The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

[da K.I.D.]

I'm glad you've seen the light. Also, amazing f***ing sig. No seriously.
QUOTE]
Thanks, i bet you like it even more now

MK isn't too good, thus he will never be banned.

MK is too good, its just that not everybody has noticed it yet. But they will eventually. Overswarm did and look what happened to him

 

[Deleted member]

MK isn't too good, thus he will never be banned.

Why should I listen to a person who has a MK avatar?

 

[JesiahTEG]

MK is not too good. You're just stupid and you don't think of ways to beat him. He's beatable. Even the best player in the world that uses MK is beatable. Man up plz

 

[EvonJ]

What is a "soft ban"?

 

[smallwolf24]

I doubt MK will get banned. MK is annoying to fight and causes lots of frustration even now I have a hard time fighting it but you just gotta fight MK with some degree of Intelligence. I mean obviously he's faster than some other characters but speed isn't everything I've seen a Lucario beat a MK so that's enough to convince me already and he's beatable none the less it's like Arnold would say "If it bleeds, we can kill it"

 

[PassWurD]

What is a "soft ban"?

People don't read threads, right?

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Why should I listen to a person who has a MK avatar?

Here, I do not main or even really use Metaknight all that much.

He isn't all too good, so won't ever need to be banned, since he is beatable.
Just be glad that you main a character that is more challenging to use than MK...

Spoiler

or Ike.

 

[PassWurD]

Spoiler

or Ike.

Lolwut

10eruptions

 

[Mattmiston]

I just want to point out that smash bros all warned us about the power of meta knight with the tornado on Hylian Castle back in SSB64.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I just want to point out that smash bros all warned us about the power of meta knight with the tornado on Hylian Castle back in SSB64.

I really like that statement, it is clever.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

Why should I listen to a person who has a MK avatar?

why should i listen to a guy that mains half the staff and roy?

On a different note...Seriously this thread is just repeating that MK is not as game destroying as sheik. Every other post is SOFT BAN followed by WE DIDN'T BAN SHEIK!!!1!. Then somebody argues "diversity" which is followed by WE DIDN'T BAN SHEIK!!!1!.

Spoiler

Why is this thread still alive? It's not making any progress.

 

[eyestrain92]

I like how everyone's begun saying "MK isn't that good." You're taking positional abuse wayyy too far.

With the way everyone seems to assume Metaknight is not the too good character people have been seeing him as, I'm going to love it if he does eventually eliminate all character variety.

Regardless, I'm leaving. I can't make my point here, too much opposition, no one's listenening, blah blah blah moan/complain, fleeing, whatever. I'm hoping for a soft-ban. If it never comes, so be it.

 

[PassWurD]

why should i listen to a guy that mains half the staff and roy?

On a different note...Seriously this thread is just repeating that MK is not as game destroying as sheik. Every other post is SOFT BAN followed by WE DIDN'T BAN SHEIK!!!1!. Then somebody argues "diversity" which is followed by WE DIDN'T BAN SHEIK!!!1!.

Spoiler

Why is this thread still alive? It's not making any progress.

Because its to stop all the other spam threads, and people are too lazy to unsubsrcibe to it?

 

[ShadowLink84]

And Yuna just restated what I've been saying, the top melee characters destroyed the diversity in Melee, and they had **** like 7-3 or 8-2 match ups, so you're inferring that you're a Brawl scrub now. Because pretty much all people who want MK out for more diversity dont ever look back and Melee and realize top character dominance was WORSE. But you're join date says otherwise, so I'm quite ****ing confused.

in melee the top characters did not destroy the number of viable characters like Mk does.

in comparison melee had a greater percentage of viable character at higher levels of play.

matchups in melee also didn't hit as hard as they do in brawl.

Link vs Marth is a disadvantage for Link but we have seen time and time again some of the best marth players lose to Link users.

Melee top tier characters did dominate, hell all top tier characters tend to dominate (except GG it varies a bit). yet the extent to which they undermined the viability of characters was less compared to that of Brawl.

If you look at the ratio melee had less top tier dominance than in brawl.

 

[Affinity]

MK isn't too good, thus he will never be banned.

Why should I listen to a person who has a MK avatar?

Why shouldn't you? His avatar doesn't have any kind of an effect on the validity of the point he made.

He speaks the truth. MK may be the best character in the game, but he is far from ever being banned.


I'm assuming Sirlin has already been brought up in this debate, but here's a reminder:

“It’s Too Good!”

Only in the most extreme, rare cases should something be banned because it is “too good.” This will be the most common type of ban requested by players, and almost all of their requests will be foolish. Banning a tactic simply because it is “the best” isn’t even warranted. That only reduces the game to all the “second best” tactics, which isn’t necessarily any better of a game than the original game. In fact, it’s often worse!

