The GtaN Brawl General discussion thread! -Wait, did the title change?

[pastaboy]

lets a have a community vote, southern ontario ppl only maybe?

 

[Mikey7]

lets a have a community vote, southern ontario ppl only maybe?

I was just about to post this

 

[Hype]

lets a have a community vote, southern ontario ppl only maybe?

I don't want him banned.

but, I definitely don't want him banned if no one else bans him.

 

[nickcam]

Texas has him banned so we wouldnt be the only one. SBR is all MK's and the US had George Bush as their president for 8 years (LOL). Lets not follow their example.

 

[Mikey7]

After going back to the 1st page of the debate:

Ban: 18 - Minus, Nickcam, Mikey, Yuuki, Marik, Pastaboy, Pho, Fatal, Tinman, Iliad, JL, Gi, Anthony, Avarice, Carter, KC, Delorted, Fool

Legal: 4 - Suzaku, Kingace, Hype, Nin

Don't care: 2 - Joe, Phiddlesticks


Lolz, if i missed you or switched you, pleast post

I think the community has spoken. I say MK is banned in GTA tournies after summer.

 

[pastaboy]

i was just about to post this

 

[Mikey7]

i was just about to post this

You may beat me Diddy vs anything, but I **** your crap in polls:embarrass

 

[Deleted member]

I highly doubt you would place top 5 after only 2 days of playing MK. I think you underestimate the complexity of playing MK on a high(ish) level.

I never said I would achieve a placing in the top 5. Don't strawman me. However, we can look at Doc, who is pretty spanking new to the GTA scene and is already what, third? You can say he's good, but I'm just gonna attribute that to Meta Knight. This kind of thing would never ever happen in Melee. This game is easy to pick up, and I'm not a noob at smash. I've played countless matches in every smash game (even the custom ones) and this kind of thing transfers over. I went to Pastaboy's tournament and was clowning people with my Peach - who I hadn't played in months and months - this game is like checkers. I'm actually not bashing Brawl here. You think I'm underestimating the skill it takes to play at the top level - and I think you're overestimating yourselves as players.

Wow I just read that a day or two and your MK would be tournament ready? How stupid can a person get.. lol I will put any amount of $$ on the line that my snake (who I only play in friendlies once in a while) will beat your mk at any point in time. That goes out to all the other people who think they can just pick up mk and get top 5.

I never said I'd get top 5, but to be quite honest I wouldn't put it past myself...LOL. Ace you're hilarious, do you actually think you could get top 5 without MK?

also I just like to mention again MK takes an average of ~30% of the pot. I wouldn't say MK is dominating Brawl.

Again. That's 30% of the pot to ONE character out of nearly FORTY. Meta Knight overshadows everyone else - I never even knew about this pot average data. Just further proves Meta Knight's dominance.

In theory the metagame should be increasing logarithmically. In other words, we will get to a point where there's almost no more startegies and AT's to find with MK and all chacraters should get closers.

In theory the best character will always win, and that's what we've seen.

The MK boards work hard by sharing ideas and tactics. Why should they be penalized for thier hard work by banning Metakight.

I'd argue that other character boards work even much harder than the MK mains. MK is not fighting any up-hill battles. That means when Ness isn't working out half way through someone's Smash career, it's either: a) pick a different main or b) quit. There's also c) train harder, but I don't really see that happening with Brawl's case, because I legitimately think MK is by a long shot better than every other character, and that's just the truth.

You and Ace don't want him banned because you ****ing main the guy. I'm not gonna call bias, but the will to do so is definitely growing.

 

[AvariceX]

None of those tactics are difficult to perform, and they were probably discovered by lesser players before M2K, even though I'd hardly call them discoveries.

For the record I uair juggle to tornado killed my brother's TL on the day of Brawl's release

 

[pastaboy]

mikey u **** me with your polls.

ace's snake is legit

 

[Violent-nin]

If you guys truly want him banned it's fine with me in the sense I don't main MK and never will. I just feel bad for the MK mainers in our community.

 

[FatalX]

after Going Back To The 1st Page Of The Debate:

Ban: 18 - Minus, Nickcam, Mikey, Yuuki, Marik, Pastaboy, Pho, Fatal, Tinman, Iliad, Jl, Gi, Anthony, Avarice, Carter, Kc, Delorted, Fool

Legal: 4 - Suzaku, Kingace, Hype, Nin

Don't Care: 2 - Joe, Phiddlesticks


Lolz, If I Missed You Or Switched You, Pleast Post

I Think The Community Has Spoken. I Say Mk Is Banned In Gta Tournies After Summer.

