Roller
Smash Legend
You can grab his ftilt on sheild if he miss spaces it or doesn't do the second hit immediately or something.
idk, I get grabs off of it somehow...
idk, I get grabs off of it somehow...
-
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The Official Ice Climbers' Video Thread
- Thread starter Smoom77
- Start date
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Its so risky because of the second hit coming out. You have to powershield or you're not safe at all. Plus they can just pivot grab you or nana and now you have a huge amount of pressure on you to recover safely/ keep nana from getting fsmashed to oblivion.
I'd rather just stay out of range and force him to do something stupid or risky.
I'd rather just stay out of range and force him to do something stupid or risky.
Roller
Smash Legend
I mean, if you play like that. You are going to be eating nades as he camps to high heaven. You have to put pressure on him or he has no reason not to just sit and cook+throw grenades all day.
I mean, SK is a respectable snake, and I beat him pretty handily by keeping him on his toes.
At the end of the day, ICs aren't scary when you aren't in your opponents face. If you're across the stage and your opponent can just sit on a platform and spam projectiles, he's not going to do something stupid. When you start going in there and making them commit to options, that's when they start getting nervous and slip up.
Also, living like 10 min from Lain means I'm very much prone to his style of play, just as I play pika in a style more similar to Anther's than ESAM's. I have a lot of exposure and experience with it from watching and playing with these guys. Lain's strategy is all about calculated risk and applying pressure. While I play a little more reserved than him and don't do as many aggressively risky desynchs, I do still take after a lot of his methodology.
I guess in short, I go in because that's what I've always seen Lain do when he's playing in WFs/LFs/GFs, and I see it work time and time again. (Granted it didn't work quite as well for him this time. lol)
I mean, SK is a respectable snake, and I beat him pretty handily by keeping him on his toes.
At the end of the day, ICs aren't scary when you aren't in your opponents face. If you're across the stage and your opponent can just sit on a platform and spam projectiles, he's not going to do something stupid. When you start going in there and making them commit to options, that's when they start getting nervous and slip up.
Also, living like 10 min from Lain means I'm very much prone to his style of play, just as I play pika in a style more similar to Anther's than ESAM's. I have a lot of exposure and experience with it from watching and playing with these guys. Lain's strategy is all about calculated risk and applying pressure. While I play a little more reserved than him and don't do as many aggressively risky desynchs, I do still take after a lot of his methodology.
I guess in short, I go in because that's what I've always seen Lain do when he's playing in WFs/LFs/GFs, and I see it work time and time again. (Granted it didn't work quite as well for him this time. lol)
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
I never said I'm like way back in the back though. I'm just not in his Ftilt range so I'm not taking a constant 28%. I'm Zoning blizzards and Ice Blocks so he can't just continuously stay safe pulling nades. If he moves up too much to try and damage you, you can punish with a grab. Instant toss nades out of your face to pressure him into having to approach.
Like really, you're playing EXTREMELY risky for me in the matchup imo.
Like really, you're playing EXTREMELY risky for me in the matchup imo.
Ralph Cecil
Smash Champion
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Just wanna say that you can't instant toss well cooked nades back. o-o
Roller
Smash Legend
Thanks Smoom, I'll work on using it a bit more in the mu. Could you be a little more specific though? Like, when I'm returning to the stage, or when approaching, or when he's on a platform, etc? Or if you could give a few time stamps where it might have been a better option in that match in particular.
Either or.
And yeah, anybody can feel free to mention things if they see them. I just didn't want to be one of those guys who just posts a vid of a solid win and asks for critique on it like they're only trying to showing off or something.
Either or.
And yeah, anybody can feel free to mention things if they see them. I just didn't want to be one of those guys who just posts a vid of a solid win and asks for critique on it like they're only trying to showing off or something.
Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
holy bumps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KvkhCnZX0U&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ACHjKjmMfI&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=363yZhKUkWY&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSMYwri-fWk&
9B vs Selcia friendlies(as far as I know)
to those who are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KvkhCnZX0U&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ACHjKjmMfI&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=363yZhKUkWY&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSMYwri-fWk&
9B vs Selcia friendlies(as far as I know)
to those who are interested.
Roller
Smash Legend
It took a total of 8 seconds for me to say wtf.
Yeah the first stock in the first and third game were pretty amazing.
By pretty amazing I mean holy **** what is wrong with that guy and what does he eat?
By pretty amazing I mean holy **** what is wrong with that guy and what does he eat?
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Never before have I ever hit the subscribe button as fast as I just did.
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
Jesus christ. It is entirely believable that they consider him the best player in Japan.
Roller
Smash Legend
I mean, I think previous vids we've seen of him have more than proved that.
He just...
Keeps getting better. I don't even
He just...
Keeps getting better. I don't even
Sylarius
Smash Ace
Wow... nothing to say, except... that's amaizing.
Ruinn
Smash Ace
Here's a video of me vs Pokemon Trainer level 9. I watched it over and realized I made a few mistakes(had the grab on squirtle at high percents but didn't smash) but oh well. Can I get a critique on what I should add to my game? Sorry it's against a cpu but I don't play ic's on wifi so :| My ic's is new but I really like them and might second them if I get more practice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGBnpNQQ-8Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGBnpNQQ-8Y
Roller
Smash Legend
Alright, I'll give you what advice I can. But for future reference. Even playing vs a casual friend is better than posting a vid vs a cpu.
Obviously I can't judge your reading ability or mixup game vs a cpu. But here's the stuff I noticed.
First thing, pretty easy to fix. When you are uairing the opponent on the platform, you are jumping up past the platform and exposing yourself. Shorthop and do the aerial so that you don't leave yourself as susceptible to a followup attack. This is very important. Otherwise people can just spotdodge your aerial and punish you with dsmash or something. If they know they can do this, they no longer fear the platforms, and you are screwed. You need them to be afraid to stand on them. Uair correctly. Also, use nairs at low percents to go for the sheild push-> dash grab out of the air or IB reset->grab. (on the characters it works on)
Learn to buffer your throws, you were going very slowly, and a half decent masher would render your cg virtually useless at that speed and they wont be afraid of it.
Along the same lines, you kept sliding, which is ok occasionally, and is better than dropping the grab. But when it happens THAT often it means that you really need to work on what I'm going to call finger discipline. Being able to move your thumb (or whatever other fingers you may use for the analog stick if you're some freak like Hylian) consistently and confidently the correct distance in the correct time frame. It looks like your finger is probably holding the direction of the throw too long or you're moving it from one side to the other too quick/slowly or something. And the fact that it happens maybe half the time means your finger motion is not consistent. Once you train your finger to do the same thing every time you will see an extreme reduction in those sliding moments.
Work on your spacing. You kept leaving yourself open within squirtle's attack range and got punished for it repeatedly. you want to continually remain just outside of it until you see your chance to punish endlag for an attack/make a read on what they will do next/etc, or dash in then out to bait something.
Know what options your opponent has, and how to beat them. (has to do with previous point) You can pivotgrab squirtle out of literally ANYTHING he can approach with. Remember this. For other characters you will be need to wait for the powersheild punish on certain moves. If you learn what you can do in response to each move before the match even starts, then you will have a clearly defined flow chart you can use in response to their patterns of attacks/approaches. vs squirtle, I literally just sit there desynched IBing (to force an approach)/blizzarding until he approaches. Then on their first approach in range, you go for the pivograb. If you get them with it, excellent. Kill them. Now they will be required to approach even more, yet they'll be significantly more afraid to do so. You want this. It is how we win.
