Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[TLMSheikant]

:/ What has the world come to? Now tingle gets his own game...and the next big zelda has a fully grown up link (breaking tradition since YL is the true link in almost all zeldas), the master sword is now a girl and we'll get a zelda DS with a lot of train travel...:/. Whats happening, Nintendo?

 

[Clownbot]

:/ What has the world come to? Now tingle gets his own game...and the next big zelda has a fully grown up link (breaking tradition since YL is the true link in almost all zeldas), the master sword is now a girl and we'll get a zelda DS with a lot of train travel...:/. Whats happening, Nintendo?

Hm?

Tingle already has two games out right now, they just weren't released in America. An adult Link has already been present in TP and most of OoT, so the Wii game isn't exactly "breaking tradition"; that's been done a while ago.

 

[smash brawl player 99021]

good thread

 

[SkylerOcon]

Hm?

Tingle already has two games out right now, they just weren't released in America. An adult Link has already been present in TP and most of OoT, so the Wii game isn't exactly "breaking tradition"; that's been done a while ago.

It also must be mentioned that Spirit Track's train represents a logical upgrade in the Zelda universe. The game is a symbol for the everlasting struggle between good and evil, and thus, Link and Ganon will continue fighting for all of eternity. A game featuring more advanced technology than past games is a good step forward.

 

[Kuraudo]

Vaati being manipulated by Ganondorf, whose the final boss. Now that'd be awesome.

 

[kr3wman]

Link doing some wrestling moves à la Kinnikuman.

That'd be awesome.

Probably too much, in fact.

 

[Spire]

good thread

It's much more than a thread, m'boy!

It also must be mentioned that Spirit Track's train represents a logical upgrade in the Zelda universe. The game is a symbol for the everlasting struggle between good and evil, and thus, Link and Ganon will continue fighting for all of eternity. A game featuring more advanced technology than past games is a good step forward.

It is this accurate reading into the series that has inspired me to create so many spin-off stories and projects to differ from the formula. I like to look at it as though Link and Ganon are essentially one in the same, and like Zelda said about Hyrule and the Twilight Realm: two sides to the same coin; they cannot exist without one another. However, this might be stretched further to the number three, as the three pieces of the Triforce cannot exist without one another, and hence, Link, Ganon and Zelda exist only because the others do. They balance the world. One opposes the land, the other two oppose him. When both exist, they will always triumph.

However, screwing around with such infinities such as "time" would warrant undesirable results, as seen in the prelude to Wind Waker. This further questions what is right, what is supposed to happen, and what is not. Everything that has happened... was it supposed to happen? What if no one wanted it to happen. Was it supposed to? Well the fact is, it happened, so I would say that it was supposed to happen, not many how many forces in the universe oppose it. Even if time is warped and history altered. What happened at one point was supposed to happen, and the alteration too, was supposed to happen.

____________________________________


EDIT: I wanted to end this with something climactic, but I had nothing until now. What is truly beautiful about The Legend of Zelda is that the entire scheme of it all is based not on the number two - which so many things in our real world are - but rather one more than two; three. The simple number 3 has become so much, as it pervades the very fabrics of which Hyrule is woven. The Triforce is simply an archetype - a triangle, built of three triangles. What is significant in the triangle is that it is the most basic shape when connecting straight lines. One is simply a line. Two defines every angle imaginable, but three. Three, now you have a tangible, visual shape. In a certain light, it is the most basic geometric shape. Yet, this whole, beautiful, magical world is crafted around the idea of the triangle, and all that it entails. But the Triforce itself says so much more. Bringing three triangles together to form one triangle is as powerful as the number 11. So much of our world is based around the number and idea of ten; 10. But, you add one more; just one more number to ten, and you surpass it. Ten is composed of ten whole numbers, but that one more beats it. That's all it requires; a simply push over the edge. The Triforce, I feel, is that much more important than a single triangle. On the surface, it is just two more triangles than the basic one triangle, but more so, a new triangle could not be formed without those two more. Not just one more, but two more.

