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The Official Ice Climbers' Video Thread

Hylian

Hylian

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You can knock them off if they are shielding at the edge straight into a grab(forgo the IB because they can jump before they land if knocked out of their shield and you can just try to grab them out of the air for better results)

You also have the possibility of shield poking. Basically you are either going to get damage or a free grab. Uairs just give you damage so just use those when nair -> IB reset isn't possible anymore.
 
DeLux

DeLux

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Myo- if you can shield push them off, of course go for the nair (or even fair because it induces more shield slide)

But if you can't, Nair has knockback that pushes people into the air instead of sliding them into edge slip as the percents get higher. So even if you shield poked, you just lost your chance to get in more damage.
 
Cygnet

Cygnet

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Hi! (Is this where videos are critiqued?) I'm a really horrible beginner (whose main isn't ICs, but I'm trying to get them there....), but I'm trying to change that and eventually be slightly less horrible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HbBR_1F2k4&feature=feedu

I know I made a ton of IC-specific mistakes like dropping grabs, failing to do desynchs, and not using Blizzard walls against MK..... I guess I'm still thinking with a regular character mindset and not an IC one, but I hope I can get there eventually..... ;___;

Please help?

Thank you very much! :)
 
DarkFlameX

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sure, Im new to the thread, but Ill try and critique on the pros and cons to your vid (where you went wrong, could've done instead)
1. In the beginning of the video, you let nana get separated really easily, remember that nana is always your #1 priority, and you should protect her as much as possible. On the plus side, your sopo was able to go even with the other MK your entire first stock, got some really good grabs in and racked up %s, at that point, you always want to focus on smaller %s since sopo doesnt have many safe approaches (this includes attacks such as spaced bairs, uairs, jabs, blizzards, etc).
2. I noticed throughout the video, that MK's nados were eating you up constantly, this can be avoided through shield tilting. For the MK MU, shield tilting is absolutely vital and a necessity during nado pressure. When you tilt your shield, you can tech chase it through its final frames with rolls or spot dodge the last hit and get a free grab after words. Try pivot grabbing, you can pivot grab MK out of nado, pretty dandy if I do say so myself ;). I think you should also desync blizzard more since it stops MK's nado pretty easily.
3. You didnt force grabs, that's a GOOD thing :)! I try and stress to IC new comers that it's not all about cgs, focus on fighting your opponent, and grabbing only when your opponent makes an obvious mistake. At 3:24, solid grab, could've been punished a lot harder, maybe you were just nervous, but always d-throw like you did at 3:32 since it's easy to buffer and hard for the MK to escape from. You did a nice follow up right after, bthrow to dthrow is generally the better cg vs MK since he's light, and against MK, you might want to get used to getting that one down.
4. 4:13, nice punish on his spot dodge, just remember at higher levels of play, or against smarter MKs, they'll tend to shuttle loop out of pressure, you can anticipate it and follow up with a uair. At 4:25, I think you were going for a dash dance desync, just make sure that you're able to get desyncs down as quick and as safely as possible, since you messed up, MK was able to punish immediately after. Remember, ICs are easily separated, focus on not getting split up and avoid separation pressure. 4:43, unfortunate on your part for losing nana, what you COULD'VE done was input and airdodge that might saved nana's life. Just remember, there's 2 climbers, and whenever they're in sync'd range, you can input and control both of their actions.
Overall, you did a pretty good job using ICs, especially if you just recently picked them up. ICs are potentially one of the best characters in the game, they make a great secondary to pick up. Focus on nana protection and avoiding situations where you can get separated. Keep up the good work =)!
.
Cygnet said:
Hi! (Is this where videos are critiqued?) I'm a really horrible beginner (whose main isn't ICs, but I'm trying to get them there....), but I'm trying to change that and eventually be slightly less horrible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HbBR_1F2k4&feature=feedu

I know I made a ton of IC-specific mistakes like dropping grabs, failing to do desynchs, and not using Blizzard walls against MK..... I guess I'm still thinking with a regular character mindset and not an IC one, but I hope I can get there eventually..... ;___;

Please help?

Thank you very much! :)
Click to expand...
 
DarkFlameX

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hey guys, this will be my first post, i'm an upcoming IC main as I previously stated. This was my most recent tournament match, would anyone care to review them? Im open for constructive criticism

Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkW0tla95XI
Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUQGFSB7f0M
Game 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEIMenwMzgc
Game 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzef1tLEhcM

I feel like Im getting better each time, the only things I know I need to improve on is commitment and a couple of habits (dairing with ICs is one of them :p). D1aos would constantly wreck me in GFs, but ive made improvement since the last couple of tournaments. I seriously thought I had game 4 in the bag and couldve taken it to game 5 >.<'... but yeah, I'll be posting more tournament vids soon.
 
DeLux

DeLux

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Critique from watching the first 10 seconds of the first two videos:

Stop empty short hop baiting sonic early. He can't out camp you without a lead. There's absolutely no reason to tactically put yourself at a disadvantageous position to start the match.

