Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[PsychoIncarnate]

^Ummm.

Of course he had the Triforce of Wisdom in AoL. Remember the end scene? Where he uses all 3 Triforces and awakens Zelda?

No, I never actually made it to the end.

I always get lost at some part

Ok than, maybe he did have it

 

[Vorguen]

We need to get our own Forum right next to the Pokemon section. Zelda is too epic for just one thread.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, I just remembered that Link didn't get to face off against Ganon even when he did have 2 pieces of the triforce...

Ganon's only appearance is in the game over screen

 

[Minish Blade]

We need to get our own Forum right next to the Pokemon section. Zelda is too epic for just one thread.

Agreed 100%

Spoiler

Mario sucks lol

 

[Charizard92]

Personally, I don't see OoT being the first Zelda, because the creators of the game only named it as the first one when referencing TP and Windwaker, while the question of the Zelda games created prior to these three has never been completely resolved, or even addressed, by the current Zelda staff.

Also, it is kinda assumed that OoT gannon is TP gannon since OoT gannon was a theif and TP gannon was sentenced as such, but I never really recall him possessing the triforce in the child timeline, so it is up for debate. This is especially true because of the rules of triforce physics, which state that if Gannon from OoT had to steal the triforce (which he hadn't done in the proposed TP timeline to my knowledge), he could not be the gannon from TP, where triforce weilders are born with the triforce.

EDIT: you know, no one ever questions the Mario timeline.

They've been calling it the first one since it was out, Don't deny this.

Every Ganondorf was the same across all zelda games He appeared. I say Ganondorf because the timeline is a bit easier to construct with a couple of leeway with Ganon (ex Oracle ganon was in fact a dark magic clone). The theory Zelda wiki proposes is that the triforce managed to be broken in the adult timeline, it was broken in the Child timeine, as the seal to the sacred realm has been broken outright and the effects in one timeline has it's effects on another.

that's Because Nintendo didn't confirm that Mario had a timeline. Nintendo has never said anything that there is a Chronological order to the Mario Series. This is true for DK, Pokemon, and Kirby as well. LoZ was confirmed to have a timeline, and we don't know what it is, as there was some translation error. Metroid and Starfox also have timelines, but the order has been told beforehand (and the Fact that Starfox is really easy since it is [currently] in order of game release), and there aren't as many games. Have you guys read my current one (edit: I am willing to take Link's awakening out of the middle of the oracle games, as apparently Link only sails afterwards).

 

[Vulcan55]

From what I read, in Zelda 1, you are gathering the pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom.
In Zelda II, then, you are gathering the Triforce of Courage?
I assume then that means, in whatever games came previous to Zelda I, Link did not have the Triforce.

Also, wouldn't it then make sense for Zelda I and II to follow a game like OoT (Time line A) where the Triforce has not been disturbed?

 

[Charizard92]

And this is the reason why I never fully attached The classic timeline to either one. A contradiction would have kicked out the classics out of one timeline. Oh, and also, Since the Triforce has been used in Wind waker, it would have eventually been scattered again. Power was first, then wisdom, and finally Courage.

Oh, and According to Zelda Wiki, The Great Cataclysm scattered the Triforce across the Paradox. Ganondorf, who never got the Chance to enter the sacred realm, wouldn't have known that he was given the triforce of power until it was activated (execution).

 

[Ochobobo]

Also, wouldn't it then make sense for Zelda I and II to follow a game like OoT (Time line A) where the Triforce has not been disturbed?

It was, if Link kept the Triforce of Courage with him when Zelda sent him back to his childhood.

It would explain how they kept the Triforce in TP and Oracles.

Edit: Like Charizard said, lol

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Maybe they should make a game out of this "Great Cataclysm"

 

[theunabletable]

(ex Oracle ganon was in fact a dark magic clone)

What? Nothing even remotely hints that.

