The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[IC3R]

i Vote We Have Him Brawl Gonzo.

yeeeeeeeeeesssss!!!!!

 

[A1lion835]

if theres no lag i'm down, its actually easier to 0-death in wifi, but 1000 F'n times harder to powershield :O

Make sure to send me the replays.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Salty, i've played good ganons in tourney, and lets just say that the ganon player took up Kirby as their new main after the match. He still seconds ganon but his new main is seriously Kirby. Kirby can 0-death u if ur near an ednge, i can inhale counter ur Fsmash, Bair beats all ur aerials, that matchup is just ******** for Ganon. like i said earlier, i personally would put the matchup at 80-20 lol

 

[SaltyKracka]

if theres no lag i'm down, its actually easier to 0-death in wifi, but 1000 F'n times harder to powershield :O

Indeed. However, Ganon suffers in lag. As do I. Living out here in CA doesn't exactly contribute to lagless matches.

Asdioh can't brawl. He only has his wii on some weekends, and this weekend he won't. Also:
You guys don't seem to have come up with a response.

Here's my response.

It's called reaction time, and the fact that Ganon pulls his hurtbox in before he extends both his hitbox and hurtbox.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Salty, i've played good ganons in tourney, and lets just say that the ganon player took up Kirby as their new main after the match. He still seconds ganon but his new main is seriously Kirby. Kirby can 0-death u if ur near an ednge, i can inhale counter ur Fsmash, Bair beats all ur aerials, that matchup is just ******** for Ganon. like i said earlier, i personally would put the matchup at 80-20 lol

lolno

10lulz

 

[momochuu]

I'd play him but I have parental johns. <.<

 

[A1lion835]

It's called reaction time, and the fact that Ganon pulls his hurtbox in before he extends both his hitbox and hurtbox.

You're telling me ganon's entire body is a hitbox and no hurtbox when he dairs? This I gotta see. And even if ftilt didn't work, we can just grab.

 

[~Gonzo~]

lol, wifi wont prove much, just whose played on wifi more >_> Sakurai

but if u want we can each play against a level 9 Comp, u against Kirby and me against Ganon, and c who ***** harder. My Kirby or ur Ganon

 

[DFat2]

We can keep the Back and Forward all Night, but it's pretty obvious.

If anything I said didn't make it clear enough:

Salty, i've played good ganons in tourney, and lets just say that the ganon player took up Kirby as their new main after the match. He still seconds ganon but his new main is seriously Kirby. Kirby can 0-death u if ur near an ednge, i can inhale counter ur Fsmash, Bair beats all ur aerials, that matchup is just ******** for Ganon. like i said earlier, i personally would put the matchup at 80-20 lol

You really gonna say that Gonzo doesn't know what he's talking about?

I'll admit that there are some thing's I said that where debatable, but more than half of what you said was highly situational and depended on the opponent's Kirby. Scrub Kirby's don't count.

I said 60/40 to be Fair, But 70/30-65/35 seems more accurate to me.

 

[Asdioh]

Always up for an online Brawl, though. I'd gladly play Asdioh.

I'd like to, but like A1 said, I can't, and the Kirby-Ganondorf matchup changes pretty drastically on wifi. Lack of powershields sucks indeed

I really don't think Kirby can 0-death any character with good DI, ever.

I remembered what I was gonna say. The most recent good Ganondorf I've played was on wifi, and he's known as Breezy on Allisbrawl. I don't know how good he is comparatively (probably above average and not much more) but he's a cool guy.

Also, this was on paste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW2w4LISpBE
Because it's cool

 

[SaltyKracka]

You're telling me ganon's entire body is a hitbox and no hurtbox when he dairs? This I gotta see. And even if ftilt didn't work, we can just grab.

I'm saying that he avoids it, somewhat similar to what Kirby's crouch does. As for the hitbox, it's true. His whole body is one gigantic hitbox during dair. And if you're going to try to grab, well, that's why it's a retreating or approaching thunderstorm. Either we push you out of grab range, or we land behind you with enough time to spotdodge.

lol, wifi wont prove much, just whose played on wifi more >_> Sakurai

but if u want we can each play against a level 9 Comp, u against Kirby and me against Ganon, and c who ***** harder. My Kirby or ur Ganon

You should know **** well that'd prove nothing. Besides, while I'm a high level Ganon, I'm not anywhere near the top.

