The New Mario Match-Up Index

[JuxtaposeX]

Nair him during his phantasm, it will give him a bent beak.

 

[Juushichi]

I'll have to try it out, but tbh, I think throwing out an usmash if you think it's coming will work too.

Maybe SJP works? Super jump punch comes out pretty fast too. Idk. I'm kinda grasping at straws. Usually
I try to roll to cover where they're gonna be.

 

[- Theelitebrawler -]

I'll have to try it out, but tbh, I think throwing out an usmash if you think it's coming will work too.

Maybe SJP works? Super jump punch comes out pretty fast too. Idk. I'm kinda grasping at straws. Usually
I try to roll to cover where they're gonna be.

Usmash could work if you have good timing but SJP wouldn't be the best option.

 

[fromundaman]

It doesn't matter what you hit it with, it just matters WHERE you hit it. He only has 3 places during the whole illusion where he is vulnerable. You have to hit it with something during one of those points (Beginning, middle, and end.).

 

[steep]

I don't know what it is about the Falco MU, I just don't have any experience I guess so I get beat really badly. Of course, the only one's I've played have been on wifi....

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco is like 70/30 Falco's favor or something. He's a pretty ******** character. He's hard for Mario to combo and his moves are difficult to get in on.

@Omari: I'm pretty sure that Mario autoJabs once every 10 frames or so. Given his Jab is active frames 2-3, that means there is a 8 frame gap in between hitboxes when you autoJab. It's not perfect for covering spotdodge, and Falco occasionally can sneak in an attack in between hits. Don't get the wrong idea though, autoJabbing is usually it's pretty safe for covering a dodge.

Put this in perspective. What helps increase your margin of error is the fact you have 3 separate windows to potentially start Jabbing at a moment where if Falco spotdodges, he gets hit by autoJab. Either at the start of his move, at the middle, or at the end. Furthermore if he tries to buffer a move not named shield, your window of opportunity is significantly bigger.

 

[Inferno3044]

So the boards are so dead even the arguments take days to finish?

Lol. I was away for a week with no internet. So necroing a week old argument. Beware of wall due to many quotes.

Mario

Vs Marth (4:6) (in the bible of hippy, it's 6/4 Mario if ur god.)

Marth's metagame

Marth's an amazing character with disjointed hitboxes thanks to his sword,good spacing, long range, fast moves, and a very good pressure game. He's the type to use zoning to reduce your options and capitalize by reaction and mistakes. He does his best when your at the ledge, when ur in the air, or on the platforms.

Primary style l should go: Aggro camping (camp until you find a opening to get inside and stay inside) Camping (just keep running away with fireballs, play a safe game, cape/fludd) Aggro (only if he sucks massive ayuss)

Strategy into winning: Primary objective is to get inside his range and get into close range where he lacks and stay inside as long as possible. What l need to do is usually just fireball and keep baiting him and punishing whatever opening i can get. Get him offstage and control the stage with fireballs and my movement. Playing safe is also good too.

The thing about camping Marth is that it doesn't have him make mistakes and you NEED him to make mistakes. Sitting there and shooting fireballs will not make him have a mistake and he can easily dodge or swat them. I honestly go aggro vs. Marth because although is sounds really stupid, you have a chance at stopping Marth's momentum. Even landing a couple of hits can really ease the pressure

Weaknesses to capitalize: -In the air below him (his weakest zone and just bait)
-Ledge trapping him. (no real options and his greatest weakness on the ledge)
-Gimping him (use all of your options and dont be afraid to have fun offstage)
- Constantly bait him. (if he isnt patient and constantly moves, just punish)
- Less stage control = he can't space as well and not enough area to move.
- Punish landing points = no real landing options, mostly fair and airdodge, so punishing with grab is safe.

How are you going to get below him in the air? You would either have to grab, Utilt, or Usmash him and that requires a mistake on his half.

Ledge trapping and gimping aren't as easy as they look on paper.

You do not have as much stage control as Marth.

I'll give punishing landings if you can actually hit him up, but he has mix ups and just watch out for those.

Counterpicks: Varies on the type of opponent, but BF for comboing and aggro, FD for massive camping and baiting OOS UPb. Halberd to kill early with upsmash.
Bans: deflino, ps1

I would never take Marth to BF. He is so stupidly good here. I take him to Yoshi's as a personal choice of stage. Halberd doesn't sound bad. Jw, why would you ban Delfino or PS1?

EDIT: Do anyone got any good videos of an mario vs marth?

Most vids are highly outdated

Someone tell me how Mario vs Luigi is considered an even match... N-air ***** us in the air, Jab ***** us on the ground. Our range is as crappy as his, so when we can finally get in to deal some sweet damage, so can he. And he does it better than us, and benefits WAY more from trades than we do

Mario doesn't go even for the reasons you stated. It's probably 55:45. 6:4 at worst.

