Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[mystery_dungeon]

True, he only had all of 3 scenes of screentime in LTTP, one of which could be skipped entirely.

 

[theeboredone]

Latest article from IGN, where they conducted a mass poll on what they would like to see in future Zelda games. Mainly the question about voice acting and quick time events.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1196969p1.html

Now, before anyone gets riled up about the fact it's, IGN, 39,000 voters is still a respectable number. I was personally never aware of this poll, but it's interesting to see what other people thik. Thoughts?

 

[ZIO]

Internet polls are nothing to take seriously.

Imagine the number of voters in that 39,000 not buying the game, but took the time to vote. (And that's not even a respectable number when you notice the polls 4chan have screwed, so that number is most likely inflated and not even a good indication of anything).

Also, look to Other M how Nintendo allowed voice acting and no one was satisfied anyway.

The game doesn't need voice acting. It's the gamer who's grown lazy and has this high sense of entitlement that can't seem to agree with having a game without Voice Acting.

Also - IGN.

 

[GwJ]

I've grown to prefer not having voice acting. The quality of voice actors is so low that I feel giving Link a voice would ruin him. As any major character would. I'd never want Zelda or Ganon to talk. Maybe Tingle though; I'd like Tingle to talk.

 

[theeboredone]

Internet polls are nothing to take seriously.

Imagine the number of voters in that 39,000 not buying the game, but took the time to vote. (And that's not even a respectable number when you notice the polls 4chan have screwed, so that number is most likely inflated and not even a good indication of anything).

Also, look to Other M how Nintendo allowed voice acting and no one was satisfied anyway.

The game doesn't need voice acting. It's the gamer who's grown lazy and has this high sense of entitlement that can't seem to agree with having a game without Voice Acting.

Also - IGN.

Is it the gamer that doesn't need voice acting, or is it the gamer that refuses to adopt to the latest forms of entertainment? If I want to read text, I read a book. To me, a video game is entertainment, and while I do keep my subtitles always on (incase I miss a word), I prefer to listen rather than read. Yeah Nintendo screwed up with Other M, but you don't know what you're gonna get until you try. I am perfectly fine if Link remains silent, while everyone else gets a voice. I am also confident that Nintendo can get it right. Personally speaking, I thought the StarFox's VAs were really good for the N64 era, and then the GC games were decent as well.

Really, it's just a matter of who they get to do their VAs, and the director to assign what emotion is displayed. Bethseda released some of the VAs they are using, and a few of them are Academy Award Winners. So yes, if they get the right people, it's definitely plausible.

I've grown to prefer not having voice acting. The quality of voice actors is so low that I feel giving Link a voice would ruin him. As any major character would. I'd never want Zelda or Ganon to talk. Maybe Tingle though; I'd like Tingle to talk.

For every game that has bad VA's, there's a game with good ones.

 

[GwJ]

Nah, I'd say for ever game that has good VA's, there's 5 games with bad VA's.

 

[theeboredone]

Then also consider how many of these games have a high budget? I'm sure Nintendo can afford to throw a few thousands around for Zelda >_>. This isn't some JRPG that barely got imported, and resorted to crappy dubbing.

 

[ZIO]

Books are a form of entertainment.

Where were you during the SNES and before eras? Did you just not play games because you had to read?

Sure a game can benefit from VA, but then there are games that don't.

Besides, the Zelda franchise doesn't need the VA. It's been highly successful without it.

That is MY THOUGHTS on the issue at hand. And it has always been so since OoT when people started complaining about Nintendo's refusal to adding Voice Acting in their games.

 

[Xyro77]

LoZ 4 swords if out for free on the eshop. applys to dsi/3ds ONLY

 

[Luigitoilet]

Is it the gamer that doesn't need voice acting, or is it the gamer that refuses to adopt to the latest forms of entertainment? If I want to read text, I read a book. To me, a video game is entertainment, and while I do keep my subtitles always on (incase I miss a word), I prefer to listen rather than read. Yeah Nintendo screwed up with Other M, but you don't know what you're gonna get until you try. I am perfectly fine if Link remains silent, while everyone else gets a voice. I am also confident that Nintendo can get it right. Personally speaking, I thought the StarFox's VAs were really good for the N64 era, and then the GC games were decent as well.