We can keep the Back and Forward all Night, but it's pretty obvious.

If anything I said didn't make it clear enough:
You really gonna say that Gonzo doesn't know what he's talking about?

I'll admit that there are some thing's I said that where debatable, but more than half of what you said was highly situational and depended on the opponent's Kirby. Scrub Kirby's don't count.

I said 60/40 to be Fair, But 70/30-65/35 seems more accurate to me.

And I keep saying that you're completely forgetting Chainchoking. Not only is it guaranteed damage into the 30% range, it refreshes kill moves and leads to easy, guaranteed kills.

 

[~Gonzo~]

I'm saying that he avoids it, somewhat similar to what Kirby's crouch does. As for the hitbox, it's true. His whole body is one gigantic hitbox during dair. And if you're going to try to grab, well, that's why it's a retreating or approaching thunderstorm. Either we push you out of grab range, or we land behind you with enough time to spotdodge.


You should know **** well that'd prove nothing. Besides, while I'm a high level Ganon, I'm not anywhere near the top.
And I keep saying that you're completely forgetting Chainchoking. Not only is it guaranteed damage into the 30% range, it refreshes kill moves and leads to easy, guaranteed kills.

its called powershield, u just wait and click L R or any other button u have assigned to shield. I have three buttons assigned to shield, don't tell me u can't powershield every hit especially when were talking about Ganon's Dair.

Chainchoking?? seriously i've tried this and i'm a spaz, and still can only do it against MK 50 / 50 its almost impossible to tell the difference between a standing tech and an attacking tech. That makes this technique difficult. Although if they are near the edge its much much easier but still Kirby can roll quite a fair distance away forcing ganon to have to have much faster reaction times.

 

[cba]

Saltys arguments are full of win.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Saltys arguments are full of win.

i dont know whether to laugh or just ignore until we move on to the next matchup.

Seriously are we trying to argue that Kirby and Ganon are even or Kirby has a slight advantage.

Kirby ***** ganons ****!!! all day long end of story.

This would be our match. I powershield grab, Fthrow, Uair, Dthrow, Jump Bair, fastfall reverse grab, dtthrow, and then grab u some more till u got 120 which is only 4 or 5 more grabs. Then Bair u or Fsmash.

Or i could do this if were near the edge Fthrow, Uair, Fsmash, jump and wait for ur Bup or ur double jump + attack and just dair it.

Or i could just Dthrow, Utiltx2, Bair, and then bair and or powershield+grab u all day. thats all it takes.

Kirby can even duck under half ur moves. i can live to 180% with kirby against Ganon. Tell me how do u expect ganon to have an answer when all kirby has to do is take the lead and just powershield grab his way to victory.

 

[cba]

kk. is it me or SWF got a ridiculous new forum style?

 

[Asdioh]

This would be our match. I powershield grab, Fthrow, Uair, Dthrow, Jump Bair, fastfall reverse grab, dtthrow, and then grab u some more till u got 120 which is only 4 or 5 more grabs. Then Bair u or Fsmash.

Or i could do this if were near the edge Fthrow, Uair, Fsmash, jump and wait for ur Bup or ur double jump + attack and just dair it.

Or i could just Dthrow, Utiltx2, Bair, and then bair and or powershield+grab u all day. thats all it takes.

Kirby can even duck under half ur moves. i can live to 180% with kirby against Ganon. Tell me how do u expect ganon to have an answer when all kirby has to do is take the lead and just powershield grab his way to victory.

That's why I bolded grab in my list of moves...Kirby's grab is so incredibly good in this matchup. Not only because his shieldgrab reach is great, but because all his throws have good followups, especially on someone as heavy and slow as Ganondorf.

But...I don't think you should ever live to 180% against a good Ganondorf X_X he can kill you in like 5 moves

Landing the moves, however, is the problem.

I can't help but wonder what Gonzo thinks about the Kirby:Bowser matchup...and if he's played a Bowser as good as Sliq or better...

 

[~Gonzo~]

That's why I bolded grab in my list of moves...Kirby's grab is so incredibly good in this matchup. Not only because his shieldgrab reach is great, but because all his throws have good followups, especially on someone as heavy and slow as Ganondorf.