People need to stop complaining. Anyone who thinks banning MK will be a good thing for the competitive scene is a fool.

 

[Natch]

Why shouldn't you? His avatar doesn't have any kind of an effect on the validity of the point he made.

He speaks the truth. MK may be the best character in the game, but he is far from ever being banned.


I'm assuming Sirlin has already been brought up in this debate, but here's a reminder:


People need to stop complaining. Anyone who thinks banning MK will be a good thing for the competitive scene is a fool.

I think banning MK will be good for the competitive scene. I am not a fool.

MK is NOT "too good". He's not. He just counterpicks like....3/4 of the **** cast is all. Badly. Like, utter **** for most characters.

Why?

He can combo like characters did in Melee. That's why. He can combo really well. He's also hard to gimp, very hard. He's light, yeah. What else? Sure, lack of kill moves can be an issue, but again, his ability to gimp and not be gimped himself is so off the wall that he could have NO kill moves and still ****.

If MK were gone, we'd see mid tier guys like Lucas, Ness, Sonic, and Wario(if I'm wrong on any of these, just replace them with the names of other mid-tiered characters who get ***** by MK) see more use. We would, because MK wouldn't be there to **** all over their parade.

Otherwise Brawl's metagame will turn into a Meta-game.

 

[Yuna]

but the fact that he is wrong on this one thing also means that people shouldnt be using what he says as an auto i win button in these types of discussion.

i didnt say that everything he says is wrong, in typical "Yuna" fashion, you are putting words in my mouth. What im saying is that people shouldnt take the things that he says as an end all be all for their points in these discussions

I never said you said that. I said "This doesn't mean that" to pre-empt such thoughs to arise in people's minds.

You're using the fact that he's "wrong" on the subject of items as a weapon against him. That's insinuating that because he's wrong on one thing, it should somehow reflect on the other things he's said.

His essay on "Playing to Win" is in no way less credible just because he's said he thinks Items On is better than Items Off. This is this and that is that. One person says many things in their lifetime. They can't always be right.

And I've never been a blind fanboy who waves every single statement Sirlin's ever made around like mantras. I just wave "Play to Win" around. If you want to try to discredit that essay, be my guest. But his statements on Items has nothing to do with it.

technically, we are banning them, because we use the terms "items" and "banned" together all the time. its just like in MvC2 they banned handicaps. its just some thing that deosnt foster competitive gameplay, so it gets banned. eventually the same thing will happen with MK as well

Technically, we're primates.

Some people say "Items are banned". I (and many others) say Items are Off. Are we banning Neutral Guard in SCIII when we turn it off?

Yuna, it's kind of obvious I've played. Once more, you're just too self-absorbed to admit that someone other than yourself may have a valuable point and you result to insult them. I'm seeing a pattern here, it's like you're unable to properly argue without getting angry and flying off the handle, which I'm not sure qualifies you as a reasonable person.

Give me one response where you don't do as I've stated and maybe then, you'll be taken seriously by myself.

I'm attacking your credibility and eligibility to participate in a debate of this caliber by simply attacking your own statements and outing them as biased, subjective, faulty, misquided opinions with very little to no basis on fact.

Yes, I am questioning whether you have anything of value to add to the debate and you gave me the weapons with which to assault you by spouting off a bunch of hoopla (euphemism).

After realizing someone is clearly unqualified to participate in a discussion after trying to reason with them/seeing others try to reason with them, I turn instead to attacking their credentials. There are only so many "Captain Falcon is too viable, because I say so!"-level statements you can take from the same person before giving up all hope of ever reasoning with them because they're either very ignorant in the depth of Brawl, Competitive gaming, Competitive Smash or all of the above.

With your statements, you've shown yourself to fall in with this crowd. Anything we say will fail to register with you as you believe you are right despite mounds of evidence of the contrary. Which is at which point I turn to discredit your credentials to open up everybody else's eyes to your ineligibility to participate in this debate, to prevent your ignorance from poisoning the minds of innocent (and lesser educated) bystanders/debaters.

It's a-OK to not be an expert on everything. It is not, however, OK to participate in debates on subjects you hold little to no knowledge of.

With the way everyone seems to assume Metaknight is not the too good character people have been seeing him as, I'm going to love it if he does eventually eliminate all character variety.

Substantiate this claim. All you've done insofar is make outlandish claims without elaborating on any (you might have done iso for a few of your statements, but my eyes were bleeding too much from "Bowser is really, really good!" to register any such elaborations, if they exist).

I think banning MK will be good for the competitive scene. I am not a fool.

MK is NOT "too good". He's not. He just counterpicks like....3/4 of the **** cast is all. Badly. Like, utter **** for most characters.

Name these matchups and their odds.

He can combo like characters did in Melee. That's why. He can combo really well. He's also hard to gimp, very hard. He's light, yeah. What else? Sure, lack of kill moves can be an issue, but again, his ability to gimp and not be gimped himself is so off the wall that he could have NO kill moves and still ****.

