The Lucas General Discussion

[Luco]

Hey Luco, are you still an active Lucas user?

I haven't been to a tournament in a couple months and my skills are a tad rusty ever since we partially moved everything in the TV room to get one of our pianos out to a relative and thus the TV hasn't been plugged back in...

But i'm still around yea. What's up? ^^

 

[Micro]

I'm curious because I've been playing Lucas for a long time, but I've been wanting to learn how to play more competitively. That's why I joined smashboards. So I'm looking for anyone who can help me ^.^

 

[Luco]

Ah, not a problem! Well I did the very same thing, so I know what you mean.

Alright, so competitive Lucas, how would I start off...? To be honest it's hard to say to someone who's new to the scene exactly what to do - but my biggest advice is first to know what the terms are. If you want I can give you all that in a post.

The next thing is how competitive play works generally, things like approaching or playing conservatively, how your character is generally played in what matchups, general advanced techniques like pivot grabbing, etc.

Your next thing is learning all the little things that come together that can make a game. Things like port priority and how it affects gameplay (dang it snake!), advanced techniques (you'll either be really happy or really sad to know that Lucas has a heck ton of them ) such as zap jumping (i've killed with it before and so can you! It also saves Lucas' life. Zap jumping feels OP when you can pull it off consistently haha) and how minor differences in stages can really affect how characters work on those stages (A good example of which is Lucas'/Ness' worst counterpick, Yoshi's Island. Trying to recover on that stage often gets your PK thunder interrupted by the uprising ghost platforms or perhaps you'll bounce off the sides of the stage instead).

Usually by the time you've come to this point, you've improved your reflexes and gameplay to the point where you're going up. ^^

So first i'd start you off on general terms if you don't know them...? =D

 

[Micro]

Wow, I can already tell that you can teach me a lot haha thanks for your enthusiasm! Well I know some general terms. I spent the last week hearing about DI, dacus, pivot grabs, and some of Lucas' tricks like zap-jumping (which i'm trying to perfect my timing on) and magnet pulling. I definitely like all of the advanced techniques for Lucas, because it means there's a lot to learn. That keeps the character interesting. However, I'm taking all of this in at once, and it's a lot. Also I know nothing about matchups or ideal stages for Lucas, and nothing about proper spacing.

 

[Luco]

Ahh, thankyou! :-D

Alrighty then, that's totally fine. To be perfectly honest, by the time I was 5/6 days new to this board I knew absolutely none of that haha. So you're doing great. :D

Anywho, taking it all can be hard. My biggest suggestion is to play and test things out, whenever you can. It helps solidify the knowledge you get from here in your mind. So as soon as you hear of a new AT, test it out for yourself. If you have siblings who enjoy the game, try testing spacing out with them. That's what I do with my brother. ^^

As for match-ups, the best I can direct you to is here.

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-matchup-chart-v3-0.338390/

Read what you find relevant (like what the ratings mean), then my advice is to skip the table and go straight to individual character spreads. If you're a table reader then yeah, go for the table but tbh I find it easier when you scroll down in individual char spreads, find Lucas and observe all of his match-ups.

So as you probably know by now, Lucas is low mid tier (and it's taken him a lot of work to even get out of low tier ). Many people on the boards are optimistic about their characters. People like Jamwa and myself are no less so, we think Lucas deserves a spot in full mid tier (The Japanese tier list has him much higher than the US tier list). What happens though, is that his match-ups don't make him look very good. As you may-or-may-not know by now, Lucas and Ness both suffer from a fatal flaw: A small but noticeable 10 extra frames of grab release animation. Characters like Marth and Charizard can take advantage of this and... well... their match-ups aren't great. Quite a few of Lucas and Ness' MUs stem from this flaw, along with a few other things. My biggest advice when versing these characters is either playing really, REALLY safe or really, REALLY aggressive. My attempts at a middle ground have led me to infinites by Marth and where I live is almost certainly the land of the Marth players (Australia).

Anywho, you'll learn how to play individual MUs as you go. Spacing is one of the most fundamental aspects of Brawl. In essence, it's learning how to make your moves, not invincible, but incredibly difficult to punish. That is, using your move but not leaving yourself open to be hurt in the process. I'll give you an example.

