The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[Asdioh]

*faceplant*

I mean,

*facepalm*


Let's discuss something.

Discuss. This disturbing development PROVES that indeed, the matchup is worse than 30-70 for Captain Falcon.

 

[thrillagorilla]

0%~death Footstool FTW!

So which characters metagames have changed the most since they were last discussed on the thread? I am of the opinion that the focus should be more on the developments in the opponents game compared to ours, rather than worrying about the numbers. The numbers will come soon after .

Ex:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226108
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225783

Note: I know the Pikachu tech doesn't effect us. Its just an example of something new from the other communities.

 

[Lord Viper]

Discuss. This disturbing development PROVES that indeed, the matchup is worse than 30-70 for Captain Falcon.

☆ I agree, it's more like 20-80 for Captain Falcon. =P ☆

 

[A1lion835]

☆ I agree, it's more like 20-80 for Captain Falcon. =P ☆

It's more like 50-50 Mewtario.

 

[Sino]

Wow man, great that it's finished. Don't we need too do it all over again? Or making some kind of summary on the first page?

 

[fromundaman]

Out of all the Random erroneous contradicting stuff you've said, I have to agree with you here. Marth isn't harder than MK. At least Marth can be gimped with Bair. MK can't, at least not as easily.

Marth Spaces with F-air. We can approach from above and stuff. True that Marth can hit us with Up-B, but Marth's Up B isn't as hurtful as MK's up-b.

Marth's overwhelming at first, but with enough experience, it could be manageable. MK's straight up ****. True that some MK's have given us enough reasons why it's not in winnable. And, it isn't AS BAD as it used to be to fight a MK, even though we might not win it; but still, Marth is way easier than MK.

Actually, Fair hits above Marth as well...

Also, while I can somewhat understand flaming someone for saying something ********, will you guys stop flaming Sheer for absolutely no reason? All he did was suggest changes, you know, like everyone else is. There was no call for this... Stop derailing the thread.


Maestro, when do we start the next one, and who should that next one be?


Finally, Thrilla, almost every characters' metagame has advanced since we discussed them.

Speaking of which, we should probably redo Snake, for while I agree with the number, he was our first one and is probably outdated.

 

[Asdioh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSC8Ts8LL0

why Marth beats Kirby XD

Snakes list this as 55:45 Snake, Marths list this as 60:40 Snake.

*shrug* just picture that Snake as a Kirby instead...and those are both rly gud players if you haven't heard of them

 

[fromundaman]

While they are really good players, I can't picture a Kirby vs Marth match going like that, because despite our slow air speed, we still should be able to get away from what happened in those first two stocks as Kirby.

That was a great match though!

 

[A1lion835]

Does anyone object to me doing the next thread? I think we should do it after the next tier list comes out (tier list=general indicator that metagame has changed), and rediscussing every matchup in this thread would become messy.

Edit: POST900!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fromundaman]

Except that tier lists just reflect the changing metagame. The metagame itself does not change overnight because a new list came out, and as such, many of these matchups will still be accurate, and there's only some of the older and more contravertial ones to redo.

(Also, yeah, I think MK26 honestly does a good job with this thread, and if a new one would be made, either he, Bunny, or Viper should be doing it, not that a new one is necessary.)

 

[A1lion835]

Except that tier lists just reflect the changing metagame. The metagame itself does not change overnight because a new list came out, and as such, many of these matchups will still be accurate, and there's only some of the older and more contravertial ones to redo.

(Also, yeah, I think MK26 honestly does a good job with this thread, and if a new one would be made, either he, Bunny, or Viper should be doing it, not that a new one is necessary.)

I'm not saying that the metagame changes overnight, I'm saying that the tier list signifies that the metagame has changed. It...it's sort of hard for me to put in words.

And I bet I could do at least a reasonable job with a thread like this...

 

[Jester Kirby]

Does anyone object to me doing the next thread? I think we should do it after the next tier list comes out (tier list=general indicator that metagame has changed), and rediscussing every matchup in this thread would become messy.

