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The GtaN Brawl General discussion thread! -Wait, did the title change?

Llumys

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Taken from http://www.nintendoplayers.com/praxis/mkfacts.txt

Interesting facts about MK:

* All of his sword attacks have transcendant priority (the highest in the game- the same as Falco's lasers), and can never clash.

* Metaknight's uair comes out in two frames and ends on frame 13, making it the fastest normal aerial in both start and end time. For comparison, most airdodges end their invulnerability in around 25 frames, and then have additional vulnerable lag frames. Metaknight's uair allows him to force an airdodge and have plenty of frames to punish, making it the ideal juggle move, as well as the ideal momentum cancel (reducing any weaknesses inherent by his weight).

* Metaknight's nair comes out in three frames, autocancels easily, can kill, and can groundlock opponents to start off a dtilt lock chain. The weak hit combos, and it can do 20% if both hitboxes land.

* Metaknight's dair allows for exceptional edgeguarding, and when combined with his multiple jumps, is one of the safest moves in the game, allowing Metaknight to safely aircamp.

* Metaknight's fsmash has virtually no ending lag, making it the ideal unpunishable defensive move.

* Metaknight's dsmash is notoriously fast for a kill move (5 frames).

* Metaknight's SHUTTLE LOOP is arguably the best move in the game. It can be performed lagless out of shield, with a total of five frames of startup and invincibility frames when used on the ground. This allows it to be used to punish almost anything, including Snake's forward tilt, and removes any ability to approach MK. Further, it can be autocancelled in multiple ways (landing on a platform at the peak, pressing jump or B before touching the ground, attacking before touching the ground, or pressing jump or B at the peak and fastfalling), making it an incredibly safe move. As the shuttle loop ends in a glide, it can also go under the stage if edgehogged.


* Metaknight's tornado is the ultimate spacing tool, allowing MK to turn into a ball of priority that beats most aerial attacks, thus removing several spacing options from the opponent and providing MK with a safe getaway option in many situations. It can be autocancelled or used to safely take MK up to a platform, and also functions as a recovery method.


* Metaknight's Dimensional Cape makes MK temporarily invisible and invulnerable, can be used to teleport MK through edgeguards to the ledge or out of dangerous situations. It can be moved while MK is invisible, and extends upon touching the ground, allowing for techniques like Infinite Dimensional Cape (which allows MK to stall indefinitely using the C-stick) or Extended Dimensional Cape (which allows MK to teleport across the stage without usage of the C-stick).


* Metaknight's Drill Rush also turns him into a moving ball of priority, allowing for a recovery that cannot be edgehogged, and can be autocancelled to become incredibly difficult to punish.


* Metaknight's airdodge is the best in the game in terms of both startup speed, amount of invulnerability, and lag frames. His airdodge is one frame faster on startup than anyone else in the cast.
 

Cyan_

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2008
Messages
1,208
i didn't know that about MK's airdodge. wtf was Sakurai thinking

Fatal is right about Snake's ftilt

I wish Orlandu was in this game so he can show you what real OP is :p
 

KingAce

Smash Ace
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Apr 12, 2008
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In the end, yes I agree that all the sellouts are killing the scene by switching to mk. hes broken and will do that to people and the problem is infact people are placing better with mk in their back pocket. however, this scene obviously will be pro-mk ban but think about this.. GTAN is like the major brawl scene in canada and basically we are at the top of the metagame in canada (including holy,swordgard,ally). If we were to play in a US tournament in the future... well im pretty sure no one can argue that we would get absolutely ***** by the mks there.

I still think that a double mk ban in teams is fair, but a ban on the character in singles as well isnt fair. holy, percon, doc, and a bunch of others place high and beat other mks without using mk. honestly, I obviously cant control the outcome of this ban but if you guys were to do it, dont plan to compete with any mk usa players.

edit: and yeah why wouldnt you use the best 2 players. infact the 2 top players should definately be used because they most likely show the highest potential so far for the metagame in those 2 characters. and its obvious that snake at a high lvl vs mk at a high lvl is pretty much even
 

HolyNightmare

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But KingAce is MK gets banned, its also banned in USA. So we wont need to compete with MKS lol, but seriously whenever he gets banned or not. The only thing I really want banned to be honest is double MK, its plaguing our result greatly.
 