So in a nutshell, Shigeru Miyamoto is a sheer genius for developing this immortal symbol.

 

[Ochobobo]

However, this might be stretched further to the number three, as the three pieces of the Triforce cannot exist without one another, and hence, Link, Ganon and Zelda exist only because the others do. They balance the world. One opposes the land, the other two oppose him. When both exist, they will always triumph.

This really reminds me of 1984, and how Oceania, Eastasia, and Eurasia are all in an eternal war with each other. The war will never end, not even when two of them team up against the other one. All three regions have their own unique natural defenses to take care of such threats.

Just as how Ganon will never truly be defeated, though Link and Zelda both team up against him... even if he's killed. Another Ganon just takes his place and the war continues as if it never ended.

 

[Clownbot]

@Spire: wow, you're... quite the resident Zelda scholar, aren't you?

Also, I found your last sentence funny, as Miyamoto (though he's still a genius) probably doesn't care about the timeline as much as many of the fans, or is aware of how he created something so magnificent out of something so simple.

 

[Ochobobo]

@Spire: wow, you're... quite the resident Zelda scholar, aren't you?

Also, I found your last sentence funny, as Miyamoto (though he's still a genius) probably doesn't care about the timeline as much as many of the fans, or is aware of how he created something so magnificent out of something so simple.

I'm pretty sure Miyamoto's aware of his success, lol.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I wonder if "Tingle" has any relation to "Triangle"

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Isn't he called tinkle in Japan though...

SOunds more like you don't want to be under him as he's flying with his balloons

 

[Scott!]

Whenever Spire speaks about Zelda philosophy, I become more enlightened about the depth of the games. I always thought the Triforce was a master stroke as a religious symbol. It's got the same simplicity as those of the real religions of our world. The cross, the Star of David, etc. Having played just about every canon Zelda game that isn't multi-player, and not being a very religious person, the Triforce is just as powerful and significant a symbol as the others. And in the games, especially OoT and TP, where we see the most of Hyrule, the Triforce is as present as crosses in a Christian nation. Temples with it front and center. And then, their creation myth, their relics, and all that. As I said, I'm not a religious person, but in both Hyrule and our world, I love the religious symbolism because of the power behind it.

I kind of think it's funny how you talk about the power of the number three compared to two, and triangles and all that, while you also say that you see Link and Ganon and one and the same, creating a dualism there as well. The dual nature of things is just as big a theme in Zelda though. Light and Dark worlds, past and future, Hyrule and Termina, Labrynna and Holodrum, and on. 2 and 3 are both incredibly significant to the Zelda games. Then of course, is the 4-based Majora's Mask, with 4 giants, 4 directions, and things coming generally in fours. 4 dungeons, 4 transformational masks. But this world, which shares its dual nature with Hyrule, is doomed by its partner's nature of 3. Forsaken by the 3 goddesses, the Triforce is shown only in disgrace, and yet the moon will crash in 3 days after the hero of Hyrule arrives. Symbolism is fun.

 

[Spire]

Whenever Spire speaks about Zelda philosophy, I become more enlightened about the depth of the games. I always thought the Triforce was a master stroke as a religious symbol. It's got the same simplicity as those of the real religions of our world. The cross, the Star of David, etc. Having played just about every canon Zelda game that isn't multi-player, and not being a very religious person, the Triforce is just as powerful and significant a symbol as the others. And in the games, especially OoT and TP, where we see the most of Hyrule, the Triforce is as present as crosses in a Christian nation. Temples with it front and center. And then, their creation myth, their relics, and all that. As I said, I'm not a religious person, but in both Hyrule and our world, I love the religious symbolism because of the power behind it.

I kind of think it's funny how you talk about the power of the number three compared to two, and triangles and all that, while you also say that you see Link and Ganon and one and the same, creating a dualism there as well. The dual nature of things is just as big a theme in Zelda though. Light and Dark worlds, past and future, Hyrule and Termina, Labrynna and Holodrum, and on. 2 and 3 are both incredibly significant to the Zelda games. Then of course, is the 4-based Majora's Mask, with 4 giants, 4 directions, and things coming generally in fours. 4 dungeons, 4 transformational masks. But this world, which shares its dual nature with Hyrule, is doomed by its partner's nature of 3. Forsaken by the 3 goddesses, the Triforce is shown only in disgrace, and yet the moon will crash in 3 days after the hero of Hyrule arrives. Symbolism is fun.

