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Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

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SinkingHigher

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I really hope it's Navi or something in her true form and that all this time Navi was actually the queen of fairies and that's why she had to leave. I mean, in TP your guide was the princess of the twilight realm.... Seems unlikely that the kid destined to save hyrule and banish the king of evil would just get soem regular old fairy like all the other useless kokiri children.

*sigh*

a fan boy can dream.
 

Skrlx

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It's funny that you say that...

Ctrl + F to start a serach (assuming you're using Firefox). Then, type in 'timeline'.

Saying that there is no timeline is a bad idea. It makes people not like you here.

EDIT: For good measure, here's the Aonuma interview confirming the split timeline: http://www.thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1173298152&archive=&start_from=&ucat=19
I've actually been reading this thread for a long time and i read all of the split timeline theory and what not.

I never said i didn't believe there is a timeline. If i somehow implied that i don't believe there is a timeline then i'm sorry.

I'm a pretty big zelda fan haha
 

Scott!

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Navi suddenly interests me. When the timeline splits, there's suddenly two parallel Hyrules, with copies of everyone. Essentially, there's two of everyone around before the time of the split, except for Link, and Navi. It's interesting to me that she and Link are unique in that, or rather, I think it's interesting that Link isn't the only one like that. Of course, more Links come along in both timelines, sometimes in parallel (TP and WW?). But they're different. Link and Navi are the only individuals born before the split to only ever exist in one at a time.

Argh, thinking about the moment of the split in OoT always messes with my mind. I know that Link and Navi must return to the time when they first spoke to Zelda, which means they returned to before they left. But if it was before they got all the spiritual stones and opened the Door of Time, how did Link walk through it after Navi left? It's the only thing I just can't resolve.
 

Ochobobo

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If the Sword Girl is Navi, then it would mean the game's in Child Link Timeline, since Navi went back in time with Link at the end of OoT.

When you see her, hopefully she'll say something interesting about how she's seen the parallel Hyrule and go into great detail about the timeline, but I doubt it lol. She'll probably just make abstract references in true Zelda fashion.
 

Alzi

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You should have a map showing you which islands have shards.

When the Zelda Wii game comes out, I hope they have some very detailed scene of the Master Sword transforming into this girl, that shows us whether the Sword's supposed to be right side up or upside down. lol

But I don't think they will, and will just leave the similarities relatively subtle.
It will probally transform the way Link does into a wolf in that way. But this next zelda game is seriously going to be great it will definatly have a good story line if the girl is the sword and the gameplay will be great aswell better then Link transforming into a wolf.
 

SinkingHigher

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Ocho, I don't think that's true. Navi would have stayed in the adult timeline without adult link. I don't think Zelda turned back time for everyone, she only sent Link back in time.

If you recall the ending of OoT, Child Link runs up to Child Zelda by the window. They look at eachother for a little while, and Link doesn't have a fairy.

Oh wait. Now that I checked the timeline, it would mean that Navi moved on to the WW part of the timeline.

P.s., anyone have any speculative ideas as to why Link is standing infront of a busted down doorway full of orange light?
 

Scott!

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Ocho, I don't think that's true. Navi would have stayed in the adult timeline without adult link. I don't think Zelda turned back time for everyone, she only sent Link back in time.

If you recall the ending of OoT, Child Link runs up to Child Zelda by the window. They look at eachother for a little while, and Link doesn't have a fairy.

Oh wait. Now that I checked the timeline, it would mean that Navi moved on to the WW part of the timeline.

P.s., anyone have any speculative ideas as to why Link is standing infront of a busted down doorway full of orange light?
No, Navi definitely went back with Link, just like she followed him through time each time he switched. We saw her leave him in the Master Sword room once they return. Remember, when she flies away from him and out the one window up high in the back.
 

bball2012

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No Navi please. It would be better if Nintendo focused on original themes instead of trying to steal even more things from Ocarina of Time.

(replaying that right now btw. Still amazing.)

EDIT: And Nintendo could not care less about a Zelda timeline. They've proved that very well for two games running. Just because Ocarina and Majora have continuity doesn't mean they're all supposed to.
 

