The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[cba]

Good ganons play campy.

 

[momochuu]

Hm... Icicle Mountain because it has no edges, but Zamus is less hampered by that than Olimar...

The Summit? O___o

That is never. EEEVVVERRR gonna be a counterpick. Ever.

 

[fromundaman]

What about Marth? Do you seriously think Marth is any easier than ZSS? Have you played good Marths offline @_@



Ganondorf discussion: I can probably 3-stock the best Ganondorf in the world.

Not really, but he IS ridiculously easy for Kirby to beat. I'd say Kirby has an easier time against Ganondorf than say, Metaknight. Kirby just ooooowns him.

Don't get hit though. He can kill you in like 5 moves, sometimes less, depending on the stage @_@

Have you ever played a good Ganon, or are you just saying that because it's Ganon?

Kirby is actually one of his best matchups, and Ganon mains have found he may just have an infinite on Kirby. Ganon boards have actually ranked it somewhere between 60-40 Kirby and 50-50 (I forget the exact ratio, even though I was recently arguing it.).

(Honestly though, we're not likely to actually find Ganon players in tournies.)

 

[Asdioh]

Yeah, I went into that matchup thread to see what was going on, and then I see all this stuff saying it's only 60-40 Kirby or at an extreme, possibly Ganondorf's advantage with Chainchoking.

I don't know. I feel like Kirby can just grab combo Ganondorf at 0%, and then chain dthrows on him for as long as he pleases. Ganondorf is just too slow to deal with it. All of his aerials except Uair, and maybe Bair I don't know, have ridiculous ending lag.

I guess I'll just have to wait until I fight a really, really good Ganondorf offline.

Probably never.

I could be arrogant and be like "I challenge any Ganon main to a best of 3. I will handicap myself: I will only use grab combos, grabs, and a KO move."

But then I'd probably lose but that's what the matchup used to feel like to me, anyway.
Probably because I've been playing some Ganondorf friends on wifi, and they're not exactly what you'd call "good"

If we're going to discuss Ganondorf...wait at least another week. Like they said, this "chainchoking" business is new, and needs time, I guess.

 

[fromundaman]

My Ganon isn't anywhere near Swoops, Kosk, DAD, TP, etc., but I will show you you are wrong about a LOT of what you just typed come Sat (though yeah, the grab combos wreck Ganon and are pretty much all Kirby has going for him onstage), and I believe there'll be another Ganon main there.

But anyway, let's keep going on ZSS for now. We've hijacked this enough...

 

[Lord Viper]

I'm seriously considering canceling the ZSS discussion and getting started on Ganondorf.

☆ Sadly, this is another Match up that I don't know. =/ ☆

 

[Percon]

Against ZSS consider counterpicking distant planet if possible, if for no other reason than her armor pieces sliding away at the start

 

[~Gonzo~]

since when was distant planet a counterpick?!?!?! and Zamus is not that bad, from what i've seen of Chu vs Snakey and such Kirby has pretty decent time dealing with Zamus' spacing, not to mention gets a great copy especially against the likes of Zamus

Ganondorf is not as easy as people think, i ahve been practicing the chainchoking and its a thousand times harder than u can imagine, if u wish to practice it at all go to training in 1.5 mode, it'll adjust ur reaction times to a fast enough pace for normal speed. Although its still hard Kirby might be a character thats easier to chainchoke, MK is hard as balls due to his fast as a55 attack tech.

 

[IC3R]

Against ZSS consider counterpicking distant planet if possible, if for no other reason than her armor pieces sliding away at the start

You both start on a slope with Distant Planet, right? And I completely forgot about her armor pieces Her Glide Toss is amazing.

I'm not sure about any counterpicks just yet....


Hmm, you may have a point Gonzo. I agree that stealing her laser is an excellent way to get the upper hand, cause Kirby can duck under hers, but not the other way around X)

Also, yeah, Ganon is a beast. More input later...

