The Future of Melee

[WatchYourRadar]

Hey guys! I want to start off this post by saying that I am new to this community, and I think that I see an issue on the horizon that may end up being a problem. I think that maybe a lot of the older stays know this problem, but don't see the solution. The problem is the continuation of Melee. This game is great, I think we all understand that. I gave up playing Halo (I used to go to MLGs) to play this game. The issue at hand is that I am not very good at this game. I have only been playing for a few months and I am making huge strides, but I am overlooked. Whether or not you guys realize it, the scrubs are the future of this game. I am disrespected quite often, and not intentionally even, just because I am not as good as the people I play with. I am sure other scrubs feel the same way about this. I have some solutions to this problem that I want to throw out there, and I want everyone to add on.

1) Be humble. It is very frustrating when I can't get any advice on my playing. Or when I actually do something good and it gets chalked up to luck immediately. Or when I don't get to play as many matches simply because I am not as good as everyone else. I understand that I am not very good at this game, and not that much fun to play. That said, show some humility and sink down to my level. Help me understand the game, offer me solid advice, and maybe some day in the near future I will be fun to play against. That transitions well into my second point.

2) Give us a chance. Far too often we scrubs sit around at a tournament twiddling our thumbs because we don't know what to do. I have only been to one tournament, and this was my experience. Because smash is an in person activity, people make their friends and play their friends. Its tough to get games in with people when you only know a couple people in the venue. PLAY WITH US. I know its hard since you want to play other good people, but if you care about the growth of the community, than play with us in more than just money matches. One of the greatest things I have ever seen was (I forget the tournament ) Hungrybox offering money matches with all the money going to his choir or something like that. That was an amazing thing that I would have loved to participate in. People are very charitable at times, and I would have gladly donated money for that cause rather than the pocket of another person. The community will grow stagnant if the best players only play with eachother, or for money. We scrubs need a chance to play and grow. I understand that time is a limiting factor too, but a good effort to play someone new each tournament will go a long way.

3) Teach and mentor us. This is sort of a combination of the previous 2 points. We are never going to get better on our own. I have made great strides. But the problem I am having is that I can't really get solid advice from the person I play with the most. However, I get great advice from someone I met out of state that I communicate with regularly. That seems a little off to me. So I offer a solution. To good players: offer you scrubs solid information that is easily usable. Don't be the character specific message boards that offer over general information. Offer advice custom tailored to that person. We all play differently, and we all have different ceilings on tech skill. Its incredibly frustrating when the only advice I get is "Don't do that, it will never work in tournament." Give me alternatives or I don't know what I am going to do! To scrubs: Pay attention, and show some dang humility to listen. I know from playing Halo that it is incredibly frustrating when you give someone some information and they blow it off. Try what you are told and practice it.

Sorry for the Wall O' Text, but I just see this being an issue. I want this community to be an amazing experience for all of us. So I challenge you older, more seasoned vets. Find some scrubs and show them the amazing experience that is melee. Teach them, and show them how much fun it can be. Try and find a way for them to get to tournaments. The community won't expand itself, it is up to everyone to be respectful of each other to show off how good the smash community is. I am done now, and wrote this after an all nighter studying for a final. Go easy on me, and thanks for being an awesome community

 

[MasterShake]

I always want people to give me advice.

The issue is that it is awkward, and the person giving advice is not sure whether the person he is playing will take it as an insult or not receive it well, whatever the reason.

Therefore, it is ultimately up to the person wanting advice to ask the other player: Hey, can you give me some advice on those games we just played?

And, more times than not, they will be happy to oblige.

 

[WatchYourRadar]

I always want people to give me advice.

The issue is that it is awkward, and the person giving advice is not sure whether the person he is playing will take it as an insult or not receive it well, whatever the reason.

Therefore, it is ultimately up to the person wanting advice to ask the other player: Hey, can you give me some advice on those games we just played?

And, more times than not, they will be happy to oblige.

That is why humility from both parties is so important. The scrub needs to realize they are a scrub and that anything said is beneficial. It was hard for me to come to that, but now I realize that anything that is said can only be beneficial to me you are right though

 

[Jolteon]

I think the thing that you are overlooking is that everyone is a scrub at one point or another, it's not like people don't understand how you feel.

 

[WatchYourRadar]

I think the thing that you are overlooking is that everyone is a scrub at one point or another, it's not like people don't understand how you feel.