Edit: POST900!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's wrong with keeping this Thread? Definitly keep it alive if we redo it. And forsure wait a while else ittl just be a clone more or less. I personally would like to see all of the overviews finished.

 

[~Shao~]

Wait... which of Marth's moves clank with those you mentioned? I've never even seen any of my moves (with Mario or Kirby for that matter) clank with Marth's moves (Not saying it can't happen, but I've never seen it.).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktuj9XhuvNI @2:20 Kirby's f-smash clanks with Marth's f-smash.

About Marth being Kirby worst match-up, I exagerated, Snake and MK are probably worse. But a good Marth can wreck Kirby easily.

 

[SheerMadness]

I mean if you guys are gonna have Marth, Zelda, and IC at 40-60 shouldn't Metaknight be atleast 40-60 too?

Pritty sure mostly everybody would agree with that.

 

[|RK|]

Um, no. Kirby is famous for his near even matchup with Meta-Knight. Which is pretty ironic, since he also ***** Dedede...

 

[fromundaman]

TBH, it feels more 45-55 to me, but a 5 point difference is so small that I don't think it really matters. Thing is, if we're going to rediscuss/change MK, could we actually get some discussion? We barely had any when MK got brought up.

@RK: Again, a 5 point difference is barely anything, and that matchup ratio comes from our boards and the MK boards. We are all human, and we could be wrong, hence why with good arguementation/reasoning (like please, actual arguements and not just 'MK IS BROKEN!' (though we seem to be pretty good about that compared to some boards...)), it could change.

 

[SheerMadness]

So you guys would rather fight a Metaknight than a Marth, Zelda, or IC?

I agree Kirby IS one of the better vs Metaknight chars in the game but him being a better matchup than Marth, Zelda, and IC doesn't make sense to me.

Metaknight is 1 of 4 chars in the game I would find 40-60 being acceptable for, the next 3 being Snake, ZSS, and G&W.

 

[|RK|]

Obviously he's a better matchup than Marth is. Honestly, just because MK is SS Tier (lol) doesn't mean that the matchups for a character below him wouldn't be harder for another specific character. The MK's agree it's 45:55 MK, so what are you talking about that most of the boards would agree?

 

[A1lion835]

What's wrong with keeping this Thread? Definitly keep it alive if we redo it. And forsure wait a while else ittl just be a clone more or less. I personally would like to see all of the overviews finished.

The bad thing about keeping this thread would be that we'd still have the same OP, unless the mods did something like they did with the kirby video archive, and then we'd have these 120+ pages of discussion in our matchup thread while we started anew.

 

[fromundaman]

A1, he could just add links to rediscussion with the page numbers... Stop trying to remake this just to get a stickied thread.

So you guys would rather fight a Metaknight than a Marth, Zelda, or IC?

I agree Kirby IS one of the better vs Metaknight chars in the game but him being a better matchup than Marth, Zelda, and IC doesn't make sense to me.

Metaknight is 1 of 4 chars in the game I would find 40-60 being acceptable for, the next 3 being Snake, ZSS, and G&W.

For some of those: undoubtedly!

I get to play MK and ZSS on a regular basis, and in both cases the players are better than me (by which I mean we are not of equal skill levels, not that they win more matches, though that's also true.), and they are, in my experience, better matchups than Marth, G&W, or even Snake (especially ZSS. I can't compare with Zelda or ICs though since I haven't gotten to play really good ICs or Zeldas.).

I have presented what I feel we have on MK many times before, though if you want I can dig it up again.

For ZSS, we have fun little tricks we can abuse against her, and she has a blind spot under her (though downB pretty much covers it in certain cases). She also tends to have some trouble once you get into close range against characters who have faster attacks/grabs than her (Our grab is faster than all her moves on the ground except DownB and jab, and our tilts tend to be faster and/or clash with hers a lot too.). Her kill moves are all punishable, except maybe her Bair (though the same can be said about ours). We also kill her much earlier than she kills us.
However, she is very hard to juggle/combo thanks to her downB, and is faster than us movement-wise both on the ground and in the air, not to mention she has a much better range.

