Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[Ochobobo]

Ive noticed this mentioned incorrectly a couple of times now, so ill go ahead and correct it. Link's Awakening takes place inside the Wind Fish's Dream. As you complete the game, you end the game in the same place the game begun: laying on some driftwood at sea.

"To the finder, the isle of Koholint is but an illusion... Human, monster, sea, sky... a scene on the lid of a sleeper's eye... Awake the dreamer, and Koholint will vanish much like a bubble on a needle... Castaway, you should know the truth!"

It is made obvious by that reading, in Face Shrine (north? i havent played in awhile, dont remember if its north or south). If you are still convinced after that, as you finish off the nightmare and ascend the stairs to play the 8 instruments, the owl flies up and tells you that he is the guardian of the windfish's dream, and as such is part of the Wind Fish. he then goes on to ramble about the dream getting disrupted by nightmares.

As the game concludes, the Wind Fish tells you that all dreams are meant to end, and that the 2 of you should awaken together- then a gigantic steam of water shoots you away. This suggests that Link was actually inside the wind fish (a whale), and his travels were not imaginary, but actually took place inside a dream- he was an outsider, just as the nightmares were.

Link's Awakening isnt just a reference to Link waking up in the beginning of the game, or as the game concludes. It is also a hint of foreshadowing that Link will be the one to awaken the Wind Fish.


kosher?


edit: i forgot Facades quote as he is dying! anyone care to quote it?
2nd edit: and hot head's quote also? im just being forgetful, apparently.....
3rd edit: i think ima make Hot Head (color) my avatar-thing....
4th edit: AND EVIL EAGLE! ARG!

Yeah, I know it was the Winfish's dream. In the end it shows Link waking up, which I'm assuming means he was dreaming as well, and having the same dream.

Though the dream is still undoubtedly the Windfish's, and Link's dream was being manipulated by the Windfish, which was the point I was trying to make. lolol

Also, amazing roster, Spire!

 

[Alzi]

Spire III i really like your Twilight Princess Roster that goes along with the brawl style.

IMO they should make a game like that though it will be too much like brawl and all. :/

 

[Phantom7]

Is this confirmed as fact anywhere? I mean the part about LoZ following MM, with AoL following that. Because it doesn't really make sense. After MM, Hyrule has not had need of the sages yet until Ganon commits that crime the creators mentioned, and they banish him. But in AoL, which by your theory would happen within a few years of OoT, the towns all are named after the sages. Why would this have happened? AoL must therefore be in the adult timeline. Hyrule also looks dramatically different in LoZ and AoL, so if maps count for anything, then some significant time must have passed. Also, I was under the impression that Link defeats Ganon in LoZ, and that AoL is partially based on evil forces trying to resurrect Ganon from the ashes or something.

Oh... so okay, I understand what you're saying, but here's another idea: If Link defeats Ganon is LoZ, then that is when he is banished. In LoZ, Link is not actually in Hyrule, which is why there is no official map. He arrives at land south of Hyrule and travels north only to find what has happened to Hyrule while he had been in Termina and on his way back from Termina. Notice in all maps of Hyrule there is never an ocean that borders it.

What? Again, you are simply quoting the IGN timeline which, and as we have stated quite a few times now - is officially wrong, meaning Miyamoto and Aonuma's words have debunked it. Also, Link never reaches Ganon in LoZ2 (AoL), as he is never looking for him. Ganon is never encountered in that game, only appearing in the Game Over screen.

Ganon has only been seen being banished once, in Twilight Princess. But, this event took place far before TP did, most likely while Link was in Termina during the events of Majora's Mask. Yeah, Ganon has never died by the Master Sword, because it is the "Sword of Evil's Bane", meaning it is used to banish evil from the world of light, not necessarily kill. However, when Ganondorf lost the Triforce of Power in Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, I believe he actually died, only to be reborn in his pig form later on in the subsequent games (ALttP, LoZ, etc).

Exactly, who knows? None of us do. However, how did Link get to the section of the Lost Woods seen in the intro to MM, as they were significantly different than those depicted in OoT? This is definitely a longshot, but you know that beta forest made for TP? It sure looks a lot like the section of the Lost Woods seen in the MM intro, whereas those played in both OoT and TP (Sacred Grove) resemble one another. What it all boils down to is that Link is riding away into the forest, perhaps back to Ordon, or perhaps away from Hyrule to look for Midna, just as he left Hyrule to look for Navi, and this may further be attributed to the fact that Midna said that they would meet again one day, and so Link leaves to find this way.

