Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[Vorguen]

So would you guys consider the Master Sword in OoS/OoA canon? Since it is aquired through codes (bonus), maybe it wasn't meant to be included into the story and is more of a cameo.

If it wasn't included in the game's original story it should not be considered canon. That's like saying Link being in the Smash games is canon. lol

 

[Ochobobo]

I don't see why Link in Smash couldn't be considered canon, lol. He goes to alternate dimensions all the time. Though it wouldn't matter when it is in the timeline, really.

(half-joking, but it would be kinda interesting lol)

Also, would it matter if the Master Sword in Oracles is canon or not? What difference would it make?

 

[Skrah]

It could define if there are several Master Swords, since the Oracle games don't take place in Hyrule.

 

[Vorguen]

Now that I recall, Majora's Mask didn't have a Master Sword. It seems that the Master Sword is exclusive to Hyrule only, since it wasn't in Termina or in the alternate reality in Link's Awakening either. As of now, they are the only alternate universe Zelda games I have played. Can anyone else confirm or disprove my analysis / theory?

 

[Scott!]

I don't see why Link in Smash couldn't be considered canon, lol. He goes to alternate dimensions all the time. Though it wouldn't matter when it is in the timeline, really.

(half-joking, but it would be kinda interesting lol)

Also, would it matter if the Master Sword in Oracles is canon or not? What difference would it make?

Well, it wouldn't really work in the canon, since Ganon always shows up in Smash too, save on 64. Thus, it would have to be before that Ganon was defeated. Not gonna work there, I think.

He also shows up in Soul Calibur 2. Very epic. Not at all canon, but his story makes sense in both his and the SC storyline. Pretty much, the SC evil sword, Soul Edge, is said to have made someone attack Hyrule (either Ganon or Agahnim. Not sure right now). Link defeats them, and goes off to destroy the weapon. So, bottom line, Link has been to our world. :D

Edit @ Vorguen: There was a Master Sword in the Oracle games. Whether it is a canon appearance is debatable, but it was still there.

 

[Ochobobo]

In the beginning of Oracles, the goddesses (or is it the Triforce?) transport Link to the alternate dimension whichever of the Oracles games takes place in, just because they knew Link had to fulfill a quest there.

It shouldn't be too much of a stretch that they would transport the Master Sword there too. Perhaps they knew Link would face Ganon in the end. (Though IIRC you don't need the Master Sword to kill Ganon in this game, lol)

Speaking of which, how exactly do Impa, Zelda, and Twinrova, people from Hyrule, appear in these strange lands? In the beginning it looks like Link had to go through some interdimensional portal to arrive there, and Impa just says Zelda "left the castle without any guards." Does that mean you can just walk to Labrynna and Holodrum? Kind of like how you can just walk to Termina and whatever that place was in Phantom Hourglass (Termina?)

Interesting...

 

[Phantom7]

I just thought of something:

If on the child side of the timeline, Ganon returns in LttP, here is a question: when is he banished?

He can't be banished before MM because after that comes LA, then LoZ, then LoZ2, in which Ganon is the main villain (disregarding he was just a dream in LA because he was a reality in LoZ and LoZ2) then FS.

The only possible time is after LoZ2 and before FS, giving Ganon plenty of time to return and cloud Hyrule in darkness.

Now onto TP, Ganondorf returns from the Twilight Realm. This cannot happen in the child side simply because Ganon cannot return twice unless he was banished twice. We know he was not banished after LttP, since there are further games in that timeline that include Ganon, where he does not return from the Twilight Realm or any other realm (one of the Oracle games and some other game I can't remember). So that leaves TP in Hyrule B, returning from his OoT sentence and banishment.

 

[c3gill]

^^^ im just gonna say lol.

PISSED OFF CAUSE STILL NO MM ON VC!

**** NINTENDO AMERICA!

 

[Darkslash]

I just thought of something:

If on the child side of the timeline, Ganon returns in LttP, here is a question: when is he banished?

He can't be banished before MM because after that comes LA, then LoZ, then LoZ2, in which Ganon is the main villain (disregarding he was just a dream in LA because he was a reality in LoZ and LoZ2) then FS.

How do we know that LA,LoZ and LoZ2 come after MM? LoZ Hyrule is very diferent from OoT Hyrule. LA could be between the Oracle games.

