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The Living Legend - Solid Snake in Brawl+

_Yes!_

_Yes!_

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Falco400 said:
I have some Snake matches up, wouldn't mind some critique from Yes! even though I only play Snake in friendlies and for the lulz. ;p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gn40GTMiKU <---- Ditto 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVoHb7EtUDo <----- Ditto 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHf3O087-F0 <--- Snake vs. CF
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Well, if you were OWNIN, then your snake needs work :-/ You seem to just throw moves out there and hope they hit. See what combos better and keep working on Snake.

GHNeko said:
What do you think Snake's metagame should be focused on now?
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Well we all know Snake is rapesauce, but we need to figure out what his bad match ups are. I really don't know if this was already discussed because I didn't read the thread and I don't have a wii to find out for myself lol.

The general idea with Snake is to have as many hitboxes on the stage as possible (grenades, mine, c4, upsmashes) to supplement to Snake's amazing aerials.

IMO Snake's ftilt is even more broken in brawl+ because of shield stun. **** their shields, people.

Just learn what combos and abuse them.
 
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Hostility

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GHNeko said:
What do you think Snake's metagame should be focused on now?
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How to zone properly in all the matchups. Ftilt isn't as safe as some of you guys are saying. Even if you tip it perfectly on some character's shield they can still punish. For example, if you do an Ftilt on wolf's shield even at max distance, wolf can Fsmash guarenteed. So figuring out what safe options you have vs the character you are playing is important. Also, we need to figure out what you can do off of upthrow and uptilt at low percents to the other characters because those are the best of snake's combo starters.
 
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RyuReiatsu

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Hostility said:
How to zone properly in all the matchups. Ftilt isn't as safe as some of you guys are saying. Even if you tip it perfectly on some character's shield they can still punish. For example, if you do an Ftilt on wolf's shield even at max distance, wolf can Fsmash guarenteed. So figuring out what safe options you have vs the character you are playing is important. Also, we need to figure out what you can do off of upthrow and uptilt at low percents to the other characters because those are the best of snake's combo starters.
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Then again, many characters have big trouble punishing him. You've mentioned wolf... He can almost spam his smashes and stuffs. And there's that big empty space that's in Ftilt's hitbox, makes its reach much farther.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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Hostility said:
How to zone properly in all the matchups. Ftilt isn't as safe as some of you guys are saying. Even if you tip it perfectly on some character's shield they can still punish. For example, if you do an Ftilt on wolf's shield even at max distance, wolf can Fsmash guarenteed. So figuring out what safe options you have vs the character you are playing is important. Also, we need to figure out what you can do off of upthrow and uptilt at low percents to the other characters because those are the best of snake's combo starters.
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The shield push on ftilt is so far that only characters with long range can punish. Let's imagine what would happen if such a thing would happen.

1) Snake ftilts shield
2) opponent tries to punish, snake can either:

jab, which might out-prioritize
ftilt, which will probably out-prioritize
pull out a nade and blow up together
take at MOST 20 damage. no long range attack can combo that well

The only one of these options that we'd need to go into more detail in would be the last one. Even this is situational, since smart Snakes wouldn't just blindly ftilt a shield if they know they might be punished.
 
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Hostility

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I know it is safe on a lot of character's shield, I certainly use it a lot, I'm just saying, it's not safe against everyone as was implied earlier, and against some fast characters you have to worry about the spacing and stuff.
 
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Hostility

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I wouldn't say broken, he's a good zoning character and he has a lot of ways to keep people out, but once another character gets inside your tilt range, or you get knocked in the air, or you get hit offstage, you're in a horrible position. He's certainly a solid character, but there are certainly better characters out there.
 
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Hostility said:
I wouldn't say broken, he's a good zoning character and he has a lot of ways to keep people out, but once another character gets inside your tilt range, or you get knocked in the air, or you get hit offstage, you're in a horrible position. He's certainly a solid character, but there are certainly better characters out there.
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People misinterpret the definition of broken. Broken doesn't necessarily mean "omgwtf2goodtoptierlolz" it means that the effects of a characters moves don't reflect the amount of effort put in.

In vBrawl, the simplest setup can do about 60% on your opponents. Picture battlefield, dsmash under a platform, down b on the platform.