But if Ganon was banished during MM, why is he in Hyrule during LoZ? (If MM, LA, and LoZ are subsequent in the timeline, anyway). Unless he were to return during that time period, which could have happened, but he would have had to return before LoZ, and by the time TP takes place, he would have already returned. That's what I meant by "if he's banished once, he cannot return twice."

Actually, take a closer look at that ending forest scene. Wow, doesn't that look a lot like the entrance to Faron Woods from Ordon Village, right before you reach the Faron Spirit Spring? If I'm not mistaken, that is definitely on the Hyrule map. That is just there to fill in space on the credits; it is of no significance at all. It's just Link riding Epona through Faron Woods, like you see a million times playing the actual game.

 

[c3gill]

Oh... so okay, I understand what you're saying, but here's another idea: If Link defeats Ganon is LoZ, then that is when he is banished. In LoZ, Link is not actually in Hyrule, which is why there is no official map. He arrives at land south of Hyrule and travels north only to find what has happened to Hyrule while he had been in Termina and on his way back from Termina. Notice in all maps of Hyrule there is never an ocean that borders it.


But if Ganon was banished during MM, why is he in Hyrule during LoZ? (If MM, LA, and LoZ are subsequent in the timeline, anyway).

I dont know how to say this, other than your wrong. LoZ DEFINATLY takes place in Hyrule, as we are finding the pieces of the Triforce. Miyamoto has mentioned multiple times that the first game is in Hyrule, and in Japan the game is actually called "The Hyrule Fantasy: The Legend of Zelda". And for the record, LoZ2: AoL also takes place in Hyrule, and is surrounded by Ocean. There are plenty of maps of Hyrule that show an ocean- ****, WW takes place directly on top of Hyrule and the entire game is one massive ocean.

Ganon gets banished in at least half of the games, he manages to find ways around that. LttP he is banished, OoT he is banished at the end (so adult timeline), etc. Your incorrect again, because MM, LoZ, and LA are NOT subsequent.

Unless he were to return during that time period, which could have happened, but he would have had to return before LoZ, and by the time TP takes place, he would have already returned. That's what I meant by "if he's banished once, he cannot return twice."

Ramble Ramble more Ramble, run-on sentence. your timeline is wrong, again.

 

[Scott!]

Oh... so okay, I understand what you're saying, but here's another idea: If Link defeats Ganon is LoZ, then that is when he is banished. In LoZ, Link is not actually in Hyrule, which is why there is no official map. He arrives at land south of Hyrule and travels north only to find what has happened to Hyrule while he had been in Termina and on his way back from Termina. Notice in all maps of Hyrule there is never an ocean that borders it.



But if Ganon was banished during MM, why is he in Hyrule during LoZ? (If MM, LA, and LoZ are subsequent in the timeline, anyway). Unless he were to return during that time period, which could have happened, but he would have had to return before LoZ, and by the time TP takes place, he would have already returned. That's what I meant by "if he's banished once, he cannot return twice."

Actually, take a closer look at that ending forest scene. Wow, doesn't that look a lot like the entrance to Faron Woods from Ordon Village, right before you reach the Faron Spirit Spring? If I'm not mistaken, that is definitely on the Hyrule map. That is just there to fill in space on the credits; it is of no significance at all. It's just Link riding Epona through Faron Woods, like you see a million times playing the actual game.

Phantom7, your questions are valid, your observations are generally right, but you're basing everything on one assumption that we believe is completely wrong. You believe that LA, LoZ, and AoL directly follow MM, which we find mostly impossible. We're pretty convinced that AoL, and thus LoZ, must come in the adult timeline, since it's there that the sages we know came to fame and significance.

Also, there is a map of Hyrule provided for AoL, and it includes the Hyrule included in LoZ.
Here's the LoZ map:
http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/NES/LegendOfZelda-SecondQuest-Hyrule(Detail).png

And here's the AoL world map straight from the game.
http://faqsmedia.ign.com/faqs/image/reyvgm_zelda2.gif

Check the southwestern region. So we have the AoL Hyrule, which has quite a sizable ocean and coast that pretty much defines a lot of the geography. It also has islands. And the LoZ region is part of this Hyrule. So, while you're right that Link comes from the south, he is still in Hyrule when he starts in LoZ. My personal feeling is that this oceanic Hyrule is post-WW and is a result of the Deku Tree's plan to plant trees around the great ocean to bring back the land, which that zeldawiki article I posted a week or so ago discussed.