But...I don't think you should ever live to 180% against a good Ganondorf X_X he can kill you in like 5 moves

Landing the moves, however, is the problem.

I can't help but wonder what Gonzo thinks about the Kirby:Bowser matchup...and if he's played a Bowser as good as Sliq or better...

i played Forte's bowser, it was friendly but its mad good, Bowser is a scary character to play against. His attacks are surprisingly fast and have reach beyond ur wildest dreams lol (sarcasm but still) anyway i think the matchup is in Kirby's advantage 60-40 tops but its still a nerve racking match.

 

[Asdioh]

ok, that's good. Have you played a good (really good) Ganondorf? I know I haven't. That may be the reason I underestimate him. Then again, it may not. I used to think Kirby owned Bowser until Sliq trashed me, but Bowser's tilts and stuff are generally a lot faster than Ganondorf's. So maybe I'm overestimating Ganondorf.

O_O

All I know is that at one tourney, I saw a Ganon main named Jekyll beat a MK/Snake player (friendlies or moneymatch, I don't know) and then I beat Jekyll 2-0 in pools and felt guilty because it was so freaking easy.

Like I said, Kirby seems to be a really hard matchup for Ganondorf.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Agreed, i can't believe that ganon has a chance, as long as the kirby player is expecting the ganon player to be good and has played the matchup a few times there is no reason Kirby should lose.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Agreed, i can't believe that ganon has a chance, as long as the kirby player is expecting the ganon player to be good and has played the matchup a few times there is no reason Kirby should lose.

Besides....y'know, Ganon outranging Kirby badly, having a chaingrab that can lead into a kill and can be done AT ANY TIME, instead of just at the beginning of a stock, and killing Kirby much more easily?

 

[~Gonzo~]

ur grab range is avg, not to mention i actually have more range than u when u consider i just duck under ur version of falcon kick, plus who gets hit by that anyway??

 

[SaltyKracka]

ur grab range is avg, not to mention i actually have more range than u when u consider i just duck under ur version of falcon kick, plus who gets hit by that anyway??

I was actually talking about Ganon's non-grab moveset, which vastly outranges Kirby's.
As for Wizkick, people in the air get hit by it. That's what it's there for.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'm still finding it hard to belive that Zamus is 40-60 above Kirby, I'll say this one is unclear to me.

Ganondorf is just about right to me, do most Ganondorf mains use D-Air for kills? ☆

 

[SaltyKracka]

☆ I'm still finding it hard to belive that Zamus is 40-60 above Kirby, I'll say this one is unclear to me.

Ganondorf is just about right to me, do most Ganondorf mains use D-Air for kills? ☆

It's not really our main kill move.

 

[choice_brawler]

I actually have something that might make japes not as good vs Zamus. For instance, she doesn't get washed away in the water when she tethers. Also, if you're on the platform above the middle platform and she's right below you, she can chain up-b's on you for a while if you don't techroll. And one more thing. She can up-b you when you're next to the edge and meteor you into the water. Japes might be good, but I'm not sure how good. Keep in mind, I did all of this in training, so it might not be as bad as I make it sound. But it might.

Yea i went to japes and tried it out. Her tether does make her safe from the water. Though it seems like the only option that will reach if she falls in the gap between the left platform and the middle area. So if you edge hog her she'd be done for right? Lemme see if the over b would spike us for doing so.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've played Falconv1.0 a bunch of times in this matchup. I seriously don't think it's unwinnable for Ganondorf.

Powershielding is definitely important in this matchup.

Kirby's B-air camping isn't unbeatable. Dash Attack plows through it, and it's punishable with a grab on powershield. I'm 90% sure U-air trades hits with it. F-air properly spaced beats out all of Kirby's aerials, and kills at like 90%.

Kirby can't force people to approach very well, and that works in Ganon's favor as he likes to shieldcamp with Jabs and tilts a lot.

Flame Choke is great at scaring Kirby if he shieldcamps. Chain choking possibilities along with true combos into all sorts of stuff are amazing.

 

[~Gonzo~]

WOW, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY I CAN DUCK UNDER IT, ALL I DO IS CLICK DOWN!!!!!! there goes ur flame choke, then Uair, do honestly think i'll b in the only aerial position that Ganon gets an advantage when i'm spacing a Bair??? and shield grab my Bair? DDD can barely shield grab a well spaced Bair and even then he has to dash grab me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I can attempt to F-smash, D-tilt, Dash attack, or Dashgrab if you crouch. =/

I've punished Kirby's B-air with Ganon's Dashgrab a bunch of times. DA probably works well if he's further away.

