to both conserve shield energy and to keep you from getting poked all day. Plus it counts as DI towards the opponent if you shield towards them, meaning you may get grabs you might normally miss.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Yeah I noticed I got hit by nado even when I shield, but now I dodge the last 2 hits of the nado.
But thank you, I'll try to tilt my shield.
Oh and btw, I know my CG sucks, but I couldn't be able to BThrow or even FThrow Metaknight at this tournament.
Now I learned it
But thank you, I'll try to tilt my shield.
Oh and btw, I know my CG sucks, but I couldn't be able to BThrow or even FThrow Metaknight at this tournament.
Now I learned it
Roller
Smash Legend
Also, learn how to switch from solo popo dthrow cg to nana from a popo dthrow to nana walking grab. I saw there were a few times you solo cg'd to the edge then were stuck because you hadn't done that/didn't know the bthrow to nana cg. Also keep in mind you can walking cg mk (i forget the percents, but it's from like 10% to ~30%) which will allow you to get more percent out of your solo cg before reaching the edge of the stage, and give nana more time to catch up to you and do the normal cg if she had been hit away.
Other than that cg stuff, in game one I saw you looking for the pivot grabs on his tornado, which was good. However in game 2 you let him dash attack you back and forth over and over, make sure to get those easy pivot grabs in. I believe that if you learned the other ways to cg mk, you could/would have won that.
Your gameplay seems pretty solid
EDIT: glad you learned the bthrow, I expect to see you using it to **** him next time!
Other than that cg stuff, in game one I saw you looking for the pivot grabs on his tornado, which was good. However in game 2 you let him dash attack you back and forth over and over, make sure to get those easy pivot grabs in. I believe that if you learned the other ways to cg mk, you could/would have won that.
Your gameplay seems pretty solid
EDIT: glad you learned the bthrow, I expect to see you using it to **** him next time!
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Fthrow > Bthrow CG works better on middleweights. Bthrow > Dthrow is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier on MK. It becomes clockwork once you get it.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
I think I can walk until 40%, but I'm afraid to miss and eat a SL so I prefer to dashgrab...
I can't Solo CG properly, and it's even worse when it's not MK...
I stopped trying to pivot grab him because he spaced his nado perfectly.
Thank you
I can't Solo CG properly, and it's even worse when it's not MK...
I stopped trying to pivot grab him because he spaced his nado perfectly.
Thank you
Myollnir
Smash Ace
I'm really sorry about my very bad english, but I can't understand "nitpicky".
What does it mean?
What does it mean?
Roller
Smash Legend
He's asking if he should point out every tiny little thing he sees that is wrong, or if he should just hit main issues.
Also, I understand why you stopped going to pivotgrab the nado, I was pointing out that you should have tried using it on the flurry of dash attacks game 2.
Also, I understand why you stopped going to pivotgrab the nado, I was pointing out that you should have tried using it on the flurry of dash attacks game 2.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
@Lux : I'd love if you tell me what's wrong (even the tiny things, but I'll be glad if you just tell me what are my main mistakes )
@Roller : Okay, I'll try it next time! Thanks
)@Roller : Okay, I'll try it next time! Thanks
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,311
Set 1-
0:08 - I like the start of blizzard wall on platform. However, you went to full hop the blizzard to cut him off from going over, which gets you nado'd. Don't full hop your blizzard wall in this situation because he doesn't get any zoning advantage on you if he goes over you, so you don't need to keep blizzard walling at that point. SH Uair will serve it's purpose and if he DOES cross over he still has to deal with the platform along with Uair pressure or he has to go underneath which is Blizzard wall and grab territory. This trade cost you 30 damage and almost cost you Nana if he didn't misspace the shuttle loop at 15 seconds. And it was a trade that didn't need to happen.
- At 24 seconds in, your first option you selected to counter a charging MK was pivot grab. This is a mistake in the matchup in my opinion. Most metaknights will space read a Fair or Dair on approach. Pivot grab beats neither of those options. Your go to should have been to shield, or in the immediate seconds before he approached you, you could have used a QUICK desync option on the ground to keep him zoned on the ground
- I have this issue to so it's kind of hypocritical, but be more aggressive in saving Nana. You tried to sync her with an Uair, but you were too far away. That's why you lost your Nana and this stock is now more or less wasted.