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

 

[AvariceX]

If you guys truly want him banned it's fine with me in the sense I don't main MK and never will. I just feel bad for the MK mainers in our community.

I have enough respect for the top MK mains in our community to realize that they will still place in the top without MK. The difference is the low-mid level MK players will no longer have a free ride through pools/early bracket.

 

[Mikey7]

To top that off Zeph, and Ambrose also wnat a ban so thats 20, and Nin if I read your post right, you don't really care so thats 3 for no ban lol

 

[Toronto Joe]

can we do a vote for ICs being banned

im srs

oh and also,if we do implement the ban it shouldnt be anytime soon,atleast give MK mains like 3 months to get a solid new main to make things fair

 

[AvariceX]

If you've been playing this game for this long and can't play another character you don't deserve to win lol. I play at least 14 characters with a similar level of competency that I play my main. Picking up a new main in this game is not hard.

IC's have a lot of counters btw.

 

[Llumys]

Hurrah, I want to see your guy's PR explode.

 

[Cyan_]

3 months is a bit much...

 

[Hype]

I never said I would achieve a placing in the top 5. Don't strawman me.

Sorry. You said "tourney ready" and I just used my definition of that. What would you consider tourney ready?

However, we can look at Doc, who is pretty spanking new to the GTA scene and is already what, third? You can say he's good, but I'm just gonna attribute that to Meta Knight. This kind of thing would never ever happen in Melee.

Doc doesn't use MK that much tbh. From what I've seen he uses Diddy and IC's more. He usually only picks MK on some of the "wacky" counter picks where diddy and ICs suck. So no Doc is definitely a skilled player.

None of those tactics are difficult to perform, and they were probably discovered by lesser players before M2K, even though I'd hardly call them discoveries.

I never said they were difficult, I said he made them popular. People watch his videos to see what the optimal thing to do is in each situation. His playstyle seems very thought out in advance, when I see him I feel like he has considered the best option(s) for almost all situations. If M2K does something in a certain sitaution chances are, as an MK main you should do it too. People know this so they watch his videos to learn what to do in certian match ups. That is how he's progressing the metagame.

In a game with close to 40 characters, one character has a quarter of all tournaments won. That's domination. Three Meta Knights in the top 8 means the top had 37% Meta Knight - that's means more than one in three players mained Meta Knight. (and that's assuming you don't count Meta Knight secondaries or counterpicks)..

Marth dominated Melee just as hard if not harder. Ban marth.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201196

And btw, I already was counting secondaries. There were no secondaries in the results thread for genesis. At Apex all the MK players excluding M2K had a secondary or MK was their secondary. Therefore, there would actually be a lower percent on MK's if you factored that in.

Apex results:
1: Ally(Snake)
2: Mew2King(MK)
3: Lain(Ics, DDD)
4: Anti(Snake, MK)
5: Atomsk(DDD)
5: Ksizzle(Lucario, MK)
7: ADHD(Diddy Kong)
7: Anther(Pikachu)

I'd argue that other character boards work even much harder than the MK mains. MK is not fighting any up-hill battles.

Some do, namely the Marth boards. It was Averice who said they are amazing or something like that. I just pointed out that's more of a reason not to ban him.

I legitimately think MK is by a long shot better than every other character, and that's just the truth.

I respectifully disagree, I believe he is the best, but not by much.

You and Ace don't want him banned because you ****ing main the guy. I'm not gonna call bias, but the will to do so is definitely growing.

I'd like to think I'm not bias. It's possible that I am bias on a subconscience level but I'm not trying to act out of self interest. However, there's is definitely a lot of bias on both sides of the debate (that's not directed at anyone in perticular).

 

[Hype]

I think this vote isn't a good idea because the majority is not always right.

There was a time when the majority of people thought that The Earth was the centre of the universe and everything revolved around our planet.

Spoiler

LOL, I couldn't resist a Galileo reference

 

[Mikey7]

At least Melee Marth had exploitable recovery..........MK is UNGIMPABLE except by other MKs. In fact MK is basically the only ungimpable character, ROB is gimpable.

