The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

[Vulcan55]

Who wants me to beat him with Captain Falcon?

Yes.
Make sure to capture it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

*Sigh*...


No, anyone that isn't viable is non viable for many, many different reasons besides MK. No one to my knowledge has ever listed a single character that cant be used solely due to the fact that MK exists.


I want people to stop spreading that bull**** this instant.

MK match-ups

Rankings list

Notice a commonality? The best the characters hard-countered by MK do is C rank (and those are in most cases, not hard countered, IMO, but instead just soft-countered). The rest are considerably lower.

Sure, you can argue that they have other bad match-ups, but you can counter-pick against other hard counters, MK the best you can get is a neutral, and 60-40 is relatively speaking a good match-up.

Yeah, the match-up list isn't totally accurate, but, it gets the point across.

 

[da K.I.D.]

If we ban MK then we will never know if we could have overcome his blatant unbalanced power. Right now everyone is focused on learning to counter him. If all of these efforts are not enough to overcome MK in the future, then he should be banned.

And for an opposite argument, people who say "if MK is banned then the next guy will just dominate" are wrong because every other character has at least one counter. MK doesn't as of yet. Then again, Fox really didn't have a true counter in melee.

trufax

10 truefacts

 

[Yuna]

Can I have your children (in a laboratory setting so that you can maintain the appearance of trappiness)?

Yes, but let's make lots of hot monkey love anyway for the lulz as well.

1) The BIG DIFFERENCE between ST Akuma and MK is that while MK makes a number of characters non-viable in tourneys, ST Akuam BROKE THE GAME!

As far as I know, there is no one character which is rendered unviable solely because of their matchup against Meta-Knight. He's just there, another bad matchup for them.

hey this goes to gofg and eyestrain, yall are just some brawl nerds who think you know the game in and out, just cuz i dont get on a forum like you every other day doesnt mean you know anything, and yes ive played in local tournaments for cash and prizes etc.

Eyestrain has demonstrated an alarming lack of insight into the game and Competitive gaming.

and yes im a bowser mainer and yes i believe bowser is teh best character, espeically the way i play, and i have played MK and i do well against him....

"I believe"... "the way I play"... "I have"...

Yes, just because you are able to certain things against certain other players must mean that's the best way to play the game. You play Bowser the way you do, that's obviously the best way to play Bowser. The Meta-Knights you've faced are obviously playing him to his greatest potential.

Thus you beating him means Bowser has a favourable matchup against him. And you doing well at local tournaments as Bowser must make him the best character in teh game

And I also noticed how you never said that you won any of these tournaments. So you base your opinion on Bowser on what exactly? Cold hard facts required.

you wanna prove it? then just PM me your FC and ill go with you 1on1 either of you or anybody, im not the best, there is no BEST everyone can beat someomone

There quite a few people who could groundstomp you into the ground, me being one of them.

Never flaunt your prowess on Wi-Fi around. Wi-Fi means nothing. Nobody cares what you can do on Wi-Fi. You will not prove to use that Bowser is the best character in the game through Wi-Fi.

and quit trying to push a forum noobie around just cuz i have other sthings to do but sit on a forum and blab about how im better than everyone and how im all knowing cuz ive been here longer than you, doesnt mean you can just shut off somebody, grow up and i sure hope you dont go out in the real world acting as arrogant as you think you are, cuz it must be hard for you son

How about I just "attack" what you're saying? You're saying some pretty ridiculous things here without providing any evidence and then rounding it off with "I can prove it to you through Wi-Fi!".

 

[Vulcan55]

And for an opposite argument, people who say "if MK is banned then the next guy will just dominate" are wrong because every other character has at least one counter. MK doesn't as of yet.

Oh, you're right. Captain Falcon could be top tier if MK is banned. Hurr.
If Metaknight is banned, Then whoever is the next best will be the best, whoever was third best will be second best, etc, and regardless of counters. They're second best now, even with these counters against them. If anything, taking away a bad matchup would make them better, not worse.
Simple logic.