- At the beginning of stock two, you went to blizzard wall and followed it with a Popo charged smash. This got you nado punished at 47 seconds. If you're going to bait with a smash, bait with Nana because you can cancel her smash animation regardless of where she is at in the animation. Tilt your shield up on Nado.
- Learn pFthrow > nBthrow. That CG you're using is like, the worst possible combination of CGs you could pick lol
- At 1:30, if you rolled off the ledge, you get a grab.
- At 1:35, use LD1 OoS instead of doing a run cancelling shield drop to a Kakera 2 Dash Shield Drop desync. You would keep more space and it's faster.
- At 1:41, you gave him back a free stock for no reason. Dthrow CG please. One Solo to One Nana Walking and you got this set home free
- At 1:37, you hit him out of tornado with Blizzard. Did you notice anything peculiar? Most metaknights at that point will immediately buffer another special such as another Nado or Drill rush because they are mashing B. Since he didn't immediately go into another special, it means that he's using short Nado on you. This is an important observation.
- You did another full hop wall at 1:52 and it got you nado'd again. This is a bad trade
- By 2:00 you now know he's spacing tornado really well to not pivot grab it. However his spacing is based of of initial height. You would have done well to sit in shield and tilt your shield up, because at that point he's going to have a hard time regaining significant height to get to the platform because he's doing a short nado read. At the very least, you'd get an uair punish instead of getting hit by Nado.
- You decide to Rogue Charge Fsmash at 2:36. MK is nowhere near kill range. Save your charge smashes until kill percents, and work off of grab, jab, dash attack, aerials to rack damage. If you can condition them to spot dodge, THEN you go for a charged smash.
- You Full Hop Blizzard Wall Again. And got Nado punished. Recurring theme
- If you learn my CG and CG finisher you won't get mashed out of grabs at the kill point ever again, I promise you
- Remember that you desync when you belay to the ledge. You separated yourself when you didn't have to, which was the trade that ended your set more or less.
Set 2
- Drop Grabs have cost you two stocks so far in the entire match, but it's alright because you're ahead by a lot now
- You are up by 70% and you aren't blizzard walling under a platform letting him approach you. Looks like me playing and even I know that's a bad habit of being impatient
- Another Rogue Charge Fsmash at 76. He hasn't been conditioned to get hit by it nor is he in kill percent. Bad option imo
- You are still approaching while winning even though he's clearly punishing you for it
- You blizzard wall him at like 5:11 under the platform and he gets wrecked by it, but then you press too hard and get punished for it
- I am not sure why you are smash walling him, does that even work against MK?
- If you roll at the tornado at 6:57 instead of spot dodge, you probably get a grab
- If you got a grab out of that rogue fair at 7:00, you would have been my hero lol
- You just gave him two extra stock via drops. I hope it doesn't come back to bite you in the set
- You kind of need to do a better job of reading him while in Blizzard wall. He jumps to this exact same spacing and nados you every time. You have to remember, it's MK and he can't move quickly in the air except for Nado. Retreating the wall slightly will help give you more cushion to space it, but you're kinda just throwing it out in a spray and pray sort of fashion.
- At 9:15, I would have just taken the ledge and reset. If he went after nana, he would have been in trouble from an invincible back air from you on the ledge. Going for that Fair seemed risky imo, especially with nana off stage.
- Dropped grabs lost you this set
Set 3
- You gave him a free stock to open the match
- He has now gone to spot dodge immediately after Nado to cover his landing the last two times in a row he's used it. You should note that.
- Kind of a weird CG position to be in, so I won't call the drop at the top platform a free stock.
- He has grabbed you out of spawn twice in a row now. You should note that
- You are using Dair too much to cover your landing. I know you're trying to prevent getting shuttle looped, but it's too predictable
- There was no reason to squall back on stage at 11:38. I have this habit too. Just land and reset and get your damage in. Outside of those notes though, that was a great sopo stock.
- You lost Nana because you were going for some Janky Fair - IB wall. Popo's Fair doesn't spike btw. I'm not sure what you were trying to do with that wall, but especially with the lead you had, going to primary options of blizzard wall would probably have been safer. You gotta throw what you know.