Awwww shucks

The religious significance in the Triforce is something I did not point out, and very much thank you for doing so. While Zelda is not a religiously oppressive series at all, it certainly has created a veil of this fictitious belief over the wonderful world of Hyrule.

Well here's something else for you. Termina may be based on four, but four is simply an advanced form of two. Hence, Hyrule, the world of three is opposite to Termina, the world of two (four). North is opposite of South, East is opposite of West; Fierce Deity is opposite of Majora.

 

[SinkingHigher]

That's what I was thinking at first, but I don't know if it really works.

I mean... the entire game is sort of based on the idea of a clock, which since the Domino Clock in 1917 has been based on the number 4. That's all you need to tell time. 4 positions. 3, 6, 9, 12. East, South, West, North. Link, Deku, Zora, Goron. Ocean, Canyon, Mountain, Swamp. Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, etc...

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but perhaps the mirror version of 2 is 4, instead of the better version of it.

I know a LOT of Zelda has to do with opposites, especially in MM (Sun and Moon masks for one), but I think the big issue here is time. If the numerology was to focus on anything in this specific game, I'd say it was 4.

 

[Ochobobo]

Ocean, Canyon, Mountain, Swamp

The four who are there, BRING THEM HERE.

 

[SkylerOcon]

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/58485

Though it's called 'Song of Storms' and not 'Windmill', as the creator of the song titled it, it's an excellent remake.

 

[God Didi]

That's what I was thinking at first, but I don't know if it really works.

I mean... the entire game is sort of based on the idea of a clock, which since the Domino Clock in 1917 has been based on the number 4. That's all you need to tell time. 4 positions. 3, 6, 9, 12. East, South, West, North. Link, Deku, Zora, Goron. Ocean, Canyon, Mountain, Swamp. Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, etc...

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but perhaps the mirror version of 2 is 4, instead of the better version of it.

I know a LOT of Zelda has to do with opposites, especially in MM (Sun and Moon masks for one), but I think the big issue here is time. If the numerology was to focus on anything in this specific game, I'd say it was 4.

i completely agree though if it is going to based on numerology what u think will be the four??

 

[Spire]

i completely agree though if it is going to based on numerology what u think will be the four??

Well, if you had read correctly, and/or had any knowledge whatsoever of Majora's Mask, you would know that Termina is based on the number four.

 

[Clownbot]

A (kind of old but still) EPIC video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRv8gnBMiWM

And if you've already seen it, you just might want to see it again because of its epicness.

Also, the Song of Storms mix was pretty good.

 

[Scott!]

I love that video, Clownbot. It's been one of my favorites for a while. That guy's awesome.

 

[derek.haines]

Zelda music?

Gerudo Valley, orchestrated or original version. One of my top 10 favorite songs of all time, period.

 

[Phantom7]

Whenever Spire speaks about Zelda philosophy, I become more enlightened about the depth of the games. I always thought the Triforce was a master stroke as a religious symbol. It's got the same simplicity as those of the real religions of our world. The cross, the Star of David, etc. Having played just about every canon Zelda game that isn't multi-player, and not being a very religious person, the Triforce is just as powerful and significant a symbol as the others. And in the games, especially OoT and TP, where we see the most of Hyrule, the Triforce is as present as crosses in a Christian nation. Temples with it front and center. And then, their creation myth, their relics, and all that. As I said, I'm not a religious person, but in both Hyrule and our world, I love the religious symbolism because of the power behind it.

