Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[Phantom7]

What else could have happened? Honestly, it's quite obvious that something close to that did occur.

Although, it is debatable that the Arbiter's Grounds is Gerudo's Fortress, but after examining some detail, Thieves' Hideout plus the training ground is big enough to be a dungeon in itself. After all, Arbiter's Grounds is a prison anyway. And with the fortress erected from large blocks of sand, it is highly likely that the fortress faded into ruins within a few hundred years. And with evidence provided that the Gerudo were probably banished to the Twilight Realm (the Gerudo emblem on Zant's cloak for example or that they have mysteriously disappeared, or that they were simply thieves to begin with and their banishment should be anticipated), it seems likely that the Mirror Chamber would have been built in their territory and not off somewhere in the middle of the desert. Also, taking another look at the TP map, Arbiter's Grounds is in about the same place, relative to Hyrule Castle, as Gerudo's Fortress in OoT.

 

[c3gill]

And with evidence provided that the Gerudo were probably banished to the Twilight Realm (the Gerudo emblem on Zant's cloak for example or that they have mysteriously disappeared, or that they were simply thieves to begin with and their banishment should be anticipated), it seems likely that the Mirror Chamber would have been built in their territory and not off somewhere in the middle of the desert. Also, taking another look at the TP map, Arbiter's Grounds is in about the same place, relative to Hyrule Castle, as Gerudo's Fortress in OoT.

So the Fused Shadow and Majora's Mask were created by the same people, because they both share the weird eyeball, right? Emblems dont prove anything. And wtf does the Gerudo being theives have anything to do with the Twili banishment?

More importantly, dont compare maps to back up your ideas- why the hell is Zora's domain to the Northeast of Hyrule castle in OoT and to the Southwest in TP? Comparing locations of places on maps is not a vaild point to back up an idea.

 

[Spire]

So the Fused Shadow and Majora's Mask were created by the same people, because they both share the weird eyeball, right? Emblems dont prove anything. And wtf does the Gerudo being theives have anything to do with the Twili banishment?

More importantly, dont compare maps to back up your ideas- why the hell is Zora's domain to the Northeast of Hyrule castle in OoT and to the Southwest in TP? Comparing locations of places on maps is not a vaild point to back up an idea.

Whoa, major brainfart or what? Zora's Domain is neither in the Northeast OR Southwest in either OoT or TP. It's in the Northwest in OoT and the North in TP.

 

[c3gill]

Whoa, major brainfart or what? Zora's Domain is neither in the Northeast OR Southwest in either OoT or TP. It's in the Northwest in OoT and the North in TP.

lol yea good call, but I just mixed it up- I meant to say Southeast of hyrule castle in OoT and north of hyrule castle in TP.

the compass directions are only in reference to hyrule castle- but yea the point stays the same

 

[Phantom7]

So the Fused Shadow and Majora's Mask were created by the same people, because they both share the weird eyeball, right? Emblems dont prove anything. And wtf does the Gerudo being theives have anything to do with the Twili banishment?

More importantly, dont compare maps to back up your ideas- why the hell is Zora's domain to the Northeast of Hyrule castle in OoT and to the Southwest in TP? Comparing locations of places on maps is not a vaild point to back up an idea.

The Majora's Mask is the Termina parallel to the Fused Shadow. We've established that a couple of pages back.

The Zora's River covers a massive area of northeast and north Hyrule. Over hundreds of years, the Zoras could have moved their territory to different parts of the river due to the natural conditions of the river. Also, Nintendo is not going to reuse maps for different games, or the games would be much more boring.

 

[Mewter]

I have a question that I've been curious about: Who is that skeleton warrior (Stalfos, I think?) that teaches moves to Link in TP? Is it the OoT Link or what?

 

[SinkingHigher]

I believe at one point he says something which infers that he is indeed OoT Link (who, iirc, is believed to be the original hero of time and possibly, technically speaking, the only "hero of time").

 

[Clownbot]

I have a question that I've been curious about: Who is that skeleton warrior (Stalfos, I think?) that teaches moves to Link in TP? Is it the OoT Link or what?

Well (as said in the YouTube Zelda Timeline video that was posted in here earlier), what with the Hero's Shade's equipment having similarities to the Gilded Sword and Mirror Shield from Majora's Mask, it could definitely be the one from OoT/MM.

 

[Phantom7]

^I agree. It most definitely is the Hero of Time's spirit. Notice how the wolf is golden, signifying that he is another form of Link, since only the hero chosen by the gods will become a wolf in twilight. The spirit that teaches Link these skills definitely has this power. The golden form represents his significance of pulling the Master Sword from its pedestal and becoming the Hero of Time. And besides, who is better to teach Link these skills than the ancient hero himself?