- 12:48 was a GREAT place for that Rogue Fsmash. Notice the percent situation
- Not a great sopo stock. Too much air dodging into them. I have that habit too :\
- On the last stock, you did wayyyy too many solo dthrow CGs. Each one has a chance of tripping in both Nana and Popo because they were together. If you start your CG, you half that chance of tripping.
Set 4
- You can't punish Dair with Pivot grab. Stop trying to do that
- he got lucky the stage transformation saved him from that belay kill lol
- At 15:43, you naired him instead of the free grab
- There was that third tornado read 16:57. Based on conditioning, that should have been a grab. If you really aren't sure, just DSC into them. It protects from dsmash and shuttle loop, and let's you react to spot dodge. But that one you should have known it was coming.
- WOW that's the second time the level transforming saved him at 17:20. I wonder if it was intentional at this point.
- Trying to get out of the water at that point was kind of a mistake. MK doesn't really have many great options at that area specifically of the stage since Dair doesn't knock you places. Coming out left you open to being separated. You should have just hoped for the level to transform, held shield, and hoped you could get him to overcommit and grab him
- 16:02 - nana combo video why? If you tap shield, Nana would roll off the ledge. Although getting the grab might have buffered getup attack, I'm not sure to be honest
- Generally a bad idea to blizzard wall a sharking MK on Delfino if he's directly underneath you. Horizontally zoned it's fined. But directly underneath? no good
Notes:
Rogue Charge smash smarter
You use Dair too much on recovery
Don't full hop blizzard wall
Read with Blizzard wall
Don't approach with the lead
Pretty standard stuff imo
I don't like your use of Fair, but that's my opinion because I sort of just hate fair in general tbh
Outside of that, I'm really impressed with your ICs
0:08 - I like the start of blizzard wall on platform. However, you went to full hop the blizzard to cut him off from going over, which gets you nado'd. Don't full hop your blizzard wall in this situation because he doesn't get any zoning advantage on you if he goes over you, so you don't need to keep blizzard walling at that point. SH Uair will serve it's purpose and if he DOES cross over he still has to deal with the platform along with Uair pressure or he has to go underneath which is Blizzard wall and grab territory. This trade cost you 30 damage and almost cost you Nana if he didn't misspace the shuttle loop at 15 seconds. And it was a trade that didn't need to happen.
- At 24 seconds in, your first option you selected to counter a charging MK was pivot grab. This is a mistake in the matchup in my opinion. Most metaknights will space read a Fair or Dair on approach. Pivot grab beats neither of those options. Your go to should have been to shield, or in the immediate seconds before he approached you, you could have used a QUICK desync option on the ground to keep him zoned on the ground
- I have this issue to so it's kind of hypocritical, but be more aggressive in saving Nana. You tried to sync her with an Uair, but you were too far away. That's why you lost your Nana and this stock is now more or less wasted.
- At the beginning of stock two, you went to blizzard wall and followed it with a Popo charged smash. This got you nado punished at 47 seconds. If you're going to bait with a smash, bait with Nana because you can cancel her smash animation regardless of where she is at in the animation. Tilt your shield up on Nado.
- Learn pFthrow > nBthrow. That CG you're using is like, the worst possible combination of CGs you could pick lol
- At 1:30, if you rolled off the ledge, you get a grab.
- At 1:35, use LD1 OoS instead of doing a run cancelling shield drop to a Kakera 2 Dash Shield Drop desync. You would keep more space and it's faster.
- At 1:41, you gave him back a free stock for no reason. Dthrow CG please. One Solo to One Nana Walking and you got this set home free
- At 1:37, you hit him out of tornado with Blizzard. Did you notice anything peculiar? Most metaknights at that point will immediately buffer another special such as another Nado or Drill rush because they are mashing B. Since he didn't immediately go into another special, it means that he's using short Nado on you. This is an important observation.
- You did another full hop wall at 1:52 and it got you nado'd again. This is a bad trade
- By 2:00 you now know he's spacing tornado really well to not pivot grab it. However his spacing is based of of initial height. You would have done well to sit in shield and tilt your shield up, because at that point he's going to have a hard time regaining significant height to get to the platform because he's doing a short nado read. At the very least, you'd get an uair punish instead of getting hit by Nado.