KingAce

Smash Ace
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yeah i agree with double mk in teams being sorta broken, but the thing is MK wont get banned in USA for now. did you read nates post lol its our community that he thinks mk is plagueing. so if mk gets banned it will only be for here and texas. other then that the competitive regions in the usa will still be mk legal
 

Tin Man

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Nate what about me? I dropped MK for marth dude. xD

In all honestly, i think ICeys are much worse than MK, but I can see what you mean when you say there's too much focus on one character.
LOLZ HAVE U WATCHED THIS? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDCG6NF10oU

yeah i agree with double mk in teams being sorta broken, but the thing is MK wont get banned in USA for now. did you read nates post lol its our community that he thinks mk is plagueing. so if mk gets banned it will only be for here and texas. other then that the competitive regions in the usa will still be mk legal
If MK wasn't banned everywhere then there is no point to banning him in our community alone because we would be at a disadvantage in matchup experience. If the metagame develops like the anti ban side says it will (silly anti banners) then we will be significantly behind.
 

Iliad

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Actually tbch after watching those vids in Tin-Man's sig. I have to side with nate. I do see MK as a kind of plague to smash lol.

I mean, erix a melee player, hopped into brawl at Niko's OiN2.5 and using MK actually raged someone so hard they nearly struck him in the face. Phil, tbch. You're good enough that you don't NEED mk to ****. Lets be honest.

Only thing i'm kind of worried about. I could see Snake becoming very overplayed and overpowered with a lack of MK and we would just have a brand new character everyone jumps on.

As much as MK dittos are gay, i'm pretty sure there's fewer things more boring on the planet than snake dittos.
 

KingAce

Smash Ace
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Yeah, if mk gets banned im just gonna pick up a couple other chars and play with them lol
 

Hype

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I'm so tempted to argue like 100 things in this thread...I wouldn't even no where to start.

Btw, Carter I left my controller at your house.
 

Tin Man

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Actually tbch after watching those vids in Tin-Man's sig. I have to side with nate. I do see MK as a kind of plague to smash lol.

I mean, erix a melee player, hopped into brawl at Niko's OiN2.5 and using MK actually raged someone so hard they nearly struck him in the face. Phil, tbch. You're good enough that you don't NEED mk to ****. Lets be honest.

Only thing i'm kind of worried about. I could see Snake becoming very overplayed and overpowered with a lack of MK and we would just have a brand new character everyone jumps on.

As much as MK dittos are gay, i'm pretty sure there's fewer things more boring on the planet than snake dittos.
what does tbch mean? my guess is tbch = to be completely honest

LOL man i knew this MK bs would develop. I saw it coming a mile a way.

anyway, you all know what to do...... brawl+ ;)
I wanna try balanced brawl and see how it goes, brawl+ yes but I don't wanna quit brawl, I enjoy the physics (DIing, floatier, etc)
 

Mikey7

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Competing in the US is pretty much on the back end of the list imo, the fact is that our last tourney had 21 people, and our max turnout was 36. Just in December 2008 when we had like what 5 MKs, we got 70 IN THE MIDDLE OF A SNOWSTORM, now 21 IN SUMMER. He will definately get banned at my next tourney for sure. He's killing GTA brawl.

Hes too broken, and fun fact, shuttle loop can kill Wario at 100, and IS the best move in the game.
 

Gichan

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Hype, please argue your points, I wanna read the other side of the MK ban, that way we all have something to think about.
 

Anth0ny

Smash Master
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MK is cancer. What's the cure for cancer? Banning it, of course.

...




Seriously, playing as Snake and GW is 100x funner than playing as/against MK.
 