Clownbot

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EDIT: And Nintendo could not care less about a Zelda timeline. They've proved that very well for two games running.
True.

Just because Ocarina and Majora have continuity doesn't mean they're all supposed to.
False.

Even if Miyamoto doesn't give a **** about the timeline, there most certainly is one.
 

Darkslash

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EDIT: And Nintendo could not care less about a Zelda timeline. They've proved that very well for two games running. Just because Ocarina and Majora have continuity doesn't mean they're all supposed to.
T


False.

Even if Miyamoto doesn't give a **** about the timeline, there most certainly is one.
Where's mah Master Document...

We already managed to create a time line here. And since Ocarina is the beginning, they can't ignore it.
 

Clownbot

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Were you speaking chronologically? I thought Minish Cap was the first game in the timeline.
 

Scott!

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EDIT: And Nintendo could not care less about a Zelda timeline. They've proved that very well for two games running.
Just curious, but what do you mean? The most recent game was PH, which clearly fits into the timeline without any issues, as far as I remember. And before that, TP clearly takes place after OoT. If anything, they do care, at least somewhat. So I'm not sure what you mean by them not caring.

Were you speaking chronologically? I thought Minish Cap was the first game in the timeline.
Minish Cap, if it is truly the beginning, is more like a prologue. OoT really gets the main story, the one that's the main focus of most of the timeline, started. But yes, according to our theory, MC is the actual first.
 

bball2012

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Just curious, but what do you mean? The most recent game was PH, which clearly fits into the timeline without any issues, as far as I remember. And before that, TP clearly takes place after OoT. If anything, they do care, at least somewhat. So I'm not sure what you mean by them not caring.
I mean, they "care" in the sense that they will arbitrarily lift things from older games to play up the nostalgic effect. Wind Waker did this skilfully with the descent into frozen Hyrule, my personal favorite moment in any Zelda. Twilight Princess did it pretty egregiously throughout, in a pretty muddled and unsatisfying way.

But no, they don't "care" in the sense that are weaving some great narrative that develops across multiple games. They will link up two games that are on the same system because, well, that's just good marketing. But no, overall, they don't care, they never have cared, they never will care.

And it's probably for the BEST so they can quit mooching off OoT.
 

Spire

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I mean, they "care" in the sense that they will arbitrarily lift things from older games to play up the nostalgic effect. Wind Waker did this skilfully with the descent into frozen Hyrule, my personal favorite moment in any Zelda. Twilight Princess did it pretty egregiously throughout, in a pretty muddled and unsatisfying way.

But no, they don't "care" in the sense that are weaving some great narrative that develops across multiple games. They will link up two games that are on the same system because, well, that's just good marketing. But no, overall, they don't care, they never have cared, they never will care.

And it's probably for the BEST so they can quit mooching off OoT.
Except for the fact that Aonuma's personal goal with the series is to make a game that beats OoT in every way. Because of this mindset, everything they have made thus far (sans MM) has yet to beat it. With OoT, they weren't trying to trump LoZ, AoL, ALttP, or LA, they were simply trying to reinvision "The Legend of Zelda" (not the first game) in an innovative, welcoming 3D format, with of course, an incredible amount of strucutral and plot inspiration from ALttP. Remember, OoT was actually created as a true prequel to ALttP, due to the introduction of the "Unification (Imprisoning) War" and the "Seven Sages" with the SNES title.

So yes, MM was not the first game created to be directly related to another. OoT was created as a prequel to ALttP, no matter how many events actually happen between the two. It would still be a prequel. Hell, the construction of the Great Pyramids of Giza can be seen as a prequel to modern day life, despite 6000 years of human growth between the two eras.

So, if they want to beat OoT, they need to make a game that's based not off of the N64 classic, but rather the idea of a Zelda that can be seen in an entirely new format. OoT was the 3D advent of the series, and now, games are moving into a makeshift "4th" dimension, where gameplay is literally changed to mimic that of our own movements. To top OoT, Nintendo is going to need to build a game up from those foundations - a game that completely immerses the player in a new format of gameplay unlike ever seen or experienced before.
 

