The Official Ice Climbers' Video Thread

[Rubberbandman]

Thanks Prawn <3, I'll take any critique you can give me.

 

[B0NK]

In the 2nd match I just noticed a simple read that was bugging me. As you set up desynch walls I was wondering why after the first time he challenged you wall, why you didn't do a more effective punish the next few times he kept challenging.

You continued to use blizzard when you could have net a pivot grab or a f-smash instead. Simply because he was going to challenge your wall regardless.

So like Prawn suggested using desynchs to make him do stupid mistakes, that would have been an opportunity.

Since he's just so aggressive, it's simply would work since you also had the platform protecting you from his b-air.

Other things is how he killed you every time was by baiting an airdodge or down air. Mix it up more than that, and also airdodge his actual attacks, not his baits =P And also making us of b-air as well ^_^

Just good advice for any player, watch for how you got KO the last stock during the match so you can avoid having it happen again. What does that do? It means that your opponent will have to find a new way to kill you, which gives you more time to figure them out and makes you much harder to kill.

Also it's sonic, so don't react with spotdodges when he isn't coming at you and just charging, same with better shield use. Better shield use is something every IC needs anyway =)

 

[Prawn]

I meant sh synced blizz when they're on the edge

 

[DeLux]

Ah yes, my obligatory "Put this up so that Lux will give me my pages of critique post."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sj7Ds5d4j0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpBeLeKCXEg

Those are the 2 games I went Icies.

Expect me to post up some friendlies of me vs Kadaj sometime soon.

Game 1:

On a personal note, I liked to play this matchup desynced because IBs/Blizzard really kills Sonics approach game (because he's fast as **** on the ground, but slow as **** in the air).

I notice you are doing a 9B style zone read. However, imo this doesn't work as well against Sonic simply because he can cancel dash at any point in time. The 9B Zone Read from what I understand is dependent on Dash length if your opponent is on the ground, and Air speed if your opponent is in the air. IMO, a superior strategy is to zone specials with Nana while leaving Popo free to IPG. I've been doing this to Trent lately when we've been playing, and it's been giving me some great success in the matchup now that I've bothered to learn it lol

- Go Tripless on the CGs, and Don't drop it there. You should be a stock ahead, which usually means you win the match against Sonic if you're zoning correctly. The first stock is nearly as important as the last.

- 21 seconds in - If he's in the air behind you within Bair range while you are in shield, don't drop your shield until he's in non-auto cancel range. That zoning trick he's doing is a frame trap. I notice Wolf's do this a lot with their Bair as well. Keep in mind the platform position. You can preemptively throw out an uair to make sure he can't run off the platform and Bair. As a zoning tool, especially on the Smashville moving platform.

- 24 seconds in - As tempting as it is, LD5 is not a good desync option. Off stage blizzard is a no no

- You went to a Desync Wall immediately at the start of the second stock, and then stopped. I'm not sure if there was a purpose for putting a wall up early, and then stopping. Or why you stopped putting a wall up. I don't understand the purpose and how it fits into the gameplan

- When you are walling against Sonic, imo Aerial IB is not a good option because he's so fast he can run underneath and break the wall. IBs on the ground can zone out a dashing opponent. In the air, they don't really help you if the opponent is THIS fast. It's good against other characters, but not this one.

- You can prevent sour spotting your Kill moves out of CG by doing the tripless CG and/or doing one of my finishers I listed in the thread. So far you've given him back two stocks in this set.

- Auto Cancel Dair as a zoning option is great sometimes, as long as you don't land where they are throwing an fsmash lol

- He's dash attacked you on landing like 5 times in a row now, whether it's safe or not. If I noticed this, the first thing I'm doing when I get Nana back is IPG on landing to see if I can't bait that dash attack

- You full hopped a blizzard wall at the start of stock 3 and got punished for it

- Why would you go for a spike at 2:27? You just gave him a 3rd stock back in the match

- That was a GREAT IB at 2:47 btw. I try to do that all the time but never quite as perfect as that. I don't know if you planned it that way, but nice

- You can't DSG a spaced Sonic Bair unless you have ungodly ISSDI. You tried to do it so many times that you get shield poked. Be conscious of your shield size

- You then tried to bait him with Bair and Empty short hops. Probably not the greatest idea since he's sooooo fast.


Game Two:

- The Blizzard Trap at 10 Seconds probably should have been a grab. At least this early, I would have gone for a grab since Sonic really doesn't have a great Kill Nana super early by abusing CPU tactic that I know of. Even if it didn't connect, the reward of being a stock up early would have made me bite for a grab right there.