You're Lucas and you're versing a Meta Knight (common scenario when you're a Lucas, believe me). You are on the higher percentage of the same stock and if Mk predicts right, your attempts at PK fire will get you punished. So you're going in for the mind game and you're going to try and F-air him (forward aerial).

Most casuals would use their forward aerial and leave it up to the MK to either shield or get hurt. All well and good. But Competitive players tend to have better reflexes at this game and will shield or even powershield (powershielding is when your shield comes up 1-3 frames before the attacks hits it and it acts as though you never shielded in terms of you get almost no shield drop frames) the move. This leaves Lucas in a bad position because he's now going straight into the grab range of Meta Knight.

The solution? Spacing and timing. Time the hit if you can so that you'll get no landing lag frames because you were in the middle of the F-air animation. Secondly, as soon as you hit F-air, move the control stick backwards, so that you're now moving away from MK. Now if you're anywhere near lucky and the MK didn't powershield, you're more or less safe. You've hit his shield (or him if you were even luckier but lets assume his shield for now) and retreated outside of his grab range. He's stuck inside lag in his shield for being hit by you (unless he powershielded, which makes things tricky) and you're now moving away from him. Good job!

So yeah, that's a convoluted example of spacing. The other fundamental thing about spacing is with some characters, spacing doesn't just involve after the action but the action itself. A character like Ness has a F-air with no sweetspot (most moves in the game have either a part of the move or a time when the move hits the strongest, does the most damage or creates the most knockback. That's called the sweetspot), thus the important thing is just hitting with it anywhere. Ness likes to have it so that his F-air is just touching the other person, increasing his ability to space.

So I hope I gave you an idea of practical spacing with the PSI kids. You can do it with most any move, so practice it whenever you can. ^^

As for stages, that's another thing you'll learn. Competitive play uses a selected stagelist and in every major one to date i'm reasonably sure Yoshi's Island (Brawl) is always included. It's a stage Lucas/Ness mains almost exclusively hate playing on. I think i'm one of the few that don't mind it that much haha.

Another iffy one for Lucas, depending on the character he's versing, is Lylat. Difficult to recover on even for pro Lucas/Ness mains and the tilting of the stage can make certain moves either awesome or horrid.

Anywayyy, that's it for me for now. Jamwa can fill you in on more if he likes. Feel free to ask any of the Lucas mains anything btw, it's just atm there's very few active Lucas mains around, so Jamwa and I usually end up answering the Lucas questions. With any luck J, FAE and Pink Fresh will pop in though - and FAE, PF and Mekos are the Lucas 'heroes' (the ones that do well in regionals, nationals, etc) and most of them, whilst not as active on the boards, are still doing work in tournaments so yeah, we're not entirely dead!

 

[Micro]

This is really in depth and useful information. I'll be referring to this for sure. And luckily I am at least at the point where I understood everything you were saying very clearly, and it all made sense. Thank you so much for your help! And yes, I've watched FAE, PF, and Mekos' matches on youtube and can see why they're considered the best. I'd love to keep playing and eventually reach their level of success! Thanks again, and I'll message you if I have any specific questions, if that's alright!

 

[Luco]

Thankyou, and no problem! :-)

 

[Jamwa]

This place isn't very active anymore, so I'm not sure how active J/FAE/Mekos are
Micro if you want to get into the competitive scene, you should search for meetups or monthlies/weeklies (depending on how active your scene is) that are in your area.
you learn the most from playing people with experience, advanced techniques are just for show, and are only really helpful once you've become comfortable with your character against experienced people

 

[Micro]

Alright! Well I just found a handful of competitive players on my campus, and we've been given permission to use the gaming center, so I figure that's a perfect way to practice and gain experience.

 

[Luco]

Oh how lucky! You'll do fine then. Anyone notable on the boards there? That'd be cool haha.

 

[Micro]

I can ask. If not, maybe they'll join! Liven up the place a bit.

 

[pidgezero_one]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Jamwa]

 

[prOAPC]

somebody tell Mekos to use dtilt vs Olimar

 

[Jamwa]

somebody tell Mekos to use dtilt vs Olimar

Mekos is back?

 

[Luco]

What happened?? @.@

And Mekos left? :o

 

[Tikao]

Mekos won mid tiers at Whobo 5

 

[Luco]

OH MY GOODNESS I MUST SEE!!!