I still have no idea how to deal with a campy Falco.

It's a pain.

Or just go Pikachu and down throw.

Lol

How exactly do you gimp Falco? Cape works like crap on the illusion. Also, if you do get in there, what beats his insane spot dodge? How can you beat a Falco that just does double lasers->illusion constantly?

There are ways but it's not easy.

Falco is like 70/30 Falco's favor or something. He's a pretty ******** character. He's hard for Mario to combo and his moves are difficult to get in on.

@Omari: I'm pretty sure that Mario autoJabs once every 10 frames or so. Given his Jab is active frames 2-3, that means there is a 8 frame gap in between hitboxes when you autoJab. It's not perfect for covering spotdodge, and Falco occasionally can sneak in an attack in between hits. Don't get the wrong idea though, autoJabbing is usually it's pretty safe for covering a dodge.

Put this in perspective. What helps increase your margin of error is the fact you have 3 separate windows to potentially start Jabbing at a moment where if Falco spotdodges, he gets hit by autoJab. Either at the start of his move, at the middle, or at the end. Furthermore if he tries to buffer a move not named shield, your window of opportunity is significantly bigger.

I never found Falco really hard to combo at times but I know what you mean. I actually agree with you on this, but it's only 7:3 if he camps real hard which most people don't have the patience to do. Falco is dumb and Mario is bad.

 

[HeroMystic]

Mario doesn't go even for the reasons you stated.

Its definitely not 6:4 though 55:45 I can definitely agree with. Despite the reasons stated, Mario is faster than Luigi, so the ability to poke and punish is in Mario's favor. Going toe-to-toe is Luigi's favor, but Mario has the better tools and the better defense to control the match.

Its really easy for Luigi to capitalize though. When he punishes, he Can punish hard.

 

[Sleek Media]

I'm finding ducking to be extremely helpful in dealing with Falco. It makes fighting back with full or double hopped fireballs more feasible, which you might as well do until you take about 30% since you'll just eat it if you get grabbed anyway.

Falco's obvious kill on Mario is the laser->dashing usmash (don't know the technical name). Is there any good stuff we can do with baiting this? Any good punishes, or is he totally safe if the laser connects (even with shield)?

 

[Inferno3044]

The technical name is bdacus

 

[Matador]

I'm finding ducking to be extremely helpful in dealing with Falco. It makes fighting back with full or double hopped fireballs more feasible, which you might as well do until you take about 30% since you'll just eat it if you get grabbed anyway.

Falco's obvious kill on Mario is the laser->dashing usmash (don't know the technical name). Is there any good stuff we can do with baiting this? Any good punishes, or is he totally safe if the laser connects (even with shield)?

Nothing reliable, no. We can punish Usmash with just about anything out of shield, and they have to buffer the bdacus really fast to have it connect as a combo, so I don't think they actually confirm that the laser hits before inputting...

But if they see you spotdodging or doing something laggy and punishable, they'll KNOW that the laser connected, and you'll eat the Usmash.

Dunno if that makes any sense, but yeah...just close in on him. Don't let him have enough room to space laser where you can't punish for it. If he's trying to GET space away from you, no shame in tossing out a random cape or two...you KNOW that he's not gonna rolldodge or dash away...he's gonna phantasm.

Sorry, really abstract advice here, but it's all I've got. You still live near MD/VA, right? What Falco's giving you problems?

 

[Sleek Media]

No specific Falco, just the character in general. I actually only play when I go back home to Pittsburgh every other weekend or so. I'm trying to figure him out since he's the worst left to deal with (I've gotten used to fighting MK and most of the other bad match-ups).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221578

Lucario boards are discussing the Mario vs Lucario match up stop on by!

 

[condemned_soul]

who is vudujin?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Mario loses to Wolf, DK and Diddy

 

[Jimmyfosho]

first post in 3 months lol

 

[gothrax]

How many other people have trouble dealing with ZSS ?

Cuz seriously its like nothing i do works -_-

AND I CAN NEVER TIME THE CAPE TO TURN THAT STUN LASER AROUND!

Questions i might ask are,

is her Fspecial punishable?.... ever?
Does she ever have a "falling state"?? Like after my Uspecial? Cuz i get the impression that "plumbing" is pretty much useless here.
If i cape her leg while she does a Bair... does it work?
If perchance?... i get close enough to "do ma thang" is there a specific combo that might... keep her close?

 

[Matador]

How many other people have trouble dealing with ZSS ?

Cuz seriously its like nothing i do works -_-

AND I CAN NEVER TIME THE CAPE TO TURN THAT STUN LASER AROUND!

Questions i might ask are,

is her Fspecial punishable?.... ever?
Does she ever have a "falling state"?? Like after my Uspecial? Cuz i get the impression that "plumbing" is pretty much useless here.
If i cape her leg while she does a Bair... does it work?
If perchance?... i get close enough to "do ma thang" is there a specific combo that might... keep her close?