- Man, I wish I could get Ftilt to Grab like that I'd actually use Ftilt at that point lol

- You CG'd too fast right there, which is why you dropped it

- You jabbed a super easy grab punish at 31 seconds

- You've gone back to the 9B zoning read. I'm not sure why you did when that was what was losing you the game early in game 1 and you were getting better success desynced later on, but I'm obviously biased towards one style more than another so don't listen to me lol

- At 1:09 on that grab where Nana gets clipped, start mashing shield. Nana will *most likely* tech and you can complete the CG

- You blizzard wall during invincibility and I'm not sure exactly why since there really isn't need to zone when you're invincible. At least throw out an IB that let's you abuse the invincibility, rather than leaving you vulnerable after it's gone

- I don't know how I feel about that Blizzard Wall. If it works, it works. It might be a full hop variant that I might try since I rarely full hop blizzard unless I know it'll hit/zone

- You need to charge Nana smashes a little or else that have that weird throw super armor property and they don't die

- I've stolen that trap you just did out of his respawn btw. Freaking genius. You just got a little excited and grabbed too early.

- If they are directly above you, you don't have to keep blizzard walling with Nana. She can uair as well. That's how you lost Nana this stock

- You just unnecessarily squalled onto stage as sopo three times in a row. Squall should be a last resort or mixup, not the primary option imo

- You desynced at 5:46 when he was literally right above you


TLDR: You need to IPG more on rogue dash attacks. Gotta formulate a gameplan, because you kept bouncing between 9B and desync without really any reason that I could see.

 

[Smoom77]

Can you critique my videos like that?

 

[DeLux]

Yeah, I do it on request if I have time

 

[Prawn]

im gonna mm D1AOS or speed when I get the chance, ive only played a few sonics from NY and RI. I'd like to see how I'd do.

 

[Prawn]

also desyncing vs sonic is good but he can kind of go right through it even if you're safe. you need to just bait with it a lot if its even/you're winning.

 

[Smoom77]

I would MM too.

 

[Prawn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj6S-6bUZZ8&feature=feedu

me getting ***** :/

give me advice on how to beat him tomorrow?

P.S. wtf at my pasty white *** at the beginning and end

edit: i know i chose a bad stage and ive gotten a habit of practicing the snake grab for 20 mins before i play them and not resort to spike :[

 

[Rubberbandman]

omg, you took so much unnecessary damage just from you not wanting to shield grenades just being around you. Sometimes the best action Bizkit could have taken after grenades would be to Dash attack/Dacus so it would have been much safer just to shield it. Be aware of when you have grenades in your hand and C4's around. Desynch and have nana throw an ice block to force him to drop the nade as soon as he pulls them, then you have much more freedom of movement afterwards.

 

[Prawn]

loool on lylat i cant even see the grenades :[

 

[Smoom77]

yeh...I don't like tilty stages against Snake. no YI or LC.

 

[Prawn]

yeah thats what ive come to conclude

 

[DeLux]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knNBXw3HNdU

I'm reworking my gameplan for the TL matchup

I thought I made the correct changes from this set in order to swing the matchup in my favor, but I ended up doing worse the next time I played MJG in tourney. So rather than work off of those new sets where I do worse, I'm going to spin the remix off of this one and see

I have a new plan of attack in mind, but I'm starting to feel like I'm not technically proficient enough to execute it fully, so I'd like a fall back plan that's not as technical and loosely based off what I have already. Critique and maybe i can get some new ideas.


And Excel, I haven't forgotten about you yet, Just been super busy with work and stuff

 

[Smoom77]

I'll critique your match tonight if that's ok with you Lux.

 

[Prawn]

my first question is how do you get to smashville with unity ruleset


i strike:
caste siege, ps1

they strike:
fd, sv, their choice of lylat or yi

then we have to choose BF or either lylat/yi and those are all harder vs tl then sv imo


am i wrong here? are these stages better?


edit: also seems like you're running into a lot of stuff stupidly -_- you can kinda zone and slap him with ice blocks and stuff if hes running away. i dunno seems like youre fishing for the grab

 

[DeLux]

You can't just Auto Strike stages

Castle Siege is probably tied for our best stage in the matchup with FD

I think I struck PS1 and BF. He struck CS1, YI, FD. And I had to choose between SV and LC but I might be mistaken

 

[Prawn]

Is siege actually good vs TL

 

[DeLux]

Yes.