AvariceX

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Awww I don't get points for never selling out :(

I only used MK in one tournament...and only very recently... I've been using Ness all along and no cool points for me?

:( :( :( :(

Then again I guess I've never really been doing "great". I only really picked up MK to deal with his existence until he gets banned, and only because the last straw was when I got ***** by someone's MK. I'm not going to mention names, but I really felt like I was significantly better than this player; Ness just does not have the tools at all to deal with an MK playing so gay, and sadly neither do most characters.

I was extremely close to quitting Brawl after a recent tourney, and the only thing that kept me around was that I'm actually fairly proficient with MK so I could just use him.

edit: Iliad - don't use the slippery slope argument (Snake dittos, etc.) as it's been dis-proven numerous times by people on both sides of the MK ban debate (even the anti-ban side thinks it's a stupid counter-argument). If I had quick access to one such post I would link it...but I'm not quite that resourceful. Bottom line is Snake has counters.

Also, Mikey I totally agree - I drove 4 hours through that god**** snowstorm and it was worth every minute. It's really hard to justify driving so far out now with the turnout we had at Niko's and at the last Pownz. Unfortunately if I stop coming to tourneys then that's also 3 other people from Chatham who will nearly never make it out to these events since I'm the one who drives 80%+ of the time.
 

KingAce

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lol the coming tournies would be T10, Havoc, and SNES for me
all of them dont have mk banned and summer will be almost over by then =)
so looking at the situation it doesnt really matter to me anyways lmao
and wait mikey why is competing with the USA on the back end of the list?
also im very curious, IC players usually get beaten by mk due to air planking or just mk being gay. if mk is going to get banned in GTAN, why the **** are infinites still allowed for the ICs. lol your gonna see doc and ambrose starting to win a **** load of tournaments and then you guys are gonna ***** about the IC infinites lmao.
anyways on a final note im thinking about getting this venue its only like 200 bucks and its a gym. mk wont be banned either up to you guys whether or not you want to show up. most likely the 29th of august if i get the venue
 

Hype

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Hype, please argue your points, I wanna read the other side of the MK ban, that way we all have something to think about.
I appreciate that you want to see both side of the argument before voting so I'll write something tomorrow. It's gonna be long lol.

Edit: well technically later today

lol your gonna see doc and ambrose starting to win a **** load of tournaments and then you guys are gonna ***** about the IC infinites lmao.
lol, that is exactly what would happen.

anyways on a final note im thinking about getting this venue its only like 200 bucks and its a gym. mk wont be banned either up to you guys whether or not you want to show up. most likely the 29th of august if i get the venue
I'd be there.
 

Violent-nin

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Avarice does get points for never selling out. Then again I've been maining Random since Brawl came out so shouldn't I get points as well lol. :laugh:

Either way I don't think MK should be banned. Maybe it's just my mind-set but if I lose to MK I don't blame it on MK and say he's too broken, I blame myself and the fact I wasn't good enough to beat him this time around....but that's just me

If you get the venue Ace, I'm sure a decent amount of people would show up....probably around the same out we average at tournaments..maybe a bit more since it's near the end of Summer.
.
 

Iliad

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Thing is nin, and with no intentions of sounding belittling, if you were better at the game you would notice the inherent flaws in the system and the fact that MK seems to lack any.

Infact, the ONLY flaw I find in MK is this: He's light.

That's IT. That's a sorry ****ing flaw if it's going to be his only one.

Also, phil, if MK got banned, I would institute the 6grab rule in tourneyplay. It's funny too, because Lain, the best iceys in brawl right now even said "I need that grab to beat MK." he didn't mention any other char, he felt that without infinites MK alone would **** him. If MK gets tourney banned 6 grabs will be more than enough for ICeys. And I would ask Ambrose, Doc, Sauc3, or Jaske to back me up on that.
 

tha_carter

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May 26, 2008
Messages
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ahahah, i came on smashboards just to see if people were still interested in the SNES tourney. If theres not enough interest outside of Ambrose's car, ill just go with him. lol

Theres the link again;
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208490





As far as the MK ban. He's by far the best in the game. No bad stages or matchups. Easiest character to be successful with. And if used gay/properly, alot of his attacks become unpunishable. Also he's been dominate for over a year. No other character even comes close to having these qualities.