Yeah sure you can duck under Flame Choke....we use it to discourage shieldcamping and to punish dodges occasionally. Not to actually approach with.

 

[Asdioh]

☆ I'm still finding it hard to belive that Zamus is 40-60 above Kirby, I'll say this one is unclear to me.

Ganondorf is just about right to me, do most Ganondorf mains use D-Air for kills? ☆

BELIEVE IT!

*cough* sorry. But seriously, I can easily see ZSS having the advantage.

It's not really our main kill move.

Yeah, it's better as a damage builder, right?

Anyway, Ganondorf's kill moves are as follows, when fresh and Kirby's at a decent percent:

(I'll need someone's help listing which ones Ganondorf is most likely to use on Kirby

-When Kirby's in the air, all 5 of his aerials are good kill moves. You're most likely to get hit by Uair since it's the fastest and has good range, and Fair/Bair are his other best options, since they seem to be designed to be KO moves.

-On the ground, his Dtilt and Ftilt can both KO pretty well. After a Flame Choke, he can hit you with what...Dtilt/Ftilt/Something else? Jab or Dash Attack?

-Ganondorf's Dash Attack is an extremely powerful move that will be used to KO by a good Ganondorf. It's like Falcon's, but stronger. I think Kirby can duck under it, not sure. Kirby cannot duck under Ganondorf's Dash Attack.

-Jab will kill you if it's fresh and you're at a very high % XD

-All 3 smashes. Upsmash is the fastest and most spammable, right?

- ............................................Warlock Punch................................

-His down B Warlock Kick (Wizard Kick? lolwut) is also a very good KO move when fresh, ground or air.

So yeah...Ganondorf can kill with just about everything. What's easiest to land on Kirby is to be decided by a Ganondorf main...I can't stand playing Ganondorf @_@

Captain Falcon, on the other hand...

 

[choice_brawler]

Yea 40-60 or maybe 45-55 is what i think for the ZSS match up. She has range and moves around pretty fast, but she's pretty light and we kill early. CP stage still in question. Anyone have any ZSS friends that they play with often? Or just ZSS friends in general that they could ask possibly?

 

[SaltyKracka]

BELIEVE IT!

*cough* sorry. But seriously, I can easily see ZSS having the advantage.

Yeah, it's better as a damage builder, right?

Anyway, Ganondorf's kill moves are as follows, when fresh and Kirby's at a decent percent:

(I'll need someone's help listing which ones Ganondorf is most likely to use on Kirby

-When Kirby's in the air, all 5 of his aerials are good kill moves. You're most likely to get hit by Uair since it's the fastest and has good range, and Fair/Bair are his other best options, since they seem to be designed to be KO moves.

-On the ground, his Dtilt and Ftilt can both KO pretty well. After a Flame Choke, he can hit you with what...Dtilt/Ftilt/Something else? Jab or Dash Attack?

-Ganondorf's Dash Attack is an extremely powerful move that will be used to KO by a good Ganondorf. It's like Falcon's, but stronger. I think Kirby can duck under it, not sure.

-Jab will kill you if it's fresh and you're at a very high % XD

-All 3 smashes. Upsmash is the fastest and most spammable, right?

- ............................................Warlock Punch................................

-His down B Warlock Kick (Wizard Kick? lolwut) is also a very good KO move when fresh, ground or air.

So yeah...Ganondorf can kill with just about everything. What's easiest to land on Kirby is to be decided by a Ganondorf main...I can't stand playing Ganondorf @_@

Captain Falcon, on the other hand...

By far the easiest way to kill Kirby is to first choke him, and then follow up with a guaranteed Dash Attack at about 90%. Always kills.

 

[choice_brawler]

Too bad there arent any recent videos of good ZSS's vs good kirby's. Anyone got any that i couldnt find while i was searching?

 

[IC3R]

Too bad there arent any recent videos of good ZSS's vs good kirby's. Anyone got any that i couldnt find while i was searching?

