The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[momochuu]

I think we need to redo Diddy and Olimar.

 

[Asdioh]

I think we should redo all of those ^_^

Lucario worse than 45-55 eh? I would disagree, considering I played against 2 Lucario mains recently, and the ONLY real problem I had was the fact that one of them had really good DI, so he lived to stupid percents, and used his kaio ken powers to kill me.

40-60 at worst, I think. He's generally easy to read (gee, I wonder when/where he'll rolldodge next! Uh oh, aura sphere coming my way, maybe I should dodge it?!?!) and though his priority beats ours for the most part, he's not MK (meaning: Lucario can be punished, unlike Meta Knight ololol)


*checks Olimar and Diddy*

Olimar is rated as 60:40 Kirby....no. 55:45 at MOST. Ignoring how godlike he is onstage, gimping him is harder than you think, considering good Olimars will throw pikmin to prevent you from edgehogging, and use superarmor to prevent you from gimping.


Diddy Kong is also rated 60:40 Kirby...which I find hilarious, regardless of how bad I personally am against Diddy. He has a good ground game (which is amazing if you include bananas), good aerial game (which can also be helped by bananas) and he's harder to gimp than you'd expect, plus, he has the potential to gimp Kirby as well.
50:50 or in Diddy's favor. :/
Again, I think Alphazealot knows what he's talking about pretty well ._.

edit: and then, looking at the list, I saw Zelda as 40:60... I remember all the arguments for why she was so hard, but I've never played a good Zelda offline, since like NOBODY plays her. I actually find it kind of hard to believe that it's so bad, but I'll trust you guys for now >_>



editz: ok, after looking over the first post, I gotz some major beefz with some of these matchups.

Kirby's Match-ups (Kirby-Enemy)


Large Advantage (70-30):
Captain Falcon
Link


Advantage (60-40):
Bowser possibly 55-45
Diddy Kong 50-50 or worse
Falco
Fox (65-35) play a Fox that doesn't suck, it's not more than 60-40
Jigglypuff
Ike eh, I'll let it slide
Ivysaur
King Dedede ...play a Dedede that doesn't suck. 50-50.
Olimar it's harder than this
:shiek:Sheik


Small Advantage (55-45):
Ganondorf despite what the Ganondorfs say, I was able to sandbag against a Ganondorf and win easily (JV 3-stock on Brinstar when I wasn't sandbagging) ... maybe he wasn't as good as me? Hard to tell..
Mario I personally think 60-40, but maybe I need to play a good Mario.
Pit I personally think 60-40
Pokémon Trainer
Samus it's an advantage now, eh? *shrug*
Sonic I HATE FIGHTING SONIC
Squirtle
Toon Link 50-50 (or 47.5-52.5 Toon Link)
Wolf


Neutral (50-50):
Charizard
Kirby bull, this is DEFINITELY in Kirby's favor
Lucas
Luigi 55-45 Luigi imo
Ness
Peach
Pikachu yeah, possibly 55-45 Kirby
Yoshi


Small Disadvantage (45-55):
Donkey Kong
Lucario possibly 40-60 Lucario
Meta Knight 40-60 IMO if you're fighting a defensive Metaknight
R.O.B. I still think ROB's easy, but I haven't played a good one in a while
Wario


Disadvantage (40-60):
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Marth apparently it's worse than 40-60..I haven't played a good Marth in a long time though, so I don't know.
Snake
Zelda *shrug*
Zero Suit Samus

my thoughts in red again

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'll say match up's that we need to do over would be Wario, Ganondorf, Lucas, and Zero Suit Samus. It wasn't much talk on those discussions. ☆

 

[MK26]

Rediscuss list:
G&W - high priority
Lucario - high
Diddy - high
Pikachu - medium priority
Marth - med
Lucas - med
Samus - med
Olimar - low priority
Wario - low
Toon Link - low
Luigi - low

I recommend everybody do what Asdioh did, for completeness.