All in all, it's not a great matchup, but I don't see it as one of our worst.

 

[Lord Viper]

All in all, it's not a great matchup, but I don't see it as one of our worst.

☆ Well, you almost see the light. Just get her off of one of our worst match up's and then her placement will make since. I mean Zamus is only 40-60 on lagfi and not offline. ☆

 

[A1lion835]

Stop trying to remake this just to get a stickied thread.

I'm not just trying to get a sticky thread >.> must...get...sticky thread!

I think it'd be more complicated and messy if we did it in here, so I'm suggesting we do a new one. I'm also saying I'd be willing to take the burden upon myself to do all of the work, but I'm not saying I'm the only one who should/can.

 

[Sino]

It will be less complicated if we make a summary of every matchup, just as we already have of some of the matchups. And then talk about the matchups all over again.
If a new thread helps with this, I don't think so if we just make this thread less complicated, than it's the thing too do.
But it's not about getting a sticky or not, it's about helping the kirbyboards.

 

[MK26]

I'm not just trying to get a sticky thread >.> must...get...sticky thread!

I think it'd be more complicated and messy if we did it in here, so I'm suggesting we do a new one. I'm also saying I'd be willing to take the burden upon myself to do all of the work, but I'm not saying I'm the only one who should/can.

Thanks for the offer, but I'd like to get all the matchup summaries done first before rediscussing/redoing everything - you can help with that if you'd like.

 

[A1lion835]

Thanks for the offer, but I'd like to get all the matchup summaries done first before rediscussing/redoing everything - you can help with that if you'd like.

Sure. When should I start?

 

[MK26]

Sure. When should I start?

Whenever you want to start the summary on Falco. I'll pm you with the template (eventually)

 

[platiepoos]

Maestro, some of the summaries were made in the correct template, but you still didn't post them. I recall Bowser being one of them.

 

[MK26]

Maestro, some of the summaries were made in the correct template, but you still didn't post them. I recall Bowser being one of them.

i have posted all the ones i made. I think you're thinking of Ganondorf. Ill get the ones IC3R made asap

 

[fromundaman]

Are the ones IC3R made in the right template? (AKA if some of us want to make one (Not making promises due to a heavy lack of time), is that the template to use?)

 

[MK26]

Are the ones IC3R made in the right template? (AKA if some of us want to make one (Not making promises due to a heavy lack of time), is that the template to use?)

Well, sorta...not really. I have to reformat those.

If anybody would like to help, i can pm you with the template. Just ask.

 

[SheerMadness]

So I played a Zelda in a tourney saturday and I still don't see how it's 40-60. He got like 17th or 25th out of 130 people so he was definitely a pritty good Zelda.

Zelda never approaches so I just camped right infront of him and just outside his range. Doing that baits them into doing attacks and as long as you keep your approaches as unpredictable as possible the matchup doesn't seem too hard to me.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ The reason why I see it as 40-60 is her range of most of her attacks out range Kirby's, and with great killing power, just about all her air moves is dangerous to encounter against and she's hard to combo on when it come's to grabs, and air combo's. That's why I see it as 40-60. ☆

 

[fromundaman]

? The reason why I see it as 40-60 is her range of most of her attacks out range Kirby's, and with great killing power, just about all her air moves is dangerous to encounter against and she's hard to combo on when it come's to grabs, and air combo's. That's why I see it as 40-60. ?

She's not hard to combo once you get her in the air though, since she has no good quick aerials, and most of her aerials suck unless sweetspotted. Add this to the fact she has a blind spot below her, and air combos (or even Dthrow follow-ups) shouldn't be that tough...

Also, Zelda has some startup and ending lag so getting in shouldn't be *too* hard...

Meh most of this is theorycrafting, but most of the arguments made for her also apply to DK or Snake, only much moreso, so how is she listed as better or equal to them? (Well, okay, I can see why DK, possibly, but you get the point.)

