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The New Mario Match-Up Index

Calebyte

Smash Lord
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Oct 4, 2009
Messages
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Santa Cruz, CA
The New Mario Match-Up Index


Photo by Virtualgirl


INTRODUCTION

As most of you know, mastery of Mario requires a thorough knowledge of every matchup.

Hero Mystic said:
Mario is a character that relies on making openings and capitalizes on exploiting weakened traits...Mario mains require an extensive knowledge on all match-ups to know what options works and what doesn't. It is never an easy ride for Mario.
With this in mind, I thought it would be useful to compile detailed summaries of each match-up in one place. This will provide a quick and easy reference for anyone looking for information on a specific match-up.

Match up discussion will take place in the individual threads listed below. When discussion on a particular match up has concluded, a detailed summary will be placed here.

Contents

MATCHUP DISCUSSION THREADS

TO BE DISCUSSED
  • Diddy Kong
  • Falco
  • Wario
  • Marth
  • Ice Climbers
  • Pikachu
  • King Dedede
  • Mr. Game & Watch
  • Lucario
  • Toon Link
  • Kirby
  • ROB
  • Pit
  • Donkey Kong
  • Luigi
  • Wolf
  • Sonic
  • Ike
  • Sheik
  • Ness
  • Yoshi
  • Lucas
  • Mario
  • Bowser
  • Captain Falcon
  • Jigglypuff
  • Link
  • Zelda
  • Ganondorf

THREADS OF REFERENCE
 

Calebyte

Smash Lord
Premium
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
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Santa Cruz, CA
The Matchups

:metaknight: Metaknight (30:70) Updated (WIP), 12/1/2010

[collapse="Khum!"]

Summary (WIP)

Introduction
Probably Mario's most difficult match up, Meta Knight is superior to Mario in nearly every respect. There is almost nothing that Mario can exploit in this match-up to gain an advantage. In order to stand a chance, Mario must legitimately outplay MK. It's as simple as that--but extraordinarily difficult to do successfully.

Knowing Your Opponent
More than any other match-up, being familiar with Meta Knight's moveset and metagame is of paramount importance. If you have not done so, I recommend you read the Meta Knight guide here.

Managing the Tornado
While MK's tornado can initially be intimidating, Mario has the tools to counter it effectively, though this requires precision and proper timing. Mario's d-air, up-smash, and up-b can all beat MK's tornado if spaced properly. For details, check out UberMario's thread on Mario's priorities.

Tactics
MK beats Mario both on the ground and in the air. However, knowing how to fight in both places can help even the playing field.

Mario does have some tools while on the ground. Jab, Ftilt, Dsmash, and our grab follow-ups all give us a fighting chance to build damage quick enough to even the playing field. (Matador)

Despite MK's recovery power and glides, he's often less potent in the air when over the stage. This is kind of mixed for Mario, because while Mario has way more approaches in the air against him, he also has to deal with attacks that are hard to reliably penetrate, and unless they are high on damage, UpB'ing them [which works on all of his aerials, Tornado, and sometimes even Dimensional Cape, Shuttle Loop, but not so much Drill Rush] is usually not a good choice because they can come right back onto you when you're in a freefall state. The best approach is with B-Airs and Fireball-reversals, just because they give you range and allow you to change direction and momentum rapidly. Unfortunately, Mario's creative side rarely shows offensively in this matchup, but due to the way Drill Rush "pops upward" at the end of it's animation, you can occasionally take advantage of it to FLUDD+Cape+Edgeguard them off the stage, it works similarly with Dimensional Cape, but that requires a hard read to work. (Ubermario)

Dair's pretty bad in this match-up aside from breaking nado...it's probably the main reason why this match-up bugs me. Uair has to be used intelligently as well...it's incredibly difficult to follow-up anything against MK. Pokes and reads are the way to go here. (Matador)



Counterpick Stages: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island

Videos

[yt]2Ox2H30Rw04[/yt]​

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:dedede: King Dedede
[collapse="Get Grabbed!"]

Summary

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:gw: Mr. Game and Watch (65:35)

[collapse="Get turtled!"]


Summary

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:marth:Marth (62:38) Updated!

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Summary
contributed by Inferno

Marth's Metagame

Marth is an amazing character with very good spacing, long range, fast moves, and a very good pressure game. Marth overall can fight most of the cast without a big problem (60:40+ in Marth's favor) and Mario is no exception even with Boss the Marth Slayer.