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Am i the only one that ***** ganons with kirby? >_>

 

[Lord Viper]

Am i the only one that ***** ganons with kirby? >_>

☆ No your not, I find him not too hard to fight to me, I just need to fight more Ganondorf mains to say his match up. But I'm the only one that kills Zamus very badly with Kirby. O_o ☆

 

[IC3R]

☆ No your not, I find him not too hard to fight to me, I just need to fight more Ganondorf mains to say his match up. But I'm the only one that kills Zamus very badly with Kirby. O_o ☆

I wish I could play more/different people. The only actual good matches I have are with my brother. We've had some down-to-the-wire matches that made our heartrates insane and our vessels loaded with adrenaline!!! Our Brawls our so epic. Anyway, he seconds Ganon, and does okay with him. He doesn't really pay much mind to the ATs, though he shows some enthusiasm with Flame Choke follow-throughs.

He has a beast Yoshi, and that's pretty much the only character he can beat me with regularly (we're pretty even in skill level with our mains).


Kirby simply needs to capitilize on Ganon's speed and weight, comboing him like crazy and finish with a good ol' F-Smash.

Ganon just wants to hit Kirby with whatever. Every one of his moves makes Kirby soar (or sore lol punz) >_>;


Almost sounds like Bowser vs. Meta Knight, except Kirby owns || (Kirby) 65 :: 35 (Ganon)

 

[~Gonzo~]

it actually should be more like 80-20 for kirby against Ganon, if u can't beat a ganon with Kirby u should destroy ur copy of brawl and never play again. JK but u see what i mean, i would put 100-0 but that means u should win without trying

 

[A1lion835]

Can we start discussing a matchup I know? Like marth... but we've already done that...

 

[ph00tbag]

EDIT: good idea speculosity
CP japes, yi brawl, orpheon, or lylat
Ban PS1
Stage strike Battlefield
Avoid norfair

I agree on everything except for CPing Yoshi's or Lylat, because some ZSSes perform fairly well, there. Snakeee hasn't changed the stage thread on the ZSS boards, but he actually prefers to CP Lylat. Take ZSS to Japes or Orpheon.

Good attacks
Armour pieces
Jab-cancel into tilts
D-smash
Side-B (spacing/damage dealer/gimps)
Down-B (spike/recovery)
U-air (killer/oos)
B-air (killer)
F-air (killer)
U-smash
U-tilt (oos)
D-tilt (vital against Kirby)

Made necessary changes.

And I'm going to say swallow should be you best bet. Really, Paralyzer isn't that great, but it can set up for stuff.

 

[~Gonzo~]

the odds of swallowing Zamus if the Zamus player is fairly good, extremely low, i'd prefer to get in more damage and setup with the lazer than take damage trying to gay Zamus

 

[Falconv1.0]

Icer, Kirby was high tier last time, and he moved UP.

And Viper, on your ZSS vs. Kirby match up ideas, no. Just no.

AND WTF IS WITH ALL THE BANNED STAGES BEING RAISED AS CP'S TO BE AWARE OF.

God I just cant suffer fools.

 

[IC3R]

Icer, Kirby was high tier last time, and he moved UP.

Okay, cool. He's back to his former glory. Anyway...

I gave Ganon too much credit...

What can he do about Kirby D-Tilts? Nothing. Unless he can Smash Reverse and aim downward quickly enough, he's getting nowhere...

@ 0% :: F-Throw -> Uair -> Grab -> F-Throw -> Air Hammer ftw


I don't know and I don't really care if these combos work on Ganon in Brawl, I just like to theorize when I can't play.

 

[Asdioh]

Ganondorf really can't punish Kirby's dtilt easily at all. All he really has are laggy aerials, and his own dtilt.

Kirby combos the crap out of Ganondorf.

Kirby can do tons of damage just with grabs, pummels, and dthrows. What can Ganondorf do about this?

And last but not least, regardless of whether "chainchoking" is viable....Ganondorf's Flame Choke is pretty easy to see coming, easy to dodge, and easy to punish.

