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Legend of Zelda The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - NO SPOILERS, USE THE SPOILER THREAD PLEASE
- Thread starter XACE-K
- Start date
I'm not assuming that it's going to be the best yet or anything like that, but some of the developer quotes that I've read do seem to indicate that they understand what went wrong with wind waker and twilight princess and that this should set a lot of the bad trends in the series straight. I hope at least
as for motion controls...fingers crossed on that. I tend to dislike them going crazy with motion controls and this game seems to be MASSIVELY based on motion, but, most of those games I've played and disliked because of motion controls didn't use the wii motion plus and had poorly responsive controls, I don't actually know what to expect from this
I'm a little skeptical of how they're making the bow function though, I've heard it's more or less based on WSR and that it was pretty slow by comparison to TP where you just point and click
as for motion controls...fingers crossed on that. I tend to dislike them going crazy with motion controls and this game seems to be MASSIVELY based on motion, but, most of those games I've played and disliked because of motion controls didn't use the wii motion plus and had poorly responsive controls, I don't actually know what to expect from this
I'm a little skeptical of how they're making the bow function though, I've heard it's more or less based on WSR and that it was pretty slow by comparison to TP where you just point and click
Yeah...the "1:1" thing is the main thing. If the control style were like the one featured in Twilight Princess, then there wouldn't be a problem. I actually played TP with my left hand holding the Wiimote, despite the game's "catering" to right-handed players, and I didn't encounter a problem in gameplay at all (I didn't even realize the Wii version was "flipped" to right-hand orientation until later on). It helps that one pays attention to his/her surroundings, instead of focusing one's eyes on Link's hands. IMO, you hardly notice the "flip"; blurred sword strokes and downed enemies pretty much take command of the scene, and some fights get a bit frenzied for you to even pay attention. Basically, as long as you swing the Remote/sword with either hand, you'll be good to go in swordfights.
However, 1:1 is a bit different, since Link's movements are supposed to more closely replicate the player's actual movements. I'll wait until I play the game, but I anticipate the swordfighting to be awkward this time around.
well if you want to get really nitpicky there's not much that wrong with TP either, but both are generally considered to be at least a little weaker than the N64 games
I thought the mirroring was just kind of a last minute way to adapt it to wii controls? you'd think this game, being developed from the ground up with the wii in mind, could take into consideration that there are both left and right handed people...
If a left-handed feature doesn't make it into the final product, then it's obvious that there are major problems caused by switching Link's primary hand—problems that render the game unplayable. If they could fix it without completely remaking the game, then I bet you anything that they would.
I think the idea ends up somewhat contrived anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most people hold a bow with their non dominant hand? shut up, that's still slightly less weird than the other way I could have written it...
this basically makes switching between bow and sword a pretty massive pain with how they now want you to hold the wii remote, which was just representing your sword, as if it were the bow...either way you're holding one of them "wrong" unless you change remote/chuck hands every time you go to switch items
this basically makes switching between bow and sword a pretty massive pain with how they now want you to hold the wii remote, which was just representing your sword, as if it were the bow...either way you're holding one of them "wrong" unless you change remote/chuck hands every time you go to switch items
they could just have you point at the TV and click
but that wouldn't be super happy fun time immersive motion controls! :/ it's just like using a real bow!
this is what makes me skeptical of any game that comes out on the wii no matter how good its developers have proven to be in the past...
but that wouldn't be super happy fun time immersive motion controls! :/ it's just like using a real bow!
this is what makes me skeptical of any game that comes out on the wii no matter how good its developers have proven to be in the past...