I'll get the updated matchup chart up soon.

EDIT: D: it's getting long. We should agree on the matchups that we don't disagree with before we agree on the matchups we disagree with...if that makes any sense at all

 

[A1lion835]

Kirby's Match-ups (Kirby-Enemy)


Large Advantage (70-30):
Captain Falcon Falcon advantage!
Link


Advantage (60-40):
Bowser
Diddy Kong
Falco
Fox (65-35)
Jigglypuff
Ike JabJabJab!
Ivysaur
King Dedede Our bair gets beaten by his bair in every way. You know that's a bad sign >.>
Olimar I'm willing to say reverse the rating
:shiek:Sheik


Small Advantage (55-45):
Ganondorf Like Asdioh, despite the intense debating, moar!
Mario
Pit
Pokémon Trainer
Samus 55-45 Samus
Sonic GAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Squirtle ...no. I'd say 50:50, maybe even 55:45 squirtle
Toon Link lolwut? Only if they're nice and they don't camp >.>
Wolf I'd say a little more in our advantage


Neutral (50-50):
Charizard At least small advantage
Kirby 70-30 if you use Final Cutter Canceling (which sort of actually exists)
Lucas
Luigi
Ness
Peach
Pikachu I'm gonna say 55-45 us, simply because we have the opportunity to gain the advantage, while Pika doesn't
Yoshi


Small Disadvantage (45-55):
Donkey Kong
Lucario DEFINITELY worse, he can camp you all day once he's at reasonable %'s
Meta Knight
R.O.B.
Wario


Disadvantage (40-60):
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Marth -I agree with the rating, but we still need rediscussion. Also, reading marth=advantage!
Snake lolwut? Much worse >.>
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus

My suggestions are in red.

 

[Jester Kirby]

Kirby's Match-ups (Kirby-Enemy)


Large Advantage (70-30):
Captain Falcon
Link


Advantage (60-40):
Bowser
Diddy Kong Yes, if played right Kirby can do well in this matchup, but he just gets so messed over if caught up in the bananas. 50-50 or 55-45 sounds better
Falco Maybe 65-35, his midair jump is good but if gimped he's in alot of trouble if he needs to rely on the Up-B
Fox (65-35) 60-40 is better
Jigglypuff
Ike Kirby can really mess Ike up and gimp him well but if the Ike has nice spaceing it can be tought getting in. 55-45 is better imo
Ivysaur
King Dedede 50-50 is better, he's too much like Donkey Kong..easy to combo but hard to finish off and easy to get KOd by...eccept he can camp and has air power.
Olimar eh, Idk...alot of Kirby;s seem to have trouble with him from what I'v seen. 55-45?
:shiek:Sheik


Small Advantage (55-45):
Ganondorf
Mario 50-50 if the Mario is smart with the aerials
Pit 60-40, Pit just fails too hard if gimped, and Kirby can outcamp him due to his height reduceing below the arrow when he uses it himself.
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Sonic
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wolf


Neutral (50-50):
Charizard
Kirby
Lucas
Luigi
Ness
Peach
Pikachu
Yoshi


Small Disadvantage (45-55):
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Meta Knight I think this should be 40-60, Kirby has answers to MK's priority but not enough to be near neutral
R.O.B.
Wario


Disadvantage (40-60):
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Marth 35-65 if they are good at spaceing, which most Marths are
Snake
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus


]

Put my suggestions in Red too. Dunno how I never saw this thread else I would have contributed alot more.

You wouldn;t consider duplicating it over to the Allisbrawl forums would you?

 

[A1lion835]

Jester, you mean posting the advice or making a new thread? I'll gladly take credit for the advice post the advice there, but I won't discuss.

On another note, when's that new tip of the week gonna come up? I'm waiting!

 

[fromundaman]

Can't say I really like this format since I can't dispute some of the reasonings given, but I guess I'll just do that when the rediscussion comes up or at the bottom of this post (or, more likely, both).