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
I used to think that all Links were desendants of eachother. I now think that they are Re-Incarnations of eachother. Anyone else think anything like that?

And yeah, this game looks like it's going to be freaking awesome. Let us hope it is half as good as Ocarina of Time is.
:flame:

 

[Chill]

What do you mean it looks awesome?

XD

 

[Scott!]

:flame:
I used to think that all Links were desendants of eachother. I now think that they are Re-Incarnations of eachother. Anyone else think anything like that?

And yeah, this game looks like it's going to be freaking awesome. Let us hope it is half as good as Ocarina of Time is.
:flame:

Half as good? Every single console Zelda game I've played, and most if not all handhelds as well, are more than half as good as OoT. It better be a lot better than only half as good as OoT. WW is almost as good as OoT, and TP isn't far behind. MM is so close to OoT that you need to look really closely to tell. LA is up there as well, and so on with the rest. I just want an amazing game. Everyone always judges Zelda games against OoT, ever since it came out. Even Aonuma wants to beat OoT. We need different standards, as does he. I think the only way for him to beat OoT is to not make a game entirely about doing that. When he does, we get TP. An amazing game, to be sure, but it felt so similar to OoT that it just couldn't surpass it for those of us who played OoT first. Look at MM. It wasn't about being OoT but better. It was about doing what hadn't been accomplished in OoT. And it was amazing. I guess the moral here is to not try to better the greats, but to break from them and do something new and different.

Also, someone said before (Spire, maybe?) that Zora's Domain was in the northwest of Hyrule? Definitely northeast in OoT. I think all the directions and different reference points got people mixed up. I know I had to read it all a few times.

Edit: 900 :D And about a third of them here in this one thread. Whoa.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Half as good? Every single console Zelda game I've played, and most if not all handhelds as well, are more than half as good as OoT. It better be a lot better than only half as good as OoT. WW is almost as good as OoT, and TP isn't far behind. MM is so close to OoT that you need to look really closely to tell. LA is up there as well, and so on with the rest. I just want an amazing game. Everyone always judges Zelda games against OoT, ever since it came out. Even Aonuma wants to beat OoT. We need different standards, as does he. I think the only way for him to beat OoT is to not make a game entirely about doing that. When he does, we get TP. An amazing game, to be sure, but it felt so similar to OoT that it just couldn't surpass it for those of us who played OoT first. Look at MM. It wasn't about being OoT but better. It was about doing what hadn't been accomplished in OoT. And it was amazing. I guess the moral here is to not try to better the greats, but to break from them and do something new and different.

Also, someone said before (Spire, maybe?) that Zora's Domain was in the northwest of Hyrule? Definitely northeast in OoT. I think all the directions and different reference points got people mixed up. I know I had to read it all a few times.

:flame:
Um... Perhapse I should have worded what I ment differently. I am not trying to support a side in any Game Competition between the new Zelda Wii and Ocarina of Time...

I'm sure all of you remember how awe-inspiring it felt to play the game though, from the first dungeon, sniping Queen Gohma's eye off of the ceeling and getting such an early kill, to flying accross Hyrule Field with Epona, to get the Big Goron's Sword, right up to the Final Battle, where you and Zelda slaughter Ganon. The Story, the Game Play, The Sounds, the Characters, just the feel of the game. It was awesome.

And I hope this game makes me fee that good, is all. It probably will. It's another Legend of Zelda!

On an attempt-to-be-unrelated-note, is this what you're talking about? The Map?
:flame:

 

[TriforceMaster5282]

New Villain

This is slightly off topic in regards to what has been previously said, but:

A log ot people are talking about a new villain for the new Zelda game. This I 100% agree with, and I really want one too.

but the problem is, they cant just kick ganon out on the curb. Just as Link and Zelda get reincarnated, so does ganondorf because of the triforce. If they were to rid ganondorf, they would have to come up with some clever way of extracting his triforce and giving it to some1 else because isnt that the whole reason he is so powerful and able to do all he can? I love ganon andhe is by far my favorite villain of all time in any franchise ever, but i agree other villains are needed here, all I'm saying is, how are we going to apply it without screwing up the legend/storyline completely?

Just a question tho

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
Ganondorf better be pulling the final strings, like he did in WW, OOT, and in TP. Honestly, Vaati does not cut it as a villain. Fruity Purple Sorcerer who put on a Magic Hat and think's hes bad because of it. -.- The Triforce must be maintained! Ganondorf has to be involed some how! Don't take Ganondorf out of the picture completely! ;.;
:flame:

 

[Spire]

I'd really love a Zelda game that pits Link against the challenges of the world as a whole, rather than any one villain conducting said obstacles.