That is another reason to make your cgs more consistent/fast. I've had many people tell me they often try a stupid aggro approach early on vs an ICs they haven't played before to see if they need to worry about their cging abilities. If you drop it, or do it at a speed which allows them to mash, then you're already done. They wont be afraid and will tear you to shreds. The stock you get from the cg isn't why you need it. It's the fear that your opponent's knowledge of it causes.
Fear hurts more than chaingrabs.
Now, say they get out of range in time and you don't get the grab, or you land a pivotgrab and now they know. The next time you THINK you can get the pivotgrab on the player from their approach, just sheild and see what they do. If they airdodge away or stay out of range instead of pushing in with their aerial or whatever, odds are they are trying to bait you into the pivotgrab so they can punish. This is what smart players will do. You can respond in one of 2 ways.
One is by running after them and calling their approach bluff with aerial punishes or grabbing them in retreat if you're able. The other is to just let them attempt to bait a few times. Then you play the guessing game. They are going to have to put themselves at risk and go for a hit eventually. If you aren't biting on the bait that means they are going to have to risk actually going in to harms way occasionally to hit you. This is great for us. It essentially puts us in a situation where you either guess right, and get their stock. Or guess wrong and lose ~15-25%. This means they have to win the reading game at somewhere around a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio just to stay even with you. I'll take those odds any day.
But again, this is assuming you can get the kill off of the grab.
Practice, practice, practice. I started playing ICs as a secondary as well. However this was after I had been maining pika for over a year, so I no longer needed to practice my main's tech skill much, it was all second nature. I practiced with my "secondary" ICs ~10x as often as I practiced with pika. This is what is required if you want to get decent with this extremely technical character. A lot of times people start with them as a secondary, but because of all the time they put in and the improvement they see as a result, switch to maining them.
If you don't practice, then nobody decent will end up being afraid of your ICs and you've already lost with them before the countdown to the game starts on the screen.
Everything I said about Squirtle can be applied to a lot of other characters btw. Wario being one of them. Here is a match which I think demonstrates a lot of what I'm saying. Notice how on the beginning the Wario is staying on the platform. I respond by safely uairing him through it without exposing myself like I mentioned earlier. Using this strategy correctly, I can essentially just keep dealing damage to him slowly but steadily with virtually no risk of taking damage back at all. Notice how I'm going for the uairs only when he's landing, or poking up just as he jumps. These are the times which he is least likely to be able to punish the poking. A landing opponent is a vulnerable opponent. Learning how to punish landings with ICs both on platforms and on the main stage is absolutely essential. Make them afraid to land, and they'll do stupid, habitual, and in turn predictable things out of fear.
It doesn't take long for the Wario to see that he can't win while just jumping around on the platform. All that's happening is he's taking damage and not able to deal any back through my safe poking. Now he has to come down from the platform to try to get a lead on me somehow. You see me go for a few pivotgrabs as he attempts to find a way in. He stays out of range, but he eventually makes a mistake and mis-spaces a landing. Everyone screws up eventually. All you have to do is keep playing safe and wait. I get the grab and kill him.
On his next stock you see him attempting to come down and getting punished a few times. Then I **** up a pivot grab input and put myself at the edge of the stage. Which takes away my pivotgrab option. The wario sees this chance and moves in. I make a mistake and drop my shield which allows him to separate me. He doesn't capitalize as much as he could have, but like I said, if he gets in then you lose maybe 30ish percent. If I get in, it should be way more. The reads:stock ratio favors me heavily. So I don't sweat the minor setback. Once I get nana back I run to a safe position and begin establishing stage control with Ice blocks. I see him use a grounded get up option and go for the Ice block chaser grab. At this point I **** up the grab after a few reps (cging wario on YI is not my forte
). Notice how he immediately starts playing more aggressive and less afraid. Luckily he ****s up and lands poorly before he got too much momentum. But if he had been playing smarter aggro there he could have done a lot more damage. After I kill him with that cg he starts trying aerial approaches over and over. He hits with one or two. But I know that pivotgrab will beat every one of his aerials. So I dash back and look for him to come after me with another aerial (he hit with the last one, stands to reason he would try again). free grab because I knew how to beat all his aerial options.