I can see where it would be useful even but I think
A) the original wii remote is mediocre at best. skyward sword will give me an indication of how much the wii motion plus improves it, but originally, the controller isn't accurate enough
B) they force it into situations where it doesn't need to be used. like the bow example. pointing at the screen using its laser gun properties works, where as using the wii remote as if it were a bow presents obvious problems especially considering that you were just using it as a sword
the wiichuk does do some novel things that I would like to see continued, while I feel the button layout is pretty bad, I think the separation of it into two units is a good idea. it allows much more flexibility while playing and allows you to use either piece in either hand. I've played brawl a fair amount using the wiichuk and it's pretty good except it's impossible to come up with a good control scheme for it because it really needs one more button that's easily accessable...as a result of the wii remote doubling as an NES controller it ends up having a few less buttons than other controllers that are quickly reachable but it has FOUR buttons that are better suited to menus and pausing and the like...
A) the original wii remote is mediocre at best. skyward sword will give me an indication of how much the wii motion plus improves it, but originally, the controller isn't accurate enough
B) they force it into situations where it doesn't need to be used. like the bow example. pointing at the screen using its laser gun properties works, where as using the wii remote as if it were a bow presents obvious problems especially considering that you were just using it as a sword
the wiichuk does do some novel things that I would like to see continued, while I feel the button layout is pretty bad, I think the separation of it into two units is a good idea. it allows much more flexibility while playing and allows you to use either piece in either hand. I've played brawl a fair amount using the wiichuk and it's pretty good except it's impossible to come up with a good control scheme for it because it really needs one more button that's easily accessable...as a result of the wii remote doubling as an NES controller it ends up having a few less buttons than other controllers that are quickly reachable but it has FOUR buttons that are better suited to menus and pausing and the like...
WaffleBlaster
Smash Journeyman
Every part of SS looks insanely amazing, from the art style to the setting to the new items and mechanics, but I just hope they can get the controls right. I just hope that the 1:1 swordplay doesn't end up leading to an akward experience, because from what I've seen in the demos Link looks wierd when you have the sword held straight(which is the home position for most people). I'm just worried about how 1:1 motion controls will LOOK, not how they will play.
I'm not really that worried about the controls themselves, more the execution and the overall experience. Wouldn't it take away from, say, Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker's impact and execution if Link had he sword pointed forward the whole time? I just don't want an akward looking Link or to have to hold my controller in a wierd way in order to keep him from looking like a doofus.
I'm not really that worried about the controls themselves, more the execution and the overall experience. Wouldn't it take away from, say, Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker's impact and execution if Link had he sword pointed forward the whole time? I just don't want an akward looking Link or to have to hold my controller in a wierd way in order to keep him from looking like a doofus.
it's hard to criticize skyward sword considering that we know nearly nothing about it...I do like the visual style but I think it looks too bright at times, it's more "sunshine and rainbows!" than "epic adventure". but again, we have a very limited sample to base that on, it could just be that area or certain lighting conditions
I think the 1:1 swordplay, if it is as advertised, should work fine if you play standing up. I've been to brawl tournaments where I'll play standing up with the wiichuk and I tend to play with my hands at my side like that, just as one would hold a sword when resting(shield may be more awkward...). I'd like to see them make a game based totally on the sword without the shield, easy way to put emphasis on the swordplay
I think the 1:1 swordplay, if it is as advertised, should work fine if you play standing up. I've been to brawl tournaments where I'll play standing up with the wiichuk and I tend to play with my hands at my side like that, just as one would hold a sword when resting(shield may be more awkward...). I'd like to see them make a game based totally on the sword without the shield, easy way to put emphasis on the swordplay
I'd like to see them make a game based totally on the shield without the sword... oh wait, there will be sequences in SS like that 
Seeing as how they promised that the level of exploration and how much you can explore will far outweigh any Zelda game before, I think what we've seen thus far is so minimal that we can't even begin to grasp all that the game has in store for us.