This was kind of done with Link's Awakening, because the world was simply a dream, rather than reality. But imagine if that idea translated into the real world (of Zelda). Link finds himself in a national conflict between races, and meanwhile, the earth itself is cringing as it's preparing for a massive earthquake, or something equally torrential. Link then finds himself subject to hatred with a bounty on his head and everything, etc, etc. These are petty examples of what I'm really trying to go for. Basically, it's Link vs. the world, but in some ways, Link can be seen as the "threat", as he's the only one with enough power (and courage) to step up and do anything about it. Others fear that change, and so they oppose him.

****, I want an Elder Scrolls-style Zelda game so badly. Bethesda is supposedly making a "major Wii-exclusive" game right now. Maybe Nintendo will get their wits together and pitch Zelda to them later on. It would be the best move of all time (not even pulling the Master Sword beats this).

 

[Psychoace]

What do you mean it looks awesome?

XD

Source: http://kotaku.com/5279554/first-look-at-new-zelda-games-concept-art

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
Thank you, Psychoace.

And Spire, you want Link to not be perfectly portrayed as the ultimate Good, doing what is obviously justice for all races evenly, with no problem other than the King of Evil awaiting him? HOW DARE YOU UTTER SUCH BLASFEMY! HEATHEN!

But seriously, that would be a very interesting version of the Story. Half of the ideas floating around fans should really be sent to Nintendo for them to try to work into games. Stuff like .... Link Revolution (that's the vibe I get from your description) would probably go over very well.
:flame:

 

[Mini Mic]

That's not what he meant. He means how could you possibly form a solid opinion based off a single piece of concept art.

 

[bball2012]

Man I wish Nintendo was not wasting time with DS Zeldas so the Wii one could come out faster. Or if they were gonna do DS Zelda's, at least make them 2D. Cramming WW art into Phantom Hourglass is a disservice to the DS and the artstyle itself.

 

[Clownbot]

Spirit Tracks will probably be a pretty good way of holding us over until Zelda Wii comes out.

 

[Spire]

Man I wish Nintendo was not wasting time with DS Zeldas so the Wii one could come out faster. Or if they were gonna do DS Zelda's, at least make them 2D. Cramming WW art into Phantom Hourglass is a disservice to the DS and the artstyle itself.

Word.

What's funny though, is that the DS is capable of much better graphics, but WW and ST have proved to be quite shabby looking games. If Nintendo was smart, they'd make games with N64-styled graphics and gameplay. Seriously, if they made a sequel to MM on the DS with the same graphics, I would honestly be inclined to buy more than one copy.

However, a new classic 2D Zelda would be great - a graphical improvement of ALttP's style.

Zelda is not a cartoon, it's a video game series, so it needs to FEEL and LOOK like a video game series. Unless Nintendo plans on making a new Zelda cartoon series based off of the toon look, I would personally advise them to drop it. However, as Miyamoto originally planned for Link to be a kid adventurer, I think the toon motif fancies this desire the most, so it'll probably stick around, unless the world can rebel against it.

 

[Phantom7]

Word.

What's funny though, is that the DS is capable of much better graphics, but WW and ST have proved to be quite shabby looking games. If Nintendo was smart, they'd make games with N64-styled graphics and gameplay. Seriously, if they made a sequel to MM on the DS with the same graphics, I would honestly be inclined to buy more than one copy.

However, a new classic 2D Zelda would be great - a graphical improvement of ALttP's style.

Zelda is not a cartoon, it's a video game series, so it needs to FEEL and LOOK like a video game series. Unless Nintendo plans on making a new Zelda cartoon series based off of the toon look, I would personally advise them to drop it. However, as Miyamoto originally planned for Link to be a kid adventurer, I think the toon motif fancies this desire the most, so it'll probably stick around, unless the world can rebel against it.

I do agree that they are a bit shabby-looking. At least, the textures are. The 3D models are okay but not amazing. But if Nintendo needs to build around the OoT style and make something new and different, the N64 graphics just wouldn't do it. However, the repeated use of cel shaded graphics is becoming a bit cliche for Zelda and doesn't always give us the Zelda feel we're looking for. But I am inclined to buy ST, because it looks MUCH better than PH did.

Personally, I think Zelda has had enough 2-D games as it is.

We have seen plenty of Zelda games where Link begins to reach adulthood, but of course, the toon games are just the child-Link games. Although I think OoT dealt with the kid-adventurer theme the best. WW and PH didn't even compare.