Really, it's just a matter of who they get to do their VAs, and the director to assign what emotion is displayed. Bethseda released some of the VAs they are using, and a few of them are Academy Award Winners. So yes, if they get the right people, it's definitely plausible.



For every game that has bad VA's, there's a game with good ones.

If I want to listen to people talk, I'll get an audiobook :V

If I want to watch an unplayable cinematic movie, I will watch a movie. see where I'm going with this?

something being the "latest form of entertainment" doesn't strike me as a solid reason why a game NEEDS voice acting. Also, boice acting has been around since the SNES days so I would not really call it the latest form of entertainment to begin with. By your logic, every game ever should use motion controls because those are the newest gimmick, much newer than voice acting.

No joke, my ideal Zelda would relay the story entirely through pantomime. No dialogue. No text at all, except to tell you what to do.

I wouldn't mind a SotC style "language" that is basically just gibberish

 

[theeboredone]

If I want to listen to people talk, I'll get an audiobook :V

If I want to watch an unplayable cinematic movie, I will watch a movie. see where I'm going with this?

something being the "latest form of entertainment" doesn't strike me as a solid reason why a game NEEDS voice acting. Also, boice acting has been around since the SNES days so I would not really call it the latest form of entertainment to begin with. By your logic, every game ever should use motion controls because those are the newest gimmick, much newer than voice acting.

No joke, my ideal Zelda would relay the story entirely through pantomime. No dialogue. No text at all, except to tell you what to do.

I wouldn't mind a SotC style "language" that is basically just gibberish

I already referenced that we've had VA's in StarFox, but it has become more apparent and established in this generation of consoles more than the past. It's something that has gotten better and better, and now there is a chance to give characters more emotion and substance rather than watching them stand still, while we input our own "voices" into a bunch of text. You're right, Zelda doesn't NEED Voice Acting, but it's also telling me people are not willing to try and evolve the game and its characters.

Motion Controls are the latest form of entertainment, but are far from being perfected. There's a reason why most big companies have not jumped on making a "hardcore" game on Kinect or Move. Meanwhile, games like Mario Galaxy and TP barely use "motion controls" to begin with. Until that one really, really, good game comes out, sported by a big company and franchise, I don't see motion controls evolving. This is just like how movies got into the 3D phase after Avatar debuted despite being around since I was in diapers.

There's 5-7 big sellers coming out in the next two months, and only Zelda has no VA. Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, Battlefield, Call of Duty, Uncharted, and Batman. All of these games sport average to great VAs. On top of that, I think solid VA helps us become more immersed in the game.

How much longer are we gonna wait until characters in Zelda can speak? When Zelda becomes Virtual Reality and we are put into the game? Are we gonna walk up to an NPC and read a bunch of text rather than communicating with him on some basis?

Oh well, seems like the people on Gfaqs share a similar opinion to mine. Shocking.

 

[ZIO]

Technically, all the Zelda characters can speak. They make grunts, and Midna has spoken sentences (Those of which we cannot understand).


Also - I remember when we played games for their game aspects.

Oh well, seems like the people on Gfaqs share a similar opinion to mine. Shocking.

Not at all. That site is a cesspool of children who only care about graphics and other things that attribute very little to the actual subjects that define a video game as such - gameplay.

 

[GwJ]

I wouldn't mind a SotC style "language" that is basically just gibberish

So sexy. If there were to be voices in Zelda, I would prefer it to be like this.

 

[theeboredone]

Not at all. That site is a cesspool of children who only care about graphics and other things that attribute very little to the actual subjects that define a video game as such - gameplay.