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Except for the fact that Aonuma's personal goal with the series is to make a game that beats OoT in every way. Because of this mindset, everything they have made thus far (sans MM) has yet to beat it. With OoT, they weren't trying to trump LoZ, AoL, ALttP, or LA, they were simply trying to reinvision "The Legend of Zelda" (not the first game) in an innovative, welcoming 3D format, with of course, an incredible amount of strucutral and plot inspiration from ALttP. Remember, OoT was actually created as a true prequel to ALttP, due to the introduction of the "Unification (Imprisoning) War" and the "Seven Sages" with the SNES title.

So yes, MM was not the first game created to be directly related to another. OoT was created as a prequel to ALttP, no matter how many events actually happen between the two. It would still be a prequel. Hell, the construction of the Great Pyramids of Giza can be seen as a prequel to modern day life, despite 6000 years of human growth between the two eras.

So, if they want to beat OoT, they need to make a game that's based not off of the N64 classic, but rather the idea of a Zelda that can be seen in an entirely new format. OoT was the 3D advent of the series, and now, games are moving into a makeshift "4th" dimension, where gameplay is literally changed to mimic that of our own movements. To top OoT, Nintendo is going to need to build a game up from those foundations - a game that completely immerses the player in a new format of gameplay unlike ever seen or experienced before.
But what about the timeline? Yes, we understand all of this, but you're forgetting the timeline discussion. Nintendo probably DOES (at least somewhat) care about a timeline. Miyamoto has announced relationships between the games before that connect the timeline, for example, when he announced that WW and TP were parallel, or when OoT was announced as a prequel to ALttP, or when ALttP was announced as a sequel to AoL. Miyamoto is hiding a timeline somewhere, and there is hidden evidence within the games. If the sequel-prequel games were only there as a business tactic, then the evidence showing connections between the games would not be so hidden. For example, it took us pages of debating to decide that TP is a sequel to MM. Of course, Spire III's timeline was drawn from all of this evidence - that which was hidden in the games, and that of which was announced by Miyamoto himself. If you can use evidence provided in such a way to create your own timeline, then there must be a master timeline. With the split timeline ending in OoT, we can only assume that a series of games follows both timelines. You see, if the connections between games were merely business strategies, why were they so creative to split the timeline and make it obvious which two games followed - WW and MM? And then make PH an obvious sequel to WW? There's a piece of the timeline already confirmed - no matter how you look at it. There must be a logical way to connect the rest.
 

Wannabe Zombie

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g65jL3HDg
Another Zelda timeline theory by ocarinahero10, which is the one I believe most. I bet you guys found this, picked it apart like vultures eating roadkill, and proved it wrong. But I'm sharing it just in case lol. This guy makes a lot of honest points and a really good connection with TP to OoT with Link's Stalfos mentor... guy. But with this new zelda and Spirit Tracks, it can be easily proven false now.

Edit: Intersting comment on his video too...

Terralventhe (1 week ago) Show Hide
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's Adult Link who obtains the Zora Tunic from the Zoras (or more specifically, by unthawing King Zor with the blue arrows). Said armor is then passed down through the royal family and generally associated with 'the hero of legend' myth, and is then granted to TP-Link as the 'Zora Armor'.

What makes this a paradox is the fact that if the Child Timeline prevents Ganondorf from causing the events leading to there being an Adult Link who receives the tunic/armor and becomes the 'hero of legend' associated with it. To reiterate my confusion: If the Child Timeline prevents Link from gaining the Zora Tunic, then there is no ancient legend of a hero for the Zoras to speak of, thus casting doubt on the presence of the Zora Armor in Twilight Princess.
 

Scott!

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That video is interesting. I disagree with a few points in it though. Firstly, I don't think LA should follow PH just because he's on a boat. LA was created and presented as a direct sequel to ALttP, and I need real evidence that it fits somewhere else, not just him being on a boat.

Also, it depends on whether the Four Sword stuff added to ALttP is canon, but if it is, that would ruin this timeline pretty badly, considering the Four sword is only in one timeline, and not the one with ALttP in it.