 

[SkylerOcon]

http://www.unseen64.net/articles/zelda64-project-development/

This is pretty interesting. It has a lot to do with all the beta versions of OoT/MM and other Zelda stuff that would've happened on the 64. I had always kinda assumed that Master Quest WAS Ura Zelda... but now I know that Ura Zelda was much, much different.

 

[Spire]

http://www.unseen64.net/articles/zelda64-project-development/

This is pretty interesting. It has a lot to do with all the beta versions of OoT/MM and other Zelda stuff that would've happened on the 64. I had always kinda assumed that Master Quest WAS Ura Zelda... but now I know that Ura Zelda was much, much different.

This is great. Despite the slightly inaccurate translation, it was still very interesting. I've seen most of, if not all of these screens before, dating all the way back to when Nintendo Power first announced "Zelda 64" in who knows what year, and man, I love seeing how far OoT came, but really diving into what it could have been entices me so much more.

I did not know however that an OoT 64DD was planned with new content. That would have been SO awesome.

 

[SkylerOcon]

It said somewhere in there that it's not out of the option for Nintendo to release it as a game sometime soon. Ocarina of Time DS, anybody? I'd buy it. It would be great. I'm sure a DS cartridge could handle it.

 

[Spire]

It said somewhere in there that it's not out of the option for Nintendo to release it as a game sometime soon. Ocarina of Time DS, anybody? I'd buy it. It would be great. I'm sure a DS cartridge could handle it.

Holy mackerel, must have over-read that tidbit! Great, great news. Ninty re-released Super Mario 64 with new content and multiple playable characters, so if OoT got a similar facelift, I would fall slave to Nintendo once again and play through that game only a hundred and one dalmations times.

The DS family still has a really, really long lifespan, so I wouldn't rule it out at all. Especially if Zelda Wii turns out to be a sequel to MM, I'm sure a remake of OoT would ensue almost instantaneously.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I wouldn't say almost instantaneously, but it would definitly make it much more likely. Seeing as how Zelda DD has already been made (or at the very least, is close to completion) it wouldn't even require that much work. Just translation and porting it to the DS. It would be great.

 

[Spire]

This leaves no chance for a MM remake, but alas, we don't need that. The public has wanted an OoT remake basically since it came out, and with the already made extra content, they could add it along with anything new. Man, an expanded equipment and Hyrule would be a Godsend. I've wanted to mod OoT for ages now, but there really aren't any truly customizable methods of doing so. But this would be far more than enough. Imagine if they brought the OoT Hyrule up to speed with that of TP and WW, adding landmarks and locations that we know from those games such as the Tower of the Gods and Snowpeak Province. I would absolutely love a remake of the golden game that actually helps to reveal more about the connection between the games.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I would actually prefer a remake of MM, but with all of it's incompleted dungeons, well, completed but I know what you mean.

And seeing as one of Link's tunics that was found in the coding but was never used was an ice tunic. Does this mean that snowpeak may have possibly been planned for OoT? It would've been hella cool if it was. And I've always wanted Rauru to have his own temple - he's been a favorite sage of mine, despite not being particularly important.

An OoT remake would be great.

 

[Spire]

I would actually prefer a remake of MM, but with all of it's incompleted dungeons, well, completed but I know what you mean.

And seeing as one of Link's tunics that was found in the coding but was never used was an ice tunic. Does this mean that snowpeak may have possibly been planned for OoT? It would've been hella cool if it was. And I've always wanted Rauru to have his own temple - he's been a favorite sage of mine, despite not being particularly important.

An OoT remake would be great.

You know, that's a good point. The fact that Hyrule Castle is not located in the center may hint to their time constraints and a possible "hacking off" of the Northern Hyrule we now know as Snowpeak.

I'm sure Rauru probably had a temple of his own at one point, but was too, cut short and dumped into the makeshift "fountain-of-dreams" Temple of Light. I always hated its design. Didn't feel like light at all, but rather, well, a fountain that you can only access if you... put... your sword in.......

Spoiler

dammit Vorguen!

Well that wraps up my Zelda talk for tonight. Off to the Art Emporium. Tra la la!

 

[Kuraudo]

Anyone up for agreeing that the Ice Tunic is the white tunic for Link that we've seen in 64/Melee/Brawl?

 

[Spire]

Anyone up for agreeing that the Ice Tunic is the white tunic for Link that we've seen in 64/Melee/Brawl?

And subsequently Four Swords & Four Swords Adventures. Yes, I agree.

While its power probably prevents Link from being frozen (kind of eliminates most danger from a potential Ice Temple, which I don't like), I'm interested to know what the Light Tunic's power did.