Her sideB is open for punishment if you predict it and powershield. Thing is, the main way most Zero Suit players will catch you is while you're fireballing. Just be aware of its ranges and know that if you powershield it, she's unsafe.

No, she doesn't have a helpless state that I know of.

Yeah, you can cape her bair. I wouldn't though if you have a choice. It's too slow.

To keep her close during combos, don't end them with Dsmash or Fthrow/Bthrow. A general rule of thumb when comboing is to keep the opponent close and above you. Utilts, Usmash, Dthrow, Jab cancels, and pretty much every aerial besides Fair will do the job.

 

[Coolwhip]

I have a question....
Do you guys ps oos up-b marth's f-air?

Most marths nowadays approach with sh f-air. so it's like stay grounded at the most > ps oos > up-b

 

[Matador]

I do, yeah. I don't think it works if he's fully spaced though.

I upB the **** out of Marth in general either way. Every character that likes to vertically space can get it.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Don't up-b Marth's fair unless he's committing to an approach.

 

[xHnSnx]

Idk if im missing something but the Mk match-up is 30:70; while the other match-ups are set to where the character in question is put first.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Wish this actually had all the tips for all the matchups updated, been playing around with Mario for fun lately and would like to study them.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Falco isn't hard winable just use custom controls and set your shield to a to Y or Z which you can press fast then you can Smash Di ou Grab should be Y and Shield should be Z then if you press Y rapidly and DI towards Falco you can get behind. You have 4 ways to approach falco full jump aerials to adjust your hitbox so attacks miss then 1 cape 2 bair-stutter-F-smash/d-smash/Dash grab depending on DI to attack for damage. 3 practice crouching->Dash-Upsmash for down b/attack response or dash grab for shields. Method 4 crouch and roll depending on current roll speed.

Metaknight 50:50
Dedede 60:40
Marth 55:45
Game and Watch 55:45
Ice Climbers 65:35
Wario 50:50
Snake 50:50
Lucario 50:50
Falco 50:50
Peach 60:40
Olimar 60:40
Wolf 55:45
Toon Link 65:35
Diddy 50:50
Kirby 55:45
Pit 50:50
DK 50:50
Sheik 45:55
Luigi 50:50
Pikachu 45:55
Zero Suit Samus 55:45
Pokemon Trainer 50:50
Fox 45:55
Lucas 50:50
Bowser 45:55
Rob 45:55
Ike 50:50
Sonic 45:55
Jiggs 45:55
Ness 45:55
Zelda 45:55
Samus 40:60
Link 40:60
Yoshi 40:60
Captain Falcon 40:60
Ganon 35:65

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Uh, no. No no no no no no no. There's no way any of these numbers can be serious.

Also if you're going to try to give matchup advice in a thread that hasn't been written in for 8 months, at least try to write in a way that people can understand you.

 

[Coolwhip]

Just when i thought old threads stay dead.....

 

[The Master of Mario]

Falco isn't hard winable just use custom controls and set your shield to a to Y or Z which you can press fast then you can Smash Di ou Grab should be Y and Shield should be Z then if you press Y rapidly and DI towards Falco you can get behind. You have 4 ways to approach falco full jump aerials to adjust your hitbox so attacks miss then 1 cape 2 bair-stutter-F-smash/d-smash/Dash grab depending on DI to attack for damage. 3 practice crouching->Dash-Upsmash for down b/attack response or dash grab for shields. Method 4 crouch and roll depending on current roll speed.

Metaknight 50:50
Dedede 60:40
Marth 55:45
Game and Watch 55:45
Ice Climbers 65:35
Wario 50:50
Snake 50:50
Lucario 50:50
Falco 50:50
Peach 60:40
Olimar 60:40
Wolf 55:45
Toon Link 65:35
Diddy 50:50
Kirby 55:45
Pit 50:50
DK 50:50
Sheik 45:55
Luigi 50:50
Pikachu 45:55
Zero Suit Samus 55:45
Pokemon Trainer 50:50
Fox 45:55
Lucas 50:50
Bowser 45:55
Rob 45:55
Ike 50:50
Sonic 45:55
Jiggs 45:55
Ness 45:55
Zelda 45:55
Samus 40:60
Link 40:60
Yoshi 40:60
Captain Falcon 40:60
Ganon 35:65