Stage 1 is small and if you focus on damage you should come away with the lead. It's super easy to get under TL to Uair.

Stage 2 protect from projectiles almost completely. If you're ahead by a substantial amount, you can turn it into your own version of FD.

Stage 3 is like tilty FD.

Step 1: Do Damage
Step 2: Wait
Step 3: Grab

MJG banned it against me the next time we played

 

[Prawn]

interesting.

 

[B0NK]

I always try to strike to YI against TL, probably because I like that stage in general.

But in that match-up you can force TL to have to fight you under the platform on YI if you have the lead. (Getting that "like FD" affect DeLux mentioned)

Basically, the bombs can't be thrown down from above the platform, and if he tries to camp you from the edge, you just go to the other edge and wait. So when he's above the platform, you're below it, and if he's near the ledge your at the other edge. If you have the lead you are pretty much circle camping him.

If he's under the platform, then you are fighting on your terms, and where you want him.

I also like frigate for the same reason, aka the 2nd stage transformation. And Frigate is bad for TL stage in general. And I like smaller stages against TL.

@DeLux: Let MJG strike first so you have a better chance to get YI game one? Depends on your stage preference.

And also possibly look into frigate or YI as a possible counterpick since he's banning castle on you? Just something to think about.

 

[Prawn]

yoshis island is bad vs TL imo


he gets a dsmash and on the slanted plat and you get ***** lol i dont like it but maybe i should try.

 

[B0NK]

Lol that D-smash is a gimmick, you just have to watch for it.

And if he misses the d-smash it's a grab. It's like something you fall for once, after that it loses it's effectiveness =P

It's personal preference really, I just really like YI as a stage in general ^_^

 

[DeLux]

MJG strikes YI first lol. He hates the stage. Over a 5 game set against a TL, I'd probably try to get to 2/3 of FD, CS, and YI. The one not used (most likely FD) got banned. But that's my CP plan.

The Dsmash gimmick is the bane of my existence lol. But YI let's you Desync IB camp for days to force him in the air so it's a non issue (unless you're me who runs into it with a huge lead )

 

[Roller]

YI is great for us vs TL. I hadn't really thought about CS, because It seemed like TL would have an easier time timing us out there. But I'll definitely have to try it out.

 

[DeLux]

Actually, my video is an example of what NOT to do on CS.

The whole point is to play from ahead based off damage on the first stage. I dropped my grab and then had to play from behind the whole time.

 

[B0NK]

^^^That's really what I noticed, it's possible to comeback against TL. But you gotta slow it back down and not get aggressive, even then the time may catch up to you >.<

Not saying that's exactly what happen to you, but in the TL match-up in general ^_^

 

[DeLux]

Tear em apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3fafJvwvrM&feature=feedu

Start: If you spawn at that point on Frigate, don't start desync against a character with that much ground speed like Pikachu. It's unsafe

:15 - SDI up out of the Pikachu Dsmash. If you aerial dodge out of hit stun, you can Nana brake and she doesn't get hit by that thunder follow up

:28 - you dropped the CG because you started CGing too fast lol. Trust your hands

:33 - Instead of having a first instinct to shield against a dashing opponent, your first instinct ought to be to space away. If you do that, you're able to IPG or at least space. Shield is for if they are in the air. Especially pikachu where he gets stuffed by pivot grab

:58 - you had the pikachu in a solo squall lock. You could have grabbed with nana

lol Amazing Stage knowledge at 1:52

When you start loading the box with IBs and the Pika just waits, you can force him to approach by creeping foward slighlty with your IBs. There's a spot where if you IB, the momentum barely makes it go over the ramp and you set this super long frame trap on the stage. You don't have to be stationary with IB camping. It's a zoning tool, not a damage tool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By3PUOJK0wE&feature=feedu

I don't understand why you start the game IBing the wrong way :\

You go to fsmash as a punish almost as much as I do. On a lot of the frame trades, you could mix up between dash grab and run past your opponent and pivot grab.

:22 - Short hop IB is pretty unsafe at the range you were at. For the most part, IB's should be used to negate the Thunder jolt trade. If they are that close, you're better off giving up some stage or closing the gap depending on conditioning.

:36 - He committed to a Fair from like the top of the Empire Stage building without spacing it. You could always just run through him and pivot grab that. Shield grab isn't great when there's a superior option

QAC usually means free grab if you guess where they land with IPG.

