Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
All the scrubs in utah think sonic is a god cuz of x lol
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The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Shaya
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adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Actually a lot of good players believe that it curves back at high levels of play becoming pretty good again.That's the whole thing Z'zgashi. people think the ratios are a certain way because of the fact that they've had experiences that are different than others. someone extrmeely smart playing a bunch of scrubs could think that mkf is pretty good for CF, just because they're too smart.
I disagree, but might as well point it out.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
Ike is a clear cut above the rest of low tier and it's a bit of a slap in the face to see someone like Lucas who has virtually no representation above him.
If a character (I won't say who!) has mid tier level match-up ratios (beating almost all of low tier, averaging even match-ups with mid tier and losing 4-6 to high/top) and has mid tier level representation (again, beating out all of low tier and usually several mid tier characters) then what tier is that character?
Hint: It's not low.
Purple
Hi guys!
Thank you for the point out
. Regardless of what people say, not every top level player thinks evenly, and not every level-headed player gives information about matchups.So blatantly wrong.
Yoshi gets ***** by virtually everyone in top and high tier with the exception of Wario.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
@Yagami: its low because otherwise pros wouldn't be able to get free money from low tier tournaments with him
Purple
Hi guys!
That's what I'm saying though, I don't think all of those ratios are correct for ike. :/ (except for snake, because there is evidence of it being true).
The problem you have is that each character doesn't have the same intelligent players. I know that sounds mean, but we know that San is incredibly smart. Ally is extremely smart, M2K is extremely smart, etc. etc.
Yagami, do you remember when reflex used lucas and won tournaments with him? Because that did happen (honestly, it was a long while ago, so it might not be so valid, but you get the idea)
Reflex is an extremely smart player, if he was to pick up any character and begin winning tournaments with that character. It shows what that character can do to full (or almost full) potential. Who do you know currently in the Lucas game that's considered an extremely smart player, and exposes him(her)self to the smash community strongly? No one to your knowledge right?
Does that make lucas any worse because no one can show the community what lucas has?
Not at all.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
ninjalink beat lain with lucas @.@
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
Lain also dropped a ridiculous number of grabs in that match.
Just saying.
Just saying.
Purple
Hi guys!
So lucas has one matchup giving him his placing? :/
Lucas is also one of the hardest characters to CG with ICs.
No, it's one of his best high tier MU's though.
Purple
Hi guys!
Ike has a decent MU on snake iirc.
GwJ
Smash Hero
I just choked on my cereal from laughter.
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
Not really relevant, but okay.
GwJ
Smash Hero
It is ever so slightly. Technically, it shouldn't really be taken into consideration too much since it's not impossible, it's just hard. It's important to note though.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
If you 4-6 is decent, yes.
And ICs.
And Diddy.
And Wario.
And G&W.
And Lucario.
And those MUs in that chart/link are correct. Some of them like Olimar we used to have as being worse, but then they began to change their mind, and we basically followed suit with our own reasoning.
Ike quite frankly isn't Low Tier. Our MUs say otherwise and our Rep/Results say otherwise. The main thing keeping Ike in Low Tier are a few stupid people who think Ike is third worse in the game. I know at least one of them used to be in the BBR until he quit smashboards, but it wouldn't surprise me if he influenced several other people, hence Ike being below Lucas for no reason at all. Heck, when I asked about it when this tier list first game out, the answer I got was that a few people from the EC voted Ike rather low.
Ike should be one tier up, somewhere around the Sonic/PT/Ness area.
solecalibur
Smash Master
its because he is fat isnt it?
I always thought lucario was
(and yes this does effect MUs and character placings etc as the players are still human)
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
I'm saying it's not relevant to point out in the case of that match between Lain and NL. Lain wasn't just dropping a lot of CGs, he was dropping every single one. And then he did the same thing against Logic's Olimar.
So yeah, I think it's safe to say it's more of Lain being severely off his game than "Lucas is hard to CG."
So yeah, I think it's safe to say it's more of Lain being severely off his game than "Lucas is hard to CG."
Lain isn't really the same **** player he was 1-2 years ago.
Teh Future
Smash Master
Purple
Hi guys!
lol xD. I didn't really explain why I said that. Lucas has a good MU on IC. Ike does on Snake. What's your point?