 

[Spire]

Look Phantom7, we're not against your stay here, as all are welcome and we encourage Zelda debate. However, the reason why your timeline is considered wrong is because there is much more proof in our favor than there is in yours.

~ Why LA, LoZ, and AoL do not follow MM ~​

How can you prove that Link sailed away from Termina, and subsequently had his "Link's Awakening" adventure? There is no proof whatsoever. Plus, if he were to land at Hyrule afterwards, why then does he start at the southern border of the country, bordered by mountains, rather than on the shore? No one knows what happened to the Hero of Time after Majora's Mask, but there is proof that he could easily travel back to Hyrule, as Skull Kid traveled between the two worlds prior to the game. Plus, here's the ending image to the game:

Looks like both Skull Kid and Link made it back to the Lost Woods (where this scene is located), so Link has obviously made it back to Hyrule without sailing.

~ Why LA takes place between OoS/OoA and after ALttP ~​

Here's why LA takes place between the Oracle games and after ALttP. We assume that Seasons takes place first because it has always been marketed before Ages (including the strategy guide, which Seasons takes the front cover and Ages the back). So, Link, having restored the Triforce at the end of ALttP approaches it in Hyrule Castle (which is designed very similarly to the one seen in ALttP) and is transported to Holodrum to save Din and defeat Onox. Upon doing so, he sets sail for Labrynna (as seen in the ending) in a boat that looks identical to the one seen in the intro to LA. So, Link gets caught up in the storm, has his "Link's Awakening" adventure, then after waking, ends up reaching Labrynna where he saves Nayru and defeats Veran.

Now, what may seem to conflict with this is the fact that both games begin with Link simply warping to both worlds in a scene where each Oracle is being captured by both Onox and Veran in their respective games. However, because the games were capable of being connected, where Link actually travels from one to the other in a sort of "extended game", it is canonical that he arrives via boat.

Another indicator is that with the re-release of ALttP on the GBA, the artwork was updated to reflect the style seen in the Oracle Games. Here's a diagram I compiled:

~ Why FS/FSA takes place before ALttP ~​

Also, FS/FSA HAVE to happen in the same timeline as ALttP because in the re-release of the game on GBA, the "Palace of the Four Sword" dungeon was added, directly tying the games.

Seeing as how a palace was built for the sword by this time, FS/FSA must come before ALttP, and because they would explain why and how Ganon got his Trident. The return of Vaati and the sacrifice for him to bring Ganon back explains why Ganon returns in FSA following his Ganondorf form's defeat in TP. Wherever Ganon's soul ended up after TP, it returned via sacrifice of Vaati (meaning he's probably dead like Agahnim and Zant). Following his defeat in FSA, he must have been sealed away in the Sacred Realm where he then took over and transformed it into the Dark World, which would lead directly into ALttP.

I hope this clears some information up for you, and I look forward to your response Phantom7. Wow, I actually discovered some new information by researching in the FS/FSA-ALttP-OoS/LA/OoA field. This was a successful post.

 

[Scott!]

This is kind of off-topic of the current discussion, but it's Zelda-related, so yeah. Anyway, the Google logo today for Earth Day has a Triforce in it.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/307/triforce.jpg

 

[Spire]

This is kind of off-topic of the current discussion, but it's Zelda-related, so yeah. Anyway, the Google logo today for Earth Day has a Triforce in it.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/307/triforce.jpg

Hahahahaha, that's way too cool! One of Google's graphic artists must be a Zelda fan, and despite the Triforce being a somewhat universal symbol, I highly doubt it's there for any other reason. It's small enough to be an easter egg.

 

[SuperRacoon]

Spire III you post up there on OoS/OoA is absolutely awesome. I never really realized how they tie into LttP so nicely. Absolutely Genius.

 

[c3gill]

im starting to think that Spirit Tracks will take place between WW and OoT- heres my logic so far.

There should be a game between (assumed Adult) OoT and WW, because after the cutscene following Valoo's burning of Ganondorf, the King of the Red Lions says this quote:

"When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was seperated from the elements that made him a hero."