 

[Melomaniacal]

MK is a really good character. Most games have a really good character. If MK wasn't in Brawl, or was worse, someone else would be the focus of all the attention.

Good characters are good. Deal with it. Someone has to be the best.

And jesus, better players beat bad MK's with worse chars easily. How does that even come close to bannable?

The problem isn't that MK is the best character. The problem is that he's the best by a significant margin. The problem is that MK has no really bad match-ups. Every other character has bad match-ups, the only thing MK has is a few almost even match-ups.

But before you get me wrong, I don't think MK should be banned. I think he's the best character, and he's difficult to beat, but he's still beatable. So, you have to be significantly better than the MK to win, or the MK player has to be terrible, but it's not impossible. Here's what I think is going to happen (and I've posted this is a different thread):

MK will continue on the way he is, doing extremely well in tournaments. More and more people will slowly start switching to MK, and for a little while, the metagame will look bad. The metagame will sort of lean towards either playing as MK, or playing against MK. This will lead to more and more threads like the "anti-mach attack list," for the few people who are still not maining MK. So, eventually everyone will become masters at playing MK. They will know every technique and strategy to beat MK. So, using MK will become less and less popular, since everyone knows how to fight him. The metagame will even out, things will become fine. And don't say "oh, well then Snake will have the same problem." No he won't, he has counterpicks and bad match-ups.

Either that, or MK will be banned around the time that too many people are maining MK. One or the other.

 

[RedrappeR]

Look, maybe some of you don't understand. If you ban this character-- this early in the game, and for the reasons you guys are giving... the competitive scene for this game will die.

Yes it will. Don't argue. It's going to happen. Players aren't going to see a point in going to a Tournament to test their skill when you're excluding a character just because he has an advantage.

If you're really going to argue with me, and you haven't competitively played any other game than smash-- I suggest you look around.

Grow up. I'm serious. This is getting out of hand. The Gaming community isn't going to respect you if your solution to a character's tier placement(which it is, don't kid yourself. This is exactly what it is. No Bad Match ups, pretty much everything you describe isn't "broken"-- it's called "Top Tier". Every game, ever made has one of those ****ing characters. Tekken, Street Fighter, ****ing even World Heroes has one. They can all be beaten, by the same rules.) is to just outright ban him.

It's really just sad. Some of you ***** about how characters in this game are so Low Tier-- and can never be competitive. One of them is Sonic. If I can beat Meta Knights left and right with a character YOU deem as "Low Tier" and whose Biggest disadvantage(priority) is Metaknights greatest strength? Guys', there's a problem. I'm not joking here, I've fought Meta Knight, after Metaknight after Metaknight... and you know which character is hardest for me to fight? Wario. Not you're precious MK.

So do me a favor. Instead of replying to this post with some stupid *** Sardonic argument or telling me I'm too "elitist" or whatever the **** for you-- Go play the game with a character OTHER than Metaknight and practice against him. Or, if you want to be ********-- go ahead and ban him. Watch your game die, because it will. And afterwards, don't ***** to me that My character is "worthless"-- because I could go toe to toe with character you just BANNED because you thought he was unbeatable.

It's ****ing ridiculous.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Look, maybe some of you don't understand. If you ban this character-- this early in the game, and for the reasons you guys are giving... the competitive scene for this game will die.

Thats a massive exaggeration, it would just move on to the next best character. Snake.

Yes it will. Don't argue. It's going to happen. Players aren't going to see a point in going to a Tournament to test their skill when you're excluding a character just because he has an advantage.

Holy **** you coulda fooled me.
THE SACRED SEVEN IS A LIE!
Seriously people totally are not going to use other characters. I mean what are we to do without MK?

All we have are Marth,, Falco, DDD, Snake, G&W, Lucario, Olimar.
See where I am going with this?