This matchup is too nerve wracking for me :(

It's hard for me to critique it specifically because I play is drastically different so I'm not sure what exactly your movement intentions are throughout.
 
DarkFlameX

DarkFlameX

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lol, it's fine, yeah, sonic vs ICs is pretty nerve wracking whenever your opponent has the % lead, it's really hard for either side to regain the momentum/lead. It's a dead even MU, it comes down to who can out camp the other player. We win in terms of priority, but sonic is absolutely lethal in terms of ledge guarding and getting us out of our recovery. I advise solid reaction and if you're able to, anticipation/prediction. Sonic is too fast, and you'll probably never grab him unless from obvious mistakes. Like you were saying about me and empty short hops (thanks for pointing out that habit I didnt even realize I had), sonic feeds off of your commitment, so never commit to anything unless it's safe.
 
DeLux

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Desynced IBs on the ground means he can't run in and just attack though. You kinda sat and waited in situations where you had he half second you need to get an desynced IB out. For example, I like to flash the pivot grab early so they know they can't run in when I dash. So since they give me that space, I then use the dash (which they can't just barrel in on because of threat of pivot grab) + 19 frames start up time for LD1 out of forward initial dash. If you can't get a desynced IB out in time, you need to reevaluate your desync options. Every time you used a desync option, you used it like a couple times and then just stopped :\

I tried playing this matchup on reaction to Sonic and IPGing everything, but that didn't work for me. Ever since I've switched to option limitation via desync zoning, I've done tremendously better. I think there's video of me playing the sonic matchup with the precursor of how I now play the matchup somewhere online
 
Cygnet

Cygnet

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Thank you so much, DarkFlameX! =]

I usually tilt my shield against MK's nado..... does that mean that Nana also tilts her shield?

It's hard for me to know when Nana is really synced with you.... sometimes she's right next to you and then you do a desynced Belay! (Well, I don't know about you, but that happens to me.... T__T) I guess I should probably keep better track of Nana next time.

I guess I just gotta work on perfecting that tech skill.... how exactly do you get better at that? Is it just practice? It kinda seems like, if you can get it 50% of the time, practice will consist of getting it 50% of the time still and then afterwards, you're still at 50%..... is there a better way to practice other than repetition?

Thanks again! :)
 
Sieguest

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Continually doing something without evaluating what you do will never help. You have to be conscious of what you're doing when start "drilling and killing" stuff. If you get it wrong, ask WHY did you get it wrong. If you did it right, ask WHAT did you do differently from the times you did it wrong.

Practice is a great way to get better, but you need to be aware of how you practice. Afterward, teaching others is the best way to solidify your own proficiency with whatever you're doing.

...Posted way more than I wanted to.
 
Roller

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Just follow the grime...
Just approach with iceblocks, then uptilt when they phantasm. They clash and you get a free grab. If they don't phantasm and just keep lasering. Just run in and grab them. If they try to jab or fsmash or bair or dair or any type of physical attack just pivot/shield grab it. Don't drop grabs.

eezy peezy.

In class. Might find a good vid later if somebody else doesn't.
 
Supreme Dirt

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Aight.

Really gotta work on my consistency with grabs. Not playing Icies for two years kinda ruined it.
 
DarkFlameX

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imo, falco has little to nothing he can do to regain the lead in that MU, which is why it would be considerably in ICs favor. utilt works for the most part, I usually try and bait their phantasms out. but yeah, you can just power shield all of his lasers, and like roller said, Ice blocks are a great way to shut down his mobility.

Cygnet said:
Thank you so much, DarkFlameX! =]

I usually tilt my shield against MK's nado..... does that mean that Nana also tilts her shield?

It's hard for me to know when Nana is really synced with you.... sometimes she's right next to you and then you do a desynced Belay! (Well, I don't know about you, but that happens to me.... T__T) I guess I should probably keep better track of Nana next time.

I guess I just gotta work on perfecting that tech skill.... how exactly do you get better at that? Is it just practice? It kinda seems like, if you can get it 50% of the time, practice will consist of getting it 50% of the time still and then afterwards, you're still at 50%..... is there a better way to practice other than repetition?

Thanks again! :)
Click to expand...
yeah, nana will tilt her shield when you both are in sync.

usually whenever I feel as if Im desynced, (like in the air and offstage), I will try uairing and inputting a certain move to help them gain their sync again. youll probably get the feel for it when you start playing with them more often. but yeah, always make your woman (nana) your top priority ;)! and you will go far with them haha.

and yeah, practice makes perfect, keep at it. its good to be able to pull it off through practice, but try getting it perfected through tournament play and matches. and I guess one way to kind of help you get better at the timings is trying to pull an infinite with your eyes closed LOL. it actually helped me once XD
 
Attila the Hun

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Pertaining to those matches ya posted, Myollnir...