Otherwise, that's a darn good timeline. I like the bit about the shade and Malon especially. I read an article on some Zelda site once that pretty much deduced that Link was meant to be with Malon in OoT, due to a fair amount of evidence, like the gossip stones saying she dreamed of a knight on horseback whisking her away. It doesn't seem to be much of a stretch, and the stuff in TP about Link as a rancher with Epona do seem consistent, though if we take the supposed 100-year time difference as it is, that makes it a bit iffy, unless Link and Malon were VERY old when they had Link. But maybe, if not their son, at least of their direct lineage (grandson or later).
 

Spire

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That video is interesting. I disagree with a few points in it though. Firstly, I don't think LA should follow PH just because he's on a boat. LA was created and presented as a direct sequel to ALttP, and I need real evidence that it fits somewhere else, not just him being on a boat.

Also, it depends on whether the Four Sword stuff added to ALttP is canon, but if it is, that would ruin this timeline pretty badly, considering the Four sword is only in one timeline, and not the one with ALttP in it.

Otherwise, that's a darn good timeline. I like the bit about the shade and Malon especially. I read an article on some Zelda site once that pretty much deduced that Link was meant to be with Malon in OoT, due to a fair amount of evidence, like the gossip stones saying she dreamed of a knight on horseback whisking her away. It doesn't seem to be much of a stretch, and the stuff in TP about Link as a rancher with Epona do seem consistent, though if we take the supposed 100-year time difference as it is, that makes it a bit iffy, unless Link and Malon were VERY old when they had Link. But maybe, if not their son, at least of their direct lineage (grandson or later).
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! FRAKKING INTERNET! I had typed out a lengthy post and of course my wifi crashed and upon submitting my reply, it screwed everything up. Bull****. The internet is a love/hate relationship.

Anyways, I'll start retyping it all...
_______
RETYPE:

SO. I've never seen myself to be one of the people who talk about Link's potential relationships/marriages, as I've deemed the subject entirely unnecessary, however, this is a different case. Of course, this is speaking of Link and Malon in the Child Timeline, because there's zero hope for them in the Adult Timeline. This all circulates around Ordon Village and its potential origins. The Hyrule in TP lacks two key locations as seen in OoT: Kokiri Forest and Lon Lon Ranch. But what is Ordon Village? A settlement that reflects the traditions of Lon Lon Ranch flawlessly, located in what is easily the remnants of Kokiri Forest (due to the houses built into trees) and the general shape of the area). So presumably, a while after having returned to Hyrule from Termina, Link and Malon may have deserted Lon Lon Ranch to form a new settlement deep in the comfort of his home forest, away from any danger - Ordon Village. This is why TP Link originates here, because it is the coming-together of the Kokiri Forest and Lon Lon Ranch.

Okay, now to debunk that Zora Armor scandal. Simply put: Link was able to purchase an infinite amount of Zora Tunics from the shop in Zora's Domain in OoT. There wasn't just one. Furthermore, we do not know the endeavors that the Hero of Time was tasked with upon returning from Termina. Odds are, upon coming of age, he too acquired a Zora Tunic/Armor of some sort. There's absolutely no reason why a game (especially one of TP's caliber) should be moved in the timeline because of a minor item such as a secondary tunic. That's preposterous. Anyways, I will now watch that youtube video and get back to you guys with my thoughts.
 

Spire

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Bear with me on this...

So far, the only interesting point is him placing ALttP before WW, because this would make sense, seeing as how Link disappears to Labrynna and Holodrum, then is caught at sea trying to sail back (LA). Because the Triforce was split at the end of OoT (Adult Timeline), and consequently at the beginning of ALttP, this makes perfect sense. It is again reunited at the end of WW, so ALttP could only follow WW if it took place long, long after.

It's one of the only logical, differing statements that this guy has made so far that I'm willing to adopt. Plus, OoT was created as a prequel to ALttP, so that too, makes sense. HOWEVER, according to Miyamoto's timeline circa 1998, the games went: OoT-LoZ/AoL-ALttP (LA didn't fit anywhere according to him). This also makes sense so long as we write is as such: OoT-WW/PH-FS/FSA-LoZ/AoL-ALttP/OoA/OoS/LA.