- You decide to Rogue Charge Fsmash at 2:36. MK is nowhere near kill range. Save your charge smashes until kill percents, and work off of grab, jab, dash attack, aerials to rack damage. If you can condition them to spot dodge, THEN you go for a charged smash.
- You Full Hop Blizzard Wall Again. And got Nado punished. Recurring theme
- If you learn my CG and CG finisher you won't get mashed out of grabs at the kill point ever again, I promise you
- Remember that you desync when you belay to the ledge. You separated yourself when you didn't have to, which was the trade that ended your set more or less.
Set 2
- Drop Grabs have cost you two stocks so far in the entire match, but it's alright because you're ahead by a lot now
- You are up by 70% and you aren't blizzard walling under a platform letting him approach you. Looks like me playing and even I know that's a bad habit of being impatient
- Another Rogue Charge Fsmash at 76. He hasn't been conditioned to get hit by it nor is he in kill percent. Bad option imo
- You are still approaching while winning even though he's clearly punishing you for it
- You blizzard wall him at like 5:11 under the platform and he gets wrecked by it, but then you press too hard and get punished for it
- I am not sure why you are smash walling him, does that even work against MK?
- If you roll at the tornado at 6:57 instead of spot dodge, you probably get a grab
- If you got a grab out of that rogue fair at 7:00, you would have been my hero lol
- You just gave him two extra stock via drops. I hope it doesn't come back to bite you in the set
- You kind of need to do a better job of reading him while in Blizzard wall. He jumps to this exact same spacing and nados you every time. You have to remember, it's MK and he can't move quickly in the air except for Nado. Retreating the wall slightly will help give you more cushion to space it, but you're kinda just throwing it out in a spray and pray sort of fashion.
- At 9:15, I would have just taken the ledge and reset. If he went after nana, he would have been in trouble from an invincible back air from you on the ledge. Going for that Fair seemed risky imo, especially with nana off stage.
- Dropped grabs lost you this set
Set 3
- You gave him a free stock to open the match
- He has now gone to spot dodge immediately after Nado to cover his landing the last two times in a row he's used it. You should note that.
- Kind of a weird CG position to be in, so I won't call the drop at the top platform a free stock.
But it's a free stock
- He has grabbed you out of spawn twice in a row now. You should note that
- You are using Dair too much to cover your landing. I know you're trying to prevent getting shuttle looped, but it's too predictable
- There was no reason to squall back on stage at 11:38. I have this habit too. Just land and reset and get your damage in. Outside of those notes though, that was a great sopo stock.
- You lost Nana because you were going for some Janky Fair - IB wall. Popo's Fair doesn't spike btw. I'm not sure what you were trying to do with that wall, but especially with the lead you had, going to primary options of blizzard wall would probably have been safer. You gotta throw what you know.
- 12:48 was a GREAT place for that Rogue Fsmash. Notice the percent situation
- Not a great sopo stock. Too much air dodging into them. I have that habit too :\
- On the last stock, you did wayyyy too many solo dthrow CGs. Each one has a chance of tripping in both Nana and Popo because they were together. If you start your CG, you half that chance of tripping.
Set 4
- You can't punish Dair with Pivot grab. Stop trying to do that
- he got lucky the stage transformation saved him from that belay kill lol
- At 15:43, you naired him instead of the free grab
- There was that third tornado read 16:57. Based on conditioning, that should have been a grab. If you really aren't sure, just DSC into them. It protects from dsmash and shuttle loop, and let's you react to spot dodge. But that one you should have known it was coming.
- WOW that's the second time the level transforming saved him at 17:20. I wonder if it was intentional at this point.
- Trying to get out of the water at that point was kind of a mistake. MK doesn't really have many great options at that area specifically of the stage since Dair doesn't knock you places. Coming out left you open to being separated. You should have just hoped for the level to transform, held shield, and hoped you could get him to overcommit and grab him
- 16:02 - nana combo video why? If you tap shield, Nana would roll off the ledge. Although getting the grab might have buffered getup attack, I'm not sure to be honest
- Generally a bad idea to blizzard wall a sharking MK on Delfino if he's directly underneath you. Horizontally zoned it's fined. But directly underneath? no good
Notes:
Rogue Charge smash smarter
You use Dair too much on recovery
Don't full hop blizzard wall
Read with Blizzard wall
Don't approach with the lead
Pretty standard stuff imo
I don't like your use of Fair, but that's my opinion because I sort of just hate fair in general tbh
Outside of that, I'm really impressed with your ICs
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Wow, thank you very much for your help!
