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The Japanese Ledge Grab rule
- Thread starter M@v
- Start date
clowsui
Smash Legend
LOL is this because Q hates camping all the time or is this because you guys were all playing your non-camping characters?
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
The thing he is saying is that nobody who isn't planking will come even close to reaching the 70 limit, so you won't get penalized for ledge-camping for a small portion of the match, or to get the pressure off of you and neutralize momentum. Only people who are ledge-camping to run out time (Planking) will come even close to the 70 mark.
CO18
Smash Hero
That's about the average I get.
I think you quoted the wrong post lol.
CO18
Smash Hero
No, I didn't.
catfriedrice
Smash Journeyman
I did it in a 5 minute match (plus sudden death).
Needless to say, both of us did it in Sudden Death, as neither wanted to cross the bomb path. Longest SD in that tournaments history. I finally went down after 4-6 minutes of bombs just because I had already placed the week before and did not need to place again this time.
But, while we're at it, we better add a rule against flying under the stage to stall. I mean, you can't fly back and forth under FD in a 5 minute tourney and get 70 ledge grabs.
JFox
Smash Hero
I don't understand, don't people want to actually enjoy this game? Is it really all about winning for winnings sake? Don't people want to enjoy winning tournaments and feel like the practice they've put into this game has a rewarding outcome?
Don't you want this game to involve a little more skill than just who is the best ledgecamper? Thats should be such a small aspect of the game...I know this post is really subjective and biased, but I don't understand how people can play such a bad game where all u gotta do is hit the person once and than run to the ledge (yes it isn't invincible, but its advantages are ridiculous). And than when people propose a way to safeguard the game from heading into a downward spiral, people reject it?
I hear ya plank, I really do. Same to you Omni. Everything you say is very logical, and its true that there are other (less broken) aspects of the game you that you can compare this to. But regardless of everything you've said, the bottom line is that Planking could really break the game to the point of forcing the community to either ban a character, or just cause the community to lose interest entirely.
Don't you want this game to involve a little more skill than just who is the best ledgecamper? Thats should be such a small aspect of the game...I know this post is really subjective and biased, but I don't understand how people can play such a bad game where all u gotta do is hit the person once and than run to the ledge (yes it isn't invincible, but its advantages are ridiculous). And than when people propose a way to safeguard the game from heading into a downward spiral, people reject it?
I hear ya plank, I really do. Same to you Omni. Everything you say is very logical, and its true that there are other (less broken) aspects of the game you that you can compare this to. But regardless of everything you've said, the bottom line is that Planking could really break the game to the point of forcing the community to either ban a character, or just cause the community to lose interest entirely.
SpaceFalcon
Smash Lord
There will always be brawl players, even when the majority of the good ones get bored of making money of it.
Fletch
Smash Master
Too true, long live planking.
JFox
Smash Hero
true
Plank, u wanna come to a melee tourney like the olden golden days? I miss MD/VA so much
RyanPF
Smash Journeyman
Your tourney plays Sudden Deaths? >.> That's different.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Oracle
Smash Master
Dude I think that we should all go to brawl tournies and plank and win so we can convince people to play malee.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Omg I had that very same idea not long ago. If more noobs start outplacing the pros, then everyone will stop playing eventually.
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
You need to play some Brawl+ with me some time. It's close to Melee,but has no wavedash and an auto L-Cancel. I think you'd really enjoy it.
M@v
Subarashii!
FOR THE LAST TIME,. THIS IS NOT A MELEE VS BRAWL THREAD. IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING RELATIVE TO THE DISCUSSION AT HAND TO CONTRIUBUTE, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.
This thread is about discussing a rule for brawl, not which game is better.
This thread is about discussing a rule for brawl, not which game is better.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Bring it over to Yoster's next time and we will. I'd rather play you in Melee though.You need to play some Brawl+ with me some time. It's close to Melee,but has no wavedash and an auto L-Cancel. I think you'd really enjoy it.
You're right, becuase it's already clear which game is.
But because everyone keeps planking like a gay, I do support this rule if nothing else can be done. It's sad, but I guess it's the only thing that can be done to stop these homoerotic playstyles.
M@v
Subarashii!
Life could be so much easier if people in competitive smash knew what honor was and didn't hug the ledge like it was their girlfriend. Otherwise we wouldn't even need a discussion like this.