From what I read, in Zelda 1, you are gathering the pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom.
In Zelda II, then, you are gathering the Triforce of Courage?
I assume then that means, in whatever games came previous to Zelda I, Link did not have the Triforce.

Also, wouldn't it then make sense for Zelda I and II to follow a game like OoT (Time line A) where the Triforce has not been disturbed?

By timeline A you mean the Child Timeline? The AoL backstory doesn't work with the Child Timeline.

You aren't gathering the ToC like you gather the ToW in LoZ.

In LoZ Zelda split up the ToW and you had to gather the 8 pieces. Afterwards you defeat Ganon and you get the ToP, too.

In AoL you have to put a jewel in the head of 7 (or 8) statues to unlock the area with the Scroll Writer hid the ToC.

 

[Vulcan55]

And I suppose that all depends on how you define the time travel.
I thought every time, in OoT, that you go back to being a child, everything is like it was before you pulled the Master Sword. Sacred Realm sealed, and Triforce untouched (And apparently Ganondorf still looking for Zelda). So I assumed, the final time travel is the same.

@ SoM: Tell me more about this scroll writer.

 

[Charizard92]

What? Nothing even remotely hints that. By timeline A you mean the Child Timeline? The AoL backstory doesn't work with the Child Timeline.

OK, Oracle of Ages/Seasons occurred in the child timeline. Twinrova Tried to Fish ganondorf out of his Prison realm (in this Case twilight), but instead of Sacrificing the pure Zelda, they Sacrificed themselves. Inpure, Either Ganon came back as an insane monster (I refuse to say mindless, otherwise he'd be a dead monster, no mind, no life, from a Biological standpoint, Ganondorf has to have a mind, his is just COMPLETELY INSANE!), or a Ganon was created without sanity. And I never said that AoL took Place in the Child timeline, I just said that if there was a problem with putting the Classic games in the Adult timeline they can be removed and placed in the Child one.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah, the original Legend of Zelda has to be in the adult timeline.

For the most obvious reason, the towns (In Zelda 2) are named after the sages... which never ascended in the child timeline.

 

[theunabletable]

OK, Oracle of Ages/Seasons occurred in the child timeline. Twinrova Tried to Fish ganondorf out of his Prison realm (in this Case twilight), but instead of Sacrificing the pure Zelda, they Sacrificed themselves. Inpure, Either Ganon came back as an insane monster (I refuse to say mindless, otherwise he'd be a dead monster, no mind, no life, from a Biological standpoint, Ganondorf has to have a mind, his is just COMPLETELY INSANE!), or a Ganon was created without sanity. And I never said that AoL took Place in the Child timeline, I just said that if there was a problem with putting the Classic games in the Adult timeline they can be removed and placed in the Child one.

Even though everything hints to OoX being on the Adult Timeline?

I could link you to the translations that say repeatedly that he was being resurrected. Not taken out of a seal.

@ SoM: Tell me more about this scroll writer.

http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/text/z2translation/z2_manual_story.html that has the translated AoL manual. You want to follow the literal translation. Read it thoroughly. It is pretty much the entire story of AoL.

The Zelda is said to be the First Generation Zelda. Which does not work on the CT.

Just so everyone knows. If I say something like BS LoZ I'm referring to Broadcast Satelleview LoZ. And if I say something like AoL BS I mean back story. BS in Zelda usually means backstory.

 

[Vulcan55]

Do you have any official translations or anything that explain what happens to Ganon During the event of MM (Or in between OoT & MM)?

 

[theunabletable]

Well Ganon isn't mentioned in MM. I already linked that interview that says Ganon did something outrageous and got caught.

Still don't have full translations of OoT ):

Jacensolo06 of LegendsAlliance is translating it, though. So far he has gotten the Deku Tree's speech and the first meeting with Zelda.

Go to Forums.Legendsalliance.com and go down to storyline. There is a thread that is called something about translations. Go there. Look through page 36-42ish and look for a post made by Impossible. He links to translations of all different parts of the games.