Things to Watch Out For

Basically Marth himself if a big threat to Mario. Other than Mario's Stutter-Stepped Fsmash, Marth completely outranges Mario. His fair will take you in the air and dtilt on the ground. Dancing Blade does well against Mario, but with proper DI you can avoid the final hit. He can take stage presence without much problem with his good aggressive game. Watch out for his tipper smashes as well. They kill very early, but you can live to a fairly high percentage if he doesn't hit you with a tipper.


General Strategy for Matchup

Fireballs can somewhat be exploited in this match. They halt his approach a bit and force him into shield. Get inside Marth's zone is difficult due to his range and speed. You can't be predictable or you won't win. If you can get in, then things can turn your way for a bit.


Weaknesses Mario Can Exploit

One of the biggest and most noticeable things is that Marth doesn't have a projectile and Mario does which makes it easier to camp Marth. Mario can also exploit FIHL since his fair takes quite a bit of hit lag from it. Marth also has a pretty poor boxing game while Mario's is amazing.

Another weaknesses that Mario can exploit is Marth's recovery. Gimping him will be no problem. Marth also has a pretty poor boxing game while Mario's is amazing. However, as said before, Marth's excellent spacing game will make it hard for you to use your boxing game.


Most Valuable Asset for Mario

Fireballs to me just have a little bit more help against Marth than anything else of Mario's. Fsmash can be used to punish, since it outranges many of Marth's attacks. Other than that, Mario's options are fairly limited.


Things to Avoid

Avoid getting hit off stage and being forced onto the ledge. Marth can exploit Mario in that state since he can't do much against Marth. Also do not give him stage control. This will lead to you getting hit off the ledge. I personally now try and stay in the middle of the stage whenever possible so that I don't get hit off and exploited.


Videos

Coming soon.

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:popo:Ice Climbers (60:40)

[collapse="Yah! Yah! Yah! Yah!"]



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:warioc:Wario (60:40)

[collapse="Wah-wah-WAH!!!"]


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:snake:Snake (60:40)

[collapse="Poom-pow! 21%!"]


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:lucario:Lucario (55:45)

[collapse="Mewtwo who?"]


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:falco:Falco (55:45)

[collapse="Hands of my ????"]


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:peach:Peach (55:45)

[collapse="Oh, did I win?"]


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:olimar:Olimar (55:45)




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:wolf:Wolf (52:48)




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:toonlink:Toon Link (55:45)




Summary

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:diddy:Diddy Kong (50:50) Updated!

[collapse="Pull it out!"]


Summary

Diddy is a character that is recently rising to fame in Brawl. His excellent zoning ability as well as his constant pressure tactics make him an appealing character, and is currently a contender for top-tier placement. Mario however is a formidable match for him for various reasons.

Diddy's greatest quality is his bananas (naners). In which they are the key reason to his zoning, damage-racking, and overall pressure. They are the bread 'n butter of his gameplay for just about any Diddy. Combined with the fact that he has the faster throw in the game (his throw comes out in lesser frames and ends in lesser frames), his moveset, particularly his lagless Dash attack, high-damage F-Smash, and the monkey hump, he can give you a run for your money.

Mario however counters Diddy's naners effectively with the cape, in which if you cape them, they do nothing and counts as your bananas. Diddy however can simply dash grab to regain control of them, but this can be countered in a number of ways, such as fireballs, cape, or grabbing the naner yourself. On that note, it's recommended that you know how to DACIT (Boost Toss AKA "Link's Bombsliding") and/or JCT/RJCT (Jump Cancel Throw/Reverse Jump Cancel Throw) to increase your effectiveness on using naners against Diddy, since it's very possible to follow-up with just about any move out of it. Otherwise, secluding them by throwing them upwards or keeping them at the edge of the stage is doable.

Moveset-wise, Diddy suffers from the same weakness Mario has: A lack of range. This makes Mario's entire moveset usable against Diddy. Pound for pound, Mario's attributes are better than Diddy's as his attacks generally come out faster, less lag, and a high ability to combo Diddy thanks to his size and weight.