Obviously this implies that-
A) Adult Link did something after OoT, in another land
B) He lost the Triforce of Courage
C) He was called upon, by someone or something, for a "journey"

As far as I am aware, there has been a game released about every "journey" or "quest" that Link has completed. My logic at the moment leads me to think that the Hyrule in OoT is located in a massive valley. After Ganon escaped his banishment, pre-flood, could Link have not been (reincarnated) because he was still alive, saving another land? His trip would have taken him out of the massive valley where Hyrule is located, so the great flooding wouldnt have any effect on him. This place where he traveled to would have a much more advanced civilization, as the biggest release so far is that the new game features a train.

We can assume that Link left the triforce in pieces in hyrule, and that Link decided to live the rest of his life in the new land, NOT HYRULE. He would have been reincarnated, after a minimum of 100 years, as Windwaker Link.

Thoughts?

 

[Spire]

im starting to think that Spirit Tracks will take place between WW and OoT- heres my logic so far.

There should be a game between (assumed Adult) OoT and WW, because after the cutscene following Valoo's burning of Ganondorf, the King of the Red Lions says this quote:

"When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was seperated from the elements that made him a hero."

Obviously this implies that-
A) Adult Link did something after OoT, in another land
B) He lost the Triforce of Courage
C) He was called upon, by someone or something, for a "journey"

As far as I am aware, there has been a game released about every "journey" or "quest" that Link has completed. My logic at the moment leads me to think that the Hyrule in OoT is located in a massive valley. After Ganon escaped his banishment, pre-flood, could Link have not been (reincarnated) because he was still alive, saving another land? His trip would have taken him out of the massive valley where Hyrule is located, so the great flooding wouldnt have any effect on him. This place where he traveled to would have a much more advanced civilization, as the biggest release so far is that the new game features a train.

We can assume that Link left the triforce in pieces in hyrule, and that Link decided to live the rest of his life in the new land, NOT HYRULE. He would have been reincarnated, after a minimum of 100 years, as Windwaker Link.

Thoughts?

I like the idea, but you're forgetting that there is no Link after Ganon's defeat in OoT in Adult Link's timeline.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I think Spirit tracks will take place between TP and Wind Waker.

 

[Spire]

I think Spirit tracks will take place between TP and Wind Waker.

Haha, what? Explain how TWILIGHT PRINCESS and WIND WAKER are in the same timeline please

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Haha, what? Explain how TWILIGHT PRINCESS and WIND WAKER are in the same timeline please

I can't.

But isn't that how every new Zelda game fits into the timeline?

 

[Vorguen]

This is kind of off-topic of the current discussion, but it's Zelda-related, so yeah. Anyway, the Google logo today for Earth Day has a Triforce in it.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/307/triforce.jpg

Wow that was all kinds of epic.

 

[Ochobobo]

Reminds me of how the One Ring was lost at the bottom of a lake for millenniums until Smeagol happened to find it.

 

[Vorguen]

The One Triforce. lol

It's amazing finding special appearances for things like the triforce that you like a lot in random places. I actually saw the triforce on someone's tennis bag during a tournament. It made my day.

 

[Phantom7]

im starting to think that Spirit Tracks will take place between WW and OoT- heres my logic so far.

There should be a game between (assumed Adult) OoT and WW, because after the cutscene following Valoo's burning of Ganondorf, the King of the Red Lions says this quote:

"When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was seperated from the elements that made him a hero."

Obviously this implies that-
A) Adult Link did something after OoT, in another land
B) He lost the Triforce of Courage
C) He was called upon, by someone or something, for a "journey"

As far as I am aware, there has been a game released about every "journey" or "quest" that Link has completed. My logic at the moment leads me to think that the Hyrule in OoT is located in a massive valley. After Ganon escaped his banishment, pre-flood, could Link have not been (reincarnated) because he was still alive, saving another land? His trip would have taken him out of the massive valley where Hyrule is located, so the great flooding wouldnt have any effect on him. This place where he traveled to would have a much more advanced civilization, as the biggest release so far is that the new game features a train.

We can assume that Link left the triforce in pieces in hyrule, and that Link decided to live the rest of his life in the new land, NOT HYRULE. He would have been reincarnated, after a minimum of 100 years, as Windwaker Link.

Thoughts?

Well, we know that the Link in ST is not OoT Link, since he was warped from Hyrule, but this could be possible. Hyrule could be located in a huge valley in OoT, and I'm thinking it is. In ST, the new Link who has not obtained the Triforce of Courage lives outside of Hyrule directing a train, the valley floods (who knows how?), and the area where ST Link lives becomes Outset Island - makes perfect sense.