The only possible time is after LoZ2 and before FS, giving Ganon plenty of time to return and cloud Hyrule in darkness.

Four Swords could possibly be its own timeline, along with the Minish Cap and FS advemtures.

Now onto TP, Ganondorf returns from the Twilight Realm. This cannot happen in the child side simply because Ganon cannot return twice unless he was banished twice.

Wait what what do you mean banished twice?

We know he was not banished after LttP, since there are further games in that timeline that include Ganon, where he does not return from the Twilight Realm or any other realm (one of the Oracle games and some other game I can't remember).

He couldn't be banished. Mostly becuase Link killed Ganon at the end of LttP. You also have to remember there were numerous attempts to revive Ganon. Also every 100 years a Gerudo Male is born. And most of the time this guy is Ganondorf reborn.

So that leaves TP in Hyrule B, returning from his OoT sentence and banishment.

Please watch the Wind Waker Intro. It mentions that Ganondorf broke out of his imprisonment. So the Gods flooded Hyrule to stop him.


Interesting to note in Wind Waker's intro.

Here is Link defeating Ganon. As you can see he's wielding the master Sword.

Here you can see Link going away from Hyrule, with a different looking sword. This sword looks alot like the Kokiri Sword.

Wait a minute. The Wind Waker intro both tells the ending of the two differnt paths of Link. Is it possible that the Hyilians of the Adult Time line created the Majora Mask legend from rumors of a another land named Termina, while in a cruel twist of fate, it actualy happens in the Child time line? It mentions that the Hyilians in the Wind Waker Intro mention they were waiting for the hero of time. It never mentions that he went BACK in the time. They must of thought he went to Termina, while in crazy reality, he does in the Child Time Line.

Also another interesting thing to note. The last scene of Link in Twilight Princess.

Really looks fimiliar to the above intro scene doesn't it? Really odd that both the Kokiri sword and the Ordon Sword, have similar designs.

 

[Vorguen]

There would have to be more games coming out that basically are designed to link the missing pieces of the timeline.

I still think Spire's idea of a merger of timeline's (IE Ganon returns in one timeline while the hero is born in another, and so the goddesses merge time so Hyrule can be saved).

Speculation is at its best right now, but we still have to see what the new game can piece together. It seems the presence of the train and other things are still bringing up more questions than answers.

 

[SuperRacoon]

Time line wise, I really don't think Spirit Tracks is gonna fill any existing holes, sort of like the Minish Cap, a really fun game, but was a bit of a side quest as far as the main framework of the timeline surrounding Ganon and everything is concerned.

 

[Vorguen]

That doesn't matter, the timeline isn't the only important aspect of the Zelda universe. In fact, even though I believe with the presence of many new things, it COULD reveal missing links in the timeline, but even then, the least it would do is just fall in between several games and really have no impact to the timeline.

Timeline aside, Spirit Tracks could end up being a unique, different Zelda game. Hopefully it becomes as good as the classics.

 

[SuperRacoon]

yeah, I know that, Minish Cap and Four Swords are awesome games, they're just not as relevant to the main timeline as Ocarina of Time, or Windwaker. Merely stating that at this point in time, I'm not expecting it to fill any plot holes.

It'll be a fun game regardless.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I was just thinking... Do you think Nintendo hasn't released VC Majora's mask in NA because the download volume might crash the server?

It would explain why there are so few N64 games on the VC, considering they are always the biggest games.

 

[Spire]

Wait a minute. The Wind Waker intro both tells the ending of the two differnt paths of Link. Is it possible that the Hyilians of the Adult Time line created the Majora Mask legend from rumors of a another land named Termina, while in a cruel twist of fate, it actualy happens in the Child time line? It mentions that the Hyilians in the Wind Waker Intro mention they were waiting for the hero of time. It never mentions that he went BACK in the time. They must of thought he went to Termina, while in crazy reality, he does in the Child Time Line.

Also another interesting thing to note. The last scene of Link in Twilight Princess.

Really looks fimiliar to the above intro scene doesn't it?

In accordance to the WW intro, no one knew what happened to Link after Ganon was defeated. All that was known is that Link rose to save Hyrule by confronting and defeating Ganon, and vanished immediately after. Just as Link rose up from the woods, from seemingly no where, again did the citizens of Hyrule think that he would reemerge.

