Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[Phantom7]

This is a really good point. I've thought about this a lot before and have spoken with it outside of the thread (it's been a while, maybe within the thread, I can't remember) about the subject. Basically, all I can break it down to is this:

Twilight Princess is a conjoined reimagining of A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. Basically, they merged the two games and changed the names of some big things like the "Dark World" to "Twilight Realm", and "Agahnim" to "Zant". Which of course, is why I believe the ALttP arc to really belong in the child timeline. There are just FAR too many similarities.

But if Minda closes the entrance to the Twilight Realm, how is it reopened to allow Agahnim into Hyrule?

The timeline should actually be like this:

MC
- OoT - WW - PH - FS - TLoZ - AoL - ALttP - OoS - OoA - LA
-MM
-TP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Link_to_the_Past Look at the plot section. ALttP comes after AoL - Miyamoto says so himself.

Agahnim is actually of no relationship to Zant; rather, he receives the Triforce of Power, and becomes Ganon (Since theoretically, anyone who receives the Triforce of Power becomes Ganon). Although, he is still a leader of a tribe that was banished to the Sacred Realm, he is not actually related to Zant in anyway - he is not even his parallel. They are similar but not the same person. We can assume that when Ganondorf was defeated in AoL, Agahnim became the "next Ganon".

It's the same for Link and Zelda - whoever receives the Triforce of Courage becomes Link, and for Triforce of Wisdom, Zelda. This is the reason for the name "Link". Each receiver of the Triforce of Courage is like a link of a long chain of recipients of the Triforce of Courage.

 

[toon_marth]

But if Minda closes the entrance to the Twilight Realm, how is it reopened to allow Agahnim into Hyrule?

The timeline should actually be like this:

MC
- OoT - WW - PH - FS - TLoZ - AoL - ALttP - OoS - OoA - LA
-MM
-TP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Link_to_the_Past Look at the plot section. ALttP comes after AoL - Miyamoto says so himself.

Agahnim is actually of no relationship to Zant; rather, he receives the Triforce of Power, and becomes Ganon (Since theoretically, anyone who receives the Triforce of Power becomes Ganon). Although, he is still a leader of a tribe that was banished to the Sacred Realm, he is not actually related to Zant in anyway - he is not even his parallel. They are similar but not the same person. We can assume that when Ganondorf was defeated in AoL, Agahnim became the "next Ganon".

It's the same for Link and Zelda - whoever receives the Triforce of Courage becomes Link, and for Triforce of Wisdom, Zelda. This is the reason for the name "Link". Each receiver of the Triforce of Courage is like a link of a long chain of recipients of the Triforce of Courage.

Their names don't magically change to Link when they get the Triforce of courage lol. They are born with the name and are destined to be the next link in a chain of heroes that will, eventually, defeat evil.

I think Spire means that Zant and Agahnim are the only main antagonists besides Ganon and Ganondorf, that try to take over hyrule using Ganon's power. We can draw a relationship from the similarities of the games in elements of events that resemble one another in the two games.

And one more thing: saying that whoever posseses the Triforce of Power becomes Ganon is inaccurate. The Triforce of Power was not originally created for evil purposes. The evil ones in each game only seek the Triforce of Power because it gives them the strength to conquer the lands and give them access to the the other two Triforces, thus enabling them to rule the land with a death grip. Same goes for Zelda, a person does not have to be a "Zelda" to posses the Triforce of Wisdom.

 

[Spire]

But if Minda closes the entrance to the Twilight Realm, how is it reopened to allow Agahnim into Hyrule?

The timeline should actually be like this:

MC
- OoT - WW - PH - FS - TLoZ - AoL - ALttP - OoS - OoA - LA
-MM
-TP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Link_to_the_Past Look at the plot section. ALttP comes after AoL - Miyamoto says so himself.

