The GtaN Brawl General discussion thread! -Wait, did the title change?

[Lawlb0t]

Just a tad late.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2554/lolwuta.png

 

[Yukiwarashi]

LOL, if only you could give reps on these boards...

 

[Iliad]

Just a tad late.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2554/lolwuta.png

I ****ing love you.

 

[Gichan]

Woooooooooowwww

Okay, I know I am going to be hated...but what the **** is this ****...?

Is MK reeaallyy banned here now officially?

And man, the attacks on Swordgard are getting ridiculous, he is only bringing up points and warning us of the consequences of banning MK. It is true, it probably won't increase attendance, it won't make other characters tourney viable, we will continue being scrubs and ***** about other things to ban, and get ***** by any other region's players' MKs.

We should either wait for what happens with the SBR's decision, or admit we are scrubs and suck too hard to train, read, and concentrate on how to beat MKs and overall just get better. MK kinda does make this game suck, he is overpowered in many ways, but he is still legal and we are being called scrubs for this ****? And worst of all, denying it? Seriously, like I stated before, let's admit we are scrubs who just want to have fun with the game rather than care so much for it's competitive nature.

**** man, too many attacks on Swordgard when he is just trying to talk sense into the community, even if he IS being annoying at times.

SG, one thing, Ambrose pwned you in a hyyyppeee MM, which should stand for it being DAYUM important, don't try to disregard it with johns or whatever else. You own to, I learned some techniques and a good desync from you, but in the end, Ambrose pwned you. One DEFINITE thing is that you have the grabs way more down than Ambrose, he sucks at cgs now and it disappoints his fans...oh well.

Lawlbot just pwned this thread, that was hilarious.

Maaann, I don't know what to say, I hate MK, but I still want to have hope for this scene to kick back into shape like it once was. Let's just continue and pwn these MKs. ****, even I have been trying to think of ways to own MKs and I hate him and this game.

The ONLY thing that pisses me off about MK the most(what I truly hate and would wish for this ban to happen) is how it helps people place soooo much better in mere weeks. People like TO Joe beforehand, LKP, PoisonMist, Anthony, and now I'm hearing Sauc3. It just DOES feel unfair losing to them in such a short span of time because it then looks like it is the char, because how do they surpass us soooo **** quickly? BUT, then again, those players are ****ing legit, so what can you say?

Wow....my head hurts. This does sound ****ing random but i just wanted to type something and say anthing. This came out as a stream of consciousness so sorry about how random the structure is.

Okay, now you can hate me.

 

[Deleted member]

I think I'm done with this argument. I feel my posts are going largely ignored (especially in the main poll thread..that thing goes by so quickly, it's pointless)

But even here they're just being dismissed. Good work GTA, we banned MK. Host a couple tournaments and see how it plays out. If we're still the black sheep of Brawl a couple months from now, maybe we'll come back and rethink about things. And who knows - without MK dominating for a while, your secondaries, your characters who were previously shut down - maybe they'll really evolve a bit. And if MK becomes unbanned in Ontario, then maybe those characters will be a little more equipped to handle him.

I'm done.

 

[Runawayfire]

Those TO's who choose to host tournaments with him banned will do so, those who host tournaments and are against the ban will allow him.

It doesn't have to get any more complicated then that, at this point any further swordgarguments are pretty useless, and it would be better for this thread to move back to what it was.
Also snes focus and hype is always good!
Canada is gonna run ****!

 

[Gichan]

If that option about the TO being able to control the MK ban is available, then that should settle it....if it is determined by the SBR, which I heard is possible if past 50% or something?

And Delorted, I have read ALL of your posts and they are great, well constructed, arguments. You definitely give the best argument for the MK ban by far. I say Hype brought up the best arguments for MK notbeing banned. The only thing is, we are breaking ourselves apart from a whole community (North America at least). But I do appreciate the analogy with gay marriage. It does make sense. But I'm just one of the people that wish our scene was not called scrubby.

In other words, I am not voting to unban MK cause he is justified, I am voting to wanting this scene to be taken seriously. Who knows, maybe delorted and many others are right about secondaries blooming to be able to take on MKs, that is the ideal situation.

 

[pastaboy]

HAHAHA lawlbot that flowchart is ***** soo awsome lololol

 

[swordgard]

HAHAHA lawlbot that flowchart is ***** soo awsome lololol

I am gonna admit that i lolled badly at it(though usually there is an ending spot to these XD).


Either way, you can say he pwned me or something, fact is, i did tell everyone i did not want to MM him. I said so on the forums, at the tourney, it even took ambrose about 5 full minutes to get me to accept the thing. You guys want to see what you want.