How do you do that CG without messing it up? And by that, I mean how do you do the back throw after the two f-throws? Do you buffer it, or..?

Nvm, that's just the no-trip CG, isn't it? Feelin' dumb.

Would you say it'd be better to learn that CG than stick to basic f-throw/b-throw?

That was damn fun to watch, btw. XD
 
DeLux

DeLux

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My CG IS the Fthrow > Bthrow :\

I don't understand the question
 
DeLux

DeLux

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I'm appalled that people call PBthrow > N D/F Throw the "Basic" CG when there isn't anything to indicate certain CGs are more difficult than others. If anything, I'd argue mine is easier since I'm (and anyone else should be) able to reliably do it on the entire cast using only visual cues without "knowing" or practicing the CG beforehand. That's not something that really could be done with a PBthrow since that's always been a "by feel" sort of thing imo.
 
Roller

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Just follow the grime...
number of inputs in any given frame window maybe? idk. Also, relying on the comfort of muscle memory, over the exhaustion of the constant vigilance required for the utilization of visual clues during each rep is better for me.
 
DeLux

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Roller said:
number of inputs in any given frame window maybe? idk. Also, relying on the comfort of muscle memory, over the exhaustion of the constant vigilance required for the utilization of visual clues during each rep is better for me.
Click to expand...
You misinterpreted what I said.

Bthrow > Dthrow/Fthrow = The Dthrow/Fthrow can be done by feel OR visual cue. The Bthrow can be done by feel

Fthrow > Bthrow = The Fthrow can be done by feel OR visual cue. The Bthrow can be done by feel OR visual cue.
 
BadKarma

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Roller

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Just follow the grime...
Karma, tbh, you play the mu a lot like I do. And if you didn't drop the grabs you would have won that. I have been practicing CGing snake a lotttt for the past few weeks. (buffered dthrow->dthrow) it has helped so much. I've also been practicing CGing him and throwing away grenades in the middle of the CG. Like, for hours. If you do this, the mu gets a LOT easier.

The only real comment I have on your playstyle is use more desynched IB-> IB chaser approaches.




Roller :icsbrawl: vs L_Cancel :olimarbrawl: WF's

2 games weren't saved. one of them was on rc and wouldn't have helped much for critique anyway.

I'm still kicking myself for dropping grabs and allowing the reverse 3 game 1. It cost me the set. -__-

Please give any and all critique/advice. Thank you! n_n
 
BadKarma

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Roller said:
Karma, tbh, you play the mu a lot like I do. And if you didn't drop the grabs you would have won that. I have been practicing CGing snake a lotttt for the past few weeks. (buffered dthrow->dthrow) it has helped so much. I've also been practicing CGing him and throwing away grenades in the middle of the CG. Like, for hours. If you do this, the mu gets a LOT easier.

The only real comment I have on your playstyle is use more desynched IB-> IB chaser approaches.




Roller :icsbrawl: vs L_Cancel :olimarbrawl: WF's

2 games weren't saved. one of them was on rc and wouldn't have helped much for critique anyway.

I'm still kicking myself for dropping grabs and allowing the reverse 3 game 1. It cost me the set. -__-

Please give any and all critique/advice. Thank you! n_n
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice

For the olimar mu try blizzard wall for pressuring. Blizzard wall to ib chasser is a good mix up. When you were on the ledge you jumped almost every time so it started getting kinda predictable. When he was charging a smash you tended to try to air dodge into him alot and alot of the time you got hit, if you blizzard when your landing and he's charging a smash it will stop his smash and he can't really do any thing about it.

for the most part you played very well, your cg throws me off alot too lol, I'm used to buffering the Fthrow to make it go faster.
 
Roller

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Just follow the grime...
Thanks for le return advice. =]

And NOW for something entirely different.

9B won a tourney recently, vids just got put up.


WSF2 9B vs Rain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeiT5FwT9mI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdnlwkzZeFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHFdTvJSkjE

WF 9B vs Masashi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmNoAduzP20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOHp0dnq21I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOHp0dnq21I


Final 9B vs SLS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET7GGFwq818
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1DGV1wozCQ

Japan has definitely gotten better at the ICs matchup. Way better than Europe at any rate... XD
He got some lucky brakes to say the least.

Kakera got 5th at another recent tourney, no vids from him. ;;
 
BadKarma

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omg 9B wrecking house he's so patient. Nair to IB on BF too good I have to learn this.
And yes I agree japan is waaayy better at the IC's mu. Probably since theres so many amazing ic players there XD
 
Roller

Roller

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Just follow the grime...
DeLux

DeLux

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lain why are you using blizzard when Diddy has a banana in hand :(

I DON'T GET ITTTTT
 
Rubberbandman

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My biggest question is why do you guys keep running up to snake in his Ftilt/grab range? For me that just seems like straight up suicide.

Every time I do that around here I get ****ed up.
 
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