Seeing as how they promised that the level of exploration and how much you can explore will far outweigh any Zelda game before, I think what we've seen thus far is so minimal that we can't even begin to grasp all that the game has in store for us.
you know something that's been bothering me about that as I've been replaying the 3D games(playing TP now), they always do a camera swing through new areas and even a lot of times in dungeons, I kind of wish they'd stop doing that and force you to see things first only through the perspective of your current location
WaffleBlaster
Smash Journeyman
They've been doing that since Ocarina I believe, but I don't think they did it in the shadow temple or jabu jabu(at least not inside the actual dungeons). It's been forever since I've played TP, so I dunno if there are any in there
Guess whose birthday it is! :D
http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow...ng-US/0119-google-doodle-cezanne_full_380.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/images/6838/1_RVL_ZeldaSS_08ss11_E3.png
LOL...the minute I hovered over today's Google Doodle and saw the name Cezanne, I was like "SKYWARD SWORD!!!!!" Though I wasn't able to recognize the artist directly from the Doodle, I'm glad that I finally have prior knowledge about the artist being referenced in the Google Doodle. Most times the artists just seem random, but this time I actually understood the reference.
http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow...ng-US/0119-google-doodle-cezanne_full_380.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/images/6838/1_RVL_ZeldaSS_08ss11_E3.png
LOL...the minute I hovered over today's Google Doodle and saw the name Cezanne, I was like "SKYWARD SWORD!!!!!" Though I wasn't able to recognize the artist directly from the Doodle, I'm glad that I finally have prior knowledge about the artist being referenced in the Google Doodle. Most times the artists just seem random, but this time I actually understood the reference.
My only problem with WW was that there was too much open water. Combine that with a slow boat, and it makes for some boring sections.
Other than that, it was a great game.
Anyway, I don't if I'm more excited for Skyrim or SS. SS is in the lead right now, but every time I see more of Skyrim, it gets closer to beating SS.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Link is awkward either way. The guy is silent all the time and thats pretty awkward. Anyways I'm wondering when they'll come up with a final release date for SS. Ive found different results when I searched. Cant trust gamestop, IGN says at the end of the year O_O no way, but I'm mostly hearing a summer release now. Can anyone shed light on this?
kupo15
Smash Hero
It has a couple of additional problems. It decided to stick with WW's poorer physics compared to the N64 games
It actually discouraged exploration. For one thing, most of the things that you were rewarded for exploring is money that you had to put back. Not only has money seemed to lose importance as each game comes out, but you would have to do a ton of backtracking if you wanted to beat the game with every chest open
Closely tying into satisfying rewards, there isn't enough useless items to collect. The item menu is slowly turning into only objects that you need to beat the game. Compare this to LttP and MM where collecting cool items like the Ice rod, cape, blue cane ect and MM where you collect masks, collecting cool stuff is extremely satisfying. Its like building a trophy collection of your accomplishments in the game.
I wish I were as optimistic about motion controls as you. I agree with the others in saying that Motion controls just don't feel good as a core mechanic for the core games I grew up with. Yes. Motion controls are perfectly fine and acceptable in the games you mentioned because:
1) they are brand new games (not Woods)
2) they are games specifically designed around the functionality of the controller. The essence of Zelda is around traditional controls
3)Its a realistic sports game. It tries to replicate real life.
I hated the mirroring. I started playing TPWii and it was ok but something felt a bit blah. I checked out the GC version a couple years later and instantly felt like this was correct. It must be because the game was originally laid out unflipped (obviously). Even though its a simple left is right switch, I think most underestimates the impact it has. I mean, can you imagine playing OOT flipped now?
I'm pretty sure an interview from shiggy confirmed that lefties are going to have to deal.
Yea, thats exactly what they promised us in TP and the end product was a vast overworld filled with nothing (exaggeration but you get my point)
Skyward Sword is going to be a brand new game. I'm guessing you mean new franchises, but what does that have to do with anything? Series should be able to experiment and innovate. We would never have something like Majora's Mask or even Wind Waker without a pursuit of evolution or revolution.