Heres the fact.He is better than me at the ditto most probably. He did beat in a MM you guys overhyped which i did not want in the first place. I did outplace him by much. Ambrose has tons of ics dittos experience, i have little. Guess what, 1 set doesnt prove who is the better of the two players especially if its in a ditto MM when i outplaced him in tourney. If you want to say hes a better player but cant cg, guess what, the better player is the one who places the highest, CG is just another skill to learn.


Either way gichan, you know , the pro ban on the actual SBR thread has some points, so do a few intelligent people here. However others here just want to ban him to make A)the game more fun, which is not a valid ban criteria, B) they he makes BS stuff, which means that these people have simply been beaten by MK and cant accept their own lack of skill.


But hey, you guys definitly managed to copy texas, when are the ics infinites for? You do realize texas' metagame didnt change that much, new secondaries werent suddenly viable.


Oh and as for people saying players like TO joe gots tons better switching to MK, thats false. He could have picked up any top tier and do the same. Thing is he went from an unviable one to the best, of course his tourney rankings are gonna improve. Has nothing to do with MK being broken, the player was already really smart and very good but then chose to take a tourney viable char. Finally: Less MK=More D3, marth and pikachus. These will be your new plague as they make much more characters unviable.

 

[PND]

MK Banned HOBO happened.

1st Razer(SNAKE) $550
2nd Gnes(DIDDY) $250
3rd Dojo(DIDDY/KIRBY) $100
4th Fliphop(DIDDY) $50
5th Lee M(LUCARIO) $25
5th MikeHaze (MARTH) $25
7th UTD Zac(G&W)
7th Bwett (YOSHI/D3/DIDDY)

Apparently another player listed there used Diddy fairly extensively, but wasn't mentioned (from what I've been reading, not sure which player)

So basically, replace MK with Diddy and you have the new Brawl metagame. Doesn't look THAT diverse to me, tbqh (obvious exception: Bwett)

 

[swordgard]

MK Banned HOBO happened.

1st Razer(SNAKE) $550
2nd Gnes(DIDDY) $250
3rd Dojo(DIDDY/KIRBY) $100
4th Fliphop(DIDDY) $50
5th Lee M(LUCARIO) $25
5th MikeHaze (MARTH) $25
7th UTD Zac(G&W)
7th Bwett (YOSHI/D3/DIDDY)

Apparently another player listed there used Diddy fairly extensively, but wasn't mentioned (from what I've been reading)

So basically, replace MK with Diddy and you have the new Brawl metagame. Doesn't look THAT diverse to me, tbqh (obvious exception: Bwett)

Diddy for new MK XD Lets just ban diddy now. Then ics, then snake.Then wel have a "balanced metagame". More bans can only lead to something better.

 

[nickcam]

Gi serious did u read the rest of the thread. SBR is all mk's making them clearly biased. No one gives a **** what sbr says they arent the controlling authority for this game its up to us as the players. Again swordgard get ***** stop johning etc. to lazy to type. As for T10 if its on a sunday ill be there just to see JWong and sanford lol

 

[Iliad]

I've said from the start to a lot of people. I hate playing diddy and ics much more than I hate playing MK and Snake, as I find diddy and ics are more broken than that former two. However, I -am- pro ban, because MK genuinely hurts the community sword, you HAVE to realize it does man. People need to realize that there are other chars out there than just MK so the game doesn't being a laughing stock, and it pretty mcuh already is.

The ban in ontario would only be temporary unless SBR got the ban through -which is unlikely. Once people are good and diverse, we can unban meta*** again. And I guarantee you, he won't take such a predominant role in the PR.

 

[swordgard]

I've said from the start to a lot of people. I hate playing diddy and ics much more than I hate playing MK and Snake, as I find diddy and ics are more broken than that former two. However, I -am- pro ban, because MK genuinely hurts the community sword, you HAVE to realize it does man. People need to realize that there are other chars out there than just MK so the game doesn't being a laughing stock, and it pretty mcuh already is.

The ban in ontario would only be temporary unless SBR got the ban through -which is unlikely. Once people are good and diverse, we can unban meta*** again. And I guarantee you, he won't take such a predominant role in the PR.

Its not MK being broken, its the players flocking to the best character. Not FORCED overcentralization. If you got a bandwagon effect now, why do you think there wont be one after(i can sincerely see one in the hobo thread.)


Either way nickam, i outplaced you and ambrose, if you want to cling onto a single MM, fine. I outplayed ambrose on overall at the tourney by far, you ranked as high as him. Seriously, if you cant see that, then theres no point arguing with you.