You'd be surprised how fanboyish Zelda fans can come off on Gfaqs.

In any case, I want your opinions on this. What's the point of keeping everyone silent? Aside from reading text.

Far as Link goes...while I do support him remaining voiceless, using the argument "Because we feel like we are Link" is utterly trash of an argument.

 

[ZIO]

utterly trash of an argument

No more than saying

I prefer to listen rather than read.

And I've already given my opinion. Why fix what's not broken and potentially ruin a good thing? It's a risk the franchise does not need to take.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Far as Link goes...while I do support him remaining voiceless, using the argument "Because we feel like we are Link" is utterly trash of an argument.

Why? That is definitely Miyamoto's intent with Link. Link is barely a character. He's the player. Why would you support him remaining voiceless if not for that reason?

 

[mystery_dungeon]

Far as Link goes...while I do support him remaining voiceless, using the argument "Because we feel like we are Link" is utterly trash of an argument.

Kind of agree on that. I've played many Zelda games and I've never felt like I was Link.

But yeah... Link needs to stay silent. I think we know what happened the last a silent character had a speaking role. *coughSamuscough*

 

[theeboredone]

Why? That is definitely Miyamoto's intent with Link. Link is barely a character. He's the player. Why would you support him remaining voiceless if not for that reason?

I'll let this post explain it. Courtesy of "An Hero of Time" from ZeldaUniverse.

Why.

Are people.

Still using...

the player-connection argument.


Especially...

when he has...

his own goddamn personality, dreams, actions and motivations now? Whhhhhy are fans still clinging to this? It's not there anymore, people. It died off a long time ago.


Now, let me give you just a few examples to demonstrate my argument.

If I really wanted Link to act as a "shell" for my actions, then...

- I wouldn't have him run off of the cliffs to save his sister in WW.
- I wouldn't want him to fall in love with Midna nearing the end of TP.
- His dreams of becoming an engineer in ST would be non-existant in my eyes.
- I wouldn't sit there like a lackey while Midna smack-talked Ganondorf in TP.
- I wouldn't feel "all warm and fuzzy inside" while Cremia hugged Link in MM.
- I wouldn't let him start out as a social outcast without a fairy at the beginning of OoT.
- I wouldn't want him to be the popular, small-town hero/jock like he was in TP.
- I wouldn't dance around like an idiot after defeating a boss in WW.
- I wouldn't let him fall in love with Zelda in SS, or Tetra in WW and PH.
- I wouldn't awkwardly run away from Saria or Darunia after leaving them... better yet... why is Saria Link's childhood friend in OoT? Can't I choose some someone else to be my childhood friend? Cause, I mean... Link's my avatar, right?


Now remember, those were just a few examples. That demonstrate Link's character. Not yours.

I guess he's shallow enough for the player to form their own depictions of personality, but even that is very limited. Background/narrative information received by NPCs suggests this, and helps us to subconsciously develop similar personalities for each Link. Not sure if my explanation was very clear, so I'll just write this as an example:

In OoT-MM, The Hero of Time comes from Kokiri forest and was raised as a Kokiri. Kokiri are child-like forest spirits that live very easy-going but sheltered lifestyles. All of them have a fairy, except for Link. There is a Kokiri leader named Mido who makes fun of Link for not having a fairy. The only person that is declared a friend of Link's is Saria. When Link has to leave the forest, he backs away, gives her an awkward stare and then runs off. He collects the spirit stones in order to retrieve the Master Sword, and when he does, he falls asleep for 7 years. Only to awaken as an adult. Rauru and the Deku Seed sprout tell him that he was never a Kokiri, but a hylian; which would explain his physical maturity. As he retrieves the medallions, Link discovers that the land has been plagued by different forms of evil; all of which was Ganondorf's doing. Ganondorf states that he wouldn't have obtained the Triforce of Power if it wasn't for Link opening the Door to the Sacred Realm. Eventually, Link defeats Ganon and Zelda sends him back to his childhood. In this time period, no one is aware of his accomplishments, because they have never happened.