Agahnim is actually of no relationship to Zant; rather, he receives the Triforce of Power, and becomes Ganon (Since theoretically, anyone who receives the Triforce of Power becomes Ganon). Although, he is still a leader of a tribe that was banished to the Sacred Realm, he is not actually related to Zant in anyway - he is not even his parallel. They are similar but not the same person. We can assume that when Ganondorf was defeated in AoL, Agahnim became the "next Ganon".

It's the same for Link and Zelda - whoever receives the Triforce of Courage becomes Link, and for Triforce of Wisdom, Zelda. This is the reason for the name "Link". Each receiver of the Triforce of Courage is like a link of a long chain of recipients of the Triforce of Courage.

Again, you misread and misunderstand me. I was merely comparing how conceptually similar ALttP and TP are.

However, it would make sense to place the ALttP arc after the LoZ arc, if simply for the fact that Hyrule is much more "landlocked" in ALttP, whereas it is spread out and incredibly aquatic in LoZ/AoL. Also, since OoA is a sequel to ALttP, upon traveling to the past, we discover that Labrynna was too, once more aquatic, with "flooded" parts of the land. I'll give you that much.

However, the placement of FS/FSA still probably comes right before ALttP, as the two share so many similarities, and given that LA was originally intended as a direct sequel to ALttP suggests that Nintendo had in mind that there was a shoreline nearby Hyrule for Link to sail out from, hence, the geography of the FS/FSA Hyrule.

But I'm going to go with toon_marth on this one. It's foolish to think that the Triforce pieces force one to become Link, Zelda, or Ganon respectively. Spiritually, they may be tied to the three, but remember, neither Agahnim or Zant ever had the Triforce of Power. Ganon had it all along and was puppeteering them by dangling the Triforce of Power by string in front of their faces. They sought ultimate power, but would never achieve it as they were under his grip, and frankly, he simply desired it more

EDIT: Also, now that we know officially that Spirit Tracks takes place 100 years after Phantom Hourglass, is it safe to assume that it's a prequel to LoZ/AoL?

 

[DivineBlade]

Not to change the subject (which I <3 2 do ^_^) But someone has told me that the Zelda series (the mainstream i.e. OOT, TP, etc.) will be toned down to appeal more towards casual audiences. First of all I would like to say I'm a die hard fan of the LoZ series. Something like this is MORE than a slap in the face. I appreciated the unpredictabilty and flavor that this genre has brought to us.

Please, please, PLEASE!! Tell me this is just a vicious lie. T_T

 

[Spire]

Not to change the subject (which I <3 2 do ^_^) But someone has told me that the Zelda series (the mainstream i.e. OOT, TP, etc.) will be toned down to appeal more towards casual audiences. First of all I would like to say I'm a die hard fan of the LoZ series. Something like this is MORE than a slap in the face. I appreciated the unpredictabilty and flavor that this genre has brought to us.

Please, please, PLEASE!! Tell me this is just a vicious lie. T_T

Nintendo has said that they wish to expand it so that it appeals to a broader audience, not just to a casual audience. They want to include elements that appeal to as many people as possible...


... so they can make more dough.

 

[DivineBlade]

Nintendo has said that they wish to expand it so that it appeals to a broader audience, not just to a casual audience. They want to include elements that appeal to as many people as possible...


... so they can make more dough.

So in short, there's a possibility of this happening. Oh and what i meant was to simplfy the storyline for casual audiences.

 

[Spire]

So in short, there's a possibility of this happening. Oh and what i meant was to simplfy the storyline for casual audiences.

I doubt they'll alter the storyline, characters, etc, to be more casual. That's what the toon games are for

But yeah, odds are, it's going to be the addition of Wii Motion Plus, because the mechanic shift would open the series up to more players as those that are fans of Wii Sports [Resort] would see Zelda Wii and say, "hey that plays similarly, I'd like to try that too!"

I'm personally not worried about them dumbing down that makes a Zelda game a Zelda game.

 

[DekuBoy]

The casuals can have Link's Crossbow Training. :-)
What do you think the new one will be called? Essence of The Sword? Wow, that was random...