It's really just sad. Some of you ***** about how characters in this game are so Low Tier-- and can never be competitive. One of them is Sonic. If I can beat Meta Knights left and right with a character YOU deem as "Low Tier" and whose Biggest disadvantage(priority) is Metaknights greatest strength? Guys', there's a problem. I'm not joking here, I've fought Meta Knight, after Metaknight after Metaknight... and you know which character is hardest for me to fight? Wario. Not you're precious MK.

MK is one of Sonic's hard counters.
wario and Luigi are the others.
So for you to beat other MK's with Sonic means they are quite bad.

You hardly have any knowledge of the competitive scene if you believe that the banning of one character will kill the competitive nature of the game.

They would move onto Snake simple as that, the loss of one character won't do much if anything tot he longevity of competitive brawl.

Banning MK at this point and time is ignorant because this game has not matured enough to such a point.
Even if the game were mature in order to MK to be bannable it would have to be proven that he reduces the game to, pick this character or lose.

Now of course this is a bit of an exaggeration, IMO he is more like Old Sagat. he does reduce the viability of many characters but he doesn't do it to the point that he warrants a banning.
old Sagat was not an Akuma and could still be beaten if you chose a character that did well against him.

 

[MarKO X]

Yeah, yeah, my bad on the viability issue with MK... but then again, why is it that people wanna ban MK? Because they believe that MK limits character viability and ****s the metagame up. Well... he doesn't. He manipulates it, but he's no Akuma.

 

[RedrappeR]

MK is one of Sonic's hard counter..
wario and Luigi are the others.
So for you to beat other MK's with Sonic means they are quite bad.

You hardly have any knowledge of the competitive scene if you believe that the banning of one character will kill the competitive nature of the game.

Maybe I'm beat him because-- I don't know, I'm good at the game?

As for your assumption that I don't know much about the competitive scene, I want you to think about this for a moment.

What people are describing in this thread, is a top tier character. A character-- which most people are going to use, because of his viability. Now imagine this... Suddenly, we take away that character. The competitive scene is going to see that as a cop out. There's no distinct reason why this character should be banned, yet he is.

And I never said it would just happen on a dime. I meant it gradually. When you Ban MK-- people are going to move to Snake-- but a good portion of the scene will quit. And it'll be on principle alone.

And judging by the way you're treating my post, I'm guessing you think I'm "new" to this whole thing because I play Sonic. Maybe I like the way the character plays? I also play Marth and Falco, and I've beaten tons of MK's with those characters as well. I think it's sad when I see a GOOD MK, beating Snake's-- Beating Marth's... and when I can beat the guy-- he's automatically a ****ty player because a supposedly "Low Tier" character beat him.

Tell you what? How about you rule K.O. as ****ty player at third strike? Because Yun entire play style is considered by some as Anti-shoto. And Daigo beat him! So shouldn't that make him a terrible player?

Tier list isn't everything... but I'm telling you, this is an argument of tier placement. They're describing a Top Tier character, and they want to Ban him because he's Top Tier. Honestly. He doesn't have anything that bends to rules towards him and gives him the unfair advantage in any fight. He doesn't have a one hit kill move, he takes as much damage as everyone else, and there are distinct counters to his moves.

I'll agree with the Old Sagat argument-- but I don't remember anyone wanting to outright BAN sagat when SFII was being held up to tournament standard.

EDIT: I take the Sonic part back. I checked your main. But you have another thing coming you think the whole "You don't know **** about the competitive scene" argument's going to hold water. I've been into fighting games far too long to be thrown off like that. I'm not some 13 year old on GameFAQ's who doesn't know a thing about this stuff.

Treat my argument with some respect next time. I would've treated yours the same.

 

[thumbswayup]

lmao anyone that loses to Sonic with MK just might be the worst Brawl player in history. And anyone that claims they can beat MKs with Sonic just might be the stupidest.

 

[RedrappeR]

lmao anyone that loses to Sonic with MK just might be the worst Brawl player in history. And anyone that claims they can beat MKs with Sonic just might be the stupidest.