And SBR isnt biased, its how the community works. SBR is composed of the best players around. Best player often means alot of knowledge. Now take the best players+alot of em playing MK due to him being the best(notice, bandwagon and not forced), they are bound to have a few of them place very well at tourney, thus also getting into the SBR.

You probably dont know enough about the game to even argue about the ban, so stop trying. Your arguments were basically saying how SBR is rigged, MK is obviously broken due to stalling and BS. No real argument there. Did you use any kind of statistic to show MK was forcing overcentralization? No. Now, in this thread, there are 2 type of people. People like gi who actually read both sides of the argument, and then theirs people like you who only reads theirs, dismisses the other and proceeds to say bad stuff. Including personal attacks.


But hey, as i said, this community is turning into a joke.


EDIT: Illiad seems intelligent enough, hel read my post <3

 

[pastaboy]

And SBR isnt biased, its how the community works. SBR is composed of the best players around. Best player often means alot of knowledge.

....inui...

 

[kr3wman]

Inui knows alot about the game, but has next to zero internet social skills.

 

[swordgard]

....inui...

Despite Inui being narcissic a bit alot of the time, hes a much better player than most of you guys are right now, so dont diss him. Either way, he places in doubles very well and is very knowledgeable.


I came to one single conclusion. Ontario just like texas is suffering of Dhunning-Kruger effet.


Kruger and Dunning noted a number of previous studies which tend to suggest that in skills as diverse as reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis, "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" (as Charles Darwin put it).They hypothesized that with a typical skill which humans may possess in greater or lesser degree,

Incompetent individuals tend to overestimate their own level of skill.

Incompetent individuals fail to recognize genuine skill in others.

Incompetent individuals fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy.

If they can be trained to substantially improve their own skill level, these individuals can recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill.

 

[Runawayfire]

You really just don't listen do you. You must have nothing else to do then come here and make people not like you. Are you so short sighted?

 

[swordgard]

You really just don't listen do you. You must have nothing else to do then come here and make people not like you. Are you so short sighted?

Far sighted*.

And no i dont listen, when people just scream without arguing for the most part.

Hype showed you that he does not force overcentralization, yet you choose to believe he is broken even if tourney results says otherwise. You told me not to theorycraft, you guys are the one saying hes broken with theory crafting instead of using tourney results.

 

[Mikey7]

I think the best thing to do is just ignore that idiot, so yeah no one respond to him

Next topic: ICs THAT crap is broken lol

Then after that we're fine. I've asked Ambrose to think of a fair way to limit ICs, but I think the general consensus for everyone is 2 grabs til death, not 1

 

[nickcam]

That sounds perfect and im pretty sure IC mains here will have no problem with that. Usually they mess up the first grab or one grab is mashed out of anyways

 

[Mikey7]

I'm thinking best way is grab til 100% then release (not a spike or smash, just release)

Then they have to either regrab you for a kill or get the kill, that seems fair

 

[swordgard]

I'm thinking best way is grab til 100% then release (not a spike or smash, just release)

Then they have to either regrab you for a kill or get the kill, that seems fair

How is that fair. they have ****ing bad matchups, marth doesnt. Your logic is fail. Seriously, stop thinking ics are broken, they have bad matchups. They wont dominate, every char has ways to deal with the infinites. Seriously you guys are whining for no reason at all.


Bring me 1 reason as to why you should ban infinites if you have no proof they will overcentralize the game. Being unfair is not a reason, as most of your characters have 6-4 matchups agaisnt them. No johns.

 

[Niko_K]

Just because we're banning MK doesn't give us the go ahead to randomly decide what else is completely broken and ban it.

There will never be a real way to monitor an IC limitation rule, it shouldn't really even be on the table for discussion....

 

[Runawayfire]

Swordgard, I suggest you look up 'the curse of cassandra', although I'm not saying what you're saying is right (truth). The fact is you're so obnoxious in delivery and conduct that nobody even cares what you're saying anymore. If people didn't think you were annoying before, they certainly do now, and I can see you being the butt of many future jokes. This is why you're short sighted.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Let's not touch ICs for now, seriously. You're going to open a crapload of buckets if you decide to bring them in. You know, like, "If we're going to limit ICs' infinites, why not limit or ban Dedede's infinite on the 4 or 5 characters he completely screws over?"

Anyway...I want to battle someone on Wi-Fi. PM or add me on MSN. z_z

 

[nickcam]

DDD infinite is pretty much banned at any tourney. I don't like comparing brawl to melee but wobbling was banned in melee and its a hell of alot harder to grab in melee then it is in brawl (same one grab to death principle). The limit to the cg is proposed only because one character with a one grab to death possiblilty in any game is ridiculously broken. It wouldnt be so hard to monitor grabs up to 100, i mean if they do a cg they cant pass 100% or risk being dq'd or something...