 

[Mekos]

somebody tell Mekos to use dtilt vs Olimar

ffff I forgot about that. The matchup rust is real lol. Smh that would have ffd him up lol

Thanks

 

[Micro]

Does anyone know if there will be footage up soon? ^.^

 

[Luco]

I dunno but i'm checking whenever I can. I've gotta see this awesomeness!

 

[Mekos]

It will be up on youtube. Definitely by the weekend.

 

[Mekos]

Chibo just told me they will be live tonight.

 

[Jamwa]

Ah man I learn so much from watching you play doubles

Good to see it again

 

[Mekos]

Thanks man.

They up
Just youtube Mekos Whobo 5
Here is one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D97CuCI6Io

 

[Jamwa]

Thanks man.

They up
Just youtube Mekos Whobo 5
Here is one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D97CuCI6Io

Oh god that up-b shield poke kill by m2k was hilarious

Hey I found out this technique that lets lucas tether to the ledge safely and gain invincibility frames
I made a really bad video about it
It's really helpful for avoiding character's on-stage moves that can hit lucas when he normally pulls himself up
it also gives you more invincibility frames (i was told tethering to the ledge gets rid of the invincibility frames after you let go or something like that)

I think people can grab the ledge before lucas does though depending on port priority and closeness to the ledge, so it's only really good if the opponent is onstage.

 

[Luco]

Hey I found out this technique that lets lucas tether to the ledge safely and gain invincibility frames
I made a really bad video about it
It's really helpful for avoiding character's on-stage moves that can hit lucas when he normally pulls himself up
it also gives you more invincibility frames (i was told tethering to the ledge gets rid of the invincibility frames after you let go or something like that)

I think people can grab the ledge before lucas does though depending on port priority and closeness to the ledge, so it's only really good if the opponent is onstage.

I love how you get really shy about your videos when you're trying to present them to top players. :-D

It's ok I do it all the time. <3

 

[Jamwa]

I love how you get really shy about your videos when you're trying to present them to top players. :-D

It's ok I do it all the time. <3

I've said it's really bad to everyone
because it is

 

[Xyro77]

If Mekos (lucas) won mid tier 1vs1 at WHOBO 5 and i beat Mekos (lucas) in Low tier teams with SAMUS at WHOBO 5.

Samus>Lucas
Xyro (samus) > Mekos (lucas)
Xyro wins Mid tier 1vs1

 

[Mekos]

Oh god that up-b shield poke kill by m2k was hilarious

Hey I found out this technique that lets lucas tether to the ledge safely and gain invincibility frames
I made a really bad video about it
It's really helpful for avoiding character's on-stage moves that can hit lucas when he normally pulls himself up
it also gives you more invincibility frames (i was told tethering to the ledge gets rid of the invincibility frames after you let go or something like that)

I think people can grab the ledge before lucas does though depending on port priority and closeness to the ledge, so it's only really good if the opponent is onstage.

Imma check this out dude. Cool stuff.

@Xyro - Lmbo!! Man could be true if I didn't have m2k killing me twice every game lolololol. Samus does wreck lucas tho.
But xyro > Mekos? I dunno. We shall mm at apex if I go

 

[PKBeam]

These Lucas threads are a lot more active compared to April or May.

 

[Luco]

Hue hue :-)

Yea it's good. ^_^

 

[PKBeam]

Are you on Brawl now? I would love a good match.

 

[Luco]

Are you on Brawl now? I would love a good match.

Ah golly, my bro is on DOTA 2 so I can't play exactly now but a little later I may be able to. ^_^

Haven't played in a while though, i'm terribly rusty.

 

[PKBeam]

Me too!
It might be the fact that I'm so used to killing dem scrubs w/ spam Usmash.
And have you seen this guy?

 

[PKBeam]

Well let me know if you're free tonight, then I can come on.

 

[Luco]

I have seen Hyutter, yep!

I'll try to let ya know for tonight. If possible i'm hoping Shaya or Ted will host something soon and i'll try to make it to that. :-D

 

[Luco]

Oki man so I have the wii set up. With any luck i'll get in some games over the weekend. ^_^

 

[Chuee]

So I decided to get on this site after forever.

Hi Lucases.

 

[PKBeam]

Hi... I would ask for 1v1 but you're like American or something.