 

[Timbers]

Luc boards are rediscussing Kirby vs. Luc.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221578

 

[t!MmY]

Well, looks like I'm popping in and posting in a lot of threads because it's April Fool's.

And... Zelda is a 40-60 match up? In Zelda's favor? I'd be more apt to say it's in Kirby's favor, but someone could maybe talk me into going 50-50.

The reasons I say this is because Zelda really can't take advantage of her priority against Kirby. Unlike a lot of characters with disjointed hitboxes, Zelda leaves herself open quite a bit when using her U-smash, F-smash, Din's Fire, etc. This makes up for Kirby's speed and actually lets him move in with an attack of his choosing giving him opportunities to combo or go for a KO.

Also, Zelda's attacks are countered fairly easily by proper distancing and/or DI. You can actually Smash DI her multi-hit smashes to avoid the last, strong hitbox and survive. Din's Fire can just be Air Dodged if at a distance from Zelda, or you can N-air through it and hit her with the N-air (or just Fast Fall into whatever you want) if she uses it too close. Not to mention the Zelda Hat makes you practically immune to Din's Fire, and can be used offensively against her Side Steps and as a mix-up against her approaches (invincibility frames FTW).

Once off-stage, she's at a huge disadvantage. If you're close enough, you can hit her before/during her Farore's Wind with a B-air (maybe a Giant Swing or F-air). If she's out too far for you to Air Guard, just time your Edgehog so that she can't grab the ledge or hit you off of it upon her return and she loses a stock. She's then forced to reappear on the stage, at which point you can usually get a F-smash, U-smash, Hammer, Giant Swing, F-air, N-air, or B-air on her depending on how well you read her recovery.

It's easy to catch her with D-tilt, U-tilt, Jab, and B-air because her attacks are not fast enough to compete with them, and her fast attacks are not scary. I mean, her Jab, Nayru's Love, D-tilt, and D-smash are nothing compared to Snake's tilts or Meta Knight's anything. The worst that can happen is you get hit by a quick D-tilt multiple times, or get KO'd at 150% by a D-smash. I admit getting combo'd from D-tilt into U-tilt/U-smash is effective and scary, but you can also DI the D-tilt making the follow-up fail.

All Kirby has to do is stay out of range of Zelda's D-tilt/U-smash/F-air/B-air and watch for openings. She will have to leave herself vulnerable at some point, and even if she doesn't Kirby can still do a decent job approaching with dashing Perfect Shield, a Dodge, or with a B-air/Grab.

I'd give this a 55-45, Kirby's favor until I see otherwise.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ It wasn't much talk on Zelda I guess. I just say 40-60 due to my experience fighting a few good Zelda mains offline. I guess that match up is pretty old though, I guess it is in Kirby's favor now that I looks at the match up some more. ☆

 

[|RK|]

Kirby vs Lucario is probably 45:55 Us. Apparently, Lucario's D-Air can be SDI'd out of. I have yet to find out if it works if you're in the heart, but if it does, that means a simple D-Throw>Inhale will allow us to control battle, as the Lucario must approach.

 

[Triple R]

So I went to a tourny yesterday and played a bunch of metas, of course... But I noticed something I don't think I've read here or been told. Many metas will recover with side B now instead of shuttle loop. The cool part is since they don't grab the ledge right away if they come in from the horizontal is that you can dsmash them before they grab the ledge. I don't remember reading this anywhere and it proved really useful in my matches.

 

[Asdioh]

Kirby vs. Lucario... 45:55 "us"

When you say us, is that Kirby or Lucario? Either way, I think it's 60:40 Lucario's favor.

How practical is it to SDI his Dair. It hits FAST so I don't see it being too realistic. I tried practicing SDI on ROB's downsmash once, and it was ridiculously hard, even when I expected it.


You can Dsmash MK as he does Side B huh? Sounds like Melee :D I'll give it a try.

My opponents seem to recover with Up B though >_>

 

[Blue Flash]

Am I the only one who thinks we should rediscuss Sheik and Pit?

Oh, and i think its about 60-40 Lucario