Actually, if the last scene in Twilight Princess with Link looks like anything, it's the intro to Majora's Mask. What I find interesting is how both Navi and Midna leave Link as both OoT and TP conclude, with he and Zelda left to resolve and restore Hyrule. However, if we count the intro to MM as an extended ending to OoT, then OoT and TP end the same way, with Link riding Epona off into the depths of the Lost Woods.

Could this signify that we may see Termina again in the next Zelda game? If so, I think it's safe to assume that they have advanced technologically to steampunk, as a century or so would probably spark an industrial revolution in Termina - given the advanced technology that they had circa OoT/MM.

 

[toon_marth]

Could this signify that we may see Termina again in the next Zelda game? If so, I think it's safe to assume that they have advanced technologically to steampunk, as a century or so would probably spark an industrial revolution in Termina - given the advanced technology that they had circa OoT/MM.

After Miyamoto announced a new Zelda game for the Wii being developed, I was excited...

This just made me even more excited. Although, I was kinda hoping for a brand new Link. That's probably not going to happen though. Either a sequel to TP or another TOON link is probable.

But spire... I really hope said quote comes true.

 

[comboking]

Miyamoto anounced a new Zelda game?

 

[Spire]

After Miyamoto announced a new Zelda game for the Wii being developed, I was excited...

This just made me even more excited. Although, I was kinda hoping for a brand new Link. That's probably not going to happen though. Either a sequel to TP or another TOON link is probable.

But spire... I really hope said quote comes true.

It would be great to see a lot of the speculative ideas from this thread come true in Zelda Wii.

But, it would be even better if they do something completely different than anything we could possibly expect - a conglomerate of innovative ideas that take the series to an entirely different scale altogether.

Miyamoto anounced a new Zelda game?

Yeah, at E3 last year. But, no information was released at all.

 

[comboking]

We should send nintendo a link to this thread.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

We should send nintendo a link to this thread.

I guess, but why?

 

[SkylerOcon]

We should send nintendo a link to this thread.

I'm pretty sure that Nintendo has already figured out all that we've discussed here, and probably more. They did make the games, after all.

 

[c3gill]

We should send nintendo threats until they put MM on North America's VC.

fixed. and agreed.

and agree with Skyler

 

[The Halloween Captain]

fixed. and agreed.

and agree with Skyler

I can kind of understand nostalgia. And I can kind of understand wanting to go back to a good childhood game.

But it's been 10 years. The graphics are awful and ugly by today's standards, the controls are bad by today's standards, and most the people who will buy it will only do so because they already bought a copy for their N64 when it came out.

 

[toon_marth]

I guess, but why?

Why not? This thread is full of great theories and ideas for new games .

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Why not? This thread is full of great theories and ideas for new games .

Great theory number 1:
Zelda themes are selected through highly intricate focus tests conducted on five year olds shortly after a meal consisting of red bull and candy bars.

Great theory number 2:
The timeline is completely arbitrary and can be changed at any time. Overlapping themes makes this possible, because it is statistically impossible to make a timeline that does not have contradictions. Even with time travel explanations contradictions have arisen.

Great theory number 3:
The timelines in OoT and WW were remarkably parallel, until Zant took over hyrule. In the WW timeline, there is no Midna, and Zant simply becomes Ganondorf as Ganondorf transfers all his power to Zant (my timeline theory).

 

[Scott!]

Spire III: you have all the best ideas. I want steampunk Termina like nobody's business.

 

[Spire]

Spire III: you have all the best ideas. I want steampunk Termina like nobody's business.

Then somebody package me up and ship me over to Nintendo, because I'd love to educate 'em.

But thanks man

 

[Skrah]

Steampunk's really not my style. It would be an interesting change, but I like the medieval setting more.

Although Spire does come up with very cool ideas.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Steampunk's really not my style. It would be an interesting change, but I like the medieval setting more.

Although Spire does come up with very cool ideas.

Which is why he belongs at Sony, ironically.

Nintendo isn't big on "cool" - it's a quality not found in a single one of their mascots.