There's no point in maining a character if you can't beat his counters.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uKiwnYTihp0
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uH-oipNzcak

There's two vids. Sonic wins both. And in one of em the MK is fairly decent, if not better than that.

And by the way, if you think any of those MK's are the worst "Brawl Player in history", maybe you need to learn how to not exaggerate, or go back to March and start whining about the roster again like a bunch of 13 year olds.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Maybe I'm beat him because-- I don't know, I'm good at the game?

This would mean the skill gap between you and the MK player was large.
Or that the MK was very unfamiliar with the matchup and then proceeded to make several errors afterwards.
Either way its not just because you're good that you won.

Considering the fact tht MK is faster, has better ground game. better priority. Better aerial game.
better recovery.
better kill moves.
Safer approach ability.
Is very hard to poke.

Did I mention attack speed and priority?

let us not forget the collective knowledge of good Sonic users.
3000, Helloa, Tenki, Darknes, Mr _X_

I am not denying the idea of you beating an MK, however, I am telling you that the reason you probably won.

What people are describing in this thread, is a top tier character. A character-- which most people are going to use, because of his viability. Now imagine this... Suddenly, we take away that character. The competitive scene is going to see that as a cop out. There's no distinct reason why this character should be banned, yet he is.

if Old Sagat was hard banned in the U.S.
Would this kill the competitive scene?
No it wouldn't.
Yeah it would be viewed as unjustified but it doesn't hinder the competitive scene eithe. you aren't breaking anything.

An actual competitive scene that died was SC3. Why?
It had many glitches and variable cancel. This ruined the competitive scene.
To date, in anycase where a character has been banned the competitive scene has not died because of it.

Akuma got banned people moved on to use Old Sagat.
If old Sagat was banned they would move on to the next best character.


A competitive scene that actually died is SC3.
With the many glitches as well as variable cancel that killed the competitive scene because the game became horrible.
You had many many factors.

It wasn't as if they banned one character and then the scene died.

To my knowledge, in every case where a ban may or may not have been questioned the competitive scene did not die period.
it takes many factors to kill a competitive scene not just 1 character.


Prove that a good portion of the scene will quit just because MK was banned.

Seriously if you look at how many people use MK to those who don't, you'll find that MK users are a minority in comparison to the actual total. So a good portion wouldn't quit. They'd just use snake and keep playing. That's how it has always been especially since that one character isn't the game.
This isn't street fighter where you only have two characters to use where banning a character would cause great damage to the scene and kill it.

And judging by the way you're treating my post, I'm guessing you think I'm "new" to this whole thing because I play Sonic.

Um stupid I am a sonic main to so no, it isnt because you use Sonic.
its probably because what you said was wrong.
Sonic beating MK does not happen if both players are of comparable skill.

I think it's sad when I see a GOOD MK, beating Snake's-- Beating Marth's... and when I can beat the guy-- he's automatically a ****ty player because a supposedly "Low Tier" character beat him.

okay benefit of the doubt then, he isn't bad he has no familiarity with the matchup and made several large errors.
Either way its not just because you and him were fighting at a level comparable to each other.

Simply put Snoic vs MK=MK wins period.

other stuff

When did we move onto principle from matchup?
Whatever in anycase the case of Yun vs Daigo.

No. Cause we already know that he was good but that daigo was better at that point in time.
Also what are the matchups between the two characters they were using?
I doubt it was 80:20 or 70:30

Tier list isn't everything... but I'm telling you, this is an argument of tier placement. They're describing a Top Tier character, and they want to Ban him because he's Top Tier.

That isn't why, the argument is how he reduces viability.
In GG Eddie is top tier along with (oh crap I forgot )some other person.
however he doesn't kill viability of the roster so much.
In melee you had Sheik, and she didn't reduce viability to a great degree either.

it isn't only liability but also the inherent weaknesses of the character.
in melee Fox is the best of them yet his weight hurts him terribly to the point that even if he hard counters a character, they can still win.
He could get death comboed by a good portion of the cast and gimped and edgehogged.