Things to look out for ground-wise is Diddy's F-tilt, which has the ability to make a wall to stop Mario from getting past without the use of Cape or F-Smash. His jab, while less effective than F-tilt, also does the same thing, but is much more laggy and punishable. His Dash attack, to be blunt, is ****ing annoying as ****. It's lagless, has high priority against other ground moves, and virtually unpunishable. You either need to fireball this or contest with N-air to beat it. Diddy's D-Smash is inferior to Mario's, but is a decent kill move. F-Smash is his best kill move, but the first hit can be DI'd outwards or upwards to avoid the second hit. And if you do get hit by the second hit, it's a horrible vertical killer, so just DI upward and momentum break.

Aerial-wise, watch out for F-air, his best aerial killer, and Side-B, the monkey hump which can turn into the monkey foot and contest with B-air, which trades hit if Mario doesn't space correctly. Otherwise Mario trumps Diddy in the air. U-air juggles are viable, and just about any aerial besides F-air comes out faster than Diddy's.

Off-stage, Mario vastly beats Diddy with the usual tools. You can fireball, FLUDD, or cape his Side-B (Do not run into Monkey hump. It will gimp you), and N-air, fireball, or Cape his Up-B. Coupled with a ledgehog, this is usually enough to gimp him. With good DI, Mario usually won't be gimped by Diddy. Though, if you're caught in recovering low, watch out for banana gimps and F-air, and make sure to cape stall if he edgehogs.

Overall, this battle will mainly depend if you can break down Diddy's game with his bananas. If you can't, then Diddy automatically wins. If you can, then this match-up is yours.

Counterpick stages: Battlefield, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise.

Ban: Final Destination

Videos

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:kirby2:Kirby (50:50)





Summary

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:pit:Pit (50:50)

[collapse="Nice try!"]


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:dk2:Donkey Kong (50:50)





Summary

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:shiek:Sheik (50:50)




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:luigi2:Luigi (50:50)




Summary

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:pikachu2:Pikachu (50:50)




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:zerosuitsamus:Zero Suit Samus (50:50)




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:charizard:Charizard (50:50)




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:squirtle:Squirtle (50:50)




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:fox:Fox (50:50)




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:lucas:Lucas (50:50)




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:bowser2:Bowser (45:55)




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:rob:R.O.B. (45:55)




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:ike:Ike (45:55)





Summary

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:sonic:Sonic (45:55) Updated!

[collapse="Go!"]

Summary

Sonic's metagame revolves almost entirely around punishing. His high speed and air mobility make him one of the most effective punishers in the game. Most Sonics will generally run away and wait for you to get sloppy, then punish.

Of course, Mario's fireballs hamper Sonic quite a bit, since they are fairly safe and will force him to make an approach. Fireballs come out fairly quickly and a prevent Sonic from running all over the place.

Also, Mario's aerial game out prioritizes nearly everyhting Sonic has. Nair works wonders, plowing right through Sonic's aerials. D-air is also useful for it's priority and punishing his lag. Uair is also useful, but you won't be juggling Sonic due to his up-b.

However, while Mario beats Sonic on stage, the tables are turned when the fight goes off stage. As mentioned earlier, Sonic's air mobility (and therefore recovery) is extraordinary. Therefore, Sonic is the gimp-artist in this matchup, not Mario.
He'll try to drop a spring on you if you've used your second jump. He may also try to bair you offstage.
Conserve your second jump whenever possible to avoid being spring gimped. If Sonic moves toward you to bair you to death, counter with nair, or ub-B if you're close enough to the ledge.

On stage, Sonic will try to confuse you with some 31337 mind games, so stay alert. In particular, he'll try to run behind you and reverse f-smash.

Avoid spot dodging and rolling. Punishing dodges is Sonic's bread and butter. Always shield. As long as you are shielding, he can't do anything that can kill you. He has to trick you or punish something laggy to land a KO move. Remember, Sonic can punish almost anything with a grab, so play safe, stay on your toes, and this match is yours.

CPs: Battlefield, Smashville
Bans: Yoshi's Island, Final Destination


Videos

Coming soon.

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:jigglypuff:Jigglypuff (45:55)




Summary

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:ness2:Ness (45:55)




Summary

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:zelda:Zelda (45:55)




Summary

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:samus2:Samus (40:60)




Summary

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:ivysaur:Ivysaur (40:60)




Summary

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:link2:Link (40:60) Updated!

[collapse="Shaaarraaaat!!!"]

