The Living Legend - Solid Snake in Brawl+

[GHNeko]

ITT: GoG sheds a new leaf.

 

[El Raspa]

I have tested a little more of Snake with the new changes, the Fair is very difficult to capitalize it into a combo or for gimping

Maybe for the next build (few months in the future) you should consider that his UpB go higher or have more SuperArmor frames or stronger

I don't see a point on Air Dodge an attack earlier on the Up B If you are going to fall and lost a stock. The same happends If you atack with a Uair or Bair, If it connects you still are going to die

 

[goodoldganon]

After completely changing up my play style and readjusting to all the changes I will comfortably say that Snake is easily top 3 in this release and a strong contender for the best character in the game. It took a while to readjust my play style but honestly I should have been playing this way a LONG time ago. Once mastered Snake's tools take him to a new level of *** kicking only a few characters could keep up with. I'd argue Snake has MAYBE 2-3 bad matchups, a few evens, and then all advantages for there on out.

I'll go into details if people want...

 

[GHNeko]

inb4CapeGloating

 

[goodoldganon]

inb4CapeGloating

I'd pay for half of his plane ticket to come punch me in the face, cause frankly I deserve it.

 

[Plum]

After completely changing up my play style and readjusting to all the changes I will comfortably say that Snake is easily top 3 in this release and a strong contender for the best character in the game. It took a while to readjust my play style but honestly I should have been playing this way a LONG time ago. Once mastered Snake's tools take him to a new level of *** kicking only a few characters could keep up with. I'd argue Snake has MAYBE 2-3 bad matchups, a few evens, and then all advantages for there on out.

I'll go into details if people want...

Everybody, start learning your PrOlimar, because if what this man says is true you gonna need yo'self a counterpick.

 

[JCaesar]

ROB still owns Snake's ***, so it's all good by me

 

[WheelOfFish]

I think the Donkey Kong - Snake match-up is still in DK's favor. Maybe more so now.

 

[GuruKid]

Ivysaur still owns Snake's ***, so it's all good by me

 

[Mattnumbers]

Lucas goes about even against snake in my experience so I'm not too upset.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Meaning you can airdodge or attack out of it (or C4 recovery) to defend yourself a lot sooner whereas before you had some hefty dedication lag where you could not change to another action.

Meaning that now you have a better chance for avoiding wtf spikes like Ike/Marth/other guys that spike you through your Cypher ;p.

Hell you could probably even use it for a little on stage mobility (just a little).

 

[Alphatron]

Zelda still gets ***** by Snake, so FFFFFFF-

Also, my respect for GoG has increased. Proven worthy main of the King of Evil.

 

[goodoldganon]

I have never fought a good Ivysaur or ROB. I can see exactly how Rob would give Snake trouble (though I think the F-air change makes Snake a lot harder to gimp for ROB, pushing the matchup closer to even) but I'm unsure on Ivysaur. Exactly what works for Ivysaur against Snake? When I was playing the other good Snake my best characters to fight him were the Link's and Samus.

 

[El Raspa]

After completely changing up my play style and readjusting to all the changes I will comfortably say that Snake is easily top 3 in this release and a strong contender for the best character in the game. It took a while to readjust my play style but honestly I should have been playing this way a LONG time ago. Once mastered Snake's tools take him to a new level of *** kicking only a few characters could keep up with. I'd argue Snake has MAYBE 2-3 bad matchups, a few evens, and then all advantages for there on out.

I'll go into details if people want...

Some videos would be nice

 

[Mattnumbers]

Meaning that now you have a better chance for avoiding wtf spikes like Ike/Marth/other guys that spike you through your Cypher ;p.

Hell you could probably even use it for a little on stage mobility (just a little).

Way to go chain breaker.


By the way I actually would still care if a character was OP even if my main had a good/even matchup with them. I just like chains

 

[goodoldganon]

Some videos would be nice

My recording device got botched in the move and I'm waiting for my roommate to reimburse me. In my haste to continue playing and having fast matches I didn't save very many. Just some really funny moments.

 

[JCaesar]

I have never fought a good Ivysaur or ROB. I can see exactly how Rob would give Snake trouble (though I think the F-air change makes Snake a lot harder to gimp for ROB, pushing the matchup closer to even) but I'm unsure on Ivysaur. Exactly what works for Ivysaur against Snake? When I was playing the other good Snake my best characters to fight him were the Link's and Samus.

I'm guessing it's for the same reason why ZSS does well against Snake. Her comfort zone is just outside of Snake's tilt and grenade-protection range, so Snake can't just sit in his shield and camp like he can in most matchups. I'm sure there's more to it than that but that's probably part of it.

 

[El Raspa]

The Jump/UpB on IASA frames on Fair, cannot be buffered right?

 

[goodoldganon]

I'm pretty sure it can. I don't have a problem doing it at the exact right moment, though I play Snake and Dorf with an 8 frame buffer. The biggest reason F-air IASA is awesome is that it resets Snake's downward momentum. Due to higher gravity if Snake had been falling for a second it took him a while longer to rise up. He doesn't have that problem with F-air IASA.