Anyways, upon reading up on some information, I've concluded that FS/FSA have to come before ALttP. They were obviously created as prequels to the SNES game, and given that FS was bundled with ALttP, and furthermore, how the Four Sword Temple was added to the game, this justifies their bond even more. Plus, with the introduction of the origins of the Trident, the Dark World, and the Seven Maidens, this only furthers the fact that FS/FSA have to come before ALttP.

I'm trying to piece together a timeline based solely on the Triforce. Let's recap what happens to it in each game:

TMC: Starts together, ends together (plays no role in game)
OoT: Starts together, ends split
WW: Starts split, ends together
PH: Starts together, ends together (plays no role in game)
LoZ: Starts split; Wisdom and Power are brought together
AoL: Courage is found; Triforce is probably reunited
ALttP: Starts split, ends together
OoS/OoA/LA: Starts together, ends together

MM: Starts split, ends split (plays no role in game; this is also to be debated)
TP: Starts split, probably ends together

So...

Wow. This is **** near impossible. WW and ALttP both start with the Triforce being split, and end with it together. Yet, the only game that ends with the Triforce being split is OoT (besides possibly MM), and that's in the Adult Timeline. However, TP starts with it being split too, and while Ganondorf never actually reached the Triforce in the Sacred Realm in this timeline (child), the Triforce was naturally split between he, Link, and Zelda. However, TP never designates whether or not it ends up together (we can see after Ganondorf's death that it leaves his hand).
__________________

Seven Sages & Maidens Timeline Locking

The Seven Maidens are the descendants of the Seven Sages awakened in the Adult Timeline of OoT. Any game featuring these characters absolutely must take place in the Adult Timeline. This includes: LoZ/AoL, ALttP(OoS/OoA/LA), FS/FSA, and WW/PH. This is absolute and completely factual. So, to tie this in to the Triforce, the most logical approach would be:

ADULT TIMELINE:

OoT-WW/PH-(ST)-LoZ/AoL-FS/FSA-ALttP/OoS/OoA/LA

In Triforce words, it would read as follows:

Triforce is split (OoT) - reassembled (WW/PH) - split (assumably with ST) - reassembled (LoZ/AoL) - should be split (FS/FSA) - reassembled (ALttP) - stays assembled (OoS/OoA/LA)

That's how it should play out. We know now that Spirit Tracks takes place 100 years after PH and as such, is potentially the closest sequel to it. Knowing that LoZ/AoL must take place long after WW so that the towns could be named after the Seven Sages, this would make sense to place ST prior to the NES games, seeing as how railroads could be built so that these many towns could be established far and wide. Plus, this would explain why Blue Pig Ganon, first introduced in LoZ, would later complete himself with his Trident in FS/FSA, to later thwart Hyrule in his prime in ALttP.

What I hate about this is the fact that the Hyrule of LoZ/AoL is developed so much more than ever seen before, given the amount of towns. It would seem as if it should take place long after ALttP, but alas, it most likely does not. The Hyrule of FS/FSA and ALttP greatly resembles the classic Hyrule of OoT so much more, so it would seem logical to place these games as close to OoT as possible. But alas, the Triforce is simply the most powerful designator in the series. It is something I think all of us have not considered enough when establishing our timeline.
____________________________________________

EDIT: With all that being said, I began thinking about the Seven Maidens again. In order for them to truly be direct descendants of the Seven Sages, the timeline would need to play out like this:

OoT - FS/FSA - ALttP/OoS/OoA/LA - WW/PH - ST - LoZ/AoL

But in Triforce words, this would mean:

Triforce is split (OoT) - remains split (FS/FSA) - reassembled (ALttP...) - should split some how (Zelda Wii?) - reassembled (WW/PH) - should split (ST) - reassembled (LoZ/AoL)

That's far more farfetched than I see fitting though. Thoughts on all of this?
____________________________________________

EDIT II: I thought that video was interesting, but ultimately incredibly wrong. He changed SO MUCH of the timeline because he assumed that the Picori Blade was the Master Sword. That is not true at all. The Master Sword is not the Picori Blade and never has been. Yes, they resemble one another, but so too do the Master Sword and the Phantom Sword, and we know for a fact that they are different. Plus, there are far too many reasons to place ALttP as a sequel to FS/FSA, and given the fact that the Picori Blade becomes the White Sword, and upon being infused with the four elements, the Four Sword, a freaking temple (probably just a cameo) is built for it in Hyrule, as seen in the GBA remake of ALttP, AND, THE MASTER SWORD is STILL intact. Case closed. That video is fraudulent.
____________________________________________