Summary
contributed by Big-Omar


Link's Metagame


Link is a legit character that has 3 projectiles and a good spacing tool to use if one masters him. He is only hindered by his crap recovery. Good Links will not fall into predictable patterns and use all or most of his ATs to confuse you. He has a strong camping game and it will be hard to approach him. He's going to give you some trouble if you don't know the match up, but Link is still beatable.


Things to Watch Out For

You mostly have to watch out for his projectiles, his ATs, and Zair. His boomerang will be used for edgeguarding, approaching, and kill set ups. Link can gale gaurd you by throwing his boomerang towards the stage, which will bounce off and push you away. Link can also use a boomerang at close range to knock you down, followed up by an arrow for a Boomerang-Arrow lock, which will force you into a stand up animation and is a good set up for kills. You can tech the ground when hit or dodge the boomerang to avoid this. Bombs will be used for damage and for combos. Link can also throw a bomb down then footstool you, followed up by an Nair for a jab lock set up. Arrows will primarily be used for edgeguarding and for some quick hits by using arrow canceling. Link has multiple ATs, so he will be unpredictable. He can DAC, Arrow Cancel, Zair with bomb, Jab lock, Jab Cancel, Fsmash with a bomb in hand, gale gaurd, Boomeranf-Arrow lock, pivot boosting, and bombslide. Remebering what each one does will be hard, but you'll manage. His most used ATs are bomb slides and DAC, so be aware of those the most. Zairing is very annoying, it will be Link's main spacing move. It will be very annoying to dodge since it can poke through your sheild. But if you tilt your sheild up, it wont poke through. Also, Link can use his zair up to 3 times at the edge for invincibility frames, so be careful when recovering. His Jabs should also be noted because they are a good, and his only, gtfo move. They do respectable damage and can Jab cancel into grabs, dsmash, spin attack and another Jab.


General Strategy for Matchup

You are going to spend most of your time dodging his projectiles and zairs since thats what Link does best. The best way to counter this is to cape his projectiles or FLUDD them. FLUDD will go through his projectiles and also push Link away, putting him into an uncomfortable position. Full hopping fire balls will generally be a good idea against Link. Link is heavy, so getting in combos will be easy at low percents. Link has few quick attacks at close range, so once you get in, stay in. Link's recovery is very poor, so gimping him will be no problem. Bair,Uair, Nair,Cape, and FLUDD will easily gimp him. Only thing you should watch out for is his incredible DI. Killing with Usmash is out of the question unless he is at over 200 percent. Save Fsmash if your not going to gimp him.


Weaknesses Mario Can Exploit

One of the most obvious weaknesses that Mario can exploit is his crap recovery. Gimping him will be no problem. Link is also slow and has laggy attacks so punishing will be fairly easy since Mario has quick attacks. Also, caping boomerang will help you a bit since it will push Link back.


Most Valuable Asset for Mario

Mario's most valuable asset in this match up will be his Cape,FLUDD, and fire balls. Cape and FLUDD will easily gimp Link and ruin his camping game. Fire balls will easily control Link and limit his options on how to approach. Fire Balls may also be used for effective edgegaurding.


Things to Avoid

Things you should aviod are his kill set ups since he can kill at respectible percents. He jab cancel to Dsmash for a kill around 120. He can also kill with FF Bair (only first hit) to Utilt at about 130. He can also use Boomerang-Arrow lock to set up a kill for Dair or Fsmash, his best kill moves. His Boomerang can also pull you in towards Link if it is returning for an easy Fsmash. Bombstool to Dair is also a very dangerous combo if Link sets it up correctly. Just avoid his projectiles and kill set ups and you should be able to win.


Videos

Flameleon vs Legan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY1xls5hN4s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIvGrlClPZA

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:yoshi2:Yoshi (40:60)




Summary

Coming soon.

Videos

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:falcon:Captain Falcon (40:60)




Summary

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:ganondorf:Ganondorf (35:65)




Summary

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DtJ XeroXen

The biggest fraud
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Stop contributing more than me.

And I should be able to do a few of these, although I don't want to look through the opinions of other people... because I'm lazy. I'll make decisions on which characters I'd like to write summaries on later. (And yes, I guess I'll sift through opinions of OTHER people. D:<)
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
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Good stuff, Cale. Minor nitpick due to me being the master of essays, but you should center the title and picture for better appeal.