I may overlook that, however, it feels as if people always tell me everyone was there once, it gets better, but then act like it just happens overnight and without any assistance. Its like there is some elite club that once you get to a certain skill level you can talk down to people. I don't like that at all, and it makes me feel left out. If everyone still felt that way, than they would be way more willing to help out more. Maybe my situation is just specialized though. I don't know, thats why I hope to hear more stuff

 

[_wzrd]

I concur. It was really hard getting into this at first, but my community welcomed me, and egged me on. Though my community is an island away, we communicate semi regularly, & when I play them I can usually get some advice if I ask for it.

Don't be afraid to ask ANY players for friendlies, most guys are pretty nice about it & don't mind playing a noob and offering them some friendly advice. Some people are incapable of giving good advice, so use your discretion and don't be offended if some players refuse to give it to you.

I know people seem to stay in there groups, which can be true, but I've never been turned away from a friendly match with someone, unless they were preparing specifically for a big match or something, which is respectable.

Good luck, Have fun & welcome to the best competitive game I've ever played.

 

[UltimateHaxor123]

lol i'm a scrub too and i 100% agree with this :D

 

[SSBMLahti]

I agree with this thread, but this also applies to within the forums itself. I find many of my questions ignored and unanswered all the time, especially in the Falco forums, which just pisses me off. It's like if you have a low post count or are not a known player you're pushed aside like some piece of trash. It's ridiculous.

But I guess I do it to myself, my posts may seem like I'm trolling, but that's just how I talk...

 

[Faithkeeper]

One thing I was told that helped me a lot was to not wait for people playing a game to stop what they are doing and look around for other people to play with. If people are playing friendlies, walk up to them and ask them if you can get in next round. I've never had anyone say no.

One thing I would do after all of my pools matches ( I never made it to bracket) was ask whoever beat me (I always lost) for advice. Everyone would try. Maybe they weren't paying that close attention, but everyone made an effort to help, even if it's telling you to work on your tech skill. I mean, nobody likes hearing that you should just go practice your lcancels until you can do them for like 5 mins straight without messing up, but sometimes that's what needs to be done.

my 2 cents.

 

[LLDL]

Keep this in perspective.

1. We are humble. You are probably playing with intermediate level players. Those are the guys who only want to play with each other. If you feel like they are not humble, you're trying to play with the wrong crowd.

2. If you don't get to play as often as everyone else, it's your own fault. Everyone has equal opportunity. You're probably being a push over. You have to assert yourself, plug in the controller and say can I get next after this set. Then, when it's over, start to select your character. It's that easy. Show some backbone, you make it sound as if you're timidly asking to play and they say no. I don't blame them. I wouldn't want to play with someone who doesn't really want to play.

3. Returns to number 1. Play with the right players.

 

[Grinin]

I cant really relate to this...6 months of playing the game under my belt and I already have smashers at my house every friday...xD

I started playing, improved my techs skill on my own then went to my first tournament and just talked to everyone I could. Now I can keep up with some players who were four stocking me a few months ago and I get to play just as much as any veteran player for the most part, and everyone is really nice and welcomed me into the scene fairly quickly. I guess part of this can be attributed to the relatively small melee scene here, but I guess all I can say is don't be shy or afraid to get your name out there, invite people to play at you place, or ask for help or advice on your game.

lol except darkrain, the one time I played him he pretty much just destroyed me then told me stuff I already knew. xD

 

[Divinokage]

Well that's how I did it.. when I was a noob I used to push all the players better than me to play me, that's all there is to it. The better players have no reason to play with you, you have much more reason to play with them. As for the advice part, well that's kinda hard to do since everyone is different. I personally suck at giving advice so I don't do it. However I do give some truthes which helps can help you mentally in the future. =) I like to be inspiring.

 

[CableCho57]

dont be afraid to ask dude!
sure people might **** you in matches and laugh at you (I remember when i started playing this guy was like, "LOL he plays like i did two years ago") but if ask for advice youre bound to get some

after a few friendlies, heck in even DURING a tournament (bc I knew I was going to lose) I asked DEHF and lovage for some spacies advice and they kindly gave me a lot of good insights and cool tactics

 

[TheGoat]

It is hard to get into the competitive community because of the huge skill gap, but you really have to be assertive. Go in and ask to join a group playing, that's what I did. Also try to meet new people. Our community for the most part is full of cool people, so don't be too shy.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

Not everyone is able to give constructive advice all the time. The number one way to get better is by playing a lot.