Fthrow onto dsmash onto downb to up air -> 10+ 20 + 18 + 14.

In brawl+, uthrow combos to 3 utilts and a uair or nair. 10 + 13 + 13 + 13 + 14 or 29.

All of the traits you listed about Brawl+ Snake are pretty much vBrawl Snake anyway. He's still as broken, if not even more broken in Brawl+ because of his simple yet highly damaging combos.
 
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Can't...no one in NJ or where I live at least likes Brawl+. I won't be able to have new stuff up until the fall :(
 
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RyuReiatsu

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Cowtipper9487 said:
People misinterpret the definition of broken. Broken doesn't necessarily mean "omgwtf2goodtoptierlolz" it means that the effects of a characters moves don't reflect the amount of effort put in.

In vBrawl, the simplest setup can do about 60% on your opponents. Picture battlefield, dsmash under a platform, down b on the platform.

Fthrow onto dsmash onto downb to up air -> 10+ 20 + 18 + 14.

In brawl+, uthrow combos to 3 utilts and a uair or nair. 10 + 13 + 13 + 13 + 14 or 29.

All of the traits you listed about Brawl+ Snake are pretty much vBrawl Snake anyway. He's still as broken, if not even more broken in Brawl+ because of his simple yet highly damaging combos.
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That's totally my definition of broken! You've taken the words right out of my mouth :laugh:.
 
KarateF22

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Lucario thread has started match up discussion on Snake, be sure to put your 2 cents in so we may get an accurate match-up
 
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Hostility

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Cowtipper9487 said:
People misinterpret the definition of broken. Broken doesn't necessarily mean "omgwtf2goodtoptierlolz" it means that the effects of a characters moves don't reflect the amount of effort put in.

In vBrawl, the simplest setup can do about 60% on your opponents. Picture battlefield, dsmash under a platform, down b on the platform.

Fthrow onto dsmash onto downb to up air -> 10+ 20 + 18 + 14.

In brawl+, uthrow combos to 3 utilts and a uair or nair. 10 + 13 + 13 + 13 + 14 or 29.

All of the traits you listed about Brawl+ Snake are pretty much vBrawl Snake anyway. He's still as broken, if not even more broken in Brawl+ because of his simple yet highly damaging combos.
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Simple doesn't have to mean broken. Ganon in melee was a simple character who could kill with a 4 move combo, whereas the best character in the game, fox, had to do much more to get the kill and took more execution. So by your standard, ganon is more broken than fox in melee.

And just because snake can combo, that doesn't mean he's godly, and there is no way he's better than he was in regular brawl. Almost everyone can combo, that doesn't really set him apart. And the combos you listed are kinda unrealistic. I could see the first one working but getting everything setup perfectly and then getting the grab isn't easy. If you get throw to dsmash mine, to C4, to up air than that is a combo well deserved. And the problem with your second combo is that Snake can't do upthrow to three uptilts to more than like 3 characters in the cast, if that.

You also completely ignore the fact that snake is probably the most useless character in the air, period. If you're playing someone good and they hit you into the air, you are gonna eat a lot of damage before you land because snake's aeriels are terrible at getting people off him. Likewise if you get offstage, you're most likely dead unless you recover super high, but then you're still in a terrible position.

Snake isn't as easy as you're trying to make him out to be.
 
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Hostility said:
Simple doesn't have to mean broken. Ganon in melee was a simple character who could kill with a 4 move combo, whereas the best character in the game, fox, had to do much more to get the kill and took more execution. So by your standard, ganon is more broken than fox in melee.
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Fox wasn't broken in melee, he was god-like in melee, and took skill to use. He did get combo'd and gimped by most of the cast, just like ganon. Ganon does have **** combos, but he had so many bad matchups that it's not even funny. Ganon is easier to use, but as previously mentioned, there was barely any reward to using him, unlike Snake, who has few bad matchups, highly damaging combos, and requires little skill to use.