I try to end early since as you can see, I was not confident in my cging on wario with that curvy floor. I was afraid of dropping it if I tried more reps, so I ended with a smash. He lives. After that I pretty much know the game is over and start going all in until I get the kill.
So main things to work on.
Punish platform camping more effectively, using aerials at the right times, and at the right heights so as not to get punished for your pokes. Harder to land the grab on platforms so scaring them off of them is important.
Practice the chaingrabs. Get them faster and more consistent. Make your cging good enough that people actually fear it.
Learn what beats each move/approach that the characters you intend to use ICs against have. (Wolf's back air, Marth's fair, Metaknight's tornado, Wario's dair, etc)
I also didn't really see you using desynchs. If you can't, learn how. Even just one or 2 simple desynchs will suffice. I usually stick to just the dash dance or pivot desynchs, which are both easy enough to learn. If you know how, learn to integrate them more seemlessly into your play and WHEN to integrate them into your play (aka don't try to blizzard wall a diddy with a banana in hand).
And remember. An afraid opponent is way easier to beat than a confident one.
Obviously I can't judge your reading ability or mixup game vs a cpu. But here's the stuff I noticed.
First thing, pretty easy to fix. When you are uairing the opponent on the platform, you are jumping up past the platform and exposing yourself. Shorthop and do the aerial so that you don't leave yourself as susceptible to a followup attack. This is very important. Otherwise people can just spotdodge your aerial and punish you with dsmash or something. If they know they can do this, they no longer fear the platforms, and you are screwed. You need them to be afraid to stand on them. Uair correctly. Also, use nairs at low percents to go for the sheild push-> dash grab out of the air or IB reset->grab. (on the characters it works on)
Learn to buffer your throws, you were going very slowly, and a half decent masher would render your cg virtually useless at that speed and they wont be afraid of it.
Along the same lines, you kept sliding, which is ok occasionally, and is better than dropping the grab. But when it happens THAT often it means that you really need to work on what I'm going to call finger discipline. Being able to move your thumb (or whatever other fingers you may use for the analog stick if you're some freak like Hylian) consistently and confidently the correct distance in the correct time frame. It looks like your finger is probably holding the direction of the throw too long or you're moving it from one side to the other too quick/slowly or something. And the fact that it happens maybe half the time means your finger motion is not consistent. Once you train your finger to do the same thing every time you will see an extreme reduction in those sliding moments.
Work on your spacing. You kept leaving yourself open within squirtle's attack range and got punished for it repeatedly. you want to continually remain just outside of it until you see your chance to punish endlag for an attack/make a read on what they will do next/etc, or dash in then out to bait something.
Know what options your opponent has, and how to beat them. (has to do with previous point) You can pivotgrab squirtle out of literally ANYTHING he can approach with. Remember this. For other characters you will be need to wait for the powersheild punish on certain moves. If you learn what you can do in response to each move before the match even starts, then you will have a clearly defined flow chart you can use in response to their patterns of attacks/approaches. vs squirtle, I literally just sit there desynched IBing (to force an approach)/blizzarding until he approaches. Then on their first approach in range, you go for the pivograb. If you get them with it, excellent. Kill them. Now they will be required to approach even more, yet they'll be significantly more afraid to do so. You want this. It is how we win.
That is another reason to make your cgs more consistent/fast. I've had many people tell me they often try a stupid aggro approach early on vs an ICs they haven't played before to see if they need to worry about their cging abilities. If you drop it, or do it at a speed which allows them to mash, then you're already done. They wont be afraid and will tear you to shreds. The stock you get from the cg isn't why you need it. It's the fear that your opponent's knowledge of it causes.
Fear hurts more than chaingrabs.