Viability isn't just one factor its the fact that when facing MK, there is nothing to exploit.

This does happen i many other top tier characters but thats why peple are crying foul so much.

Mind you I am indifferent so this argument isn't of my own.

Honestly. He doesn't have anything that bends to rules towards him and gives him the unfair advantage in any fight. He doesn't have a one hit kill move, he takes as much damage as everyone else, and there are distinct counters to his moves.

This is true, hence the old Sagat argument that was provided from earlier.

Took me a bit to reply I've been replacing songs in my music.

There's no point in maining a character if you can't beat his counters.

Its not that you can't but that the chances are very very small.
In other words, don't bother.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uKiwnYTihp0
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uH-oipNzcak

There's two vids. Sonic wins both. And in one of em the MK is fairly decent, if not better than that.

The first KM was decent and thats all.
DarkNes was much better .
Same with Sonic Lucasrio.
guarantee that they would not have won f they played M2K or any other very good MK user.

Especially when you take into account how the MK users kept palying so extremely unsafe in those matchups.

And by the way, if you think any of those MK's are the worst "Brawl Player in history", maybe you need to learn how to not exaggerate, or go back to March and start whining about the roster again like a bunch of 13 year olds.

They aren't the worst but they are not good either.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

lmao anyone that loses to Sonic with MK just might be the worst Brawl player in history. And anyone that claims they can beat MKs with Sonic just might be the stupidest.

You said it but I was thinking it.

 

[OverLade]

Originally Posted by thumbswayup View Post
lmao anyone that loses to Sonic with MK just might be the worst Brawl player in history. And anyone that claims they can beat MKs with Sonic just might be the stupidest.

No. I would've beleived this if DIH didn't beat Clouderz in an online match. It's online, but clouderz is probably one of the best MK's on this forum. I don't know what happened, but saying it's impossible is wrong.

But I honestly don't see how....

 

[ShadowLink84]

ts not impossible but its very very very improbable.
That and alot of MK's play rather unsafely.

 

[popsofctown]

We could take a poll to see how many people would quit Brawl on principle.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

garchomp and akuma > MK

Also....just to be even more random, I'd lawl if Garchomp was in next game , Lucario and MK would **** themselves, mostly lucario

I've changed my mind about MK, he's good but shouldn't be banned, a 6 month metagame isn't much to judge anything, really this topic should be closed and reopened in 2009.
*runs*

 

[ShadowLink84]

My scarfcune says hi to mence.

 

[RedrappeR]

your post

You didn't read the edit smart guy.

Akuma was banned because he had a CLEAR advantage bent towards him. He was a character that was DESIGNED to be overpowered over the other characters. When they started balancing him out, he was allowed in tournaments.

To my knowledge, I don't remember Old Sagat ever being banned for competitive play. And K.O. and Daigo were about equal skill level when they fought. SBO-- Daigo won... EVO... K.O. took it. They've been back and forth for a while now.

Look, if you really want to go into me beating an MK-- that whole argument... your welcome too, but it's besides the point. The point' is that you're banning a character for a stupid reason. I play competitively to see how I rank up against people playing at their best. If I know that I can't play the overall best character in this game in that playing field-- then there's no point.

And once again, you're dictating to me like I know nothing about fighting games.

Banning a character should be a LAST RESORT. He's NOT BROKEN. He has disadvantages like every other character in this game. He can be beaten. That's all there is to it.

And I'm sorry, but if your definition of killing viability is that most people just play MK-- well it's fighting game standard guys. He's the best character in the game-- so people play him. It's part of the game. Learn to play.

I'm still surprised that people are going "My main can never beat this char"... then why is he your main? It's about how you use your character-- that's the whole ****ING point! If your a competitive player it's your DUTY to try and master that character to the point where he CAN beat his counter. And it's not just skill level that's involved, it's knowledge of your character. It's not like I'm playing some fifth grader on his snack break here.