Characters easily gimped while recovering are easily gimped, period. They're pretty much screwed with or without MK in the mix.

If MK were gone, we'd see mid tier guys like Lucas, Ness, Sonic, and Wario(if I'm wrong on any of these, just replace them with the names of other mid-tiered characters who get ***** by MK) see more use. We would, because MK wouldn't be there to **** all over their parade.

They still have Solid Snake, Mr. Game and Watch... and Marth.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Technically, we're primates.

Some people say "Items are banned". I (and many others) say Items are Off. Are we banning Neutral Guard in SCIII when we turn it off?

Precisely.

They still have Solid Snake, Mr. Game and Watch... and Marth.

Not that it matters yet (Mk banning would be a scrub move now), but none of which are anywhere near as limiting to the metagame as MK is. Except Marth, all at least have soft counters, and Marth doesn't hard counter anything that 90% of the cast doesn't already hard-counter. He just has lots of soft counters, so unless you're a ganondorf main, every match is winable against him.

Mk can't be counter-picked and hard counters people (again, the common feeling is a 60-40 match-up where mk has the advantage is a good match-up for the char, why? Because MK seems to hard-counter so many chars). Thus, he's a very different case then any of the ones you mentioned.

 

[Affinity]

I think banning MK will be good for the competitive scene. I am not a fool.

You're right, it doesn't. You're just wrong.

If MK were gone, we'd see mid tier guys like Lucas, Ness, Sonic, and Wario(if I'm wrong on any of these, just replace them with the names of other mid-tiered characters who get ***** by MK) see more use. We would, because MK wouldn't be there to **** all over their parade.

Keep dreaming. If MK were banned, Snake, Dedede, or G&W would take his place. When that happens, the same scrubs that wanted to ban MK will want to ban the next best character instead of finding ways to beat it.

I quoted this in my last post, but I'll quote it again considering you seemed to miss it while reading my last post.

“It’s Too Good!”

Only in the most extreme, rare cases should something be banned because it is “too good.” This will be the most common type of ban requested by players, and almost all of their requests will be foolish. Banning a tactic simply because it is “the best” isn’t even warranted. That only reduces the game to all the “second best” tactics, which isn’t necessarily any better of a game than the original game. In fact, it’s often worse!

Banning MK is not the answer.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

Because its to stop all the other spam threads, and people are too lazy to unsubsrcibe to it?

Then the mods should delete all the "this character should be banned" topics because clearly this one isn't going anywhere and it was STARTED by one -_-

 

[Yuna]

Precisely.

Not that it matters yet (Mk banning would be a scrub move now), but none of which are anywhere near as limiting to the metagame as MK is. Except Marth, all at least have soft counters, and Marth doesn't hard counter anything that 90% of the cast doesn't already hard-counter. He just has lots of soft counters, so unless you're a ganondorf main, every match is winable against him.

Mk can't be counter-picked and hard counters people (again, the common feeling is a 60-40 match-up where mk has the advantage is a good match-up for the char, why? Because MK seems to hard-counter so many chars). Thus, he's a very different case then any of the ones you mentioned.

Snake, GW and Marth do hard counter certain characters, Snake moreso than the others. Yes, he has a few matchups that aren't in his favour but isn't he then restricting the metagame to playing Snake or one of his counters? The same arguments as for banning Meta (which is what I'm trying to get across here), only Meta has no disadvantageous matchup besides perhaps Snake.

But Snake would still be limiting the metagame. Same logic dictates Snake has to go.

 

[TheAceOfSmash]

Personally, I think people should keep a closer eye on Snake.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Why should I listen to a person who has a MK avatar?

Because I'm smarter than people who make stupid ****ing comments than that?


Yes, I found a picture of MK I thought looked cool, I totally main Mk only in Brawl, this hasn't nothing to do with the fact I grew up with the Kirby series, and totally makes me a scrub despite the fact I use Kirby, Ike, and now Falco more than MK.


And also, I brought up the point once, you've shown nothing to discredit it. He does not **** across the board with 8-2 and 7-3 matchups, he has even or 6-4 matchups, which is no where near as bad as it was in Melee.

@Natch: I shot down that once already, **** no, any character MK *****, is ***** by other characters. Give up, stop whining that your character has a piss poor match up like a scrub and learn to either work through it, or counter pick.

Now sit. Down.


(BTW, Yuna, I still love you.)

 

[Yuna]

(BTW, Yuna, I still love you.)

Yes, my Trappiness has that effect on a lot of straight guys.

 

[Sliq]

Hey guys what's going on in this thread?

Yes, my Trappiness has that effect on a lot of straight guys.

ಠ_ಠ

 

[i.E.]