Now, say they get out of range in time and you don't get the grab, or you land a pivotgrab and now they know. The next time you THINK you can get the pivotgrab on the player from their approach, just sheild and see what they do. If they airdodge away or stay out of range instead of pushing in with their aerial or whatever, odds are they are trying to bait you into the pivotgrab so they can punish. This is what smart players will do. You can respond in one of 2 ways.
One is by running after them and calling their approach bluff with aerial punishes or grabbing them in retreat if you're able. The other is to just let them attempt to bait a few times. Then you play the guessing game. They are going to have to put themselves at risk and go for a hit eventually. If you aren't biting on the bait that means they are going to have to risk actually going in to harms way occasionally to hit you. This is great for us. It essentially puts us in a situation where you either guess right, and get their stock. Or guess wrong and lose ~15-25%. This means they have to win the reading game at somewhere around a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio just to stay even with you. I'll take those odds any day.
But again, this is assuming you can get the kill off of the grab.
Practice, practice, practice. I started playing ICs as a secondary as well. However this was after I had been maining pika for over a year, so I no longer needed to practice my main's tech skill much, it was all second nature. I practiced with my "secondary" ICs ~10x as often as I practiced with pika. This is what is required if you want to get decent with this extremely technical character. A lot of times people start with them as a secondary, but because of all the time they put in and the improvement they see as a result, switch to maining them.
If you don't practice, then nobody decent will end up being afraid of your ICs and you've already lost with them before the countdown to the game starts on the screen.
Everything I said about Squirtle can be applied to a lot of other characters btw. Wario being one of them. Here is a match which I think demonstrates a lot of what I'm saying. Notice how on the beginning the Wario is staying on the platform. I respond by safely uairing him through it without exposing myself like I mentioned earlier. Using this strategy correctly, I can essentially just keep dealing damage to him slowly but steadily with virtually no risk of taking damage back at all. Notice how I'm going for the uairs only when he's landing, or poking up just as he jumps. These are the times which he is least likely to be able to punish the poking. A landing opponent is a vulnerable opponent. Learning how to punish landings with ICs both on platforms and on the main stage is absolutely essential. Make them afraid to land, and they'll do stupid, habitual, and in turn predictable things out of fear.
It doesn't take long for the Wario to see that he can't win while just jumping around on the platform. All that's happening is he's taking damage and not able to deal any back through my safe poking. Now he has to come down from the platform to try to get a lead on me somehow. You see me go for a few pivotgrabs as he attempts to find a way in. He stays out of range, but he eventually makes a mistake and mis-spaces a landing. Everyone screws up eventually. All you have to do is keep playing safe and wait. I get the grab and kill him.
On his next stock you see him attempting to come down and getting punished a few times. Then I **** up a pivot grab input and put myself at the edge of the stage. Which takes away my pivotgrab option. The wario sees this chance and moves in. I make a mistake and drop my shield which allows him to separate me. He doesn't capitalize as much as he could have, but like I said, if he gets in then you lose maybe 30ish percent. If I get in, it should be way more. The reads:stock ratio favors me heavily. So I don't sweat the minor setback. Once I get nana back I run to a safe position and begin establishing stage control with Ice blocks. I see him use a grounded get up option and go for the Ice block chaser grab. At this point I **** up the grab after a few reps (cging wario on YI is not my forte
). Notice how he immediately starts playing more aggressive and less afraid. Luckily he ****s up and lands poorly before he got too much momentum. But if he had been playing smarter aggro there he could have done a lot more damage. After I kill him with that cg he starts trying aerial approaches over and over. He hits with one or two. But I know that pivotgrab will beat every one of his aerials. So I dash back and look for him to come after me with another aerial (he hit with the last one, stands to reason he would try again). free grab because I knew how to beat all his aerial options. I try to end early since as you can see, I was not confident in my cging on wario with that curvy floor. I was afraid of dropping it if I tried more reps, so I ended with a smash. He lives. After that I pretty much know the game is over and start going all in until I get the kill.