I don't like to brag, and I don't like to tell everyone who I can beat and who I can't. I mentioned that because if I play such a terrible character, and I can beat him-- there's no reason you guys should just give up and take the easy way out.

But I rest my case. You can argue with me all you want. But I'm telling you its' a stupid decision. And if they won't quit, I'll tell you that they won't take this game as seriously as they did before.

And you missed my other argument. I play Falco and Marth too. I've beat MK with them too. So you can get off the "Let's box him in on teh Sonic comment".

Whatever, do what you want.

 

[GofG]

RedrappeR, good post. Old Sagat is banned in Japan. >.<

 

[ShadowLink84]

You didn't read the edit smart guy.

I was making my reply before the edit hence why I didn't bother.

Akuma was banned because he had a CLEAR advantage bent towards him. He was a character that was DESIGNED to be overpowered over the other characters. When they started balancing him out, he was allowed in tournaments.

This makes my head hurt.
Stupid we are talking about SF2.
he didn't get balanced out in SF2 eriod.
Game breaking air fireball says hi.
you are talking about later games which are not pertinent to the discusson period.

To my knowledge, I don't remember Old Sagat ever being banned for competitive play. And K.O. and Daigo were about equal skill level when they fought. SBO-- Daigo won... EVO... K.O. took it. They've been back and forth for a while now.

he is soft banned in Japan.
Not hard banned.
in the U.S he is not banned. Let alone the fact I provided hypothetical.

Look, if you really want to go into me beating an MK-- that whole argument... your welcome too, but it's besides the point. The point' is that you're banning a character for a stupid reason. I play competitively to see how I rank up against people playing at their best. If I know that I can't play the overall best character in this game in that playing field-- then there's no point.

don'yt say you're because I already stated my position concerning things.
Let alone the fact that you brought it up hence I called you on it.
Don't like it don't mention it.

And once again, you're dictating to me like I know nothing about fighting games.

Because what you are saying is flawed.
Let alone you are assuming my argument for me.

I'm still surprised that people are going "My main can never beat this char"... then why is he your main? It's about how you use your character-- that's the whole ****ING point!

Again if you face someone of equal skill you will lose.
Thats th point of a counter character remember?
80% of the time my Sonic will lose to an MK of the same skill level.
Saying it all depends on your play doesn't mean crap cause that doesn't factor into account how your opponent is playing.


yeah I can win, but its generally foolish to do so when i can switch and have a much better chance of winning.

You mentioned sonic not Marth or Falco or anyone else. you brought it up I commented you blew it out of proportion. you are also assigning the argument when I have stated I am indifferent,

 

[RazeveX]

well...we could ban metaknight, but i don't know if we have the time to bash ourselves over the head with rocks long enough to become stupid enough to do so.

 

[darkNES386]

If people were smart, they would turn this thread into the... how-can-I-play-better-against-MK-with-my-character-thread.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Agreed with the NES

 

[RedrappeR]

This makes my head hurt.
Stupid we are talking about SF2.
he didn't get balanced out in SF2 eriod.
Game breaking air fireball says hi.
you are talking about later games which are not pertinent to the discusson period.

Okay then. I said Akuma was an example of a broken character, didn't I? So My point still stands. And my point was he wasn't DESIGNED to be overpowered in other games. "You're making my head hurt" Really? It's not that hard of a sentence to comprehend.

At least I don't break up my sentences like this.
SO that there's no clear paragraph...
Whenever I write...

he is soft banned in Japan.
Not hard banned.
in the U.S he is not banned. Let alone the fact I provided hypothetical.

My mistake.

don'yt say you're because I already stated my position concerning things.
Let alone the fact that you brought it up hence I called you on it.
Don't like it don't mention it.

The quote of mine you posted has almost no relevance to your commentary there. But if it's concerning the Sonic thing. Yeah, you called me on it, and I defended my position. There are tons upon tons of times where characters from lower tiers in fighting games, MUCH lower tiers have bested higher ones. It's not unheard of.

Because what you are saying is flawed.
Let alone you are assuming my argument for me.