At 1:14, you set up an interesting frame trap. As soon as you saw the Pikachu commit to dash, you should have immediately buffered a dash grab. You shouldn't be reading a frame trap on if IB hits. There is not enough hit stun to react to an IB hit on frame trap. You gotta react to what your opponent does before the IB to know if the IB hits or not.

At the start of his second stock, you desynced way too early. zoning tools don't work when they are invincible.

You had a solo dthrow CG while synced. Just keep using Dthrow. No reason at all to switch to fthrow because it's more mashable and it's what caused you to mess up

You sort of blew like 4 or 5 frame trap reads that would have won you the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIXCtuz3bZI&feature=feedu

You start by desync IBing. Which is fine, but you should do it under the platform to make Kirby over commit if he tries to aerial approach

You are nair walling. I don't know the kirby matchup that well, but I suspect Nair is beaten out by his Bair lol

At :45, Kirby committed to a dair. That should mean free grab

You had a free grab out of blizzard wall at :57 because he committed to fsmash

Don't Full hop blizzard wall onto platforms

Kinda got gayed at 2:02. If you're that low, squall is your only hope. Meteor cancel with jump and squallllllll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvfK8tQYlps

Tilt your shield up on tornado

You naired him out of shuttle loop early. At that positioning, you gotta make him commit to cancelling it or dying. If he cancels it, he gets grabbed

So far he's used 5 of his jumps and then nado'd every time. 3 times in a row. If you see this, on jump 5 THAT's when you can full hop blizzard to force a rogue drill rush

You fsmash away more free grabs lol

Squall is a recovery option so you aren't vulnerable to that stage spike shuttle loop



TLDR:

My biggest suggestion is to learn how to read your frame traps. That alone would make you two stock this player. Everything else are little things, but we gotta put stocks in the win column when they are free for us to take

 

[Roller]

ESAM vids should be added to OP.

 

[Smoom77]

Post them.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Kyuubee vids, add to the OP eventually Smoom.

All the following are friendlies.

9B
vs Suinoko (DDK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs-RPtMYgjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3y5oGJwl2c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjHSYER3d3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avMFy_vnrbc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRff3X8NHr8

vs Rakyawo (GW)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPVZN7KUC6c

The Game and Watch is really good imo~

 

[Y.B.O.]

Hey guys i would appreciate it if one of you could critize and analyse those two vids of mine i'm the ic-player.

Vids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSGAKqSCdtM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDf0-kE-kHo&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yslsCog_wjU&feature=related

Note: all matches are old but i want to be better

 

[Roller]

Those opponents were bad. Like. REALLY bad. Especially the metaknight. So it's hard to comment on how you can improve dealing with difficult situations. Since we didn't really see any. But what I can comment on are your chain grabs.

First of all, they should be faster. Anyone who knows how to mash properly will get out at that speed.

Second, stop trying to dthrow->fair->ice block reset them. There were plenty of times there (especially vs ) where you could have just dthrow-> [dthrow->bthrow] rinse/repeat. But you went for the janky chaingrab and it blew up in your face.

third, never do what you did last stock vs that again. EVER. Any metaknight player that dies in that situation should be euthanized. you have a 0->death chaingrab. Use it. Do not just grab him and attempt to kill him with a spike when you are on the middle of the smashville platform. Anyone with half a brain will just DI towards you into the platform and be fine. He had the worst possible DI there. Then attempted to recover with drill rush when he had the option to shuttle loop you. Get videos vs better players.

Mein Deutsch ist nicht perfekt, aber wenn dir hilfen mit verstehen nimmst, vielleicht kann ich hilfe.

 

[Vinnie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxXg_9A1OSM me vs adhd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFHwDS2988g me vs ally

 

[Rubberbandman]

yeah, we need to get Smoom to working on actually putting up the matches.

And I need to do some video dumps here as well.

 

[Smoom77]

The last tournament I went to, they got most of my matches up.

But unfortunately, the tournament was atleast a month ago.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I mean updating the op son.

 

[Myollnir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJooWVH-h68

Editing with other videos later.

Any advices? No comments about the CG plz D:

 

[DeLux]

Myo, you're doing it backwards on Battlefield

Go for Nairs at EARLY/LOW percents and Uairs at late percents. Not the other way around.

It should look like if only considering getting in damage from an aerial stand point:

0-20% - Nair > Ledge Slip > IB reset > Grab
20-45% - Weak/late hitbox Uair > Buffered Footstool > Get Up Chase > Grab read
45%-120% - Uair frame trap get damage in
120%-death - Fair/Bair read kills

Admittedly I generally play it safe and skip the footstool part, but it's possible for sure