Btw, I'm seriously considering *converting* to Spire's timeline. Looking at it a second time, I'm finding some sense in it. One question, though (this is what really broke the timeline for me to begin with), someone explain how LoZ follows PH. If Hyrule is flooded in PH, how is it not flooded in LoZ? I've never seen the ending of PH, but there must be some way Hyrule is drained.


One more thing - I recently began a Zelda fan-game called The Legend of Zelda: Blade of Darkness. Originally, it was going to follow Twilight Princess and lead to Wind Waker. But now that I am beginning to believe that timeline is false, I'm trying to decide if I want to keep the beginning (make the game a sequel to TP) or keep the ending (make the game a prequel to WW). I've been thinking it should be on the TP side, since I've been introduced to the idea that ST comes before WW, but I really don't know.

Here is the game's story:

After being struck with the Master Sword, Ganondorf falls and fakes his death knowing the Master Sword will not defeat him. Convinced he was dead, Link and Zelda left the area to return to Hyrule Castle and Ordon Village. Midna then closed the entrance to the Twilight Realm, unintentionally forcing Ganon to stay in Hyrule instead of being banished to the Twilight Realm.

Ganondorf hides for 5 years in the desert while the rest of Hyrule's population believes he has been once again banished - until the Sages interfere and discover his location. The Sages speak to Zelda and tell her to summon the "hero chosen by the gods" to defeat the evil king. Link travels to Hyrule Castle and discovers Ganondorf's location. They begin a sword duel and immediately after the duel ends, Ganondorf steals the Master Sword from Link and uses the Triforce of Power to banish the power of the goddesses from the Master Sword. With the Mirror of Twilight gone, he could now control the sacred blade...

The three light spirits that gave the sword its power spread across Hyrule and remained hidden in the forest, mountains, and lake depths. Link's quest began by retrieving these scattered spirits, and returning power to the blade. At this point, Link now knew that the Master Sword would not completely defeat Ganon. Now Link's only option was to consult the goddesses of Hyrule.

In order to do this, though, he needed the three keys to the Sacred Realm. (The Spiritual Stones) which were hidden across Hyrule. After finding the third key, he discovered he needed the ancient Ocarina of Time. Once he recieved the Ocarina, he could enter the Temple of Time's ruins in Castle Town and open the door to the Sacred Realm. At this point, Ganondorf had built an enormous tower, plotting to destroy Hyrule. While carrying out his plans to destroy the kingdom, he locked Zelda in his lair to help protect his evil plans. Link climbed the tower, beat Ganon in another battle, but Ganon survived and of course, with the Twilight Realm sealed, he still could not be banished.

After discovering the stariway that leads to the Sacred Realm, he was able to enter and ask the goddesses of Ganon's weakness. Before the goddesses could assist him, Ganondorf had followed Link into the Sacred Realm and used the Triforce to transform into GanonOmega, the most powerful form of Ganon.

At the end of the game, GanonOmega's power becomes so strong, he stuns the goddesses for a limited amount of time and kills both Link and Zelda while the goddesses are immobile. After they are killed, the goddesses break the curse and seal Ganon in the depths of the Temple of Light. Now many years pass, and the new hero rises to find the Four Sword.

Thoughts?

 

[c3gill]

Well, we know that the Link in ST is not OoT Link, since he was warped from Hyrule....

HOW do we know this? any quote from someone who worked on the game, an in-game reference, or something similar will work- but prove it.

 

[Phantom7]

HOW do we know this? any quote from someone who worked on the game, an in-game reference, or something similar will work- but prove it.

Wind Waker is in the adult timeline, right? Sooo, at the end of OoT, Link is warped to his childhood, which leaves Hyrule with no Link. So how can the Hero of Time stay in Hyrule and begin riding a train? Besides, it's obvious that ST Link closely resembles WW Link.

 

[Ochobobo]

I really don't think any game could take place between OoT and WW. In the end of OoT, Link disappears from the timeline. In the beginning of WW, it says the Hero did not come when Ganondorf returned (and made it sound like he has been absent ever since OoT).

Of course, this in contradiction to what adult Zelda said to Link at the end of OoT, believing that the two of them will meet again. Since she's already shown signs of foresight in the game, this likely isn't an idle wish.

I know she could've meant they'll meet again as children in Timeline A, but I don't really think that's what she meant.

So really the only logical conclusion I can see with this is that there would be a game between OoT and WW taking place somewhere other than Hyrule. It could likely have Majora's Mask Link somehow being transported back to Timeline B to see Zelda again.