Metaknight shouldn't be banned...he isn't unbeatable, and until he is (he won't ever be), he shouldn't and won't ever be banned. Period.

Also...melee sheik anyone? Doesn't this seem pretty similar?

 

[SothE700k]

Yes, my Trappiness has that effect on a lot of straight guys.

As for this thread as a whole:

 

[Grunt]

ಠ_ಠ

That's what you get for not being here from the beginning.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Yes, my Trappiness has that effect on a lot of straight guys.

The epic lulz right now is over 9000. This thread deserves a lock and a sticky at the same time.

 

[GofG]

Yes, my Trappiness has that effect on a lot of straight guys.

Can I have your children (in a laboratory setting so that you can maintain the appearance of trappiness)?

 

[MarKO X]

1) The BIG DIFFERENCE between ST Akuma and MK is that while MK makes a number of characters non-viable in tourneys, ST Akuam BROKE THE GAME!

2) People who argue with Yuna, see Yuna argue back, and then claim that Yuna's a self-righteous whateverthef**k you decide to call him officially lost that argument. You're better off admitting defeat or shutting up.

3) Melee Yoshi Island hurts MK badly, seriously. Green Greens kinda hurts MK, but you gotta be careful against him camping past the blocks.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Also...melee sheik anyone? Doesn't this seem pretty similar?

Anyone? I wasn't around the smashboards scene until recently, although I had the game since 2003.

3) Melee Yoshi Island hurts MK badly, seriously. Green Greens kinda hurts MK, but you gotta be careful against him camping past the blocks.

Yoshi's Island Melee=possible meta knight only counterpick?.?

 

[Falconv1.0]

1) The BIG DIFFERENCE between ST Akuma and MK is that while MK makes a number of characters non-viable in tourneys, ST Akuam BROKE THE GAME!

*Sigh*...


No, anyone that isn't viable is non viable for many, many different reasons besides MK. No one to my knowledge has ever listed a single character that cant be used solely due to the fact that MK exists.


I want people to stop spreading that bull**** this instant.

 

[Foxy]

MK is a really good character. Most games have a really good character. If MK wasn't in Brawl, or was worse, someone else would be the focus of all the attention.

Good characters are good. Deal with it. Someone has to be the best.

And jesus, better players beat bad MK's with worse chars easily. How does that even come close to bannable?

 

[TexanBull58]

hey this goes to gofg and eyestrain, yall are just some brawl nerds who think you know the game in and out, just cuz i dont get on a forum like you every other day doesnt mean you know anything, and yes ive played in local tournaments for cash and prizes etc. and yes im a bowser mainer and yes i believe bowser is teh best character, espeically the way i play, and i have played MK and i do well against him, you wanna prove it? then just PM me your FC and ill go with you 1on1 either of you or anybody, im not the best, there is no BEST everyone can beat someomone, and quit trying to push a forum noobie around just cuz i have other sthings to do but sit on a forum and blab about how im better than everyone and how im all knowing cuz ive been here longer than you, doesnt mean you can just shut off somebody, grow up and i sure hope you dont go out in the real world acting as arrogant as you think you are, cuz it must be hard for you son

 

[WITH]

If we ban MK then we will never know if we could have overcome his blatant unbalanced power. Right now everyone is focused on learning to counter him. If all of these efforts are not enough to overcome MK in the future, then he should be banned.

And for an opposite argument, people who say "if MK is banned then the next guy will just dominate" are wrong because every other character has at least one counter. MK doesn't as of yet. Then again, Fox really didn't have a true counter in melee.

 

[GofG]

hey this goes to gofg and eyestrain, yall are just some brawl nerds who think you know the game in and out, just cuz i dont get on a forum like you every other day doesnt mean you know anything, and yes ive played in local tournaments for cash and prizes etc. and yes im a bowser mainer and yes i believe bowser is teh best character, espeically the way i play, and i have played MK and i do well against him, you wanna prove it? then just PM me your FC and ill go with you 1on1 either of you or anybody, im not the best, there is no BEST everyone can beat someomone, and quit trying to push a forum noobie around just cuz i have other sthings to do but sit on a forum and blab about how im better than everyone and how im all knowing cuz ive been here longer than you, doesnt mean you can just shut off somebody, grow up and i sure hope you dont go out in the real world acting as arrogant as you think you are, cuz it must be hard for you son

9/10, would rage again.

Who wants me to beat him with Captain Falcon?

 

[Matador]

9/10, would rage again.

Who wants me to beat him with Captain Falcon?

Olimar with no Pikmin.

 

[phosphorus]

Like has been said numerous times, Meta Knight isn't the only problem, with the way Brawl is "balanced", I can imaging low tier tournaments become bigger, though

 

[SkylerOcon]

9/10, would rage again.

Who wants me to beat him with Captain Falcon?

Beat him with Mario using only the cape and FLUDD. Video it, and put it on YouTube.