 

[Mikey7]

I think this vote isn't a good idea because the majority is not always right.

There was a time when the majority of people thought that The Earth was the centre of the universe and everything revolved around our planet.

Spoiler

LOL, I couldn't resist a Galileo reference

This is COMPLETELY missing the point of banning MK in Canada. What you're saying is:

More people: we would have more fun without MK

3 people: no, keep MK

lets side with the 3 people?

..

 

[nickcam]

3 months is wayyyy too much. Really i would say after havoc this should be implemented. 18-3 (With the three people being mk mains) is pretty much a landslide. Democracy sucks *** u know having an opinion and stuff lololol.

 

[pastaboy]

well we will see the final results of sbrs desicions before havoc

 

[Hype]

This is COMPLETELY missing the point of banning MK in Canada. What you're saying is:

More people: we would have more fun without MK

3 people: no, keep MK

lets side with the 3 people?

..

Ok fine, it was a bad example.

 

[Cyan_]

you shouldn't compare Melee Marth to MK.

you really shouldn't.

 

[FatalX]

Make official poll for this **** come on come on come on
seriously no joking around lets make this fully official in GTAN, im sure we can all agree that Meta Knight is an unfair character. Hype, you may claim that MK is fair, but you cannot deny that he is easily the best.

hell even Ambrose who seconds MK wants to ban him, even Joe who mains MK doesnt even care whether he gets banned

lets make this **** official come on, id like to see more variety on our PR

 

[Dimmy]

honestly i've been putting time into maining mk since release this ban is gonna screw me over like the other mk mains. I might as well not even use mk at havoc since hes gonna be banned later on might as well start earlier right. If thats the way the community wants to be saved then by all means lets do it, but i hope if u guys choose to do this we won't lose old players but somehow gain new ones.

Anyone have a suggestion on what to main if this goes through? i would need some training too haha.

 

[AvariceX]

For the people who may be stuck looking for a main - I know Ness isn't the best character out there, but since I probably won't be playing him anymore I'll be glad to teach you everything I know about him so that hopefully someone else can rep him. He is not a super-great character, but he is far and away the most underrated character in the game.

 

[Lawlb0t]

Stop trying to manipulate your point and others by using references which don't relate at all. (Hype)

 

[Runawayfire]

I think the public has spoken. That poll in numbers is rediculous, we should not use the sbr as a reason to hold back something we know to be true. All the last 3 public polls ended with pro ban, and this time will be no different, but we all know they will never have an official pro ban status ever.

To all MK mains saying that its the skill of the player and not MK, step it up. Lets see you place now without him. Dropping your main is hard, but you've got at least about a month, and tons of resources to do so. If he isn't so easy to learn, then certainly you should be able to pickup another character as you should have the player skill.
Hell, learn Snake. There goes the theoretical IC dominance theory...

Anyways, whoever is able to hold an mk free tournament before I leave (beggining of sept) is my hero.

 

[Toronto Joe]

this is so stupid LOL

 

[Mikey7]

Sauga outbreak is August 22, hopefully Tameka or Adnan see this thread and go for a ban.

 

[Hype]

you shouldn't compare Melee Marth to MK.

you really shouldn't.

People keep saying that MK is dominating brawl, yet Marth did just as well in melee and that game turned out fine. It's a fair comparison.

Hype, you may claim that MK is fair, but you cannot deny that he is easily the best.

He is the best. I'm not deny that and I never did.

Stop trying to manipulate your point and others by using references which don't relate at all.

Was this directed at me? If so, I was tryign to show that a vote isn't the best way to appraoch this problem becaue the majority is not always right. It doesn't have to relate to brawl becuase I wasn't refering to brawl, I was refering to the notion of a vote.

 

[Toronto Joe]

can like 10people say ban ICs then? cause this democracy thing kicks *** and is flawed as **** lol

 

[-Culex]

I VOTE BAN MK!

Even If It's just in Ontario. MK is 1 ****ed up character. I think I'm "OK" with more then half of the characters in brawl, and when It comes to myself, I use who I'm most comfortable in a tournament match. I do admit I've used MK in tournament matches, ONLY against other MK's because I do feel at a disadvantage. My Samus would NOT be able to handle MK, nor could my CF, no longer my DK. I know that my Samus can put up a fight against some well known Snakes in the GTA, but against MK, there is NOTHING I can do. I'd rather fight Fools Falco with my Samus, then Ace's MK with my Samus. Either way I'm *******ed.