I kind of think it's funny how you talk about the power of the number three compared to two, and triangles and all that, while you also say that you see Link and Ganon and one and the same, creating a dualism there as well. The dual nature of things is just as big a theme in Zelda though. Light and Dark worlds, past and future, Hyrule and Termina, Labrynna and Holodrum, and on. 2 and 3 are both incredibly significant to the Zelda games. Then of course, is the 4-based Majora's Mask, with 4 giants, 4 directions, and things coming generally in fours. 4 dungeons, 4 transformational masks. But this world, which shares its dual nature with Hyrule, is doomed by its partner's nature of 3. Forsaken by the 3 goddesses, the Triforce is shown only in disgrace, and yet the moon will crash in 3 days after the hero of Hyrule arrives. Symbolism is fun.

Speaking of comparing religious symbols to Zelda symbols, I've noticed how well the symbols mentioned in Revelation of the Bible compare to Ocarina of Time.

Goddesses - God
Link - Jesus Christ
Triforce - The fact that there are three represents the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)
Ganondorf - the beast from the earth (Antichrist)
Forest, Fire, Water, Shadow, Spirit, Light, and Time Temples - the seven churches.
Seven Sages - Seven angels (including Zelda)
The Sacred Realm - Heaven

Ganondorf's betrayal of the king of Hyrule makes him out to obviously be the beast, or the Antichrist. Look for some verses in Revelation about the Antichrist, and you'll notice the similarities it has to Ganondorf. When Ganondorf destroys Hyrule, that section of the story corresponds to the doomsday. Once that is finished, Link returns from the Heavens in the end and saves the world - corresponding to the prophecy of Christ returning in the end.

...Just a thought.

But, anyone else think the Great Deku Tree, Jabun, and Valoo could be reincarnated from the goddesses? Of course, in OoT, in would probably be GDT, Jabu-Jabu, and the Biggoron.

 

[§leepy God]

Zelda music?

Gerudo Valley, orchestrated or original version. One of my top 10 favorite songs of all time, period.

♪ That song should be in everyone's top 10 favroite songs of all time, if it's not it's ether they never heard of it, or if they heard it and didn't like it, they must be nuts. XD †

 

[Spire]

♪ That song should be in everyone's top 10 favroite songs of all time, if it's not it's ether they never heard of it, or if they heard it and didn't like it, they must be nuts. XD †

It certainly is not in my top 10 favorite songs of all time, let alone top 10 Zelda themes. I'm sure we've done this before, but my absolute favorite 10 Zelda themes are as follows (in no particular order):

- Requiem of Spirit
- Spirit Temple
- Potion Shop
- Song of Healing
- Pirates' Fortress
- Stone Tower Temple
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Snowpeak
- Twilight
- Dark World

@ Phantom7 - Interesting connection. Only thing I'd love to call you out on is the fact that the Gorons do not worship Biggoron, rather Death Mountain itself.

 

[toon_marth]

It certainly is not in my top 10 favorite songs of all time, let alone top 10 Zelda themes. I'm sure we've done this before, but my absolute favorite 10 Zelda themes are as follows (in no particular order):

- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Gerudo Desert (TP)

Edited for correctness.

 

[Ochobobo]

It certainly is not in my top 10 favorite songs of all time, let alone top 10 Zelda themes. I'm sure we've done this before, but my absolute favorite 10 Zelda themes are as follows (in no particular order):

- Requiem of Spirit
- Spirit Temple
- Potion Shop
- Song of Healing
- Pirates' Fortress
- Stone Tower Temple
- Gerudo Desert (TP)
- Snowpeak
- Twilight
- Dark World

@ Phantom7 - Interesting connection. Only thing I'd love to call you out on is the fact that the Gorons do not worship Biggoron, rather Death Mountain itself.

Come on, no Link's Awakening? Some of the best tracks are in there. (They need to redo the gameboy beeps with a live orchestra lolol)

 

[Clownbot]

That was an awesome top 10 list.

The fact that there's no Song of Storms in it upsets me, though.

 

[Scott!]

@Spire: A fine list, but a few problems, comparing to my own personal taste. First, as 8bobo said, needs more LA. Tal Tal & Wind Fish > life itself. Also, needs more Forest Temple (OoT). And one final thing. Needs more sailing music from WW.

I guess I'll give it a go, for the heck of it.