These were uploaded recently by Pdiamond:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4-U3n2r018 Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBiecO0rh0 Match 2

 

[choice_brawler]

Is staindgrey supposed to be a good ZSS, i really dont know any of them other than Claw and Snakee, but i saw a fsmash there... i heard they never fsmash, its like blasphemy for them.

 

[IC3R]

Is staindgrey supposed to be a good ZSS, i really dont know any of them other than Claw and Snakee, but i saw a fsmash there... i heard they never fsmash, its like blasphemy for them.

lol idk

Maybe he was going for D-Smash but hit over by accident?

/10kirbies

 

[choice_brawler]

lol idk

Maybe he was going for D-Smash but hit over by accident?

/10kirbies

I guess thats believable...though the down smash wouldnt have hit and the fsmash did. Looks like edge hogging is especially important, but i think that was already assumed. Then again, i thought that ZSS had no trouble recovering without her tether.

I also ran a few more tests on the japes, looks like she does have an easy way out of the water, if you do it all fast enough and if you fall in on your own. If you knock her into the water then she's screwed unless if you dont edge hog the edge furthest to the left. When she falls in on her own, she can footstool you for the extra boost to get out of that sticky situation.

 

[IC3R]

I guess thats believable...though the down smash wouldnt have hit and the fsmash did. Looks like edge hogging is especially important, but i think that was already assumed. Then again, i thought that ZSS had no trouble recovering without her tether.

Well, considering the hitbox of the D-Smash would've been right on the armor piece (which is what Pdiamond was after), it is quite believable.

And yes, with Zamus' high jumps, floatiness, and Flip Jump (and that stupid kick!!!), she often has no problem recovering.

I also ran a few more tests on the japes, looks like she does have an easy way out of the water, if you do it all fast enough and if you fall in on your own. If you knock her into the water then she's screwed unless if you dont edge hog the edge furthest to the left. When she falls in on her own, she can footstool you for the extra boost to get out of that sticky situation.

Jungle Japes seems iffy. You really may as well just spike Zamus into the water on the left side of the stage for "guaranteed" kills. Frigate Orpheon seems like the best stage to CP her anyway. If she scratches that off the list, then go with Lylat Cruise...

~-~-~-~-~-

Back to Ganon: Can Kirby actually Crouch under Ganon's Flame Choke? Even if not, Kirby's techrolls send him pretty far away, so I wonder if Chainchoking is easy or difficult to do on Kirby.

Seriously, we just need our high-level Kirbys to go against the high-level Ganons. Have them recorded and analyzed, and make the decision from there...

 

[choice_brawler]

Jungle Japes seems iffy. You really may as well just spike Zamus into the water on the left side of the stage for "guaranteed" kills. Frigate Orpheon seems like the best stage to CP her anyway. If she scratches that off the list, then go with Lylat Cruise...

~-~-~-~-~-

Back to Ganon: Can Kirby actually Crouch under Ganon's Flame Choke? Even if not, Kirby's techrolls send him pretty far away, so I wonder if Chainchoking is easy or difficult to do on Kirby.

Seriously, we just need our high-level Kirbys to go against the high-level Ganons. Have them recorded and analyzed, and make the decision from there...

Why Frigate Orpheon? Seems like taking her to halberd half the time and the other half is some crazy weird stage, but only on the right side. Still i dont see her recovery being hurt much. Ceiling isnt necessarily high so killing wont be bad.

And yea we need good ganon's to have matches with good kirbys and watch what goes down in those matches, agreed. I'm guessing Salty is repping the ganons so who's gonna rep the kirbys?

 

[A1lion835]

Sorry if this has been said:

I know enough about ganon to know that his flame choke sends the opponent a little forward, which I know can make them ledgegrab if there's a ledge (set knockback). Now, I imagine I'm playing you on smashville:

Kirby: Haha, I'm about to grab **** you!

Ganon: Chainchoke!

Kirby: Well look at that...you got 2 off on me. Now your kill moves must be magically refreshed or something...*proceeds to grab **** ganon*

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Is staindgrey supposed to be a good ZSS, i really dont know any of them other than Claw and Snakee, but i saw a fsmash there... i heard they never fsmash, its like blasphemy for them.

He seems to roll a lot and do the down b kick too much. and yes fsmash sucks for zss. But he's not the best zss i've seen imho.

*still thinks matchup is 60-40 ZSS*