It is not "tough to get games in with people when you only know a couple people in the venue." I go up to complete strangers all the time and say "Can I get next?" It's as simple as that.

 

[Jolteon]

I may overlook that, however, it feels as if people always tell me everyone was there once, it gets better, but then act like it just happens overnight and without any assistance. Its like there is some elite club that once you get to a certain skill level you can talk down to people. I don't like that at all, and it makes me feel left out. If everyone still felt that way, than they would be way more willing to help out more. Maybe my situation is just specialized though. I don't know, thats why I hope to hear more stuff

I haven't met anyone who thinks you can just get better over night like that.

Also I can't speak for everyone, but most good players are in what seems like an "elite club" because they are vets in the community who know each other well, and thus are good friends. Skill is irrelevant, if you feel they're left out just try to befriend them, rather than feel like you're forced to get good to be recognised by them.

High skill level=/=rights to be a **** to people. That just makes them a douche. Healthy trash talk is exempt and I don't see why you have to be a skilled player in order to do that.

You can't expect them to just lay everything out on a silver platter, if you want help, you can just ask them.

 

[JPeGImage]

I always want people to give me advice.

Dont suck

. . . and know your matchup numbers, brah!

Spoiler

. . . slight marth!!!! . . . . =D

There ya go! happy?

 

[azianraven]

No new player or any player for that matter should feel intimidated or inferior to the smash community.

Almost every smasher is friendly and willing to help if you just ask. This isn't halo.

 

[Mahone]

I love playing with new players, of course its not as fun as playing people your level, but i enjoy teaching them, and i can relate to how they feel.

I would like to point out, however, that the problem is definitely both ways.....

You sound like you are a great guy who wouldn't have this problem, but new players rarely take advantage of my help for the following reasons....

1. I play jiggygaystupid****faceishouldgokillmyselfforenjoyingapartofthisgameyoudon't. I mean, it doesn't matter that i just 4 stocked you with all my secondaries right? I play jigglypuff and you main falcon, so you can't get any advice from me!

But seriously, if you are a scrub, don't worry about finding someone who has the same main as you, its not as important as finding someone who is a good teacher and willing to help. The main two people who taught me play Marth and Doc, but I learned more about puff from them than i have from any puff main.

2. I'm not a pro. I sat there helping some scrubs for like an hour and then a pro (who i will not name, but he is an ******* imo) arrived at the tournament and the scrubs flocked to him, just so that they could play him, but of course it was money matches only and they just got jv5d without learning anything.

I mean i get it, I love playing pros too, even if they **** you its a lot of fun, but it goes back to the point i made earlier, skill is not as important as willingness to help is, you will get a lot more from playing with a good teacher than playing with a much better player.

I just wanted to point out some things scrubs can do, but i definitely agree that the problem lies mosty on the non-scrubs end.

 

[P.C. Jona]

ask for advice

youll get it

period

its very simple

i hate when people act like everyone hates them

theyre all quiet and ish and they keep to themselves

ask some freakin questions

were playing the same game

we were in the same position at one point

dont expect us to just start handing out advice without you asking for it

and if someone gives you a hard time

the person is a f@g and you should ignore anything they say

i hate ******* like that

 

[OkamiBW]

It's really hard, but yeah, as several have said, it really helps to ask. Ask what you're doing wrong or what you could do to do better. Ask to get more games with people. Ask people not to be high and mighty on their horses.

I have a few people who I've been trying to train recently in Arizona. There's two people in particular who I see who are really learning a lot. The main attribute that they have is that they never say no to playing. They'll ask to play often. And when I shoot them texts, they'll almost always answer, "Sure, I'll play for a couple hours." And seeing their dedication, I want to help them and iron out their bad habits. And they are improving greatly for it.

On the other hand, when someone doesn't show that drive to learn and play, I sometimes ask myself, "What will you do with my advice?" Basically my point is that, if anyone shows that they want to learn and that they want to play; they'll get the advice, they'll get better, and they'll learn. So, my advice would be, to those of you who are unknown and want advice, but don't know how to really ask for it, show people that you want to play and that you want to get better. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. And the more your playstyle squeaks, the more people will help you fix it.