So main things to work on.
Punish platform camping more effectively, using aerials at the right times, and at the right heights so as not to get punished for your pokes. Harder to land the grab on platforms so scaring them off of them is important.
Practice the chaingrabs. Get them faster and more consistent. Make your cging good enough that people actually fear it.
Learn what beats each move/approach that the characters you intend to use ICs against have. (Wolf's back air, Marth's fair, Metaknight's tornado, Wario's dair, etc)
I also didn't really see you using desynchs. If you can't, learn how. Even just one or 2 simple desynchs will suffice. I usually stick to just the dash dance or pivot desynchs, which are both easy enough to learn. If you know how, learn to integrate them more seemlessly into your play and WHEN to integrate them into your play (aka don't try to blizzard wall a diddy with a banana in hand).
And remember. An afraid opponent is way easier to beat than a confident one.
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
Roller.
That might be the best post I've ever seen.
That might be the best post I've ever seen.
Amazing stuff Roller. I'm hosting a smashfest this weekend and we will be having a small singles event so I might actually get some videos this time. If you can make something similar to critique my matches, you can have my babies.
Ruinn
Smash Ace
Pretty much wht the other two said, thanks for the extremely detailed post, I'll work on what needs to be worked on, thanks a ton!
Ruinn
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKFRpWFbkI8
alright, is this a fast enough cg? ive been practicing alot .-.
alright, is this a fast enough cg? ive been practicing alot .-.
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
Yes.
You charged a wee bit long on the KO but if you CG that fast, you should never see anyone that can escape, I don't think.
Roller
Smash Legend
I don't think the starting fthrows were buffered, so it's possible a very good masher could escape there. But other than that, it looked pretty solid to me. Certainly a great improvement. Just work on getting it that fast on every character.
Ruinn
Smash Ace
I can only get it that fast with gaw >_<
and yeah, thats my main worry. The first two fthrows. but I'll keep practicing, thanks
and yeah, thats my main worry. The first two fthrows. but I'll keep practicing, thanks
Roller
Smash Legend
For what it's worth, I do d-throw->dthrow or dthrow->fthrow (depending on char) to start. If you want to try that method on some characters. But do whatever is easiest for you.
Ruinn
Smash Ace
I'll try it, also, good job almost beating meek at phoenix saga! I heard he timed you out game 3 bummer =(
Roller
Smash Legend
lol, I 3 stocked him game 1... Then bad things happened.
I got the grab on his last stock at 40%, but it was at the edge, so I had to wait for the bthrow and he instant mashed out. =/
I got the grab on his last stock at 40%, but it was at the edge, so I had to wait for the bthrow and he instant mashed out. =/
You don't actually have to wait in that situation. Bthrow and run towards the center of the stage and pivot grab. Helps a ton for grabs at the edge.
Roller
Smash Legend
Yeah, solid advice. I've noticed Vinnie doing it recently. I can only do it on lightweights as of right now though. =/
I'll definitely be working on that for the future.
EDIT: Wait. That works if nana has the opponent at the edge. But I had dash grabbed him with popo. I'm pretty sure I couldn't buffer that, since nana was still in her grab animation. Any ideas on what should be done in this scenario? The best I can think of is to just buffer d/f throw->spike like vinnie seems to do fairly often in that situation.
I'll definitely be working on that for the future.
EDIT: Wait. That works if nana has the opponent at the edge. But I had dash grabbed him with popo. I'm pretty sure I couldn't buffer that, since nana was still in her grab animation. Any ideas on what should be done in this scenario? The best I can think of is to just buffer d/f throw->spike like vinnie seems to do fairly often in that situation.