Kirby's Match-ups (Kirby-Enemy)[/SIZE]


Large Advantage (70-30):
Captain Falcon
Link


Advantage (60-40):
Bowser
Diddy Kong Heh, I don't know why I thought we'd rated this as even. It really should be...
Falco I don't know, either 60-40 or 65-35. In any case him and Fox should be the same.
Fox (65-35) See above.
Jigglypuff
Ike I don't know what to say about this one. While we can gimp and combo him pretty hard, fighting an Ike with good spacing is like fighting a brick wall. Also, he kills us incredibly easy, and his jab is a royal pain. Maybe I just don't know how to play good Ikes though...
Ivysaur
King Dedede Again, I don't really know what to say on this one. D3 is forced to play a very different style for this, and we gimp him fairly easily, but on the other hand, his Bair can be a pain to get around, he outranges us, and he kills us much easier than we do him.
Olimar
:shiek:Sheik


Small Advantage (55-45):
Ganondorf I know I argued for it, and while I still stand by what I said, inhale also ***** his ****. Badly. That move alone is probably enough to change the matchup.
Mario Let's not squabble over 5 points... especially since the Mario boards agree with us.
Pit To whoever mentioned it, no, we cannot outcamp Pit. He can approach with a reflector after all. Height barely matters for the arrows.
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Sonic
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wolf


Neutral (50-50):
Charizard
Kirby No way! This matchup is so unfair! In fact, in Kirby vs Kirby, I think Mewtwo has the advantage. Yeah, he's so broken he has advantages in matchups he's not even a part of.
Lucas
Luigi
Ness
Peach
Pikachu I personally see this as being slightly in Kirby's favor, but meh, again, why squabble over 5 points?
Yoshi


Small Disadvantage (45-55):
Donkey Kong
Lucario I personally see this as worse. He outranges and outprioritizes us on the ground and in the air, is fairly hard to punish if his moves are well spaced (unless PSed), and has a projectile, not to mention the epic comeback factor.
Meta Knight
R.O.B.
Wario


Disadvantage (40-60):
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Marth Marth feels worse than every other 60-40... A marth with good spacing will keep you from coming inside the sword. However, one thing I've noticed is most Marths seem fairly predictable. Seeing as how that has no bearing on the matchup however, the matchup itself should probably be worse. The only thing I see us having is the ability to punish his kill moves and the fact that his horizontal recovery isn't too great.
Snake
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus


======

Yeah, I disagree with what a lot of people are saying when it comes to reasonings however.... Ah well...

 

[Falconv1.0]

I keep hearing that we need to redo Diddy. Why.

Is there really much you can say that says anything other than 60-40?

 

[DFat2]

I keep hearing that we need to redo Diddy. Why.

Is there really much you can say that says anything other than 60-40?

Redoing isn't just giving a Rating, and you obviously know that. We're going to discuss the new stuff we found that works while fighting them. Some Match ups where discussed early in the game and the majority of the Meta Games have evolved.

 

[Aurasmash14]

You guys are finally done? congrats but since were kinda redoing our matchup get prepared by a call from timbers sometime soon.

 

[Percon]

My quick thoughts:

Kirby's Match-ups (Kirby-Enemy)


Large Advantage (70-30):
Captain Falcon
Link


Advantage (60-40):
Bowser
Diddy Kong Maybe slightly less of an advantage
Falco
Fox (65-35) It's just 60-40, IMO
Jigglypuff We beat jiggs pretty bad too. 65-35?
Ike
Ivysaur
King Dedede
Olimar
:shiek:Sheik


Small Advantage (55-45):
Ganondorf Stick him with Falcon and Link. Seriously.
Mario
Pit I say even
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Sonic
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wolf


Neutral (50-50):
Charizard
Kirby
Lucas Advantage. Either 60-40 or 65-35 us
Luigi
Ness
Peach Advantage slightly
Pikachu
Yoshi I don't know this matchup very well, but why is it even?