 

[Spire]

The casuals can have Link's Crossbow Training. :-)
What do you think the new one will be called? Essence of The Sword? Wow, that was random...

There's no telling what the new game will be called. They seem to title the games in such a way that no one could guess (Twilight Princess? What in the world..). However, there's a very good chance that it will be named after the representative sword girl, seeing as how she's the obvious focus of the concept art and that the title is colored in such a relative manner. The first game to have a blue Zelda logo.

Just think of Majora's Mask. It's title was purple, and so was the mask itself.

 

[DivineBlade]

The casuals can have Link's Crossbow Training. :-)
What do you think the new one will be called? Essence of The Sword? Wow, that was random...

Yea take that game and leave us be you casuals

That sounds like an interesting title name, but then again Zelda has that unpredictable yet tasteful presence with an enigmatic story that just keeps you hooked, including the title. TP was such an interesting title name that kept you questioning "Who is the "Twilight Princess or what is it?" They might give it a name that we can't get by just looking at that screenshot...then again maybe your right!!

 

[Ochobobo]

It is actually hard to say whether Ganondorf actually dies at the end of TP or not. Looking back at OoT, Zelda and the Sages were forced to banish Ganon from Hyrule, after he was stabbed by the Master Sword, because he did not die. Theoretically, the Triforce of Power kept him alive. In TP, we see Ganondorf standing there, however, it seems he loses the Triforce of Power to Zant, resulting in his death. My theory is that Zant was the male Gerudo of the next hundred years after Ganondorf's generation, and, now that Zant is in existence, once Ganondorf was stabbed by the Master Sword, the Triforce of Power was passed on to Zant by destiny. So it wasn't the Master Sword that killed him; it was the fact that he lost the Triforce of Power and was unable to keep himself alive. The Master Sword could have banished the Triforce of Power from Ganondorf, and to Zant, who is a better leader for the banished Gerudo now that he betrayed Ganondorf.

I'm pretty sure Zant is dead. We saw his neck break (though it could've been metaphorical, and even so it would be metaphorical for him being dead, lol)

This theory kind of reminds me of Halloween Captain's theory that Zant is really Wind Waker Ganondorf, lol.

 

[Mic_128]

Duck and cover, looks like another tingle game's on the way
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/06/famitsu-senses-more-tingle-from-nintendo/

 

[MuraRengan]

Tingle is going to warp the minds of 8-12 year olds everywhere.

 

[Spire]

Duck and cover, looks like another tingle game's on the way
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/06/famitsu-senses-more-tingle-from-nintendo/

Hmm...

I don't consider Tingle games to even be Zelda games anymore. It's like categorizing Wario games as Mario games. They're both the red-nosed, out-of-shape, greedy counterparts of their respective root series' protagonists.

Tingle = Wario.

 

[Scott!]

I began to think about possible new titles, and the picture we have, when suddenly, I had a moment. An epic moment. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what the next game will be called. I'll outline my mental process. First, the girl looks like two things. First, the fairy queen from WW, and also the Master Sword. In one moment of blinding brilliance, I saw it. Where do fairies come from? Fountains. They come from Fairy Fountains. Now, how would a fairy from a fountain look like the Master Sword? There's only one possible way for this to happen: The Legend of Zelda: Put Your Sword in the Fountain. Vorguen was right, gosh darnit.

For those of you who don't get it, go back... 100 pages or something. It's way back there somewhere int he past of this thread. Also, it's not serious.

 

[Spire]

I began to think about possible new titles, and the picture we have, when suddenly, I had a moment. An epic moment. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what the next game will be called. I'll outline my mental process. First, the girl looks like two things. First, the fairy queen from WW, and also the Master Sword. In one moment of blinding brilliance, I saw it. Where do fairies come from? Fountains. They come from Fairy Fountains. Now, how would a fairy from a fountain look like the Master Sword? There's only one possible way for this to happen: The Legend of Zelda: Put Your Sword in the Fountain. Vorguen was right, gosh darnit.