How is what I'm saying flawed? It's an opinion. It's a valid one at that. I honestly believe doing so is going to screw up the game.

Again if you face someone of equal skill you will lose.
Thats th point of a counter character remember?
80% of the time my Sonic will lose to an MK of the same skill level.
Saying it all depends on your play doesn't mean crap cause that doesn't factor into account how your opponent is playing.

If a Bowser comes into a tournament and kicks the **** out of a MetaKnight... that doesn't mean the Bowser player is better at the game. It means he's better at using his character, and understanding play style. The Tier list is NOT everything. I'm not mister "Tier's don Exits" and I don't try to represent them. You tell me why Valle still continues to use Ryu in tournaments year after year even if he's considered Mid -- low tier.

yeah I can win, but its generally foolish to do so when i can switch and have a much better chance of winning.

You mentioned sonic not Marth or Falco or anyone else. you brought it up I commented you blew it out of proportion. you are also assigning the argument when I have stated I am indifferent,

Fine then. You're indifferent. But your opinion of fighting games is a contradictory one to mine-- and mine is JUST as valid as yours. So don't tell me my logic is flawed. I blew it out of proportion when you called me stupid.

 

[SkylerOcon]

If people were smart, they would turn this thread into the... how-can-I-play-better-against-MK-with-my-character-thread.

If people took all the time they take complaining about MK and turned it into learning how to beat MK, this thread wouldn't even exist.

 

[GofG]

If a Bowser comes into a tournament and kicks the **** out of a MetaKnight... that doesn't mean the Bowser player is better at the game. It means he's better at using his character, and understanding play style.

.....What?

 

[Yuna]

There's no point in maining a character if you can't beat his counters.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uKiwnYTihp0
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uH-oipNzcak

There's two vids. Sonic wins both. And in one of em the MK is fairly decent, if not better than that.

And by the way, if you think any of those MK's are the worst "Brawl Player in history", maybe you need to learn how to not exaggerate, or go back to March and start whining about the roster again like a bunch of 13 year olds.

I stopped watching the 1st video when the Meta-Knight initiated the match (while he and Sonic were on opposing sides of Battlefield) with Mach Tornado.

If a Bowser comes into a tournament and kicks the **** out of a MetaKnight... that doesn't mean the Bowser player is better at the game. It means he's better at using his character, and understanding play style.

Pray tell, what does the RedrappeR Dictionary define "better player" as?

 

[GofG]

I stopped watching the 1st video when the Meta-Knight initiated the match (while he and Sonic were on opposing sides of Battlefield) with Mach Tornado.


Pray tell, what does the RedrappeR Dictionary define "better player" as?

I stopped watching when the two vids were online.

Grr, yuna, stop saying what I've already said, except better so that people reply to you and not me. It makes me feel unimportant .

 

[RedrappeR]

Pray tell, what does the RedrappeR Dictionary define "better player" as?

I have a dictionary now? Wow, I'm moving up in the world.

I'm pretty much saying that if one player beats another-- it's because of his skill within the realm of using that character. Fine then, I concede, maybe you can call him a better player.

But if a low tier character beats a high tier character-- it's not because the high tier character sucks ***-- or has a LARGE gap of skill. It's because the Low tier character knows their character better, and can adapt to situations more easily. If a Toon link beats a snake-- then it's not because that Snake Player sucks. It's because that Toon Link knows what he's doing-- and is working around the pitfalls of the character to achieve something.

Better? And those videos were there simply to illustrate that it's not impossible for a Sonic to beat a Meta Knight... which everyone just quickly deemed as falsehood.

 

[Yuna]

I stopped watching when the two vids were online.

Grr, yuna, stop saying what I've already said, except better so that people reply to you and not me. It makes me feel unimportant .

I apologize. I'll stop being so full of win and truthiness.