Marth
Mario has Cape Fireballs and B-air D-air andup-special. Cape/Fireballs on recovery D-air leads nicely into U-tilt Retreating fireballs work depending on percentage and spacing. D-air is your get out of my face move. B-air is your mess with their timing move. Cape takes Proper spacing not to ger hit and can also be used to float above hitboxes best followed with FF-Airdodge it slows the timing can be used as a third jump.D-throw->Dash Behind Marth FF F-air/B-air-/>Grab can be used if they have appropriate damage 0-30% and tend not to jump. If they jump you can juggle. You can get a grab by timing fireballs and rolls so they shield. If you chase the fireball used when you are fast falling out of a approaching shorthop you can time it for a walking grab or roll to b-air or up-smash up smash clanks with f-smash. you can DI Up and away on marth out of grab combos and change your hitbox with U-air. Depending on the speed of the airdodge and fall speed you can just airdodge or fastfall->airdodge if they approach.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Falco is like 70/30 Falco's favor or something. He's a pretty ******** character. He's hard for Mario to combo and his moves are difficult to get in on.

@Omari: I'm pretty sure that Mario autoJabs once every 10 frames or so. Given his Jab is active frames 2-3, that means there is a 8 frame gap in between hitboxes when you autoJab. It's not perfect for covering spotdodge, and Falco occasionally can sneak in an attack in between hits. Don't get the wrong idea though, autoJabbing is usually it's pretty safe for covering a dodge.

Put this in perspective. What helps increase your margin of error is the fact you have 3 separate windows to potentially start Jabbing at a moment where if Falco spotdodges, he gets hit by autoJab. Either at the start of his move, at the middle, or at the end. Furthermore if he tries to buffer a move not named shield, your window of opportunity is significantly bigger.

you have D-smash/Reverse Crouch-> Up-smash for jab

D-air combos well in air as does Nair.

U-smash leads to D-air juggling

 

[The Master of Mario]

SH-Nair is best on clanks and leads into D-smash

 

[Coolwhip]

Throughout everything you said about the marth matchup, you didn't say one thing about Mario's fludd and how it can benefit against marth.

 

[MP8]

Falco isn't hard winable just use custom controls and set your shield to a to Y or Z which you can press fast then you can Smash Di ou Grab should be Y and Shield should be Z then if you press Y rapidly and DI towards Falco you can get behind. You have 4 ways to approach falco full jump aerials to adjust your hitbox so attacks miss then 1 cape 2 bair-stutter-F-smash/d-smash/Dash grab depending on DI to attack for damage. 3 practice crouching->Dash-Upsmash for down b/attack response or dash grab for shields. Method 4 crouch and roll depending on current roll speed.

Metaknight 50:50

I kidd you not when I say I stopped reading this post right here at the MK match up. Done.

 

[Coolwhip]

This is one of the reasons why I don't like to read anything from fresh mario mains, esp the ones who don't know a single thing about the plumber or his match-ups.

 

[mars16]

i was eating something when i read that post, i almost choked on the mk 50 50 part

 

[The Master of Mario]

I kidd you not when I say I stopped reading this post right here at the MK match up. Done.

What do you think about the Ike matchup All the videos had pretty bad Ikes. They could escape U-air strings with any of these moves with good reaction time.

Counter
FF(DI away)-U-air
Up-special
N-air
Mario's U-air is
-17 advantage

And all these moves<17

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thre...pdate-7-23-added-counter-counter-attack.4610/
http://smashboards.com/threads/extensive-mario-frame-data.219407/

 

[The Master of Mario]

What do you think about the Ike matchup All the videos had pretty bad Ikes. They could escape U-air strings with any of these moves with good reaction time.

Counter
FF(DI away)-U-air
Up-special
N-air
Mario's U-air is
-17 advantage

And all these moves<17

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thre...pdate-7-23-added-counter-counter-attack.4610/
http://smashboards.com/threads/extensive-mario-frame-data.219407/

What about this Ike he seemed to DI down pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqESMc8hS-8

 

[MP8]

What do you think about the Ike matchup All the videos had pretty bad Ikes. They could escape U-air strings with any of these moves with good reaction time.

Counter
FF(DI away)-U-air
Up-special
N-air
Mario's U-air is
-17 advantage

And all these moves<17

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thre...pdate-7-23-added-counter-counter-attack.4610/
http://smashboards.com/threads/extensive-mario-frame-data.219407/

What? Lol. I only referred to your wonderfully inaccurate 50/50 Meta Knight match up ratio; where did you bring up Ike from?

Sorry my man, I think you're a little confused. Lol.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Mario Can Beat Metaknight with Fire Phantom B-airs Where the Fireball Phantoms an attack lowering its priority and Increasing its speed. You have to have very fast B reversal to get Fireball and B-air out. It's just like Fludd causing moves to lag the same thing happens with fireballs. The amount of Stun depends on HOW MUCH of the fireball is in the attack. You can beat Snake's mortar slide with Fireball Short Range Easy or SH Fireball Far range harder to time because it bounces->SH RAR B-air or SH-N-air this way The whole fireball has to land under the mortar and then you hit with B-air during the reduced priority.