 

[Spire]

It's strange, but we all (okay most of us) have an inclination towards Termina and all the mysteries surrounding it. Perhaps it is because it was second world saved by our beloved Hero of Time, With Majora's Mask being the second, and only other game that he was featured in. Other than that, it is the only other world besides Hyrule depicted in 3D (not counting both regions of the Great Sea as seen in WW and PH; nor the Twilight Realm).

But it seems as if we all have a certain obsession with it for whatever reason. Perhaps it is because subconsciously, we know it's going to return to the series with the next installment. Also, the sudden emergence of MM on VC may possibly be building up to the announcement of Zelda Wii, and hence, the second Terminian game. I have a strong feeling that Termina is going to be tied in to this coming Zelda title.

Which is why he belongs at Sony, ironically.

Nintendo isn't big on "cool" - it's a quality not found in a single one of their mascots.

Hehe, perhaps so. Although, Captain Falcon and Samus are debatable. I think both of them are bad*** cool. I'm almost positive that I will be heading into the video game industry in these coming years, so who knows where I'll end up? Maybe I'll get a gig at Retro Studios in Austin

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Hehe, perhaps so. Although, Captain Falcon and Samus are debatable. I think both of them are bad*** cool. I'm almost positive that I will be heading into the video game industry in these coming years, so who knows where I'll end up? Maybe I'll get a gig at Retro Studios in Austin

How do you get into the industry?

 

[Spire]

How do you get into the industry?

Well I personally have connections as someone close to me works for GamingTrend and knows the right kind of people. However, I'm hoping my artwork will get me a position as a concept artist/designer somewhere, someday. Anyways, back to Zelda.

 

[Scott!]

Samus is beyond any question very cool. If she isn't cool, then your definition of cool is wrong. Of course, I also think Link is pretty cool too, in all his fairy-boy glory.

Concerning Termina and our seeming obsession with it, I think it's partially tied to our pretty much unanimous love of OoT. I mean, probably all of us had our outlooks on games changed by it. I know for me, it set my standards for excellence in a game. A direct sequel is going to have deep-seated meaning as well, especially when it's great in its own right. But it's also probably due to how that's all of Termina we ever heard, before or since. After OoT, there's plenty more of Hyrule to satisfy our interests and curiosity. But Termina hasn't returned. Throw in the fact that we all went into Termina and re-encountered tons of characters we knew and had become fond of already, and the emotional attachment to the world was inevitable.

And if that weren't enough, the whole game is about saving the world. Not just the people, mind you, but the world itself. Everything there will be obliterated if you fail. In MM, we were bound to the land as well as the people. In OoT, despite the chaos and destruction Ganon caused, all of Hyrule was still recognizable. Even in the hellhole that once was Hyrule Castle, the remnants of the gates still stand, and the town still stands in ruins. Hyrule survives its greatest calamity intact, though severely wounded. But Termina would be entirely wiped off the face of its alternate dimension map. As we play, we see all that would be removed, and our attachment goes to Termina.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Samus is beyond any question very cool. If she isn't cool, then your definition of cool is wrong. Of course, I also think Link is pretty cool too, in all his fairy-boy glory.

Concerning Termina and our seeming obsession with it, I think it's partially tied to our pretty much unanimous love of OoT. I mean, probably all of us had our outlooks on games changed by it. I know for me, it set my standards for excellence in a game. A direct sequel is going to have deep-seated meaning as well, especially when it's great in its own right. But it's also probably due to how that's all of Termina we ever heard, before or since. After OoT, there's plenty more of Hyrule to satisfy our interests and curiosity. But Termina hasn't returned. Throw in the fact that we all went into Termina and re-encountered tons of characters we knew and had become fond of already, and the emotional attachment to the world was inevitable.

And if that weren't enough, the whole game is about saving the world. Not just the people, mind you, but the world itself. Everything there will be obliterated if you fail. In MM, we were bound to the land as well as the people. In OoT, despite the chaos and destruction Ganon caused, all of Hyrule was still recognizable. Even in the hellhole that once was Hyrule Castle, the remnants of the gates still stand, and the town still stands in ruins. Hyrule survives its greatest calamity intact, though severely wounded. But Termina would be entirely wiped off the face of its alternate dimension map. As we play, we see all that would be removed, and our attachment goes to Termina.

To be honest, I actually find Ganondorf to be more realistic than world destruction.

World Destruction is a cliche that I see way too much, considering if the world were brought to the brink as many times as video games say it is, then the world should have been destroyed eons ago according to simple probability.