Its only a matter of time before everybody picks him up for MK dittos. And then really realizes how good he is; and mains mk. Doesnt matter to me, but if there was a ban... It should be now or never.
 

nickcam

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Jun 24, 2008
Messages
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I would disagree with the points of only IC winning tourneys if MK got banned. I actually think if he got banned alot of people would have a legitimate shot at the first place spot. IC are broken dont get me wrong but atleast you can kill them. If metaknight plays completely safe your not gettign a kill on them. Lagless nado= pro strat. IC have the glaring flaw of nana which makes them beatable, MK's dont even need di cause they dont get hit by kill moves (maybe snakes up tilt) which takes away his only weakness of being light. Ya and personally i could really care less about the US they can keep throwing their money away to MK but im tired of seeing it.

Edit : O if people didnt know i was speaking to holy and ally the only guy who consistently beats all mk is thinking of picking him up. =(
 

PND

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anyways on a final note im thinking about getting this venue its only like 200 bucks and its a gym. mk wont be banned either up to you guys whether or not you want to show up. most likely the 29th of august if i get the venue
A gym? Sweet. The scene's not dead, it's just out of shape.

Treadmill / benchpress MM's, anyone? :laugh:

Although I don't support the ban, I'd be interested in going to an MK banned tourney just to see how it goes.
 

Cyan_

Smash Lord
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May 31, 2008
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One Answer:

Mayleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 

Tin Man

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Phil I would go to ur tourney, but I am going on vacation l8r this year and I'm not 2 sure on the dates and if my cottage will interfere. That is the 2nd last weekend in summer so maybe the last weekend in summer, make it a big event (iunno just throwing it out there).

IC have significant counters, there is Snake and G&W), there is no need for a 6 grab rule, just follow the SBR, and infact, dont put 6 grab rule in our tourneys alone because that's just like banning MK here when he is still legal everywhere else. Bring it to the attention of the SBR and we will deal with that when the time comes, for now let the infinite be legal.

EVERYONE READ THIS GENIUS POST

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7984728&postcount=2820
 

Mikey7

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lol the coming tournies would be T10, Havoc, and SNES for me
all of them dont have mk banned and summer will be almost over by then =)
so looking at the situation it doesnt really matter to me anyways lmao
and wait mikey why is competing with the USA on the back end of the list?
also im very curious, IC players usually get beaten by mk due to air planking or just mk being gay. if mk is going to get banned in GTAN, why the **** are infinites still allowed for the ICs. lol your gonna see doc and ambrose starting to win a **** load of tournaments and then you guys are gonna ***** about the IC infinites lmao.
anyways on a final note im thinking about getting this venue its only like 200 bucks and its a gym. mk wont be banned either up to you guys whether or not you want to show up. most likely the 29th of august if i get the venue
Back end of the list because if we have no scene how can we compete, like I was thinking of quitting...ME lol does that not say something, the only time I've ever missed a casual is because I was not in Mississauga at the time. AVARICE was about to quit, someone who travels from Chatham. Something is wrong, our scene comes first. Also its just really you, percon, ambrose that go to the US, you guys can set up MK legal casuals or something and do mms to get serious matches out of people

Also I was talking about this yesterday to people and I would consider limiting ICs, but then again how on earth do ICs beat a Snake
 

KingAce

Smash Ace
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Apr 12, 2008
Messages
961
Iliad, the only flaw about MK is hes light?
trust me he has more flaws then that and he is beatable. Im kinda confused right now because I just remembered that at nikos SBaN these were the results
1: KingAce (mk)
2: HolyNightmare
3: Swordgard
4: Percon
5: SilverDoc
5: TO Joe(mk)
7: Nickcam
7: Ambrose(ic/mk)
9: Pastaboy
9: Hype(mk)
9: Fool
9: Wolfblade

so, what was agreed as a highly competitive tourny only had 2 mk mains in the top 5, and 2,3,4 were all different characters. off the top of my head I remember seeing percon beat hypes mk, swordgard beating docs mk, holy beating every other mk except me, and doc beating torontojoe without having to do the ditto in the end.