This game would fulfill several requirements for such a position in the timeline, and even most of our wishes as fans: (lol)

• Fits in with Wind Waker's opening as it takes place somewhere other than Hyrule. Of course nobody in Hyrule saw Link when Ganondorf returned.
• Fits in with Zelda's seemingly prophetic belief that they will meet again.
• Fits in with the idea that there will always be a Link to counter Ganondorf. The opening to WW made it seem like he wasn't even in existence that time. He was, but just in a different area.
• We will finally have the Hero of Time's third adventure.
• Will likely explain parts of the timeline if they actually have to call into fact the split timeline.
• Will probably end with Zelda sending Link back to Timeline A again, then have her returning to Hyrule to see Ganondorf returned and Hyrule flooded. Remembering that Ganondorf now knows about Sheik, she begins to adapt the new guise as Tetra as the game draws to a close.

If what Zelda said at the end of OoT is supposed to be true, then this game will have to happen. I know Nintendo has a knack for surprising us with Zelda games, but this one seems to be a must. I'm sure their version of the game probably won't be as obvious as the way I described it, but I still think there's a good possibility of it happening. lol

Thoughts?

 

[Vorguen]

Wind Waker is in the adult timeline, right? Sooo, at the end of OoT, Link is warped to his childhood, which leaves Hyrule with no Link. So how can the Hero of Time stay in Hyrule and begin riding a train? Besides, it's obvious that ST Link closely resembles WW Link.

I don't think the graphics and design matter when deciding what Link he is.

 

[c3gill]

Now Link's only option was to consult the goddesses of Hyrule. After discovering the stariway that leads to the Sacred Realm, he was able to enter and ask the goddesses of Ganon's weakness. Before the goddesses could assist him, Ganondorf had followed Link into the Sacred Realm and used the Triforce to transform into GanonOmega, the most powerful form of Ganon.

The ending is... depressing. Ganon wins, defeats Link and Zelda and triumphantly returns to Hyrule. Now with his tower built, he dwells there and curses Hyrule, causing a flood that lasts two years. Now the Tower has become the Forsaken Fortress, and Ganon is reigning over the Great Sea. It is now up to the Hero of Winds to rise and defeat Ganon.

But of course, I will need to alter the ending to lead in to Four Swords instead of Wind Waker. That, I may need a bit of help in.

I almost cried when I read this- this **** is so funny, memories of MaxfireXSA posts flashed in my mind.

GanonOmega, huh? and he wins, with the goddesses just standing there and watching the fight and all?

Ochobobo has some great points to back up my idea of OoT -> ST -> WW..... but we could argue for years, as he said- the creators have a knack of tossing curveballs to us, so we wont know.....until we know?

and as Vorguen said- the way Link is seen in the games does not relate to the timeline. while Link is cell-shaded in Spirit Tracks, we cannot place him with WW or PH until we know more about the game.

In my post suggesting OoT>ST>WW, i never used that Link in ST and WW are both cell-shaded as a thought to back up my ideas. I based the entire thing off the thought that a game DOES belong in the gap between OoT and WW, and if ST took place away from hyrule, it could fill that gap.

AWESOME!!!

*picture of scantily clad woman with SNES*

Shes not amazing- but she plays Zelda (old school style points also). thats an instant +3 on the 10 scale.

 

[Vorguen]

Just making sure. It could definitely have some relevance, I just don't think it is the detirmining factor.

 

[SuperRacoon]

That certainly still as possibility, as the only thing we really know about ST so far is that there is a train with a cannon on it and an item that looks like one of those hand held fans that looks one a tourist might buy.

Perhaps the train is some sort of link to a far off land that has clearly superior technology to Hyrule, but then the questions comes in, now where would the train go to?
There's just too many questions at this point in time, anything could happen really. Placing after AoL makes a lot of sense as that hyrule is really a vast place with more towns than seen in other LoZ games.

Though, one thing seriously bothers me about your theory, is that Link simply doesn't exist in Adult Links time after He defeats Ganon, well, I'm sure Aonuma and Miyamoto know what they're doing.

 

[Skrlx]

The One Triforce. lol

It's amazing finding special appearances for things like the triforce that you like a lot in random places. I actually saw the triforce on someone's tennis bag during a tournament. It made my day.

I saw a girl with a sweatband on and it had the hylian royal crest.
TOO GOOD

oh and she was actually good looking

 

[Vorguen]

Did she have any idea what she was wearing? The guy with the triforce on his tennis bag had no idea.