Can I get some feedback on some matches plz? Any advice would be appreciated.
vs. MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgyztPcoScs&list=UUGd50MIe_ppuuCASo54sAfA&index=1&feature=plcp
vs. ROB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCPKSe07imE&list=UUGd50MIe_ppuuCASo54sAfA&index=2&feature=plcp
Thanks!
vs. MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgyztPcoScs&list=UUGd50MIe_ppuuCASo54sAfA&index=1&feature=plcp
vs. ROB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCPKSe07imE&list=UUGd50MIe_ppuuCASo54sAfA&index=2&feature=plcp
Thanks!
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
vs MK
The only reason you lost your first stock so easily is because you used your second jump when he approached you off stage. Remember to NEVER panic when MK is in your face like that, most MKs will punk out and back off anyway, which is just what he did after he dair'd you so always remember to save your second jump.
vs Rob
You really showed that you were afraid of Down Smash by hesitating to grab him. I know that feeling, but you need to just go for it faster instead of dropping shield so much. You can DI out of his Dsmash most of the time if you hold up on the control stick. You dont have to Dash grab when Smobbling, just do an Fsmash on the control stick and walk towards him.
Kinda tired, gonna write more later, I guess.
The only reason you lost your first stock so easily is because you used your second jump when he approached you off stage. Remember to NEVER panic when MK is in your face like that, most MKs will punk out and back off anyway, which is just what he did after he dair'd you so always remember to save your second jump.
vs Rob
You really showed that you were afraid of Down Smash by hesitating to grab him. I know that feeling, but you need to just go for it faster instead of dropping shield so much. You can DI out of his Dsmash most of the time if you hold up on the control stick. You dont have to Dash grab when Smobbling, just do an Fsmash on the control stick and walk towards him.
Kinda tired, gonna write more later, I guess.
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
In this scenario, are there characters that P d-throw -> N footstool -> P d-tilt would guarantee a gimp on? Such as Marth or someone with a similar recovery?
Thanks for the advice.
Yeah idk what to do about robs Dsmash. It just comes out so fast and it separates popo and nana perfectly if you don't sdi at all -_- I normally bait spot dodges and punish with a grab but that Dsmash just comes out too quick. As for smobbling everytime I try to just walk and regrab they always fly out of popo's grab. Do I need to have nana hit them with the smash first or have popo grab then have nana smash? Also what smash is better for smobbling Usmash or Fsmash?
Thanks!
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
F-Smash, because you want U-Smash to be fresh when you kill.
I suppose if you kill with F-Smash, then U-Smash would be better.
nanas moves don't go on the decay list, so if I use nana's Usmash 10 times in a row it will still be fresh for the kill.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Fsmash > Upsmash > Dsmash. Fsmash does more damage than UpSmash, and Dsmash only does more damage if both hits connect, which I don't account for ever, seeing as my next move thereafter is Dthrow to keep them from mashing. I think you need to connect the smash before you regrab. Lux needs to look into the science of Smobbling really.
Vs Rob's Dsmash, you just have to prepare yourself for it possibly coming ahead of time, so as long as Rob stays on the ground, practice just holding up. Tilt your shield upwards too, since at that point, even if it can shield poke, you'll just fall out before the last hit. (Unless it pokes on like the second to last hit.)
@ Saint, yeah Nana's moves don't count toward the stale counter.
Vs Rob's Dsmash, you just have to prepare yourself for it possibly coming ahead of time, so as long as Rob stays on the ground, practice just holding up. Tilt your shield upwards too, since at that point, even if it can shield poke, you'll just fall out before the last hit. (Unless it pokes on like the second to last hit.)
@ Saint, yeah Nana's moves don't count toward the stale counter.
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
.....uhhhhh isn't smobbling...
P b-throw (or whatever throw) -> Nana footstool -> P F-smash -> N-regrab -> N-d-throw -> P Regrab repeat?
no its P b-throw > N footstool > P IB > N smash > P grab (optional cg at the end to keep them from mashing out)
Also I tested the smobbling thing and the smash does have to connect first.
Roller
Smash Legend
^ this post is correct.