For those of you who don't get it, go back... 100 pages or something. It's way back there somewhere int he past of this thread. Also, it's not serious.

Scott, you're my best friend ever. Vorguen blessed us with the title of this game, and now he has disappeared. Perhaps he was a fairy too!

 

[Darkslash]

I began to think about possible new titles, and the picture we have, when suddenly, I had a moment. An epic moment. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what the next game will be called. I'll outline my mental process. First, the girl looks like two things. First, the fairy queen from WW, and also the Master Sword. In one moment of blinding brilliance, I saw it. Where do fairies come from? Fountains. They come from Fairy Fountains. Now, how would a fairy from a fountain look like the Master Sword? There's only one possible way for this to happen: The Legend of Zelda: Put Your Sword in the Fountain. Vorguen was right, gosh darnit.

For those of you who don't get it, go back... 100 pages or something. It's way back there somewhere int he past of this thread. Also, it's not serious.

Jesus ****ing Christ

If this isn't Proof that Nintendo looks at this thread, I have no clue what is.

 

[Ochobobo]

That is amazing. Putting the Master Sword in the Fountain will probably summon that Sword Girl, too. Then she'll probably want you to put it back in a Fountain again, maybe a different one. Sounds like an epic game.

 

[Kuraudo]

Duck and cover, looks like another tingle game's on the way
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/06/famitsu-senses-more-tingle-from-nintendo/

AHHH! TINGLE! KILL IT! xD

Oh well. If I get a chance to play this maybe, I'll see what the fuss is about.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I wonder if said fountain has something to do with the one from ALTTP (iirc) where you throw things in to make them better.

Timeline suggestion, anyone?

 

[Vorguen]

I began to think about possible new titles, and the picture we have, when suddenly, I had a moment. An epic moment. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what the next game will be called. I'll outline my mental process. First, the girl looks like two things. First, the fairy queen from WW, and also the Master Sword. In one moment of blinding brilliance, I saw it. Where do fairies come from? Fountains. They come from Fairy Fountains. Now, how would a fairy from a fountain look like the Master Sword? There's only one possible way for this to happen: The Legend of Zelda: Put Your Sword in the Fountain. Vorguen was right, gosh darnit.

For those of you who don't get it, go back... 100 pages or something. It's way back there somewhere int he past of this thread. Also, it's not serious.

This man speaks the truth. I've been calling it since day one. Link's reincarnation does not revolve around the triforce, or the master sword.

All of Link's existence is tied back to the Fairy Fountain. Put your Sword in the Fountain is basically the timeline connection to end all timeline debates. It's the Zelda game amongst all Zelda games. Watching Link place the Master Sword in the fairy fountain in all possible ways in it's 8-bit glory is going to revolutionize Hyrule.

Trust me, you want this.

 

[Darkslash]

This man speaks the truth. I've been calling it since day one. Link's reincarnation does not revolve around the triforce, or the master sword.

All of Link's existence is tied back to the Fairy Fountain. Put your Sword in the Fountain is basically the timeline connection to end all timeline debates. It's the Zelda game amongst all Zelda games. Watching Link place the Master Sword in the fairy fountain in all possible ways in it's 8-bit glory is going to revolutionize Hyrule.

Trust me, you want this.

Hell ya I want to see this. This game will make millions, if not Billions of money.

Failing to put your sword in the fountain will cause Mountains to fall. And the destruction of Hyrule of course.

 

[Phantom7]

Actually, I hate to mess things up (actually, no, I love messing things up), but if your put the Master Sword in the Fairy's Fountain, nothing would happen except the small possibility of pulling the sword out only to find that you've killed the Great Fairy.

 

[Scott!]

Actually, I hate to mess things up (actually, no, I love messing things up), but if your put the Master Sword in the Fairy's Fountain, nothing would happen except the small possibility of pulling the sword out only to find that you've killed the Great Fairy.