SS is entirely designed around the wii-motion controls. In fact, that is probably the earliest piece of info we have been told about the game. Just because the older games played in a certain way doesn't mean experimentation and innovation shouldn't be encouraged. The essence of Zelda has nothing to do with the controls. It's about the exploration, the immersion and the item puzzle solving.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Brand new franchise, yea. The essence of Zelda is fantasy and doing unrealistic things (I was mentally thinking about the execution side of zelda's design). Idk, I feel like Zelda is too involved for motion controls and too complex for the clunkiness of it.
Motion is perfect for realistic sports games, realistic simulations and FPS. I don't feel like its the go to "end all be all" control system that you praise it to be.
And what does your MM WW innovating game design example have anything to do with motion controls? Yay, they are constantly improving and innovating gameplay and game design in regards to the classic controller. Good for Nintendo. Now lets switch to a totally different type of controller expect it to be better.
I just feel disconnected with Zelda when playing with motion controls. Wii Sports...not so much.
Motion is perfect for realistic sports games, realistic simulations and FPS. I don't feel like its the go to "end all be all" control system that you praise it to be.
And what does your MM WW innovating game design example have anything to do with motion controls? Yay, they are constantly improving and innovating gameplay and game design in regards to the classic controller. Good for Nintendo. Now lets switch to a totally different type of controller expect it to be better.
I just feel disconnected with Zelda when playing with motion controls. Wii Sports...not so much.
Oh, you're absolutely right! The core of Zelda has always been slightly uninteresting combat (minus bosses) inbetween puzzles, so they should never try to spice it up by adding strategy to your slices! Obviously, pressing one button is waaay too involved for motion controls.
By the way, how do you feel disconnected with Zelda + motion controls when the only game that HAS them so far is TP? Besides, the only really bad thing about those controls was the terrible method of swinging your sword; the bow was marvelous.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Oh geez. You guys are experts at incorrectly streamlining everything! I actually didn't have a problem with the bow, hook shot ect Why is that? Oh that's right. It is POINTER control not MOTION control! The Motion controls refers to MOTIONS as button inputs for ACTIONS!
And you are still once again not understanding my point between the difference in the essence of Zelda GAME DESIGN which is the puzzles exploration ect and the Zelda CONTROL ASPECT. I swear people these days forget the fact that game design and controller design are two separate entities that must come together seemlessly. And people forget the golden rule of a good controller. If you don't notice the controller, then its doing its JOB!!! This means that there are very specific games that motion controls feels invisible and others just get in the way!!
And are you really that blind? Just because we will have 1:1 sword motion does NOT mean that now is the ONLY time we can have strategic sword slices! Even though when have 360 deg slash control, the game still (as far as we know) only deals with vertical and horizontal slices which I might as well point out was very possible in the older games.
>_>
And you are still once again not understanding my point between the difference in the essence of Zelda GAME DESIGN which is the puzzles exploration ect and the Zelda CONTROL ASPECT. I swear people these days forget the fact that game design and controller design are two separate entities that must come together seemlessly. And people forget the golden rule of a good controller. If you don't notice the controller, then its doing its JOB!!! This means that there are very specific games that motion controls feels invisible and others just get in the way!!
And are you really that blind? Just because we will have 1:1 sword motion does NOT mean that now is the ONLY time we can have strategic sword slices! Even though when have 360 deg slash control, the game still (as far as we know) only deals with vertical and horizontal slices which I might as well point out was very possible in the older games.
>_>
Eh? How is pointing any different from motion? Both of them involve moving your hand, and neither one needs a ton of motion unless you get really into it.
By the way, how does 1:1 sword control "get in the way?" It works perfectly in Wii Sports Resort and Sports Champions (ps3), so I have no idea why it wouldn't work in SS. It's pretty easy to forget that there's a controller in your hands, which is what I assume to be your point.
If you're talking about the game being built around motion controls (as in, design works seamlessly with control), it looks like it'll do exactly that. Try watching some E3 demos that don't involve Miyamoto.