I'm sure it'll help me a lot, really!
Now I know on which parts of my gameplay I should work
Btw, for my Dairs, I know it's bad but I really hate SL. Next time I'll try to Dair only when I know I'll not hit the ground during my Dair.
I'm sure it'll help me a lot, really!
Now I know on which parts of my gameplay I should work
Btw, for my Dairs, I know it's bad but I really hate SL. Next time I'll try to Dair only when I know I'll not hit the ground during my Dair.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,311
It's funny because I feel like you and I play the matchup very similarly. Even some of our bad habits are pretty similar.
When you get a chance to play again, if you work off of shielded tornado, try to learn the Roll or Spot dodge situational read where you use the cstick to spotdodge or roll while tilting shield up. If you do it right, Tornado is one of the more grabbable moves MK will use, if not the most grabbable, even without pivot grab.
When you get a chance to play again, if you work off of shielded tornado, try to learn the Roll or Spot dodge situational read where you use the cstick to spotdodge or roll while tilting shield up. If you do it right, Tornado is one of the more grabbable moves MK will use, if not the most grabbable, even without pivot grab.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Now I can punish it better, I learned to Nair when I'm caught in the nado so I can hit MK during his nado (but not 100%, sometimes I can't)
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
...
Uh, how?
I'd REALLY like to know this, because if this can be done pretty consistently we can punish him for nado even if we get hit. x)
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
The top of tornado doesn't have a hitbox, and it has a hurtbox (Meaning, MK can get hit without you getting hit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR1lM43aQ6s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR1lM43aQ6s
Myollnir
Smash Ace
You need to be sent upwards though
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
So with proper DI (meaning we DI up and in the direction the nado is moving) we could buffer a nair out of hitstun?
Myollnir
Smash Ace
You need to be hit by the nado (a hit which have knockback) and you can Nair. But it doesn't work sometimes.
(It's just like MK's Dair when you're in the nado in the ditto)
(It's just like MK's Dair when you're in the nado in the ditto)
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,311
I've been able to abuse this with IBs on platforms as well, or if they try sharking with nado IB's on the ground have a similar effect. I'm not saying, "Start IBing nado everyone!" It's just that it's another mixup/ more obscure option to choose from
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Pretty much yeah
2-DJeff
Smash Master
Yea you just di nado up and nair. But it dosnt work if the mk user knows how to do it right unless I did it wrong against m2k and xaltis
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Ah yes, my obligatory "Put this up so that Lux will give me my pages of critique post."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sj7Ds5d4j0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpBeLeKCXEg
Those are the 2 games I went Icies.
Expect me to post up some friendlies of me vs Kadaj sometime soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sj7Ds5d4j0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpBeLeKCXEg
Those are the 2 games I went Icies.
Expect me to post up some friendlies of me vs Kadaj sometime soon.
Prawn
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,031
rubber ill critique you can critique my critique afterwards.
ill just note as I watch.
00:15 - Solid grab, early in the game. You probably dropped this due to lack of mindset and the shock getting a grab 10 seconds in at an early percent? At least thats what I figure. Honestly a lot of dropping grabs is mental, you have to be prepared at any moment to get one.
00:22 - Lol ice climbers, you also have to be ready to accept this. Nana not being where she sould be and a button/spacing slip up and you SD. you just cant let it get to you. but being down a stock sucks vs sonic :/
00:35 - i like the desync, he didnt really know how to approach but hes in the lead so he doesnt have to. That would have been a great start out if you were in the lead and its an alright bait if they're greedy.