Sure, that's what you would expect. That's why they have to make a game to clarify the far more glorious truth. LoZYSitF will revolutionize gaming, save the economy, ald explain the Zelda timeline, all in one game.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Hey guys. Just thought I'd drop a line about the announcement of a THIRD zelda game coming out, featuring Tingle!

http://uk.ds.ign.com/articles/993/993434p1.html

Sure, that's what you would expect. That's why they have to make a game to clarify the far more glorious truth. LoZYSitF will revolutionize gaming, save the economy, ald explain the Zelda timeline, all in one game.

The only thing missing is the return of King Harkinian and Gwonam.


SQUADDAAALLLLAAAAAAHHHHH!!

 

[Phantom7]

King Harkinain and Gwonam? This thread is beginning to lose its sanity by the second.

Oh, an i ges Morshu is da shopkeepr now, lol. Mmmmmmmmmm?

Anyway... yeah, it sucks that there's a new Tingle game, doesn't it?

 

[Darkslash]

Anyway... yeah, it sucks that there's a new Tingle game, doesn't it?

Is it? Too be honest did Nintendo ever say that the Tingle games were non-canon?

 

[SuperRacoon]

OMG, I hope we get to see the Phat Fairy again, seriously the best fairy ever. Also, this is actually a pretty awesome glitch in LttP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDta...E11D2D1C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=12

 

[TLMSheikant]

LOL lame a tingle game .

 

[Deception]

Anyway... yeah, it sucks that there's a new Tingle game, doesn't it?

What the hell are you saying? Tingle is awesome.

 

[Phantom7]

What the hell are you saying? Tingle is awesome.

I am saying that Tingle is not awesome. Since when is a phat fairy awesome?

 

[Ochobobo]

Is it? Too be honest did Nintendo ever say that the Tingle games were non-canon?

I've never played a Tingle game. Are there many important references to the Zelda storyline?

 

[Clownbot]

I am saying that Tingle is not awesome. Since when is a phat fairy awesome?

You're contradicting yourself; you said he's not awesome, yet you referred to him as "phat".

 

[Scott!]

Tingle is what's wrong with Zelda games. He's creepy, and in our world, would be a pedophile or something nasty. I mean, he takes prisoners for hard labor and is delusional. Why anyone would actually want him around is beyond me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I do agree there, but it's still a Zelda-related game that wasn't released in America, and thus, MANY gamers are very angry about it.

I can't wait to see how the puzzles and such will turn out. Here's hoping for some Majora's Mask similarities in puzzles.

 

[Spire]

Tingle = Wario

Tingle is Zelda's Wario. I stated the similarities a page or so ago, but I will again.

Both are out of shape, have red noses, represent a distorted and unattractive version of the protagonist, and will do anything to herd cash. Also, both have established spin-off series from their root games.

Tingle = Wario

_________________________________________

EDIT: I'm sure at least one of you has thought of this before, but you know that small island that the Hyrule Castle in WW is built on? Could that possibly be the island that Ganon's Tower was on in OoT, but with water filling the crater rather than lava? We can all safely say that the castle seen in WW was built after Ganon was defeated in OoT since the original castle was destroyed completely. Also, the Temple of Time seems to be defunct at this point since the Master Sword was relocated to the makeshift Temple of Time chamber in the basement of the Alamo castle.

 

[Phantom7]

^ Very nice observation. Agreed 100%.

 

[SinkingHigher]

In which case,

Mario = the less ugly protagonist = Link
Peach = the helpless (for the most part) princess who gets taken somehow from her castle but is ultimately saved (and may or may not have a relationship with the protagonist) = Zelda
Bowser = the larger, slower, powerful big cahuna end boss = Ganondorf
Yoshi = the free ride around the area = Epona

And finally...

Super Mario = Legend of Zelda

 

[kr3wman]

I won't even point out the flaws in that logic, just the fact that there is.

 

[Clownbot]

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain there are more Zelda games in which Zelda DOESN'T get kidnapped than there are where she does.