EDIT III: My third, and hopefully final edit to this post. Here is the updated timeline to fit the most logical placement choices as read in this post:


____________________________________________

EDIT IV: Well since no one else has posted, I'm going to have to edit this again. I just found this image on Wikipedia while reading the Robin Hood page. This is the closest real-world image to Hyrule I've ever seen:

 

SinkingHigher

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Hi all.

So I just finished MM and I have a couple of questions. A little random, but questions nonetheless.

So the children on the moon are little Happy Mask Salesmen, meaning that our HMS originated from the moon. Either that, or he's a part of Majora's Mask. How did he get to Earth? I got the feeling that this cycle had happened before. The whole moon crashing into earth and such. Maybe that's why Majoras Mask was sealed away? That was the incident?

Also, the little dead deku tree at the beginning that was unexplained, the "dampe" deku guy is sitting beside it in the ending. Does anyone remember what it said when you check it out in the beginning? I'm just wondering what the relation is there.

Oh, and what's this Goddess of Sand and Goddess of Kindness and Goddess of Time business? I thought there was only Din Farore and Nayru.
 

Ochobobo

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That really does look like OoT Hyrule, lol. I can see Lon Lon Ranch from here!

Also, that video assumes that Link married Malon because every other girl he knew (Zelda, Saria, and Ruto, with Zelda being the obvious choice, since TP Link isn't half Kokiri or Zora...) all became sages. But it forgets that none of them became a sage in the Child Timeline, since none of them needed to be awakened to protect the Sacred Realm from Ganondorf.

That article I linked a few posts up said:
"I shall meet you again..."​

When Majora's Mask opens, Link is in the middle of a long journey in search of his beloved and invaluable friend. But when the Moon vanishes from the skies of Termina, Tatl mentions that both she and Link have found what they were seeking(7). At that point, the Happy Mask Salesman offers Link these words:

"Shouldn't you be returning home as well?
Whenever there is a meeting, a parting is sure to follow. However, that parting need not last forever...
Whether a parting be forever or merely for a short time...That is up to you."

--The Happy Mask Salesman

The game ends as Link is riding through the forest once more. Perhaps he is continuing his search for his departed friend, but there is a chance that he is heading somewhere else.

When Princess Zelda bid farewell to Link, she said that she believed in her heart that the day would come when they would meet again. And both Tatl and the Salesman believe that Link has found that which he was truly seeking. His journey has come to a close, and it is time for him to return home.
From this, we can reasonably believe Link spent some time with Zelda when he returned.

But it's still very likely he remained friends with Malon and got help from her and Talon to turn Kokiri Forest into a Ranch once all the Kokiri started turning into monkeys. lol

Edit: Sinking, read this article. It gives some pretty good answers to your questions: http://www.zeldainformer.com/2008/05/the-message-of-majoras-mask.php#more
 

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I am beginning to doubt that FS should actually be included in the timeline. According to Zelda Elements, it is a spinoff made by Capcom.

Then again, TMC was also made by Capcom, but ZE didn't consider it a spinoff.
 

Scott!

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Hi all.

So I just finished MM and I have a couple of questions. A little random, but questions nonetheless.

So the children on the moon are little Happy Mask Salesmen, meaning that our HMS originated from the moon. Either that, or he's a part of Majora's Mask. How did he get to Earth? I got the feeling that this cycle had happened before. The whole moon crashing into earth and such. Maybe that's why Majoras Mask was sealed away? That was the incident?

Also, the little dead deku tree at the beginning that was unexplained, the "dampe" deku guy is sitting beside it in the ending. Does anyone remember what it said when you check it out in the beginning? I'm just wondering what the relation is there.