I guess I won't be convinced this matchup is even until I get destroyed by a really good Ganondorf offline. :/

 

[SaltyKracka]

Ganondorf really can't punish Kirby's dtilt easily at all. All he really has are laggy aerials, and his own dtilt.

Kirby combos the crap out of Ganondorf.

Kirby can do tons of damage just with grabs, pummels, and dthrows. What can Ganondorf do about this?

And last but not least, regardless of whether "chainchoking" is viable....Ganondorf's Flame Choke is pretty easy to see coming, easy to dodge, and easy to punish.

I guess I won't be convinced this matchup is even until I get destroyed by a really good Ganondorf offline. :/

Unfortunately for you, Ganon's dtilt is ****, he can easily escape the throw combo after about the first aerial, and he punishes whiffed moves with Murder Choke. And what's REALLY bad for Kirbs is that Ganon can easily kill him out of chainchoking.

 

[IC3R]

Unfortunately for you, Ganon's dtilt is ****,

But who's D-Tilt is faster? Kirby's.

he can easily escape the throw combo after about the first aerial,

Okay, F-Throw -> Uair -> Hyphen Smash/F-Smash (aimed up)

he punishes whiffed moves with Murder Choke. And what's REALLY bad for Kirbs is that Ganon can easily kill him out of chainchoking.

True. The solution for us: Don't get Choked

Ganon will make our little puffball fly farther than we want him to, so we merely need to minimize the slip-ups, which means we don't need to spam our laggy Smashes.


Overall, it's still in Kirby's favor, am I right? Maybe 61-64 :: 39-36

 

[SaltyKracka]

But who's D-Tilt is faster? Kirby's.

But whose Dtilt is vastly stronger, has much better range, and awesome priority? Ganon's.

Okay, F-Throw -> Uair -> Hyphen Smash/F-Smash (aimed up)


True. The solution for us: Don't get Choked

Ganon will make our little puffball fly farther than we want him to, so we merely need to minimize the slip-ups, which means we don't need to spam our laggy Smashes.


Overall, it's still in Kirby's favor, am I right? Maybe 61-64 :: 39-36

You.....don't get it at all. How is Kirby supposed to be able to grab Ganon if Ganon isn't supposed to be able to grab Kirby?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

kirby is shorter than ganon rofl

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Aw, how weak, there were no Zamus or Ganondorf mains in the underground tourney that I won.... with Ness all the way, (proof of my Ness later). =P

So yea, I'm still clueless about both of the match ups. ☆

You.....don't get it at all. How is Kirby supposed to be able to grab Ganon if Ganon isn't supposed to be able to grab Kirby?

☆ How I'm able to grab a lot of big characters is D-Air > Grab, but I'm pretty sure after Ganondorf does a good amount of his moves that has ending lag in them for a good second or so, so he's easier to get grab since Kirby's grab box is kind of disjointed. I'll say most Ganondorf mains I fought do a lot of short hoping to F-Air or B-Air, some uses his Side-B very well, and is very good with kamikaze techs of that move. ☆

 

[IC3R]

But whose Dtilt is vastly stronger, has much better range, and awesome priority? Ganon's.

Speed will beat out power. (See: Metaknight)
Kirby's D-Tilt comes out in like 3 frames, while Ganon's comes out in 10 frames.

You.....don't get it at all. How is Kirby supposed to be able to grab Ganon if Ganon isn't supposed to be able to grab Kirby?

Kirby's Grab range > Ganon's Grab range

However, the Flame Choke (or Gerudo) is a different story.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Speed will beat out power. (See: Metaknight)
Kirby's D-Tilt comes out in like 3 frames, while Ganon's comes out in 10 frames.

Yes, but speed needs to get into range, first. And you know range and priority beat out speed.

Kirby's Grab range > Ganon's Grab range

However, the Flame Choke (or Gerudo) is a different story.

Exactly my point. I was talking about CCing, not just regular grabbing, though RPG actually gives Ganon an equivalent grab range.