4-6 is only minor disadvantage. That really means if you can outsmart your opponent, you have a PRETTY good chance of winning the set.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Yoshi has a good mu on snake and wario, beats ICies, and does better than most against mk (we have a cg -> fair spike, plus we can grab him outta whorenado well). The only top tier that gives him real problems is marth. He also doms most low tiers.
Purple
Hi guys!
Does he really..
Apparently yoshi has a problem against luigi from scatz's (bigman40)'s experience.
Snake also gives him trouble.
If he really had such good matchups against low tiers, people who main him should've dominated the low tier tournaments that San has entered right?
btw i'm bein serious about the questions, i'm quite curious about yoshi's MU's
Apparently yoshi has a problem against luigi from scatz's (bigman40)'s experience.
Snake also gives him trouble.
If he really had such good matchups against low tiers, people who main him should've dominated the low tier tournaments that San has entered right?
btw i'm bein serious about the questions, i'm quite curious about yoshi's MU's
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
And with weegee, yeah a little, he out prioritizes us most of the time (big surprise) but we can camp him very well and our ground game is much better than his. We can also gimp him quite easily. Overall its pretty even cuz his air game > ours and that is a big part of our offense.
He actually does decent against snake. We out camp him easily and have a cg on him. All we have to do is watch out for tilts and not chew on his nades. Overall its 60:40 or 55:45 Snakes favor.
Also there are only 10 or so total yoshi mains that exist so thats why we never place lol.
bigman40
Smash Master
I have never played Biglou in tourney yet, and he's a better player than me (it's the reason why he's coaching me). He's much different to play against than most people too. He doesn't camp and just forces mistakes from people, so it wouldn't be the same if I were to play someone that does camp.
Anyways, Yoshi has losing matchups throughout the cast (save for a handful that are bad and some that he wins in), but most are manageable unless it comes down to last hit wins.
Anyways, Yoshi has losing matchups throughout the cast (save for a handful that are bad and some that he wins in), but most are manageable unless it comes down to last hit wins.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
The only chars who really **** us (imo) are tink, samus, lucario, and wolf
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Take Lucario outta there. It's not that bad.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
I think he is, his effing aura goes through all our airs and none of our gimmicks work... plus his aura balls are faster and beat out our eggs so camping is harder... and he gets stronger the more we hurt him and we dont have a reliable kill move on him
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Don't fight him head on in the air. Bait and punish. Use Anti-Air. I don't care about Aura Sphere, learn to camp against him properly. We can kill him just fine. It can be JUST as hard for him to land the kill move on us as it is for us to kill him. It's even.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
But im scared of him lol
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
lol I love the Lucario Yoshi MU.
I found out something weird about it that I might delve into w/ lucario boards later on, but it's a pretty silly MU, I don't think it's at all even tbh. Then again you live in NJ which used to be like "Lucario Land" until Zucco and ksizzle's recent retirement, so eh.
Lucas is pretty stupid hard to CG. He's got the most awkward timing lol.
I found out something weird about it that I might delve into w/ lucario boards later on, but it's a pretty silly MU, I don't think it's at all even tbh. Then again you live in NJ which used to be like "Lucario Land" until Zucco and ksizzle's recent retirement, so eh.
No, just the most scary if you do drop a CG though lol.
Lucas is pretty stupid hard to CG. He's got the most awkward timing lol.
Lucas has an ok matchup with IC's, but he still loses.
Yoshi Wario about 6:4 Wario.
Ike is ok.
Yoshi doesn't seem like he should do that well against IC's, but I've even tried that matchup a few times as IC's and it's weird.
Yoshi Wario about 6:4 Wario.
Ike is ok.
Yoshi doesn't seem like he should do that well against IC's, but I've even tried that matchup a few times as IC's and it's weird.
AllyKnight
Banned via Administration
San just showed me that Ike can actually just jab the **** out of Falcon. I just need to play San differently than other Ikes. He's **** good though. Impressed by him. but lots of ikes impress me anyhow.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Well Ike has been a prime target to stereotypes
Purple
Hi guys!
Purple
Hi guys!
No i mean, he just said he has to play his ike differently. Is he saying that falcon has away around that? Is Ike that clear cut above falcon or is he not? He didn't entirely specify besides saying san is smart and that ike can jab the hell out of falcon. But nothing else ratio wise
I guess i was just looking for more on the subject than that :/
I guess i was just looking for more on the subject than that :/
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