Btw if you guys think I was acting elitist then you guys have never met the guys who theorize on LegendsAlliance. Mostly a bunch of... well if I said what I thought about them it would show up as a bunch of asterisks. But they have a ton of good theorizing resources. So that is why I go there.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

They've been calling it the first one since it was out, Don't deny this.

Every Ganondorf was the same across all zelda games He appeared. I say Ganondorf because the timeline is a bit easier to construct with a couple of leeway with Ganon (ex Oracle ganon was in fact a dark magic clone). The theory Zelda wiki proposes is that the triforce managed to be broken in the adult timeline, it was broken in the Child timeine, as the seal to the sacred realm has been broken outright and the effects in one timeline has it's effects on another.

that's Because Nintendo didn't confirm that Mario had a timeline. Nintendo has never said anything that there is a Chronological order to the Mario Series. This is true for DK, Pokemon, and Kirby as well. LoZ was confirmed to have a timeline, and we don't know what it is, as there was some translation error. Metroid and Starfox also have timelines, but the order has been told beforehand (and the Fact that Starfox is really easy since it is [currently] in order of game release), and there aren't as many games. Have you guys read my current one (edit: I am willing to take Link's awakening out of the middle of the oracle games, as apparently Link only sails afterwards).

1. I don't actually recall any discussion concerning a Zelda prior to OoT. Seriously, I'm not sure what the deal with the first few games is, but they haven't been mentioned (by Nintendo) concerning chronology. I'm not even sure if they are applicable to a timeline discussion.

2. Pokemon obviously has a timeline. Nintendo's statements aren't important because the games themselves reference this timeline. Silver and Gold took place after Red and Blue, Ruby and Sapphire are hard to place but makes references to Kanto, so about the same time as Kanto, and Diamond and Pearl actually have a gym leader from Gold and Silver as a character, so they absolutely take place around the same time as Gold and Silver.

My guess - RSE and RBY are around the same time
DP is immediately before GSC but after RBY.

 

[Ochobobo]

Is the fact that Twinrova wasn't killed in the child timeline the only basis we have for putting Oracles in Timeline A? That seems okay to me, but it doesn't mean there can't be different Twinrovas, just like there are different Links, Ganons, Zeldas, and even Tingles.

I doubt the Link/Zelda in Oracles are the same as the ones in Ocarina, so if they're different it could be a reborn Twinrova as well. Unless witches have a long lifespan (which is plausible I suppose, since the wizard Ganondorf seems to be able to live for centuries).

If it's in Timeline A then the resurrected brainless Ganon is the one that was killed in TP, if Timeline B it's the one that was killed in Wind Waker. If in B it could mean Oracles take place even after Phantom Hourglass. It would match the sailing scene in the end with Timeline B's flooding.

 

[Scott!]

Well, aren't Twinrova saying in their death scene that they're like 700 and 680 years old? So it seems a lifespan in Hyrule can be magically enhanced.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Well, aren't Twinrova saying in their death scene that they're like 700 and 680 years old? So it seems a lifespan in Hyrule can be magically enhanced.

I wonder if their age is a reference to something.

 

[Ochobobo]

Oh I forgot about that quote, lol. Guess it could be the same ones...

 

[Charizard92]

Is the fact that Twinrova wasn't killed in the child timeline the only basis we have for putting Oracles in Timeline A? That seems okay to me, but it doesn't mean there can't be different Twinrovas, just like there are different Links, Ganons, Zeldas, and even Tingles.

I doubt the Link/Zelda in Oracles are the same as the ones in Ocarina, so if they're different it could be a reborn Twinrova as well. Unless witches have a long lifespan (which is plausible I suppose, since the wizard Ganondorf seems to be able to live for centuries).

If it's in Timeline A then the resurrected brainless Ganon is the one that was killed in TP, if Timeline B it's the one that was killed in Wind Waker. If in B it could mean Oracles take place even after Phantom Hourglass. It would match the sailing scene in the end with Timeline B's flooding.