1. Forest Temple
2. Gerudo Valley
2. Ballad of the Wind Fish (tie)
4. sailing music (WW)
5. Song of Healing
6. Stone Tower Temple
7. Tal Tal Heights
8. Inside the Deku Tree
9. main title theme. Any version, though the title screen one for LA makes me smile every time without fail
10.Saria's Song

I've forgotten some, and would give a half-different list another day, but that's how it is.

 

[Phantom7]

I guess I should share my list as well:

1) Gerudo Valley
2) Forest Temple
3) Spirit Temple
4) Ganon Battle (OoT)
5) Triforce Cutscene (OoT)
6) Windfall Island
7) The Hidden Village
8) Ballad of the Windfish
9) The Great Sea
10) Hyrule Field (TP)

That's about right, but some of these are extremely close (5,6,7, and 8 especially), and there was other music I had in mind that I would have liked to include, but of course, there just wasn't room. A few more that I would probably include in a top 20:

-Shadow Temple
-Hyrule Field (OoT)
-Hyrule Castle (ALttP/TP)
-Gerudo Desert (TP)
-Palace of Twilight

 

[§leepy God]

It certainly is not in my top 10 favorite songs of all time, let alone top 10 Zelda themes.

♪ Since your the legendary Spire III and all, I guess I can't call you crazy... but still... THIS IS MADNESS!!! †

 

[Thino]

1) Gerudo Valley OoT
2) Dark Mountain/forest (LttP)
3) Midna's Lament
4) Twilight (weird cacophony ,has a hidden melody if you change the pitch , underrated music but AWESOME)
5) Tal Tal Heights

 

[Spire]

Ahhh!!!! Forest Temple (OoT), why didn't I add you! I've always considered it in my top 10, but alas, I'm not going to go back and change it now. I'll consider it #11.

And as for Song of Storms and Ballad of the Windfish, I really wanted to add them, so there's #12 and #13 too. I would also happily drop "Dark World" for "Inside the Deku Tree". I once listened to that nonstop all night long through my sleep. I've done the same with "Blue Fields" from FFVIII.

Anyways, glad to hear feedback from you guys.

 

[TLMSheikant]

My top 10 would be:

1- Song of Healing
2- Last Day/Final Hour
3- Stone Tower Temple
4- Requiem of Spirit
5- Serenade of Water (TP/OoT)
6- Song of Storms
7- Oath to Order
8- Termina field
9- Hyrule Field (OoT)
10- Prelude of Light

 

[Scott!]

I was just thinking, and I'd add the temple theme from AoL (and Melee/Brawl), Face Shrine, and Midna's Lament on to the end of my list. Good stuff.

 

[toon_marth]

Midna's Lament.

Am I the only one who this song makes sad?

 

[Ochobobo]

Face Shrine

Face Shrine is awesome! Especially with the cryptic poem Link reads while it's playing.

And of course Midna's Lament makes everyone sad, lol

 

[Spire]

Am I the only one who this song makes sad?

No. There's a reason why they call it a lament.

 

[Phantom7]

Actually, I don't get much feeling from that song, as much as I love it.

 

[Scott!]

First off, the scene in the southern Face Shrine is an amazing one. The poem, the music, the lighting the torches to see. While playing on a Game Boy is very awkward and restricted compared to the 3D games, that scene always felt very real as much as such a scene can be. More real than a lot of the rest of the game. Not to mention the content of the poem, the startling realization, the implications hidden in the game's own title. As it was my first Zelda, I wasn't looking for a twist like that. I was also about 8 at that point. The northern Face Shrine was also a great dungeon. Challenging, and it had the unique theme of not forest, fire, water, etc., but faces.

In case I haven't posted this before, it's an orchestrated version of the two Face Shrine themes mixed together in a bundle of musical love and joy.

Midna's Lament is pretty moving, which is why I included it. Of course, it's up there with the Pikmin and Animal Crossing music in Brawl as the least appropriate music to fight to. No lack of love there, but it's not good for that. Not like the Hidden Village music. Epic.