I can take care of Chaingrab, Diddy, and Ike pretty easily. Everything else will probably just be input.
 

Big-Omar

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 4, 2009
Messages
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Chi-Town Baby!
I guess I can do Link and Luigi, and probably Falco since I fight Link and Luigi often, and I second Falco.
 

hippiedude92

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
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Location
Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
i'll do link, dk and luigi and marth i guess.

i play prolly best ec link and ec dk and i play luigi too

edit: and i'll try marth write up too lol i play this matchup with just about every ny marth.

should be a easy write up.
 

Inferno3044

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Teaneck, NJ/Richmond VA
I feel like I can get Marth when I get the time to write up a summary. Play the best Marth in NY/NJ.

Edit: Nvm. Apparently Hippiedude will do it. Good idea for this though.
 

Calebyte

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Any particular format you want for the summaries?
Good question. No rigid format, but something along these lines would be nice:

  • Key components of opponent's metagame
  • Specific things to watch out for
  • General strategy for matchup
  • Weaknesses Mario can exploit
  • Most valuable asset for Mario
  • Things to avoid
  • Anything else important

C'mon guys, you clearly have forgotten a character in this matchup guide. :(
I don't consider PT an actual character for the purpose of this thread...summaries of his Pokemon should suffice unless everyone says otherwise.

we can combine some of our input together input just in case both of us missed some key pointers and we'll just add it together?
Yeah, summaries can be combined, no problem. :)
 

Big-Omar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
390
Location
Chi-Town Baby!
Key components of opponent's metagame

Link is a legit character that has 3 projectiles and a good spacing tool to use if one masters him. He is only hindered by his crap recovery. Good Links will not fall into predictable patterns and use all or most of his ATs to confuse you. He has a strong camping game and it will be hard to approach him. He's going to give you some trouble if you don't know the match up, but Link is still beatable.

Specific things to watch out for

You mostly have to watch out for his projectiles, his ATs, and Zair. His boomerang will be used for edgeguarding, approaching, and kill set ups. Link can gale gaurd you by throwing his boomerang towards the stage, which will bounce off and push you away. Link can also use a boomerang at close range to knock you down, followed up by an arrow for a Boomerang-Arrow lock, which will force you into a stand up animation and is a good set up for kills. You can tech the ground when hit or dodge the boomerang to avoid this. Bombs will be used for damage and for combos. Link can also throw a bomb down then footstool you, followed up by an Nair for a jab lock set up. Arrows will primarily be used for edgeguarding and for some quick hits by using arrow canceling. Link has multiple ATs, so he will be unpredictable. He can DAC, Arrow Cancel, Zair with bomb, Jab lock, Jab Cancel, Fsmash with a bomb in hand, gale gaurd, Boomeranf-Arrow lock, pivot boosting, and bombslide. Remebering what each one does will be hard, but you'll manage. His most used ATs are bomb slides and DAC, so be aware of those the most. Zairing is very annoying, it will be Link's main spacing move. It will be very annoying to dodge since it can poke through your sheild. But if you tilt your sheild up, it wont poke through. Also, Link can use his zair up to 3 times at the edge for invincibility frames, so be careful when recovering. His Jabs should also be noted because they are a good, and his only, gtfo move. They do respectable damage and can Jab cancel into grabs, dsmash, spin attack and another Jab.

General strategy for matchup

You are going to spend most of your time dodging his projectiles and zairs since thats what Link does best. The best way to counter this is to cape his projectiles or FLUDD them. FLUDD will go through his projectiles and also push Link away, putting him into an uncomfortable position. Full hopping fire balls will generally be a good idea against Link. Link is heavy, so getting in combos will be easy at low percents. Link has few quick attacks at close range, so once you get in, stay in. Link's recovery is very poor, so gimping him will be no problem. Bair,Uair, Nair,Cape, and FLUDD will easily gimp him. Only thing you should watch out for is his incredible DI. Killing with Usmash is out of the question unless he is at over 200 percent. Save Fsmash if your not going to gimp him.

Weaknesses Mario can exploit

One of the most obvious weaknesses that Mario can exploit is his crap recovery. Gimping him will be no problem. Link is also slow and has laggy attacks so punishing will be fairly easy since Mario has quick attacks. Also, caping boomerang will help you a bit since it will push Link back.