Oh, and what's this Goddess of Sand and Goddess of Kindness and Goddess of Time business? I thought there was only Din Farore and Nayru.
The Deku butler, when you complete his maze and get the Scent Mask, talks about his son who would do the maze with him, but has gone away. You remind him of his son as well. Tatl comments on the tree earlier, saying that it looks sad and that it's almost watching you, or something like that. What I've heard is that the Butler's son was off wandering in the woods for whatever reason, and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. When Skull Kid had his run-in with Link and turned him into a Deku Scrub, he took the Deku mask from the Butler's son, turning him into the tree form. Your Deku mask, like the Goron and Zora ones, was created at the cost of a life. You just didn't see it happen like that in the game.

The Goddess of Time is rumored to be another name for Nayru. I don't remember the contexts of the other ones you name, but they could be alternate names for one of the three, or names for demi-goddesses or something with power comparable to the giants or something.

As for the mini salesmen, I don't know. Someone else can take that one.
 

SinkingHigher

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Ahhhhh. Okay. I guess it makes sense. iirc Nayru = wisdom = time so it makes sense Zelda has the power she does and presumably why she can already use Nayrus Love and stop/rewind time.

I guess the sand goddess is the counter for power/Din, explaining why Ganondorf is form the desert.

That means that Link = kindness though which realllyyy sucks. I guess that's why he fills out all those random side quests.

I really hope someone can explain why mini-salesmen were on the moon. I shivered when I found out who they were.
 

Phantom7

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I really hope someone can explain why mini-salesmen were on the moon. I shivered when I found out who they were.
Yeah, the salesman and the kids are actually the tribe that held the Majora's Mask. You see, their parallel in Hyrule (prbably the Sheikah) were banished to the Twilight Realm (the darkened Sacred Realm after Ganondorf split the Triforce), so the parallel worlds caused the tribe that held the Majora's Mask to be banished to the moon - which is, evidently, the parallel of the Sacred Realm. Assuming that Impa is the only remaining Sheikah of Hyrule, the salesman must be her parallel. Although, Termina is not a complete mirror of Hyrule, because if it was, the Sacred Realm would be plummeting into the Temple of Time.

Just going to throw this in - the article Ochobobo mentioned explained that the name "Termina" means that Termina is doomed to end, which very well relates to the falling moon.
 

SinkingHigher

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Okay, I like the idea of them being the ancient tribe that disappeared, but I don't know if I entirely agree about them being the Sheikah's parallel. I feel like it's too big a jump.

In OoT the people that were on Lon Lon Ranch remained Ranch related in MM. Instead, it was the children who owned the land instead of the "fathers". Likewise, the beggar from Hyrule Market became the banker in Clock town. It seems people changed status/class from one game to another, but not appearance/location.

I'm just really curious still about the clocktown HMS and the moon spirits. It just seems like such a strange twist.
 

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Okay, I like the idea of them being the ancient tribe that disappeared, but I don't know if I entirely agree about them being the Sheikah's parallel. I feel like it's too big a jump.

In OoT the people that were on Lon Lon Ranch remained Ranch related in MM. Instead, it was the children who owned the land instead of the "fathers". Likewise, the beggar from Hyrule Market became the banker in Clock town. It seems people changed status/class from one game to another, but not appearance/location.

I'm just really curious still about the clocktown HMS and the moon spirits. It just seems like such a strange twist.
It seems as if the Clock Tower is parallel to the Temple of Time, since through both you can enter the Sacred Realm, or in Termina, the moon. Although, considering the fact that the kids are here on the moon (the Sacred Realm's parallel) it is easy to believe they are the Sheikah's parallel, since the Sheikah were banished before. Here's another thought - what about the Majora's Mask? Doesn't it look like it could be parallel to the Mask of Truth? And there is more evidence in TP - there are Sheikah emblems everywhere at Palace of Twilight, and the Fused Shadow and Majora's Mask are almost identical. I'm also beginning to think that Link opening the Sacred Realm in Hyrule is what caused the moon to fall upon Termina.