And I have one small question. You say that we've always needed strategic sword slices, but when have we ever REALLY needed them? It's fairly easy to make it through each game while constantly thrusting and occasionally doing something else, but SS is built around the concept of strategically slicing, as seen in the demo where you have to fight the Deku Babas. If you think that those enemies are the only ones who will use that concept, I don't really know what to say, but I sincerely hope that you can agree with me on that.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Pointing and motion is different even though pointing requires motion. If you've ever watched E3 or interviews about games, they clearly make the distinction.
"X game will use motion controls for x and make use of the pointer for y"
"If you want Mario to do a spin jump, using the motion controller to shake will do that whereas the pointer function will aim star bits"
I know they have very clearly referenced both motion controls AND pointer functionality in the same sentence. There are even games that don't use the pointer and its stated that it uses motion controls. I didn't want to have a fight about semantics but you didn't understand that there is a distinction between the two thus not understanding what I was talking about
Yes. It feels fine. The archery feels fine. The bowling feels fine. Its because it is trying to be a realistic simulation of a real life sport. Not an adventure game with real life attributes. Its so hard to explain what I mean:
I've said this before and ppl agreed with me including LT
No. YOU said! Your putting words in my mouth! If you read more carefully I said that the previous Zelda games had the ABILITY to do strategic sword slices. From what we saw in the demo with though Deku babas, if you stuck that in the older Zelda games, it would be FINE! That doesn't mean that they capitalized on it. That just means the option was there waiting to be used!!
Once again, I didn't say those were the only enemies that might have them. I said that it seems like they would only have two types of Deku, horizontal and vertical. I can really see Nintendo just sticking with those directions despite the freedom of movement of the controller.
___________________________
Honestly. Can't you see that Wii was never designed to please us as first priority? The motion controls are there to cater towards a new audience first and foremost. We have been lied to for the past 3 (?) yrs now and it seems like you are still buying into the lies. I really want to support what Nintendo is doing but past history has proven that Nintendo can't be trusted anymore since the switch to their new focus audience.
I've never seen a reason where the motion is used other than to either steal the money from their new audience or to compensate for the lack of buttons. If you look at the competing companies that are more for the hardcore gamer, they have motion controls not to give them a better experience but to put their hands in the pockets of the new market that the Wii created. Not only that but more and more you are seeing serious game developers going back on their promise to use motion controls because they realize its a gimmick. They understand that a motionless controller with buttons works best for their complex games and that there isn't any reason to fix something that isn't broken.
So here is to agreeing with the one guy who hopes that the motion craze is going away. I can imagine it will once the casual crowd gets bored with it.
So going back to SS, I can see that the precision slicing will be nothing more than the option of cutting pointless trees on a diagonal. If it does play a factor in game advancement, I predict that requiring precision slices will be no more than a tedious element in the game that would have been equally as good as a general hack that we've been doing for ages.
This is my prediction and I hope I am proved wrong
Sheesh, that is a whole lot of words.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Sorry.........
I don't mind. You just seem to get worked up pretty easy
kupo15
Smash Hero
I don't get worked up really. Love how text doesn't convey emotion hahaI don't mind. You just seem to get worked up pretty easy
It could be. I'm going to give it a try in the stores before buying it. Hopefully the controls won't suck otherwise I'll enjoy it even if its going to be easy like it usually is these days.
But the plain truth is that I'm done being gullible about expecting things are going to be good anymore since all the other classic games have been annoying in the control aspect from the motion controls.
I've a feeling that Skyward Sword will play off the 8-world + 9th bonus world schematic that NSMBWii and DKCR have used. So by that accord, I'm expecting 8 main dungeons (and regions which house the dungeons) and a 9th bonus dungeon (and potential region).
Sephy95
Smash Lord
I'm sure everyones heard that Miyamoto announced SS to be over half finished. If its taken over 5 years to have it over half finished, who knows how much longer we'll have to wait for an official release date.
GwJ
Smash Hero
That's the spirit!
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Its a really good thing I'm 15. No offense to much older fans. I'll probably still be a fan when I'm 30. XD