Small Disadvantage (45-55):
Donkey Kong
Lucario Worse
Meta Knight Worse
R.O.B. Way worse (is it just me?)
Wario


Disadvantage (40-60):
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers Possibly worse
Marth
Snake Maybe 65-35
Zelda I'm sure with practice this matchup becomes so much better. But eh, keep for now
Zero Suit Samus

 

[MK26]

@Percon re. yoshi: because nobody has any idea how this matchup goes. srsly.

Fromundaman: I'm just doing this to figure out which characters everyone wants to rediscuss, for whatever reasons.

To everyone, I'm thinking of changing Fox's rating to 60-40. Speak now or forever hold your peace.

 

[link64e]

Redoing isn't just giving a Rating, and you obviously know that. We're going to discuss the new stuff we found that works while fighting them. Some Match ups where discussed early in the game and the majority of the Meta Games have evolved.

Agreed, One of my friends mains Diddy and I swear the matches feel like 30 - 70. His bananas are a pain. Sure you can jump over them but eventually you have to land, and usually on a banana.

 

[A1lion835]

Everyone seems to disagree about kirby v kirby, so we should discuss that.

lol if I posted a topic "Kirby boards are discussing kirby" here.

 

[IC3R]

That would be ridiculously funny......

















And probably locked within 10 seconds......

 

[A1lion835]

I'd probably get an infraction for spam, and I already have enough infractions >.>

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

Everyone seems to disagree about kirby v kirby, so we should discuss that.

lol if I posted a topic "Kirby boards are discussing kirby" here.

There would be no point of even trying to talk about Kirby versus Kirby, the main thing is just to out do the other.

 

[SheerMadness]

Marth, Ice Climbers, and Zelda being more difficult than Metaknight seems way off to me.

 

[Asdioh]

^ that's a pretty good point.

I keep hearing that Marth is basically a crappier version of MK.

Personally, I think that Ice Climbers DO have the potential to be harder than MK, since 1 grab = autodeath, and Kirby WILL get grabbed eventually, it's practically impossible to avoid it forever. Then factor in that Ice Climbers are "not just grabs" and we have a problem.

Zelda...this is true. I still don't really know why Zelda's so hard. Just don't run into smashes, lol. She's hellish to fight on wifi, but offline I imagine she really wouldn't be that hard.


Speaking of wifi, I lost to a Ganondorf on the AiB ladder yesterday. He had a crappy record (it was something like 97-97)

Wifi is so stupid. I can sandbag against Ganondorf offline and win (JV 3-stock when I'm not sandbagging) and yet I get owned by obvious attacks on wifi. >:E
/rant

 

[fromundaman]

^ that's a pretty good point.

I keep hearing that Marth is basically a crappier version of MK.

Zelda...this is true. I still don't really know why Zelda's so hard. Just don't run into smashes, lol. She's hellish to fight on wifi, but offline I imagine she really wouldn't be that hard.

Marth IS a crappier version of MK, but he has one thing that MK doesn't have and gives us problems: Constant circular hitboxes. Unlike MK, who hits with a number of fast hits, most of his attacks can be interrupted by attacking in between his hitboxes or from a certain angle. Marth, however, has a constant hitbox that surrounds him during almost all of his attacks. On top of that, I believe it was proven that Dancing Blade is one of, if not the best (shuttle loop would obviously contest that) move in the game (I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember seeing that on the Marth boards). The main problem with him, unlike with MK, is that his attacks pretty much all form a wall that outprioritizes you, and aside for his kill moves, very few of his moves are punishable.

Zelda... ehh... I don't know what to think about her since I don't play her enough. Kirby is easy to sweetspot with her aerials, and her constant hitboxes are bad for her, but at the same time, all of her attacks leave her way too open for punishment. Honestly, there aren't enough Zelda players for me to care overmuch...