OK, officially, yes. However, the multi ganon theory isn't among the most popular, and for sake of argument, there is only 1 Ganondorf across both timelines and Ganon was a physical incarnation of his soul, which is his physical form after his human form was killed (in Wind waker and TP). Twinrova would have been the same too, being Ganon's surrogate mothers. Being witches, they'd have an extremely long Lifespan (Ocania's adult timeline ones were 400 years old [380 in a semi-joke]), so living to be in Oracle if in the Child timeline Makes sense. IMO, the resurrection spell was either to fish out Ganondorf in the Twilight realm, or they didn't get the news that Ganondorf survived, so they'd create a second Ganon to do his bidding. This "new" ganon ended up being an insane monster rather than the king of evil we all know. Link destroyed this monster in the end. I'm not entirely sure why I put this before TP, But I'll have to double Check.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, aren't Twinrova saying in their death scene that they're like 700 and 680 years old? So it seems a lifespan in Hyrule can be magically enhanced.

Maybe just the guerodo's (SP?) live a long time. Everyone I can think of right now that lives long is a guerudo.

 

[Charizard92]

OK, I double Checked, My reasoning ain't the best (My reason was that Twinrova were trying to fish out Ganondorf out of a realm, and the fact that there is a ganondorf to fish out kinda made me place it there).

After double Checking, the only real definite thing about the oracle games is that it took place in the Child timeline (I double Checked, it was a revival spell, not a freeing spell), so either The Oracle games took place before or after. If Twinrova didn't know that Ganondorf survived his execution, then before. If they did, after.

 

[Ochobobo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCpeOwOjaYE Just went to go find this, lol. Kotake and Koume saying they're 400 (or maybe 380) years old.

I don't know about normal Gerudo women having long lives, but it seems the witches and wizards do. It also seems Zoras have long lives as well, if the Zora King mentioned in TP is indeed the same one from OoT. Gorons too I presume. I forget who had long lifespans as you traveled through centuries in Oracle of Ages, besides the Mako Tree.

 

[c3gill]

Dont forget that link KILLED the twinrova sisters, they didnt die of old age. So Gerudo women could live to be much older than 400.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Not even Zeldapedia outright claims that the Zora King in TP is the same one from OoT with more than a possibility. Which makes sense, because they use a numbering system which indicates that the kings will often all have the same names.

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/King_Zora

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Not even Zeldapedia outright claims that the Zora King in TP is the same one from OoT with more than a possibility. Which makes sense, because they use a numbering system which indicates that the kings will often all have the same names.

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/King_Zora

We never even get a first name anyway. All they call him is "King Zora"

Zora is only a last name, and of course his title would be King.

 

[Scott!]

Twinrova are also powerfully magical, so they could use spells to sustain themselves. Though Gerudo living longer would make sense since only one guy is born every 100 years. They almost need to live longer for that to be sustainable.

 

[Charizard92]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCpeOwOjaYE Just went to go find this, lol. Kotake and Koume saying they're 400 (or maybe 380) years old.

I don't know about normal Gerudo women having long lives, but it seems the witches and wizards do. It also seems Zoras have long lives as well, if the Zora King mentioned in TP is indeed the same one from OoT. Gorons too I presume. I forget who had long lifespans as you traveled through centuries in Oracle of Ages, besides the Mako Tree.

No the 380 is lying about their age (they are twins).

Most species are likely to have a human lifespan (well, the sapient ones), so It is unlikely to see any Zora, Goron, or Gerudo live past 100. Hylians and Humans are essentially the same (IMO), so they have around the same lifespan. All species use magic to last longer (ex Kokori (I spelled it right right?) and Twinrova).

 

[The Halloween Captain]

No the 380 is lying about their age (they are twins).

Most species are likely to have a human lifespan (well, the sapient ones), so It is unlikely to see any Zora, Goron, or Gerudo live past 100. Hylians and Humans are essentially the same (IMO), so they have around the same lifespan. All species use magic to last longer (ex Kokori (I spelled it right right?) and Twinrova).