And just because snake can combo, that doesn't mean he's godly, and there is no way he's better than he was in regular brawl. Almost everyone can combo, that doesn't really set him apart. And the combos you listed are kinda unrealistic. I could see the first one working but getting everything setup perfectly and then getting the grab isn't easy. If you get throw to dsmash mine, to C4, to up air than that is a combo well deserved. And the problem with your second combo is that Snake can't do upthrow to three uptilts to more than like 3 characters in the cast, if that.
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I'm only debating the bolded.

lol I never said godly. I said simple and broken. Read before you argue with me please. He's better in brawl+ because he has even more simple yet highly rewarding combos.

Getting the grab is easy. You don't even have to grab, you can ftilt, or AAA.

I was just listing an example of one of Snake's many simple combos.

You also completely ignore the fact that snake is probably the most useless character in the air, period. If you're playing someone good and they hit you into the air, you are gonna eat a lot of damage before you land because snake's aeriels are terrible at getting people off him. Likewise if you get offstage, you're most likely dead unless you recover super high, but then you're still in a terrible position.

Snake isn't as easy as you're trying to make him out to be.
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This is Snake's only downfall. Being offstage seriously sucks. Him being in the air, though, is situational. If he's being sent into the air, then yes, he's at a serious disadvantage. If he's being the aerial aggressor however, he is amazing in the air. Doing 29% in one move is pretty broken if you ask me lol.

Other than that, the gameplan is the same vs every character. Throw grenades, make use of ftilt, and combo off of utilt/uthrow.

Snake is as easy as I make him out to be.

Keep in mind that I used Snake in brawl and brawl+. I'm in no means trying to bash him. He's one of my favorite characters, but I'm not gonna deny that he's a broken character xD
 
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Cowtipper9487 said:
Fox wasn't broken in melee, he was god-like in melee, and took skill to use. He did get combo'd and gimped by most of the cast, just like ganon. Ganon does have **** combos, but he had so many bad matchups that it's not even funny. Ganon is easier to use, but as previously mentioned, there was barely any reward to using him, unlike Snake, who has few bad matchups, highly damaging combos, and requires little skill to use.



I'm only debating the bolded.

lol I never said godly. I said simple and broken. Read before you argue with me please. He's better in brawl+ because he has even more simple yet highly rewarding combos.

Getting the grab is easy. You don't even have to grab, you can ftilt, or AAA.

I was just listing an example of one of Snake's many simple combos.



This is Snake's only downfall. Being offstage seriously sucks. Him being in the air, though, is situational. If he's being sent into the air, then yes, he's at a serious disadvantage. If he's being the aerial aggressor however, he is amazing in the air. Doing 29% in one move is pretty broken if you ask me lol.

Other than that, the gameplan is the same vs every character. Throw grenades, make use of ftilt, and combo off of utilt/uthrow.

Snake is as easy as I make him out to be.

Keep in mind that I used Snake in brawl and brawl+. I'm in no means trying to bash him. He's one of my favorite characters, but I'm not gonna deny that he's a broken character xD
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So I just got back home and wanted to see my friend Hostility's response but have yet to see one. **** I'm good...
 
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lol I don't see what's to argue, anyway. We should focus on making Snake moar amazing :)

Snake vs Olimar...go!

IMO Snake can beat olimar if he outcamps him. If olimar's getup roll still barely goes anywhere then Snake can dthrow tech chase forever :)
 
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He was clearly designed to be one of the Better characters in the game.

In olimar news, I think Oli has a slight advantage here. Almost all of Olimar's matchup advantages from VBrawl transfer over here. Combine that with hitstun and wow.
 
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lol I kinda thought Snake beat Olimar in vBrawl too >.<

Snake can camp olimar vertically (dropping nades and c4's) so battlefield is your best bet vs olimars...
 
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If they up air you, shield and they get blown up. They won't do it if there's nades around. If they upb you're shield that's a free hit.

(btw I'm assuming we're discussing the matchup on battlefield, yoshi's, lylat aka platform stages)
 
yummynbeefy

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snake has an f-tilt lock if not died correctecly by the opponent ive managed to lock them to 70 from 0 u-tilt isnt a great killer now but it combos like crazy

hes a really fun character in brawl+ imo
 
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you guys are arguing that snake is easy now? he can eat a 7 biair combo off of TL, but if your smart its quite hard to set up. snake is hard for us to kill other than spiking your recovery
 
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