 

[The Cape]

Glad to see the new Snake changes are well received

He feels like a much more solid character to me now personally, but the U tilt change is a bit glitchy. It moved the hitbox into Snake and it now pushes out behind him. Its a bit lulzy

 

[GuruKid]

I'm guessing it's for the same reason why ZSS does well against Snake. Her comfort zone is just outside of Snake's tilt and grenade-protection range, so Snake can't just sit in his shield and camp like he can in most matchups. I'm sure there's more to it than that but that's probably part of it.

This, and a bit more (going off of the previous codeset on this)

snake's camping doesn't work all that well due to razor leaf, and ivysaur's jabs, dtilt, and ftilt give snake's ground game some trouble. oh and BULLET SEED that **** at every opportunity you get, snake is one of the heaviest characters in the game.

Snake can't camp as hard, because Ivy can just camp harder with razor leaf and aerials.

Snake's ground game is troubled by Ivy's better ground game (ftilt and dtilt) and bair.

Snake in the air... bair nair then uair uair uair fodder for Ivy.

Oh, and Bullet Seed (though not as good as good as its vbrawl version) still works wonders on heavies.

Still gotta mess with the current codeset, but the changes probably wouldn't change much.

 

[El Raspa]

hello, have someone the MG1 Snake texture with a gray vest? I have looked at all the texture database and I havent find it for download

 

[GHNeko]

Are we gonna make usmash non-random or wut.

 

[GameSystem]

Won't that make it a super anti-air/god edge guard?

 

[GHNeko]

No because it would become more predicable imo and there would still be plenty of error on Snake's part, and the motar shot still gets out-prioritized by like...every ****ing sex kick and then some. Lol.

 

[_Yes!_]

So yeah...I heard we shouldn't make unnecessary changes? Cool.

 

[GHNeko]

It was a thought. If peach's can get un-randomized fsmash for strategic value, so can Snake for Usmash.

 

[GameSystem]

By that logic, G&W should get his hammers to go 1-9 in order and luigi's misfire should always happen on the 8th use and gordos should always come out after 5 waddle dees and 5 doo etc.

 

[GHNeko]

And we tried doing that before when we tried to unrandomize the whole game and we got a SUPER LOAD OF **** FOR IT IN THE FORM OF A ****STORM IN A THREAD THAT WAS LOCKED A LONG TIME AGO. IN WHICH PEACH MAINS WHERE THE STRONGEST ****STORMERS BECAUSE WE WERE GONNA REMOVE RANDOM ITEM PULLS AND RANDOM TURNIPS.


e___e

But hey. Peach got it so wtf @ character bias. And the Peach mains have NO Issues with that.

Why does Peach get it but not other characters.

Dumb.

But seriously, unrandomizing Snake's fsmash is a small strategic buff. Unrandomizing GaW's Judgement, Luigi's Misfire, D3's gordo toss would be more of a buff than we'd want to give to those characters.

 

[goodoldganon]

Gordos, Misfire, and a 9 are far too potent of attacks to have knowledge of when you are guaranteed you'd have them. It would require a KB nerf and as discussed people threw a fit when we removed random ****. Snake's U-smash is fine as is. The random factor is helpful. Toss one up and the opponent is not sure where it will land. Snake's edge guard game is already good enough and having an un random U-smash would just buff his edge game. I never count on the random angles for ledge guards, it's just to throw off my opponents positioning since they don't know where it will land.

 

[GHNeko]

Having an un-random Usmash would have it's pros and cons, just as random usmash would have its pros and cons as well.

It's a buff to his edgegame, sure, but it's so small that it shouldn't matter. Right?

 

[Mattnumbers]

Anyone else feel that his tilts didn't get nerfed enough, especially considering the buffs he received?
My friend who mains snake in both Brawl and Brawl+ (second best in our state too) and I barely notice a difference, I had to ask him if he noticed the range decrease for him to realize that they were nerfed. Not to mention that now Utilt hits behind snake making it even more ridiculous. than it already was.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Anyone else feel that his tilts didn't get nerfed enough, especially considering the buffs he received?
My friend who mains snake in both Brawl and Brawl+ (second best in our state too) and I barely notice a difference, I had to ask him if he noticed the range decrease for him to realize that they were nerfed. Not to mention that now Utilt hits behind snake making it even more ridiculous. than it already was.

That's what happens when you shift hitboxes inwards and don't do anything about their size. I do agree with these sentiments, and on the whole I believe Snake is still top tier material especially since he's harder than ever to KO, KOs low himself, and has great range, combos, and camping that's effective on lots of characters.

 

[GHNeko]

And he can combo now and has his Brawl level recovery back. :o

But he's still mad easy to combo and is more succeptable to CGs apparently (Ness, Mario, Marth, Wolf to name a few)

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Being easy to combo tends not to be a huge deal when you can still survive and recover as well as he does, and can dish that right back. He's not held back by the badness that Bowser's stuck with.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

What do you suggest then? A 10% decrease in size on the utilt hitbox? Or to put it back at the original x and y areas with a 20% size decrease?

You do pose a good point. The spacies in Melee were kinda easy to combo and were open to CGs that normal characters weren't.