 

[Phantom7]

Oohh... ****, haven't really thought of that much... eh, there's one little flaw in the story line - I guess somehow GanonOmega's power will have to be so amazing that he can hold back the goddesses for a limited amount of time. LIMITED - that's a keyword here. But no, the goddesses will not just stand there and watch; I'll fix that.

As for ST, I'm thinking that is WW Link before the flood. When Zelda says "We will meet again" she means in Hyrule A. It is obvious that once Link is gone, he does not return to Hyrule - there is simply no possible way. Heh heh, could you imagine Zelda playing the Ocarina and Link falling from the sky like "Hey, wait, what's going on?" lol, that'd be great...

 

[Phantom7]

I almost cried when I read this- this **** is so funny, memories of MaxfireXSA posts flashed in my mind.

GanonOmega, huh? and he wins, with the goddesses just standing there and watching the fight and all?

Oohh... ****, haven't really thought of that much... eh, there's one little flaw in the story line - I guess somehow GanonOmega's power will have to be so amazing that he can hold back the goddesses for a limited amount of time. LIMITED - that's a keyword here. But no, the goddesses will not just stand there and watch; I'll fix that.

As for ST, I'm thinking that is WW Link before the flood. When Zelda says "We will meet again" she means in Hyrule A. It is obvious that once Link is gone, he does not return to Hyrule - there is simply no possible way. Heh heh, could you imagine Zelda playing the Ocarina and Link falling from the sky like "Hey, wait, what's going on?" lol, that'd be great...

 

[Scott!]

Phantom7- In your giant post from this morning, you pondered how Hyrule could become un-flooded. Now, this is just a theory of mine, but I think it's at least plausible. So here goes.

Last week or so, I linked to a zeldawiki article called the Deku Tree's Success. I've added the link to the end of my post, so as to not interrupt my flow here. Anyway, it describes how the Deku Tree circa WW is using the Koroks to plant trees all over the great ocean. In fact, we help the trees grow in the side quest where we pour the special Deku water on each of the seedling trees, and they grow. The purpose of these trees is to somehow reunify the land. Whether by pulling the islands together or draining the ocean itself, it doesn't really say. But this could lead to a Hyrule that resembles the AoL map quite easily. It explains the coast and large islands. Clearly, the plan is not completely finished, but it's pretty far along. The article even makes connections between PH and AoL both having a northeastern Maze Island, and the AoL one being larger, having had more land attached to it or something along those lines.

To me, this seems like it was put in the games intentionally to fit WW into the middle of a timeline rather than as the automatic end. The writers knew that flooding the ocean without a way out would pretty much cap that timeline, so they put in the Deku Tree's plan to de-flood. It's entirely speculative, but I think it's got a solid chance, especially with our other theories.

Perhaps, when the world was resettled, Hyrule Castle was finally open to the air again. The people went inside and found the records of the sages. (Stained glass, at least). Realizing their significance, perhaps they then named their towns after these newly rediscovered ancient heroes. It's also possible they found the sleeping princess Zelda of long ago there. Not sure how she survived all that, but I'm going out on lots of limbs here. This is entirely me guessing.

http://www.zeldawiki.org/Deku_Tree's_Success

Spoiler

Also, can we avoid the pics of naked chicks? Cause I like this thread, and would be sad to see it closed.

 

[Spire]

I just realized that Link's Awakening probably (may) comes after both Oracle of Ages and Seasons. It had been a long time since I played Oracle of Ages (never played too much of Seasons), so what happens is after beating Ages or Seasons, Link is actually transported by the Triforce to the other land, and upon beating the other game too, he then sets sail on the boat seen in the intro to LA. So, if this is absolutely true (remember, I'm referring to information read on the internet for this thesis), LA takes place after OoS/A. LA simply takes place once Link sets sail from either Labrynna or Holodrum. If he sets sail after either OoS/A for the other land, then it'll take place between the two.