 

[Jeet Kune Do]

I'd imagine that Kirby's bair and fsmash can clank with some of marth's attacks to reset position... Of course, it doesn't do damage but it is a useful tactic to put the spacing on equal grounds. I could be wrong..

 

[fromundaman]

Actually, none of our attacks clank with ANY of Marth's attacks.
In fact, as a general rule, none of our attacks clank with swords. Ever.

tl:dr version for lazy people: Sword > marshmallow.

 

[A1lion835]

Actually, none of our attacks clank with ANY of Marth's attacks.
In fact, as a general rule, none of our attacks clank with swords. Ever.

tl:dr version for lazy people: Sword > marshmallow.

That's why you use your rock.

Rock > sword
sword > marshmallow
rock > sword > marshmallow
rock > marshmallow
lolwut?

 

[~Shao~]

Actually, a handful of Kirby's attacks can clank with Marth's. F-tilt, u-tilt, f-smash, d-tilt (not sure) clank. However, it's hard to do on purpose, and this is considering Marth's attack wasn't perfectly spaced, meaning the tip of our feet has to hit the middle of his sword.

 

[Asdioh]

Actually, a handful of Kirby's attacks can clank with Marth's. F-tilt, u-tilt, f-smash, d-tilt (not sure) clank. However, it's hard to do on purpose, and this is considering Marth's attack wasn't perfectly spaced, meaning the tip of our feet has to hit the middle of his sword.

This. T_T

It is not only hard to get inside the sword, but once you do, it's hard to followup safely. You have to read him perfectly, and he generally has more options than you, making it hard. If you're trying to KOMBO him in the air, he can:

1. Airdodge.
2. Fair/whatever other aerial to hit you.
3. Counter.

And yeah, it's tough to get around. Not to mention that gimping Marth is extremely difficult..


Unless, maybe, you're a pro at the pseudo cuttercide!

:[

And yes, the Stone does outprioritze Marf. It outprioritizes almost everything in the game. It just sucks when you try to gimp Marf with the Stone and his Up B goes right through it because of invincibility >=(

 

[A1lion835]

The only thing that I think doesn't get beaten by stone is when you use it and go through the tornado where there's no hurtbox, even though the hitbox SHOULD extend far enough to hit MK. But he's meta knight, what are you going to do...

 

[~Shao~]

This is one of the reasons I hate brawl's lack of hitstun, trying to combo Marth ends up being a f-air/n-air fest =/ Even though I've never played a good MK/Snake/Zelda/ICs/GW, I seriously believe Marth is Kirby's worst match-up. He can shut you down entirely.

EDIT: man, everytime I post, there's already something from A1lion835

 

[Asdioh]

The PKT2 of Ness, and possibly Lucas, doesn't get hurt by Stone. It just gets its momentum greatly lowered o_o


And Marth being Kirby's worst matchup...it's a possibility ^_^

At least he dies earlier than Snake. :/ otherwise it'd be impossible

 

[fromundaman]

Wait... which of Marth's moves clank with those you mentioned? I've never even seen any of my moves (with Mario or Kirby for that matter) clank with Marth's moves (Not saying it can't happen, but I've never seen it.).

 

[SheerMadness]

You guys baffle me.

Didn't the Marth boards come back here a while ago and say that Kirby is a lot better against Marth than they thought?

Either way I can't possibly fathom Marth being harder than Metaknight.

 

[~Shao~]

The most common is f-smash, when the blade is descending and you hit the middle of the blade with the tip of Kirby's foot. IIRC, his u-tilt/f-tilt can clank and I believe f-smash can clank with his d-tilt. I think I have video proof for most of this, so I'll try to find it.

 

[fromundaman]

You guys baffle me.

Didn't the Marth boards come back here a while ago and say that Kirby is a lot better against Marth than they thought?

Either way I can't possibly fathom Marth being harder than Metaknight.