Spire, I'm beginning to wonder about where you placed FS in your timeline. It almost seems like it would fit where it is, but I'm almost sure it follows ST. If you look back at Hyrule in WW, you notice it looks almost exactly the same as in FS (especially Hyrule Castle itself), and by the time LoZ and AoL hit, Hyrule has gone through some dramatic changes. Since nothing really happens with the Triforce in FS, it seems as though FS could come either before LoZ or before ALttP, but looking at facts beyond just the Triforce, theoretically FS should come before LoZ. You could argue and say that Link and the pirates discover a new island and that becomes Hyrule (which eventually evolves into FS Hyrule), but as I've explained pages back, if they were to discover a new island, why is the Four Sword there, why is the Sacred Realm accessible, and why does it look exactly like Hyrule? No one knows how Hyrule returns from the Great Sea after being washed away by the King, but somehow it happens because there is evidence.

Because you have been hovering around this every time you've created a new timeline, I decided to make my own:
http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs47/f/2009/178/a/8/The_Legend_of_Zelda_Timeline_by_Phantom_7.png
 

Spire

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Remember Phantom7 - the Mask of Truth is obtainable in MM, so it's not the equivalent. If MM is an equivalent to anything, it's most likely the Fused Shadow.

Nice visual timeline though :) I'd highly consider FS/FSA taking place before LoZ/AoL. As long as they all come before ALttP, then it's safe.
 

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Remember Phantom7 - the Mask of Truth is obtainable in MM, so it's not the equivalent. If MM is an equivalent to anything, it's most likely the Fused Shadow.

Nice visual timeline though :) I'd highly consider FS/FSA taking place before LoZ/AoL. As long as they all come before ALttP, then it's safe.
Oh - yeah, you're right about the fused shadow. I must not have been thinking clearly. Thanks though. It really didn't take as long as I thought it would, but yours was nice too. Thinking about the Triforce was definitely a safer method for figuring out the timeline.

That also means that the tribe banished to the Sacred Realm of Hyrule, also being the equivalent of the moon kids, was not the Sheikah, but rather, some other tribe that became known as the Twili, once Ganondorf invaded the Sacred Realm and turned it into a world of darkness. But since there are Sheikah emblems in the Palace of Twilight, the Sheikah could have been there as well along with the Gerudo (Zant's Gerudo emblem) and whatever tribe is parallel to the moon kids.
 

SinkingHigher

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Perhaps they're some kind of parallel to the Gerudo. They all have red hair, they're all men.

I highly doubt this though.

Isn't Termina INSIDE Hyrule though? I always thought it was just in one of the tunnels in the Lost Woods that you never found.
 

Spire

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Isn't Termina INSIDE Hyrule though? I always thought it was just in one of the tunnels in the Lost Woods that you never found.
Uhhhh no. It's a parallel world to Hyrule, reached via a wormhole of a sort.

But back to the origin tribe of the Twili. I think it's something we've spoken of so much and so many times that it just cannot be discerned. Obviously the Sheikah and the Gerudo had some sort of impact on it, especially the Sheikah though. Question though: could Ganon have created Zant?
 

Phantom7

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Uhhhh no. It's a parallel world to Hyrule, reached via a wormhole of a sort.

But back to the origin tribe of the Twili. I think it's something we've spoken of so much and so many times that it just cannot be discerned. Obviously the Sheikah and the Gerudo had some sort of impact on it, especially the Sheikah though. Question though: could Ganon have created Zant?
I doubt it. I think it is safest to say that he is one of the male Gerudo, descended after the Gerudos' banishment. On second thought, it may just be the Gerudo and Sheikah, and not another separate tribe. There's nothing telling us that the Sheikah didn't own the Fused Shadows. They may just be the dark interlopers, who used the Fused Shadows to invade the Sacred Realm. I would think that the Sheikah are more likely to have used the Fused Shadows than the Gerudo, because they are often associated with masks and dark powers. As for the Gerudos, they were theives, so it's not unlikely that they were eventually banished.

Here is my theory:

Sometime before TP occurred in the timeline, the Gerudo either stole some important item in Hyrule or attempted to invade the Sacred Realm. For punishment, the Hylians imprisoned the Gerudos in their own fortress, which at that point became Arbiter's Grounds. While imprisoning them, the Mirror Chamber was built, and the Gerudos were banished right there at the fortress. Thoughts?
 

SinkingHigher

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It's an interesting theory and all, but unless Zant gets his own spin-off or something, it will always remain a highly speculative theory.
 
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