Even Gorons?

Gorons are like boulders. While they age, they have such a rediculous amount of life-force, and the fact that they are literally as tough as rocks, would lead me to believe that Gorons would have an extreme longevity.

Where do Goron babies come from, anyway?

EDIT: I also just realized that Gorons are the most technologically advanced race in Zelda.
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Goron

 

[Charizard92]

Wild assumption

Anyway, around High time I dug this ting up. I found this in the Forum games, and now I make sure I don't look like a stupid noob.

http://gannon-banned.com/

Yes, this site.

 

[Bowser King]

We never even get a first name anyway. All they call him is "King Zora"

Zora is only a last name, and of course his title would be King.

That reminds me of that mailman hiding behind the kings chair in TP

For those who don't know, he says about how the letter says "to Mr. Zora" but he couldn't tell which one or who that would be.

-Bowser King

 

[The Halloween Captain]

No really, the gorons are the most technologically advanced. None of the other races have the ability to create the industrialized mines the Gorons use. Even the Oocca live in a ruin that does not seem possible for them to have created. The Goron mines in TP is the only sign of an advancing civilization in the Zelda universe, one that is typically filled with ruins that are beyond the scope of the characters and races you meet.

 

[c3gill]

No really, the gorons are the most technologically advanced. None of the other races have the ability to create the industrialized mines the Gorons use. Even the Oocca live in a ruin that does not seem possible for them to have created. The Goron mines in TP is the only sign of an advancing civilization in the Zelda universe, one that is typically filled with ruins that are beyond the scope of the characters and races you meet.

WHAT?!?!?!?! The Oocca built a flipping city in the sky- just because a Dragon pillaged it doesnt mean it wasnt advanced. Plus, its suggested that they CREATED THE HYLIANS.

 

[theunabletable]

^Oh that bit about the Oocca creating the Hylians... I'm almost positive that was a mistranslation and the Japanese version says that they created Hyrule. Or the land of Hylia. Something along those lands. Like they built all of the stuff there.

 

[Ochobobo]

Yeah I thought the 3 goddesses created Hyrule. . . Unless the Great Deku Tree was wrong?! lol

 

[The Halloween Captain]

WHAT?!?!?!?! The Oocca built a flipping city in the sky- just because a Dragon pillaged it doesnt mean it wasnt advanced. Plus, its suggested that they CREATED THE HYLIANS.

Think about it. Hard. If the Oocca had built that flying city, why on earth was it built with Hylians in mind? Oocca are very small, and do not require doorways that big to move around a city. Why does the city have hundreds of years of aging to it in addition to the dragon damage? If it was all the dragon's fault, then the state of disrepair in the main hallway of the dungeon should not have crumbled pillars covered in centuries of ivy growth. Even if these are explained, the Oocca simple do not have the physical characteristics which would enable them to operate the tools necesary to build such a city.

The Oocca can not even maintain the upkeep of their city, let alone make it, making the Gorons the most technologically advanced civilization in Hyrule.

 

[Skrah]

So who do you think would actually win if there were another Civil War, TP wise. Although the Gorons are more technologically advanced, I believe that the Zora would probably win. They seem to have a pretty organized society, they have the perfect haven, unreachable to almost everyone but Zora, they can move through Hyrule through the waterways, and they aren't at a great disadvantage when on land.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So who do you think would actually win if there were another Civil War, TP wise. Although the Gorons are more technologically advanced, I believe that the Zora would probably win. They seem to have a pretty organized society, they have the perfect haven, unreachable to almost everyone but Zora, they can move through Hyrule through the waterways, and they aren't at a great disadvantage when on land.

While the Goron's can't reach the Zora's, the Zora's themselves would have a great disadvantage fighting on Death Mountain. There is no water, and the interior is filled with lava.

Zora's are weak against heat and fire