00:45 - again, you're playing the matchup correct it just sucks you sd'd, nice ice block thats quality IC camping/longrange, you could have followed it with popo maybe but thats risky
00:51 Really a pivot grab you should be getting there on a read. even if you throw it out and whiff you're still relatively safe most times and the risk:reward is in your favor. Maybe you were just about to idk but I feel like that was a free grab
up to 1:11 - Nice desync to bait him into being a bit aggressive and nice grab, but you can slow down and do a few security grabs for godlike di at high percents. that WAS godlike di, bad luck
up to 1:25 - REALLY fishing for the kill here, if he gives you space then just do some desync, desync SH blizz can lead to uair or bair. Desyncs are good setups for kills and baits them into doing stupid stuff. that dair... lol. So now you're kinda getting *****
1:40 - m!nDg@aM3z. also nice platform cancel
1:43 - that role on their invincibility is some scrub **** yo dont do that
up to 2:10 - i like the aggression with popo just trying to get some percent, unfortunately this sonic is pretty good from the looks of it, i would try more bairing to space and bait something, a dthrow woulda been a cg or at least a usmash so i maybe would just gone for a grab since its just popo
2:18 - desync woulda worked fine had you not full hopped the popo blizz i believe
2:30 - wat. sonic can meteor cancel even if that was a good spike. should have dthrowned then maybe just throw the bthrow from nana to popo. practice that one for that exact situation
2:40 - PIVOT GRAB PIVOT GRAB PIVOT GRAB
2:47 - Clutch iceblock. ****ing love that ****
3:00 - nice recovery, you can do fh synced blizz here if they take an extra second on the edge, sonic doesnt have the horizontal movement to punish it. or if youre fast you can desync blizz into dtilt or sh iceblock or something if they run into it off the ledgejump
3:06 - PIVOT GRAB PIVOT GRAB PIVOT GRAB
til end of match: i like your popo, keep working on him, its very handy to have a mad solid popo
edit: if you like that ill do the other match
ill just note as I watch.
00:15 - Solid grab, early in the game. You probably dropped this due to lack of mindset and the shock getting a grab 10 seconds in at an early percent? At least thats what I figure. Honestly a lot of dropping grabs is mental, you have to be prepared at any moment to get one.
00:22 - Lol ice climbers, you also have to be ready to accept this. Nana not being where she sould be and a button/spacing slip up and you SD. you just cant let it get to you. but being down a stock sucks vs sonic :/
00:35 - i like the desync, he didnt really know how to approach but hes in the lead so he doesnt have to. That would have been a great start out if you were in the lead and its an alright bait if they're greedy.
00:45 - again, you're playing the matchup correct it just sucks you sd'd, nice ice block thats quality IC camping/longrange, you could have followed it with popo maybe but thats risky
00:51 Really a pivot grab you should be getting there on a read. even if you throw it out and whiff you're still relatively safe most times and the risk:reward is in your favor. Maybe you were just about to idk but I feel like that was a free grab
up to 1:11 - Nice desync to bait him into being a bit aggressive and nice grab, but you can slow down and do a few security grabs for godlike di at high percents. that WAS godlike di, bad luck
up to 1:25 - REALLY fishing for the kill here, if he gives you space then just do some desync, desync SH blizz can lead to uair or bair. Desyncs are good setups for kills and baits them into doing stupid stuff. that dair... lol. So now you're kinda getting *****
1:40 - m!nDg@aM3z. also nice platform cancel
1:43 - that role on their invincibility is some scrub **** yo dont do that
up to 2:10 - i like the aggression with popo just trying to get some percent, unfortunately this sonic is pretty good from the looks of it, i would try more bairing to space and bait something, a dthrow woulda been a cg or at least a usmash so i maybe would just gone for a grab since its just popo
2:18 - desync woulda worked fine had you not full hopped the popo blizz i believe
2:30 - wat. sonic can meteor cancel even if that was a good spike. should have dthrowned then maybe just throw the bthrow from nana to popo. practice that one for that exact situation
2:40 - PIVOT GRAB PIVOT GRAB PIVOT GRAB
2:47 - Clutch iceblock. ****ing love that ****
3:00 - nice recovery, you can do fh synced blizz here if they take an extra second on the edge, sonic doesnt have the horizontal movement to punish it. or if youre fast you can desync blizz into dtilt or sh iceblock or something if they run into it off the ledgejump
3:06 - PIVOT GRAB PIVOT GRAB PIVOT GRAB
til end of match: i like your popo, keep working on him, its very handy to have a mad solid popo
edit: if you like that ill do the other match