I
But if a low tier character beats a high tier character-- it's not because the high tier character sucks ***-- or has a LARGE gap of skill. It's because the Low tier character knows their character better, and can adapt to situations more easily. If a Toon link beats a snake-- then it's not because that Snake Player sucks. It's because that Toon Link knows what he's doing-- and is working around the pitfalls of the character to achieve something.

I'm sorry, these things are not critical requirements for being a good player since when?

Better? And those videos were there simply to illustrate that it's not impossible for a Sonic to beat a Meta Knight... which everyone just quickly deemed as falsehood.

Of course it's possible... if there's a large enough skill gap (familiarity with the matchup is a part of skill).

 

[Grunt]

STUFF

What happened with the match with that Bowser player?

 

[GofG]

He didn't respond to my PM.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Okay then. I said Akuma was an example of a broken character, didn't I? So My point still stands. And my point was he wasn't DESIGNED to be overpowered in other games. "You're making my head hurt" Really? It's not that hard of a sentence to comprehend.

Considering the fact that the argument about Akuma is his SF2 variation, it is pointless to bring up other games where he is balanced.

its why you make my head hurt, you're bringing up something entirely irrelevant.

At least I don't break up my sentences like this.
SO that there's no clear paragraph...
Whenever I write...

Too.

Bad.
Deal.






With it.

The quote of mine you posted has almost no relevance to your commentary there. But if it's concerning the Sonic thing. Yeah, you called me on it, and I defended my position. There are tons upon tons of times where characters from lower tiers in fighting games, MUCH lower tiers have bested higher ones. It's not unheard of.

This matters how exactly?
yeah there are cases in which top tier characters are beaten by low tiers your point exactly? it doesn't change the fact that 80% of the time you will lose.
And usually if you win its due to large errors on the opponents part or their unfamiliarity or there was a large skill gap.

How is what I'm saying flawed? It's an opinion. It's a valid one at that. I honestly believe doing so is going to screw up the game.

its not valid cause there has not eben a case where the competitive csene was abandoned after the banning of ONE character.

If a Bowser comes into a tournament and kicks the **** out of a MetaKnight... that doesn't mean the Bowser player is better at the game. It means he's better at using his character, and understanding play style. The Tier list is NOT everything. I'm not mister "Tier's don Exits" and I don't try to represent them. You tell me why Valle still continues to use Ryu in tournaments year after year even if he's considered Mid -- low tier.

in guilty Gear Eddie is top tier yet if you look at the tournament results he looks far from it. The gaps between the characters in terms of tournament results is not as large as those in brawl.
This can be attributed to the greater balance, hence the tier don't have as much weight upon them nor the matchup chances.
Just because I am the best Sonic doesn't mean I will win against an MK who has 3/4ths the understanding of his character.

The matchup ratio takes into account all these things. This includes various playstyles and strategies that can be used. Theway the moves behave etc etc.

The fact of the matter remains though it is 80:20 and in brawl no matter how good you understand your character, you will still have an 80:20 matchup.
Simply because the inherent advantages of your opponents character exploits the weaknesses of your own.

Fine then. You're indifferent. But your opinion of fighting games is a contradictory one to mine-- and mine is JUST as valid as yours. So don't tell me my logic is flawed. I blew it out of proportion when you called me stupid.

fine fine.


Yes you can beat KM but more often than not you will lose.

 

[RedrappeR]

Look, I'm finished with this whole run around. Honestly.

I need to get out of the house, and at the rate people are responding, I'm not going to get to the response till about four pages down, and then really there's no point because everyone's moved on.

I think it's dumb that people are going to ban the character. That's that. Good arguing with all of you.

 

[Yuna]

I think it's dumb that people are going to ban the character. That's that. Good arguing with all of you.

We don't disagree on you there... just on many of the other things you've said in this thread.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yuna you should move to NY.

*nod nod*

 

[Yuna]

Yuna you should move to NY.

*nod nod*

And run for mayor.

 

[GofG]

No, move to NC. We're cooler. We have a mix of extremely ghetto gansta black smashers and overall-wearing hillbilly smashers. Tournies are amazing.