However, how are we to know that the light-purple tunic and the yellow tunics weren't correspondent with both the Shadow and Spirit Temples? That, too, would make sense, at least colorwise.

 

[Phantom7]

That makes the most sense. Besides, Spirit and Shadow were the last two temples left in the game, so it would make sense to have included a tunic for each of the temples. Could they have replaced them for the Lens of Truth and the Silver Gauntlets?

An OoT remake would be amazing. Hopefully it would be a Wii title, though, to ensure maximum graphic quality and with an option of using the Wii-remote and nunchuk to directly control sword, shield, and weapon movement. Wii Motion Plus would make swinging a sword quite interesting, not to mention defending yourself with the nunchuk, or using both wii-remote and nunchuk to fire arrows. However, hopefully they would include an option to use the classic controller or gamecube controller for a more classic feel.

 

[Spire]

That makes the most sense. Besides, Spirit and Shadow were the last two temples left in the game, so it would make sense to have included a tunic for each of the temples. Could they have replaced them for the Lens of Truth and the Silver Gauntlets?

An OoT remake would be amazing. Hopefully it would be a Wii title, though, to ensure maximum graphic quality and with an option of using the Wii-remote and nunchuk to directly control sword, shield, and weapon movement. Wii Motion Plus would make swinging a sword quite interesting, not to mention defending yourself with the nunchuk, or using both wii-remote and nunchuk to fire arrows. However, hopefully they would include an option to use the classic controller or gamecube controller for a more classic feel.

Similar to Retro Studios updating and merging all three Metroid Prime games into a single disc, Nintendo should some day remake bundles of Zelda games with up-to-par graphics, reflecting the design and style that the respective games were originally shaped after (meaning that the character design, etc, would need to be revamped to meet modern standards). They would be as follows:

- Legend of Zelda + Adventure of Link
- A Link to the Past + Link's Awakening
- Ocarina of Time + Majora's Mask
- Oracle of Ages + Oracle of Seasons
- The Minish Cap + Four Swords/Adventures (FS and FSA can be consolidated into one game)

 

[LLDL]

OoT Water Temple - I just found this out today. Just a stupid trick to get to the level change thing without having to go through al the doors. Has this been done before? I spent all of 5 mintues today trying various ways to get to that platform and I found a way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmTe3C0i1DY

 

[ROOOOY!]

I really have a thing against remakes. In this case, an OoT remake would just be Nintendo cashing in for being terminally unimaginative. That and I doubt they'd put that much care and effort into that kinda remake anyway, as being one of the most popular games of all time people are going to buy it even if it gives you Gonorrehea from being so bad gameplay-wise.

In general, I've had an on-off relationship with the series. From liking the originals, loving OoT, I just couldn't play Majoras Mask. Partly because I had no idea what to do and got stuck at the start (3 day countdown thing) and was too proud to use a guide. Seeing gameplay from later on though, it didn't look as great as OoT. Windwaker and Phantom Hourglass I really enjoyed too, but found them to have little replay value as starting them again the other day, I found no desire to carry on playing despite them being good games.

Twilight Princess (along with Brawl) was the reason I bought a wii in the first place. Regretted it. TP was one of the most boring, unimmersive things I've ever played. When it got to like the 4th or 5th time the game made me collect those ****ing pink tear things as that dreadful Wolf character I put the game away and never let it see the light of day again. I don't care how good the game is after collecting those tears. I don't care if it dispenses beer and gives you massages. No dice.

I'll probably buy Spirit Tracks, as unexciting as the idea seems. I can see it being a PH clone anyway.
"Go back to the starting temple and collect maps"
"Go back to the ticket office and pick up a timetable"

 

[Spire]

ROOOOY!, I like you. Stick around for a while

 

[1UPChris]

In general, I've had an on-off relationship with the series. From liking the originals, loving OoT, I just couldn't play Majoras Mask. Partly because I had no idea what to do and got stuck at the start (3 day countdown thing) and was too proud to use a guide. Seeing gameplay from later on though, it didn't look as great as OoT.

So, so, so correct. The beginning of Majora's Mask was awful tbh. I had no idea what to do until my friend bought the game and the guide that came with it.

 

[LLDL]

Majoras mask was genius. The thing is, its too hard for people, which is why they don't like it. You love OoT because it was Epic, and it was fairly easy, and after the first run through, you can say you're am expert. Lol Honestly, play through Majoras Mask, beat it (without a walkthrough) and you guys will realise that it is just as great if not BETTER than OoT. Difficulty wise, its better than Oot. And difficulty and jaw-dropping puzzles are what make a zelda game