Most valuable asset for Mario

Mario's most valuable asset in this match up will be his Cape,FLUDD, and fire balls. Cape and FLUDD will easily gimp Link and ruin his camping game. Fire balls will easily control Link and limit his options on how to approach. Fire Balls may also be used for effective edgegaurding.

Things to avoid

Things you should aviod are his kill set ups since he can kill at respectible percents. He jab cancel to Dsmash for a kill around 120. He can also kill with FF Bair (only first hit) to Utilt at about 130. He can also use Boomerang-Arrow lock to set up a kill for Dair or Fsmash, his best kill moves. His Boomerang can also pull you in towards Link if it is returning for an easy Fsmash. Bombstool to Dair is also a very dangerous combo if Link sets it up correctly. Just avoid his projectiles and kill set ups and you should be able to win.
 

DtJ XeroXen

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I stopped reading at "Link is a legit character"

But it looks like a good summary. (I'm sure it's decent, but I actually stopped reading there so I wouldn't know.)
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
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Link feels a bit glorified in that summary, but the information is true. Only problem I see is the talk of ATs. A majority of ATs don't have real application in matches and are mostly situational. Bomb-sliding and DACUS will be the most used. Some Links use Pivot boosting for mindgames and spacing. One thing to note is Link's Bomb-Footstool-D-air combo that works if you allow it to set up correctly.

Link's jabs should be noted though. They're pretty good, does noticable damage, and is his best, or rather only GTFO move.
 

Big-Omar

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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Well, I feel that the ATs should be noted because Link has a bunch of them, so you never know you what he'll do. Especially Fsmash with bomb, good mind games. I'll edit it tho.
 

HeroMystic

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Bomb Smashing is okay. I use it more than I should, but its freaken cool. I also wanna say that charging your smash attacks is fine for this MU and helps if you're having KO problems. I don't know if U-Smash beats Link's D-air, probably not.

Also, with all the juggles you'll be doing on Link, you don't have to save F-Smash, and using it as a punisher against Link is very good since F-Smash outranges Link by a considerable margin. By the time you're done juggling him F-Smash should be fresh anyway.

Working on Chaingrab.
 

HeroMystic

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DeDeDe, AKA "Chaingrab", is a character that has risen and fallen within Brawl's competitive scene. Once thought to be Mario's hardest MU, but is now set at being questionable with the exploits and tactics used against this character. Nonetheless though, Chaingrab is a difficult match-up no matter how much you slice it, purely because of his grabs and spacing ability.

Chaingrab's most popular quality is of course his chaingrab. Pending on the stage, it can easily lead to about 20-40% damage, dependent on how stale the move is. Most of all though it can lead you to being thrown off stage and a possible gimp, though this is easily remedied with good DI, saving your second jump, and good use of Mario's Up-B. Other nusciances are his range abuse and his DeeDees that block fireballs and demands that you either FH them or move closer. Gordos and Waddle Dees are big annoyances, more particularly the Waddle Dees because they attack you. Chaingrabs's F-tilt and B-air are his main spacing tools that do a good job at keeping Mario out, but Mario can Powershield F-tilt and punish, and B-air can be beaten by U-tilt and U-Smash. Also, watch out for kamikaze attempts. If you get caught in it, act like you're grabbed and go crazy on the controller, it's actually very possible to break out.

Lastly, keep an eye on your damage. If you're ~120%, Chaingrab will more than likely go for the infinite, since at that point it's realistically improbable that you'll break out. Below that though, it's very possible to break out, so make sure your grab break skills are top notch.


To combat Chaingrab, you have to make good use of shield pressure tactics to discourage shielding. Fireballing is very good for baiting this since you can follow-up with D-air, get behind, then follow into B-air or U-Smash before Chaingrab can react accordingly. Despite Chaingrab loving shieldgrabs, his shield really really sucks due to his size, so shield poking with attacks like Dash Attack and B-air is very possible.

Once Chaingrab is in the air, Mario has the advantage. U-tilt and U-Smash beats Chaingrab's D-air and B-air, and you can legitimately juggle him for a good amount of damage. If Chaingrab lands and you're not close enough to just blitz him again, reset the situation and shield pressure him again. Be paitent if he's trying to space with F-tilt and bait grabs. As a note though, vertical spacing with B-air and Cape Jump works wonderfully on Chaingrab, since it avoid grabs. Not so much on F-tilt though.