Honor does not exist in video games sadly... when you say that its like saying.
The internet is a place for fair discussion, and there is a type of integrity.
Sadly no, so rules likes this need to be implemented.
btw after a long break... ish back
Irow
Smash Ace
According to Michael Hey (NorCal's best IC's, and has experience in Japan's scene), the rule only applies if the time is ran out.
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
That's... kinda important.
Genome Squirrel
Smash Apprentice
so after i force 70 ledgegrabs, i can plank and win as long as i don't reach 70 ledgegrabs
indirect rules are bad
pockyD
Smash Legend
cutter
Smash Champion
Who says you have to plank the entire match? You can plank for one of your opponent's stocks to easily get around the 70 ledge grab limit, utterly **** them, and then fight them normally with a very comfortable one stock lead. Comebacks are not that common in Brawl.
pockyD
Smash Legend
What's your point here?
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
i think he's arguing that the timer shouldn't NEED to run out for the rule to matter because if they get to like 70 grabs and win even with a second left, they win
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
The timer running out should be the rule and here's why:
Without this ledge camping rule, if someone has more stock then you and start's ledge camping, you have to approach before the timer runs out or you lose.
With this rule, you don't have to approach you can just sit and wait, it we'll take little over a minute for someone to reach 70 ledge grabs if the sit on the edge like Plank was doing at Cali. Once they hit that mark they will have to start going after you or THEY lose,
The only problem I see is that you could play them fair in square after their 70 ledge grabs, but continuously run away until there's about 40 seconds left on the timer. then you start planking them(Knowing you won't reach 70 before the timer runs out, and they lose)
again though, they shouldn't have been planking at the beginning of the match anyways.
Also, I'd just like to point out. In all other fighting game communities that I've seen.(I know people who play street fighter competitively), Camping or Turtling isn't really frowned upon. Maybe though, it's because it's easier to punish camping in street fighter than it is in Brawl
Without this ledge camping rule, if someone has more stock then you and start's ledge camping, you have to approach before the timer runs out or you lose.
With this rule, you don't have to approach you can just sit and wait, it we'll take little over a minute for someone to reach 70 ledge grabs if the sit on the edge like Plank was doing at Cali. Once they hit that mark they will have to start going after you or THEY lose,
The only problem I see is that you could play them fair in square after their 70 ledge grabs, but continuously run away until there's about 40 seconds left on the timer. then you start planking them(Knowing you won't reach 70 before the timer runs out, and they lose)
again though, they shouldn't have been planking at the beginning of the match anyways.
Also, I'd just like to point out. In all other fighting game communities that I've seen.(I know people who play street fighter competitively), Camping or Turtling isn't really frowned upon. Maybe though, it's because it's easier to punish camping in street fighter than it is in Brawl
pockyD
Smash Legend
but if they're "edgecamping", the only reason they won with a second left is either because the opponent chose to engage them (which is stupid) or because they chose to eventually get off the edge, in which case there's no reason their win wouldn't be legitimate because they gained no advantage from edgecamping
Genome Squirrel
Smash Apprentice
are you arguing that endgame ledge camping is the only ledgecamping that is "bad"
pockyD
Smash Legend
No, for probably the 9th time, I personally don't believe ANY ledgecamping is "bad"
good god man, back to 4th grade
Genome Squirrel
Smash Apprentice
i meant do you think TOs, the people who may wish to initiate this rule, only have a problem with planking endgame, because if that's the only thing they want to stop, 70 is high enough to not hinder ledgecampers
pockyD
Smash Legend
this is a bit hard to decipher, but i'll take a crack at it
from what i've been led to believe, bannable "planking" is edgecamping with intent to run out the clock
in that context, "planking" happens at any time, and is a larger "problem" early in the match, where much more time would be run off (say, 6+ minutes), as opposed to later in the match, where much less time would be left (say, 30 seconds), meaning they had 6+ minutes of "legitimate" play to settle it
edit: to clarify, I believe the hypothetical problem isn't "when" the ledgecamping happens; it's the duration of it
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
If there was a time on the ledge stat it would make things a whole lot easier.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
I didn't see this in the first post, and I don't feel like going through 24 pages, but what happens if both players go over 70? Does it nullify the rule?
Probably. That match would be funny to see too, just for the novelty factor.