Now in the beginning of MM, the game states that Link is searching for a beloved an invaluable friend.


Now, what kind of picture do these facts paint for you, and for this particular Link's personality and characterization? Well, I'll tell you what I see:

- A social outcast who was isolated for not having a fairy. Saria was his only true friend throughout childhood.
- A naive individual, because he does not know how the world works outside of his little forest.
- Introverted and does not (like) to express his emotions very well.
- He probably felt overwhelmed by his adventures in OoT and MM.
- May feel guilty for his actions in OoT, supported by Ganondorf's statement about Link opening the door to the Sacred Realm.
- The fact that no one will know of his heroic deeds in OoT, or his desperation to gain friendships in MM depicts a tragic hero who did not have a very happy life.
- He felt very lonely/distraught/depressed shortly after OoT. This prompted him to search for his fairy companion - Navi - because she's the only one who knows what he had gone through.

And if you read most of the theories and character studies surrounding the Hero of Time, then you'll see that most people share very similar interpretations.

So yeah. The whole avatar argument is total bull. I honestly think that the only reason that they haven't introduced voice acting or a talking Link is fear of a major fan backlash.

 

[etecoon]

a made up language ala ICO/SotC could work well, considering that the language within the zeldaverse changes several times within the series anyway what sense does it make for them to be speaking perfect english to begin with?

 

[Luigitoilet]

I never said he was meant to reflect the player's "character" or whatever the hell that guy is talking about. I'm saying he is so intentionally underdeveloped as a character that he might as well have P1 on his tunic. He's literally referred to as "The Hero" in various forms in like every game. He's stock.

That guy said some idiotic things. It's like saying Mario isn't meant to be a player avatar because you can't **** Toad and punch the Princess in the crotch if you wanted to. Player-avatar-connection doesn't mean Choose-Your-Own-Adventure. Almost every game forces your avatar/you as a player into a particular narrative. It means Link is basically a tabula rasa character. He has the very very least amount of characterization to be considered as having a personality, and it generally boils down to "he's heroic". The rest is relayed through visual cues.

This varies from game to game, obviously, but if you really believe that the game telling us that "you feel warm and fuzzy inside" from a hug is actual characterization I don't know what to tell you.

It may be archaic to have a silent protagonist to some, but it is clearly what the creators are aiming for. Link is almost entirely established and defined as a character via visual motifs. When people hear Link, do you think most of them go "oh yes, the brave lad who was born an outcast and bla bla bla bla bla"?

no. sure, maybe some of them. but the majority of people think "oh yes, little elf guy thing with a green hood who you play as" and Miyamoto seems to have done his damndest to keep it this way, no matter how convoluted and dumb other aspects of the series' narrative have grown. For the most part, all the different Links are pretty much interchangeable outside of their backstories, because they have no real personality to alter to begin with. I think WW Link is the only real exception to all this stuff I'm saying.

The fact is, long time fans of the series have likely all constructed a percieved "personality" for Link. That doesn't mean they themselves are the character. I don't think there is a video game that exists that can do truly reflect a player's personality and character via an avatar. That post you quoted is a good example of the overreaching one has to do to even construct a basic "canonical" personality for the character.

 

[Orboknown]

that^made my day. logic ftw

 

[Terywj [태리]]

How many people here would be interested in participating in a Tetris Battle tournament?