First time I've used MK in tournament matches against NON MK's was this past tournament at Nikos, against KC and Fool. a few times against Ambrose Ice demons as well. because its Brose lol. I Don't use MK Maybe that's why I haven't shown to much tournaments because I know MKs are dominating our scene + work johns lol. I even see that Wario can't even be considered an even match up against MK. I had to watch a great Wario get wrecked by whorenado hold and MK "brokeness", Wario could not do ***. Not because of match up inexperience, but because correct me if I'm wrong, but Wario has no aerial to pass through Nado (I do not use Wario, so I'm not 100% sure). Like I understand people say play for the win, but still, that's more of a reason to get rid of MK. There are no CPs to MK besides a debatable Snake vs MK 50/50 match up. MAYBE even I.C's just cuz of that deadly CG.

For the record, I've played MK's not just on the PR off the PR too, online and offline. Where they have a main character whoever It may be, and I'd rock them with almost my entire cast. Then a month or 2 later of picking up MK, I would get killed or would lose 7/10 times as opposed to usually winning 8/10 times against there once upon a time main. After **** like that, It's proof that MK is really easy to pick up and ****. I'm not saying that It'd be for tournament scene, I'm talking bout it all.
There are MK mains that play brawl that have no other secondary to fall on IF this world wide ban happens, or If they do they ain't gonna be winning as much tourneys as they used to that's for sure.

For the most part MK mains are defending him in the world ban because they KNOW without MK, there probably ****ed.

If M2K loses MK, I'm sure he'll still be placing top 5 with his DDD, but no longer number 1 over and over in tournaments. Other characters will come in and take MK's place, even if it is I.C's. >_<

TOJOE go back to your Fox! He was killer bro. After so much practice against MK with his Fox, not even Joe could beat great MK's and were talking Joe....bro >_> lol.

I ain't saying MK is unbeatable, well actually I am XD. Guys don't just use Ally vs MK's, saying that MK is beatable, cuz Ally is only 1 person and Ally is a robot. Anyway he ruins the metagame for every other character. Metaknights metagame keeps rising, while every one else is worse and slower than a sloth.

YES most of this was random ****, but It's gotta be heard and said!

Oh and yes, ball smacking for all that seen it!....Gi
*clap clap clap clap* Your far to kind sir...get *****!

-Takedown

 

[Anth0ny]

People keep saying that MK is dominating brawl, yet Marth did just as well in melee and that game turned out fine. It's a fair comparison.

Marths dominating Melee from 2003-2007: Ken/Azen
Marths dominating Melee from 2007-: M2K

MKs dominating Brawl from 2008-: M2K, Tyrant, Dojo, DSF, KingAce...

 

[Cyan_]

and at least Marth has a real counter + stages he's bad on

but it's true Marth has been dominating most of Melee, but yeah Anth is right. Same 3 people. and a lot of people will argue that Marth isn't the best character

 

[FatalX]

I think the public has spoken. That poll in numbers is rediculous, we should not use the sbr as a reason to hold back something we know to be true. All the last 3 public polls ended with pro ban, and this time will be no different, but we all know they will never have an official pro ban status ever.

EXACTLYYYY

Why should we go with an "official" ban? We're our own community, we can make our own rules, and clearly the HUGE majority of this community want MK banned.

 

[swordgard]

After going back to the 1st page of the debate:

Ban: 18 - Minus, Nickcam, Mikey, Yuuki, Marik, Pastaboy, Pho, Fatal, Tinman, Iliad, JL, Gi, Anthony, Avarice, Carter, KC, Delorted, Fool

Legal: 4 - Suzaku, Kingace, Hype, Nin

Don't care: 2 - Joe, Phiddlesticks


Lolz, if i missed you or switched you, pleast post

I think the community has spoken. I say MK is banned in GTA tournies after summer.

The community is so far from being right man.

Seriously, whoever wants MK banned should speak with me directly on smn, il destroy your arguments 1 by 1.

Heck, if people want, i can start refuting 90% of the stuff in here because most of you people are biased because you dont like MK simply because you cant beat him.


Did i mention how bad GTA is gonna be with dealing with MKs in usa once you go there but lack MK experience?