To be fair, not only is that discussion really old, but looking back on it, the main arguements seems to have been 'it was worse in melee' and 'Marth will eventually screw up'. (Also, from what I'm seeing, in the debate, only one Marth main DIDN'T say it was in Marth's advantage, but they didn't say it was even or in Kirby's either.)

Don't get me wrong, so far most of my experiences against marth players have been me coming out on top, but based on the actual characters' abilities, I am certain that if the Marth players I've played had been better, it would have been an uphill battle.

EDIT: Thanks Shao. Didn't know that.

 

[DFat2]

You guys baffle me.

Didn't the Marth boards come back here a while ago and say that Kirby is a lot better against Marth than they thought?

Either way I can't possibly fathom Marth being harder than Metaknight.

Out of all the Random erroneous contradicting stuff you've said, I have to agree with you here. Marth isn't harder than MK. At least Marth can be gimped with Bair. MK can't, at least not as easily.

Marth Spaces with F-air. We can approach from above and stuff. True that Marth can hit us with Up-B, but Marth's Up B isn't as hurtful as MK's up-b.

Marth's overwhelming at first, but with enough experience, it could be manageable. MK's straight up ****. True that some MK's have given us enough reasons why it's not in winnable. And, it isn't AS BAD as it used to be to fight a MK, even though we might not win it; but still, Marth is way easier than MK.

 

[SheerMadness]

Out of all the Random erroneous contradicting stuff you've said,

Childish post. All I do on here is post my opinions and my opinions can't be erroneous. For whatever reason you people get belligerent because my opinions are often times extremely deviated.

But I'd say the majority agree that Metaknight is definitely not an easier matchup than Marth so we should consider changing 1 if not both of those matchups.

 

[DFat2]

Childish post. All I do on here is post my opinions and my opinions can't be erroneous. For whatever reason you people get belligerent because my opinions are often times extremely deviated.

Yeah, you're the only one that posts opinions, everyone else posts facts. I totally forgot, thanks for reminding me captain obvious. Sorry, I'm the one that's insane for mistaking the definition of erroneous. It's not some thing that's different from the average.

Come on, you were the only one that "Suggested" that IC's don't have an extremely easy time grabbing Kirby. That's erroneous thinking. Sorry for going of on that one time, but you insisted so hard on it that the image of you thinking you where right while whole Kirby boards said otherwise is burned into my brain.

Your opinions can be erroneous. Maybe not for you, but for the rest of us, they kind of sway towards the erroneous side.

 

[SheerMadness]

Lol good lord an even more childish post.

You're basically saying all my opinions are wrong because you disagree with them. What a god awful attitude to have on a matchup discussion thread. What are you 5 years old and can't handle people having differing opinions?

The maturity on the Kirby boards is comical.

 

[|RK|]

How about this: ignore each other. You are derailing a posthumously constructive thread and it needs to stop.

 

[A1lion835]

You're basically saying all my opinions are wrong because you disagree with them. What a god awful attitude to have on a matchup discussion thread.

lolno, we're saying your opinions are wrong because you have absolutely nothing to back them up with, while we have tons of facts.

 

[DFat2]

You're basically saying all my opinions are wrong because you disagree with them. What a god awful attitude to have on a matchup discussion thread. What are you 5 years old and can't handle people having differing opinions?

I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm saying they're erroneous because the train of thought is unbelievable. You act like things are as easy as they sound.

You don't seem very realistic. Well, for some one as mature as you, you don't seem to act like it.

The maturity on the Kirby boards is comical.

How does maturity affect knowledge and ability/skill inside a video Game? You could be as mature as you'd like to. Doesn't mean that you're right/any good.

Do you play with a Suit and Tie good sir?

(I am stating before hand that I do not symbolize maturity as some business man with a suit and tie, I use it for metaphorical silliness)
__________________

lolno, we're saying your opinions are wrong because you have absolutely nothing to back them up with, while we have tons of facts.

The difference between a Fact and an Opinion is like, elementary school stuff.