 

[etecoon]

The fact is, long time fans of the series have likely all constructed a percieved "personality" for Link. That doesn't mean they themselves are the character. I don't think there is a video game that exists that can do truly reflect a player's personality and character via an avatar. That post you quoted is a good example of the overreaching one has to do to even construct a basic "canonical" personality for the character.

it's impossible because a mere appearance can differentiate a character from yourself

try as I might, I will never be as badass as this guy.

first person is really the only way to create that kind of experience where you remove the idea of playing AS a character

link should remain a minimalist silent protagonist though, wind waker's link was hopelessly caught between two conflicting philosophies and suffered for it, TP's wasn't a whole lot better. if they really have to go out of their way to make link have more personality then they should stop making him a silent protagonist period, can't have it both ways

 

[Luigitoilet]

Wind Waker Link is perhaps my favorite of them all, just because he is so expressive compared to everyone else. I think a little personality like that isn't harmful. It's not distracting and makes for a more interesting character to look at. The characters in TP looked like they had too many botox injections in their face.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

link should remain a minimalist silent protagonist though, wind waker's link was hopelessly caught between two conflicting philosophies and suffered for it, TP's wasn't a whole lot better. if they really have to go out of their way to make link have more personality then they should stop making him a silent protagonist period, can't have it both ways

Explain the bolded =/

 

[etecoon]

it's difficult to be a representation of the player when the character is constantly making outlandish expressions that the player never would. same applies to using your imagination to fill in the blanks, they took away those blanks to the point where they shouldn't have bothered making him a silent protagonist at all, it's completely counterintuitive

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I honestly like WW and don't think that Link suffered for it.

 

[GwJ]

I love the Link in WW. The reason? Because of all the expressions he makes and how if you siddle on the wall, he looks like a ninja with his eyes all squinted.

<3 WW Link
</3 WW

 

[Luigitoilet]

it's difficult to be a representation of the player when the character is constantly making outlandish expressions that the player never would. same applies to using your imagination to fill in the blanks, they took away those blanks to the point where they shouldn't have bothered making him a silent protagonist at all, it's completely counterintuitive

That's a weird way of thinking about it.

Wind Waker Link is very obviously inspired by silent cinema heroes like Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin. He's a silly little green guy with a funny face and who has more than one blank and empty expression. Having a character with an expressive face does not "take away the blanks" in any sense. By your logic, Link should be a Mii instead. He's a cartoon. It would be really creepy if they used that art style and didn't animate Link's face.

Link isn't, never has been and never will be an outlet for the player's. He's not supposed to reflect your personality or what YOU would do in any given situation. He's a cartoon character that has slightly more personality than his other counterparts. That he makes a funny face when pushing something heavy does not "ruin my immersion omg"

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So, because there's no General Theorizing thread on the Theory boards, I'll just post here.


[SS Spoilerrrrrrrr]

Spoiler

I think that the Goddess discussed in the SS opening is the Goddess corresponding to Ordona. Think about it like this, there's Faron, Eldin and Lanaryu, that's Farore, Din and Naryu respectively. It's been said a hundred of times, but Ordona has no 'own' Godess. Now the Goddess in the opening dies (though she comes back iirc?) and leaves her sword and harp. Could this be Ordona's Goddess?

 

[Spire]

Man, spoiler tags please.

Anyways:

Spoiler

Look how they put the new sword Kirby on the cover. Not only is he wearing his Link hat, but his sword now resembles the Goddess Sword from SS! Totally using Zelda to market Kirby.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Sorry broski =/

 

[Orboknown]

lol spire.kirby zeldafied may be a good thing.

 

[Spire]

Look at this!

It shows more from that image I posted a while back, now revealing Link's transformations towards the top. Fierce Deity holy ****.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That looks... pretty darn amazing.

 

[GwJ]

Is that a mousepad?

 

[Phantom Gamer]

I'm sure it ain't cause the one on the left would be one weird mousepad.
Looks to me like some kind of 25th anniversary booklet.
What's behind those pages though I'm not sure?
Kinda makes me think it's either some detailed map(s) from the games or a detailed history on the games.

 

[Orboknown]

that is wow.fierce deity looks awesome.

 

[smash brawl player 99021]

Welp, just got OoT for my 3DS.
Gonna see what all the hype is about.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

spoilers:

Spoiler

Just finished spirit temple part 1 as a kid, pretty awesome! Except the part where they kept giving me deku shields and they kept catching fire... lol.

OoT is a great game.