 

[choice_brawler]

For ZSS i'd agree with ph00tbag and CP friget or japes, prolly the japes cuz ZSS kills off the top and its the highest ceiling stage in the game. Just like the set up of japes seems like it would give ZSS trouble. Its not all level so she cant shoot stuff as often as she'd like and her recovery is like reduced to dj and down b. if over b lands in the water she gets dragged along, i think. What about taking ZSS to Rainbow cruise though? Most of that stage doesnt have any edges and 0-death throw = win for kirby.

 

[~Gonzo~]

For ZSS i'd agree with ph00tbag and CP friget or japes, prolly the japes cuz ZSS kills off the top and its the highest ceiling stage in the game. Just like the set up of japes seems like it would give ZSS trouble. Its not all level so she cant shoot stuff as often as she'd like and her recovery is like reduced to dj and down b. if over b lands in the water she gets dragged along, i think. What about taking ZSS to Rainbow cruise though? Most of that stage doesnt have any edges and 0-death throw = win for kirby.

i took a good Zamus player to Rainbow, he actually liked that stage a lot, low ceiling is the reason i think. Either way i lost even with two Uthrow gays.

 

[choice_brawler]

i took a good Zamus player to Rainbow, he actually liked that stage a lot, low ceiling is the reason i think. Either way i lost even with two Uthrow gays.

That makes sense, the low ceiling part. Thats gotta be some crazy good ZSS or they just really like that stage cuz winning after losing 2 stock to that uthrow is ridiculous.

What do ZSS's normally ban for stages?

 

[lucy!JOE!]

ooouuuuffff these match up threads save me *** alot :D thanks every one keep them comin :D

 

[Ussi]

Yes, but speed needs to get into range, first. And you know range and priority beat out speed.

Not when speed has priority too

 

[SaltyKracka]

Not when speed has priority too

And boy, does Ganon's dtilt have it.

 

[momochuu]

I can tell where this is going.

 

[SaltyKracka]

I can tell where this is going.

My way.

Or the highway.

God I'm enjoying these jokes so much.

 

[choice_brawler]

Isn't ZSS being discussed, not ganon? I think we'll run into more ZSS's than ganon's personally, good one's at least, so prolly should get that match up settled first.

 

[Asdioh]

Exactly my point. I was talking about CCing, not just regular grabbing, though Rocket-Propelled Grenades actually gives Ganon an equivalent grab range.

THIS GAME JUST BECAME AWESOME

i took a good Zamus player to Rainbow, he actually liked that stage a lot, low ceiling is the reason i think. Either way i lost even with two Uthrow gays.

o_o

I can't even do Uthrow gays when I go to that stage, lol. I need to get the timing down or something.

Kirby's Uthrow is so bad in Melee (and even so, it's better than his other throws, lol)

Not when speed has priority too

lol, Ike vs MetaKnight.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Isn't ZSS being discussed, not ganon? I think we'll run into more ZSS's than ganon's personally, good one's at least, so prolly should get that match up settled first.

agreed, he didnt ban a stage, which kinda psyched me out lol i was like no ban??? do u know who i play?!?!? i was debating between cruise and electroplankton, i should have gone to elctroplankton or better yet Japes.

 

[choice_brawler]

agreed, he didnt ban a stage, which kinda psyched me out lol i was like no ban??? do u know who i play?!?!? i was debating between cruise and electroplankton, i should have gone to elctroplankton or better yet Japes.

Yea i dont see any reason not to take ZSS to the japes. She does have 3 different meteors, but one of em results her in the water too and we can recover horizontally a whole lot better than she can.

 

[~Gonzo~]

shoulda woulda coulda, we didn't know about Japes back then, or we had just started using it as a CP, or i had anyway.

 

[MK26]

Isn't ZSS being discussed, not ganon? I think we'll run into more ZSS's than ganon's personally, good one's at least, so prolly should get that match up settled first.

o rly?

EDIT: I think this is 8 or 9 OP edits in a row in which I have somehow managed to hit the maximum character limit