Although I do have to admit, it's a cliche Zelda very rarely deals with.

Also, Samus is a mute in a bright orange jumpsuit. Her cool factor is derived entirely from her actions and abilities. Her personality is difficult to ascertain because of her silence, and any affinity for her appearance was caused by the fact that being her and doing those stunts is awesome, which in turn indicates that her popularity comes entirely from her games being awesome, as her games are about doing awesome stunts.

 

[Ochobobo]

Anyone here ever notice any similarities in appearance between the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass and the Windfish in Link's Awakening?

It kind of looks like the Ocean King looks very similar except without all the makeup we see on the Windfish.

They could just be related. They are both magical white whales after all.

If they are the same though, it is interesting to note that they're placed on opposite sides of the timeline.

 

[Spire]

But Halloween Cap'n, look at the world we were saving and how it was threatened. By playing on the "man in the moon" fairytale by literally giving the Moon a grimacing face and casting it down upon the world, you would not only see the destruction of such an odd, inverse world of the one we love, but the death of so many personalities including the Moon.

One wonders if the Moon always had that face, or if it erupted upon being pulled down towards the Earth. It's obvious that Hyrule and Termina do not exist on the same planet because they have different Moons, but what exactly is the origin of this Terminian Moon? I always saw it more as a character than simply an orbiting rock. It's interesting that night and day continue to commence during Majora's Mask, despite the Moon not orbiting normally.

Because of the bending of such physics, I question whether or not the supposed "Moon" is actually a true Moon at all, but rather a deity itself simply looming and watching over Termina. Why does its face so strongly resemble Majora's Mask? Are they tied to one another - and more so, are they somehow the same being? Perhaps the "Moon" is the true evil in Termina, with the four giants being its counterparts. Could the Moon have such a face because it resents the planet that Termina is based on? The only thing I find contradictory is that the Moon cries in the game, hence the item "Moon's Tear".

It truly is one of the most interesting additions to the series. Seriously, how odd Majora's Mask was - a game where a Mother Goose-like Moon hurls towards the planet that you must save from a demon mask worn by a child imp.

Just look at the premise of Majora's Mask:

"You must venture the world of Termina, encountering the same people you knew from Hyrule again and collect numerous masks including those with the souls of those deceased sealed within them to transform your human body into that of other creatures to defeat an impish child wearing a demon mask who, by using dark magic, has cast the Moon down on the world. Does that sound like any other Zelda game, or really, like any other game at all? No! That's why MM is so awesome."

In lieu of MM, we need another game just as, if not more unique than that 64-bit gem.

Anyone here ever notice any similarities in appearance between the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass and the Windfish in Link's Awakening?

It kind of looks like the Ocean King looks very similar except without all the makeup we see on the Windfish.

They could just be related. They are both magical white whales after all.

If they are the same though, it is interesting to note that they're placed on opposite sides of the timeline.

Meaning that they could possibly be one-in-the-same, being timeline counterparts. If PH weren't a direct sequel to WW, then LA could potentially fit between the two. However, this allows for it to also be a sequel to PH, but unfortunately for that theory, there are far more reasons for it to follow ALttP.

 

[Scott!]

Perhaps the Ocean King and Wind Fish are essentially the same, but in parallel timelines. Like, they were born as the same person, but the two timelines having different events and worlds caused them to develop into different characters. Kind of what's been said already, but yeah. They wouldn't even have to have the games (PH and LA) happen in parallel, since I'd imagine something like that would live for a long time.

 

[Skrah]

Or maybe the Ocean King actually meddled into Link's dream? I mean, In LA Link starts dreaming as he shipwrecks doesn't he? Could that ocean be the same in which the Ocean King swims through? Maybe in an attempt to save Link, he entered his dream as the Wind Fish? I'm just saying silly stuff though.

 

[Alzi]

Very intresting find there. I haven't played links awakening but did that whale ever get a spell on him to become human or did that just suddenly happen in Phantom Hourglass?

 

[Darkslash]

With the recent talk of Phantom Hour Glass...
Translated Manga popped up on Onemanga. Interesting how close the Manga will follow the game.

Also @The Halloween Captain
What's with the Zant obsession. Its almost the same as my Darknut one :D