 

[Cyan_]

actually, wobbling isn't banned in quite a few Melee tourneys. wasn't banned at Genesis

just saying y'know

 

[Tin Man]

If u look at D3, and marth vs ness and lucas, their infinites where banned, now if we are to compare ICs to them, lets start of by answering this question. Why are the D3 & Marth infinites banned, then we shall go from there...

 

[JustNoOne]

Because King Dedede's and Marth's Infinites are easy to do and require timing only.

 

[GUARD]

Guys, D3s infinites and marths infinite vs the mother chars were NOT banned at major tourneys.


Shows your lack of knowledge nickam.


EDIT: Its swordgard

 

[AvaricePanda]

Wobbling wasn't banned at most Melee tournaments.

Why would you limit ICs chaingrab? It isn't even broken. ICs have bad match-ups that can easily get away from chaingrabs, AKA Snake.

The MK ban is silly enough, as all you're doing is making sure that you place badly if you go out of region, making MK mains change to a different character just because you don't like seeing him at the top of the PR (even though they're still good players and could easily be at the top of the PR anyway), but banning ICs chaingrabs?

That's just silly.

You're changing match-ups and characters that don't need to be changed. ICs are hardly broken, but because you don't like them, you're going to not allow their chaingrab? You don't ban something simply because you don't like it, and it's hard to get past, and you want the game to be easier and more fun for you. You ban it when it's truly ban-worthy. MK is not banworthy, but at least that can be debatable. ICs chaingrabs are far from that.

Plus, there's no way of monitoring that rule even if you do set it in place.

 

[GUARD]

Wobbling wasn't banned at most Melee tournaments.

Why would you limit ICs chaingrab? It isn't even broken. ICs have bad match-ups that can easily get away from chaingrabs, AKA Snake.

The MK ban is silly enough, as all you're doing is making sure that you place badly if you go out of region, making MK mains change to a different character just because you don't like seeing him at the top of the PR (even though they're still good players and could easily be at the top of the PR anyway), but banning ICs chaingrabs?

That's just silly.

You're changing match-ups and characters that don't need to be changed. ICs are hardly broken, but because you don't like them, you're going to not allow their chaingrab? You don't ban something simply because you don't like it, and it's hard to get past, and you want the game to be easier and more fun for you. You ban it when it's truly ban-worthy. MK is not banworthy, but at least that can be debatable. ICs chaingrabs are far from that.

Plus, there's no way of monitoring that rule even if you do set it in place.

Lol, at least they may listen to you.



Or they will tell you your not from the scene so your opinion doesnt matter.

 

[Niko_K]

End of discussion. MK is banned in Southern Ontario at the moment.

Feels good.

LOL I've seen what goes on in the SBR myself, and the bias is there. Even so there is more than enough momentum for an MK ban to sweep the US, the EC(Ego Coast) is just all butthurt about it for no reason other than Ally winning tournaments.

 

[Niko_K]

Double post for lol Indiana/January 09

 

[GUARD]

End of discussion. MK is banned in Southern Ontario at the moment.

Feels good.

LOL I've seen what goes on in the SBR myself, and the bias is there. Even so there is more than enough momentum for an MK ban to sweep the US, the EC(Ego Coast) is just all butthurt about it for no reason other than Ally winning tournaments.

Heres the thing. I can agree to MK being banned, we talked alot about it on MSN. What i cant stand is when people like nickam start to try to ban everything they dont like just because they think itl be more fun(aka easier for em in tourney).

 

[Niko_K]

Well now that we have that out of the way. I don't see why this discussion needs to go on.

IC's definitely WON'T be seeing any limitations....there are hardly any IC mains to make it a problem anyways. A rule wouldn't be able to be enforced anyways.

 

[Cyan_]

The MK ban is silly enough, as all you're doing is making sure that you place badly if you go out of region, making MK mains change to a different character just because you don't like seeing him at the top of the PR (even though they're still good players and could easily be at the top of the PR anyway), but banning ICs chaingrabs?

How would you know that, Mr.Indiana boy?

 

[GUARD]

How would you know that, Mr.Indiana boy?

Dont you have 6 months foresight abilities.


Oh wait, thats only ally. **** him!!!

 

[KingAce]

Actually no, niko mk is not officially banned in southern ontario lol. We can still host tournaments with mk allowed, your just too ignorant and think that you and mikey are the only TOs in ontario. I'm talking to my friend about hosting bi weeklies even when school starts. MK will be allowed there, and im sure we can get 15-20 people each biweekly.