Chaingrab is unbelievably heavy, so getting the KO can be tedious and is probably the hardest part of this match-up. Thankfully, Chaingrab's only good KO move is U-tilt, as all of his other possible KO moves (B-throw, D-tilt, Dash Attack, F-Smash, B-air) will either be incredibly stale, hard to hit with, or DI'd considerably. Sliding U-Smash and using F-Smash's range to your advantage is very important. Gimping probably won't happen much either (Maybe once or twice per set), but take advantage of this if the opportunity arises because it's that much helpful. Though, do try to fireball him if he's using his multijumps for the sake of forcing his Up-B. This can lead to the use of Cape and FLUDD. On another note though, U-Smash beats Chaingrabs' Up-B hitbox, so Sliding U-Smash is applicable in this case.


In conclusion, this match-up is mainly difficult because Chaingrab should realistically be living longer than Mario should, while at the same time his damage rate is roughly the same as Mario's thanks to the chaingrab and damage on his moves. Nevertheless, it's far from unwinnable. Mario just has to be very aggressive in this match and not allow Chaingrab to set up his spacing methods.

Stages To CP: Battlefield, Brinstar, Norfair, Rainbow Cruise(If infinite is a problem), Jungle Japes.
Stages to Ban: Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium, Delfino(Wall infinites and Walk-offs),

----

If you want this to be formatted better I can do that, I was kinda lazy.
 

Inferno3044

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I'm going to make it kinda short for Marth because I don't care to go extremely deep into it. I'll get the main points though. I will go into more detail if you want me to.

Key components of opponent's metagame

Marth is an amazing character with very good spacing, long range, fast moves, and a very good pressure game. Marth overall can fight most of the cast without a big problem (60:40+ in Marth's favor) and Mario is no exception even with Boss the Marth Slayer.

Specific things to watch out for

Basically Marth himself if a big threat to Mario. Other than Mario's Stutter-Stepped Fsmash, Marth completely outranges Mario. His fair will take you in the air and dtilt on the ground. Dancing Blade does well against Mario, but with proper DI you can avoid the final hit. He can take stage presence without much problem with his good aggressive game. Watch out for his tipper smashes as well. They kill very early, but you can live to a fairly high percentage if he doesn't hit you with a tipper.

General strategy for matchup

Fireballs can somewhat be exploited in this match. They halt his approach a bit and force him into shield. Get inisde Marth's zone is difficult due to his range and speed. You can't be predictable or you won't win. If you can get in, then things can turn your way for a bit.

Weaknesses Mario can exploit

One of the most obvious weaknesses that Mario can exploit is his crap recovery. Gimping him will be no problem. Link is also slow and has laggy attacks so punishing will be fairly easy since Mario has quick attacks. Also, caping boomerang will help you a bit since it will push Link back. Mario can also exploit FIHL since his fair takes quite a bit of hit lag from it. Marth also has a pretty poor boxing game while Mario's is amazing. As said before, Marth's excellent spacing game will make it hard for you to use your boxing game. Gimping him is possible a
unless you're Pierce in which case you will not gimp Marth unless he makes a dumb mistake like holding on the ledge for too long and getting a stage spike.

Most valuable asset for Mario

Fireballs to me just have a little bit more help against Marth than anything else of Mario's. I guess Fsmash can do something if he misses since it outranges him. OTher than that, nothing really stands out for Mario to use.

Things to avoid

Avoid getting hit off stage and being forced onto the ledge. Marth can exploit Mario in that state since he can't do much against Marth. Also do not give him stage control. This will lead to you getting hit off the ledge. I personally now try and stay in the middle of the stage whenever possible so that I don't ge hit off and exploited.
 

Naisora

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Fireballing is very good for baiting
I disagree. What usually happens to me when I try to bait with fireballs is that D3 blacks or powershields most of them and he punishs with a chaingrab. I don't know why,against D3 that tactic never worked for me. I only use fireballs against him when I approach.
 

HeroMystic

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Avoid cherrypicking.

To combat Chaingrab, you have to make good use of shield pressure tactics to discourage shielding. Fireballing is very good for baiting this since you can follow-up with D-air, get behind, then follow into B-air or U-Smash before Chaingrab can react accordingly. Despite Chaingrab loving shieldgrabs, his shield really really sucks due to his size, so shield poking with attacks like Dash Attack and B-air is very possible.
 