Actually, I can further corroborate this with the fact that LA contains bosses and mini-bosses that are identical to some that Link encountered in both Labrynna and Holodrum (and Hyrule from ALttP), and because his adventure on Koholint Island was all a dream, that would explain why he re-encountered them. The bosses encountered in LA from these three previous games are as follows:

- Armos Knight (ALttP)
- Lanmola [Nightmare form] (ALttP)
- Moldorm [Nightmare form] (ALttP)
- Agahnim [Nightmare form] (ALttP/OoS)
- Ganon [Nightmare form] (ALttP)
- Gohma (OoS)
- Facade (OoS)
- Vire (OoS/OoA)
- Smasher (OoA)

 

[Vorguen]

Hmm, so if I understand correctly, every Link is a reincarnated Link, and every Ganondorf is the same Ganon, because he apparently can live forever. What about Zelda? Does she not age either, or is she also reincarnating?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Hmm, so if I understand correctly, every Link is a reincarnated Link, and every Ganondorf is the same Ganon, because he apparently can live forever. What about Zelda? Does she not age either, or is she also reincarnating?

Does that mean there are two Ganondorfs that are the same person in two different timelines simultaniously?

New Spirit Tracks prediction: Spirit track will fit into the part of the timeline where WW Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf team up to take over the WW timeline.

 

[c3gill]

New Spirit Tracks prediction: Spirit track will fit into the part of the timeline where WW Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf team up to take over the WW timeline.

Ill take it to the next step- ST will connect EVERY LoZ game, and give us a definite timeline that works, and will be the highest rated game ever. It still wont be the best LoZ game though, as MM will always overshadow it. /sarcasm

...... because his adventure on Koholint Island was all a dream.........

disagree. I think it was the wind fish's dream, but couldnt that make it real for Link? if the nightmares found a way in, Link could also. Not really a point that we can debate, because it goes both ways and there is no way we can be certain either way. Just my opinion.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Ill take it to the next step- ST will connect EVERY LoZ game, and give us a definite timeline that works, and will be the highest rated game ever. It still wont be the best LoZ game though, as MM will always overshadow it. /sarcasm



disagree. I think it was the wind fish's dream, but couldnt that make it real for Link? if the nightmares found a way in, Link could also. Not really a point that we can debate, because it goes both ways and there is no way we can be certain either way. Just my opinion.

The number 1 rule of making a new Zelda game:

Every new Zelda game must destroy all previous understanding of the Zelda timeline by having no obvious spot in or direct connection to any other Zelda game unless it is a direct sequel to another Zelda game. Furthermore, it must contain elements that place the game in a contradictory spot in the timeline (i.e. monsters specific to the timeline it's not in, relics that could only exist after a game late in one timeline and other relics that could not exist after an early game in the other timeline, etc.)

 

[Vorguen]

So Ganondorf reincarnates as well. Point taken. It just seemed after OOT, since he got locked away, that it was the same Ganondorf.

 

[Spire]

Would you guys agree that this is a more fitting timeline? I decided to color-code the games in which each different Link is featured in. I also moved LA to the end of OoS/A (because that's how it should be), and flipped it so that the left side contains WW/PH, etc (because they take place in Adult Link's timeline, which is the original).

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Nice. Although I'm pretty sure that ALTTP was confirmed to be after both Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link, all three of which should have come in the child timeline. This was all (kinda) official when OoT came out, in that ALTTP is after those two.

Although now I'm confusing myself, because the obvious location of the games at the time of their release was officially declared wrong when future games came. That's the reason why ALTTP comes after the first two Zeldas.

 

[Vorguen]

Why is Minish Cap considered the first game in the timeline?

 

[Spire]

Nice. Although I'm pretty sure that ALTTP was confirmed to be after both Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link, all three of which should have come in the child timeline. This was all (kinda) official when OoT came out, in that ALTTP is after those two.

Although now I'm confusing myself, because the obvious location of the games at the time of their release was officially declared wrong when future games came. That's the reason why ALTTP comes after the first two Zeldas.

If that be the case, then all of the games sans Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess would be in Adult Link's timeline. However, I'm not going to challenge you, because I have evidence that may support this idea.

In Oracle of Ages, Labrynna's present-day version has more land than its 400-years earlier past version, which had much more water covering the land, which suggests that the water began to "drain", so to speak, in reference to "The Great Deku Tree's Success" (as Scott! so thankfully linked us to).

I really don't like it, but MM and TP may be the only games in Timeline B

Why is Minish Cap considered the first game in the timeline?

Because of a number of reasons (trust me, I hate it being first, but it most likely is):
- Explains why the Hero wears a green hat
- Explains why monsters were released into Hyrule
- Explains the origins of the Armos Knights
- Has Lon Lon Ranch, the only other game besides OoT to feature it
- Possibly explains why Death Mountain was named accordingly

And maybe some other reasons that don't immediately come to mind.