the reason I wouldnt put doc as a mk user is because he hardly uses mk in singles, and the matches that he lost, he used mk lol. he actually wins and does better when he goes diddy/snake in singles.

so i dont get it, how is mk plagueing our scene when they are clearly getting beaten by the better player. tbh, there are really like 4 mks in GTAN (singles) that are placing well, thats like hype, ambrose, tojoe, and me. other then that, i dont see how mk is plagueing our scene other then the fact that double mk is too broken in doubles and needs to be banned.
 

Sanu

Smash Champion
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Dec 22, 2005
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haha kingace

too late cuz

pro-ban is winning the poll
 

KingAce

Smash Ace
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lol yeah i guess but still they need 2/3 of the people for pro ban for mk to actually get banned =)
its only at 53% right now still got another 13% to go but I dont think thatll happen
 

pastaboy

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agreed. but hype and ambrose usually dont place that low. they are usually all competing for the top 5 spots.
plus i dont know if we should count swordgard and holy as our scene, even though holy comes to all our tournies
 

Sanu

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lol yeah i guess but still they need 2/3 of the people for pro ban for mk to actually get banned =)
its only at 53% right now still got another 13% to go but I dont think thatll happen
Oh, I had no idea haha.
 

KingAce

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Messages
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im just giving an example of players who know how to beat mk, and have been consistently doing it for like.. ever? I actually dont think holy has lost a set to a mk other than me in canada lol.
although hype and ambrose are 2 players that are like back and forth. one tourny theyll be top 3-5, but the next like 7th or 9th lol. I wouldnt count ambrose as a mk main though, since he uses a lot of ICs in singles and honestly ive seen him go mk and lose, but go ICs and do way better or win.
 

pastaboy

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st catharines, ontario
ye the results from that one pownz tourny where holy wasnt present rly showed what our scene results look like.
pownz june 27th
1: King Ace
2: Doc
3: Hype
4: Percon
5: Minus
5: Ambrose

4/6 main or secondary mk. now with to joe in the mix, there will be more mks in top 5.
i personally don't care if mk gets banned or not, less snakes.
 

Runawayfire

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Jan 17, 2006
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Toronto
The time when all of this is a problem is when I and tons of others are thinking of either picking up mk again for backpocket use, or quiting. Because I look at this characters defensive options, and its really rediculous. MK gives you the ability to say " If I really want to play this gay, I can win this match"

If MK plank/air planks. Very little people can catch him at all. Almost every single one of my losses to MK has been tornado'ed or defensively stalled out of me, usually even both. And it happens on the higher spectrum of play too. While Joe was stalling me out at GI's, Dojo was stalling out Dehf.

Why in the world would I continue to want to not play mk, and just get stalled, tornado'd and infinite grabbed all day? Before it seemed that we all enjoyed out playing each other, now its just out gaying each other. Here come the MK dittos.
 

Mikey7

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The top 5 isnt the problem - its the bottom, below this top 5. 21 entrants TWENTY-ONE. wtf is that, where are the 50 man tournies...I'm never expecting to place top 5 anymore, I just want to have enjoyable matches......playing against MK isnt enjoyable lol. Playing against a character that literally has an answer for each way I can attack isn't fun at all.

And you know me and MK lol, me and you in bracket is like 1-1 or 1-2? It really used to be a good matchup for me, but now MK is too good, his brokenness fully getting exploited by Hype, you, Joe, Doc
 

KingAce

Smash Ace
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Apr 12, 2008
Messages
961
why dont we just ban mk if the SBR says to ban it lol. and nate i swear most of your losses have been to ICs, the only mk that ive watch you lose to is tojoe air planking you (atleast recently)
 
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