Naisora

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lol I'm not "cherrypicking" but as far as I can imagine if I wanted to get behind D3 after a D-Air I would either have to space or roll.If I space there's a big chance that lets say D3 can block my B-Air or Usmash,and he will be able to punish it with his grabs. The only thing Im not understanding from this is how he will get confuse and not see the Bair or Usmash coming. Or maybe Im just getting confused on how to get behind him. I don't know.
 

HeroMystic

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lol I'm not "cherrypicking"
Cherrypicking is when you pluck a statement supporting an argument then confront that point while ignoring the rest. In short, what you quoted was pulled out of context.

Anyways.

but as far as I can imagine if I wanted to get behind D3 after a D-Air I would either have to space or roll.
No, you simply drift behind Chaingrab as you're applying shield pressure.

If I space there's a big chance that lets say D3 can block my B-Air or Usmash,and he will be able to punish it with his grabs.
If you're behind Chaingrab he has to pivot grab. B-air and U-Smash comes out faster than he can apply the pivot since he is also shielding.
 

Calebyte

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Great summaries guys! Link, Chaingrab, and Marth added to the OP. Formatting is fine, Hero. I like that you included stages to CP and ban. That should be done for every summary I think.
 

Big-Omar

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Hey Caleb, can you update the Link summary with these CP stages and Bans?

Stages to CP: Any stage you feel comfortable on.
Stages to Ban: Final Destination to cut down on Link's camping. This isn't necessary, but it helps.
 

Inferno3044

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Editing the Things to Exploit Section for Marth. There was something I left out and I have things from Link in there since I copied that one and just changed it. Change that section to this:

One of the biggest and most noticeable things is that Marth doesn't have a projectile and Mario does which makes it easier to camp Marth. Mario can also exploit FIHL since his fair takes quite a bit of hit lag from it. Marth also has a pretty poor boxing game while Mario's is amazing. As said before, Marth's excellent spacing game will make it hard for you to use your boxing game. Gimping him is possible a unless you're Pierce.

Stage Choice: Pick a stage you're comfortable on. Both characters do well on similar stages. Mario gets more of an advantage on YI and Marth gets more of an advantage on BF.

EDIT: Random thing here and I think it was said above. Whoever made the summary for Link made him sound so much better than he really is. Regardless, it's pretty accurate.

EDIT 2: Put me down for covering Yoshi. I'm probably gonna be doing some training with DeltaCod in the future and I'll learn the Yoshi MU. Not enough experience yet.
 

Big-Omar

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Lol sorry Inferno, I was pretty biased towards Link when I made it. I just like him too much.

And I can help you with the Yoshi match up. I'm like the only one that has fought a legit Yoshi at my level.
 

Inferno3044

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Lol sorry Inferno, I was pretty biased towards Link when I made it. I just like him too much.

And I can help you with the Yoshi match up. I'm like the only one that has fought a legit Yoshi at my level.
DeltaCod is legit. He got 9th out of 92 at an NY/NJ event going all Yoshi. He's better than me so I can get it.
 

HeroMystic

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Link is underrated and hyped in a negative fashion, but that doesn't stop him from being bad character.

Link's main problem is his weaknesses all chain together to make one big weakness. He has spacing, KO power, and damage dealing capabilities, but he's easily juggled, has no proper GTFO moves outside of jab, and is easily gimped. The majority of characters can easily blitz him by throwing out random moves after another because Link can't do anything about it.

The only great thing about Link is his spacing ability. Everything else is either average or poor.
 

Calebyte

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I'd like to start adding 1-2 videos of each matchup one the summaries are complete. I know that Matt and Boss have a few legit Chaingrab vids. There's also a good number of Marth vids on the video thread. Which of these should be included? Also, anyone have any good Link vids?

EDIT: Also, I'll start with Sonic, since he's the only character I have excessive experience with.
 

Big-Omar

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I have one vid on my channel where i get ***** by a wifi link on brinstar. You can use that if you want even thought I didnt win lol....

If you really want me too, I can dig out some replays of actual good matches vs link and i'll put it up on youtube as a reference.
 

Calebyte

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Hey Hero, did you want that Diddy summary in the rediscussion thread to be posted here?

Hey everyone else, I added the Sonic summary to the OP based on what was in the MU discussion. Does it look okay?
 
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