Spoiler

That was worded quite awkwardly, but I hope people understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[Zodiac]

It really depends on your region, here in oregon for example we have very few elitist jack-***'s that will disregard noobs cause they are not good. But there is a point where someone gets so good that it is boring to play anyone but the people who give them a challenge I understand that feeling pretty well. Not because im the best in the world (cause im not lol) but because for five years I ***** everyone I ever played, I maybe lost 3 or 4 matches in the course of 3 years. I played against a somewhat varied group of people to, I never lost. So I stopped playing for like a year, then I found smashboards, found good players. and actually lost a few haha XD. Then I went to a tournament and placed last yaaay.

 

[N64]

+1 to PC Jona's post

Most smashers I've met are easygoing enough that if you ask them to play, they'll play, and if you ask them for advice, they'll give you advice. Others are jerks and I doubt they'll change. It's pretty easy to differentiate the two after talking to them for a minute or two.

You just gotta get out there and push for stuff. Keep asking people to play at tourneys, keep asking for advice while playing, get a conversation going, etc.

 

[DrkRoxas]

Maybe my personal experience helps a little here.

I'm not from the USA, I started to play in Vzla, and I have the luck that I was friends with some of the very good-best players of the city and then I wanted to start to play, they began teaching me and introduced me to the people they played who were als overy good and even one of the bests in the country.
Everytime I went to play they ***** me, but playing with them helped me a lot, and putting aside the advices they gave me, the sole fact of playing them helped a lot.

I came here this month and one of my friends came living here a while ago, and is very good at melee himself, he took me to a tournament to play the people here to help me train, every single people I met played with me with no problems at all, they laughed, they gave me advice, and they were very open.

bottom line is that I know that it is a little scary to ask them, but don't be afraid, the worst that can happen is getting a no. lol

 

[Pr0jecT]

If I see someone make a mistake over and over and I'm punishing them for it. I tell them and throw in my 2 cents.


Someone ****** you a certain way? Ask what they are doing or if there is anything that can be done to not be ***** that way.

You can't be shy, if you're outgoing and seeking advice, people will give it to you. Just be sure to doublecheck everything you hear with someone else. I've seen some people give awful advice :|

 

[KAOSTAR]

I just thought about something....

Its going to get harder and harder to get ppl into this community because well, the large tech skill requirement thats placed on simply the basics. The longer and longer ppl wait the farther and farther behind they will be in the metagame.

Like trying to catch up on 10 years worth of melee is harder than catching up on 5.

hopefully ppl will just get better faster since they will be exposed to more from the beginning.


But to whoever made this thread-yea valid concerns. My exp from this comm is that ppl are willing to help as long as you show the drive to improve. Ask questions and like u said...be humble. Its best to play with somebody around your skill level, and have another person who is better than both of you. that way u can work on the **** that guy teaches you. I think that Im going to make more of an effort to play with players who are new just to get them better at the game.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

I remember my first small tourney, Aftershock in MD. After Finals were well and done with, and everyone went on to play their friendlies, I stood there feeling awkward about what to do next. I (being a guy that only won one set) very awkwardly asked Chinesahh for some help, since we were both Falco mains as far as I remember. So we sat down on Time inf. FD, both Falco, and I showed him my flashiest techskill, and he went off of that. After about 10 minutes of playing, he started telling me what the strengths and weaknesses of my playing style were, things that I was doing that could easily be punished or read, and told me my character's general strengths and weaknesses, and how to put those into my playing style without altering the way I play entirely.

TL;DR: Chinesahh gave me some damn good advice, made it simple, wasn't a **** about it, and more people need to be like that.

 

[DrkRoxas]

I think that Im going to make more of an effort to play with players who are new just to get them better at the game.

Im not like the best player and I still have A LOT to learn, in fact I still consider myself as a n00b in comparison to other players, but I love when I can teach someone who's just entering the scene, teach them what I already know, and play with them to give them practice, and I think a lot of people love to teach and play with starters, specially when you see the enthusiasm.

More people playing is better for all of us

 

[❀W.E.M.P.❀]

Move to Pittsburgh, PA

Friendlist guys in the world, good mentors, and great life friends.

They'll make you **** also.

 

[P.C. Jona]

They'll make you **** also.

sounds like great friends

leading you to a life of crime

....





















where do i sign up ?

 

[DrkRoxas]

They'll make you **** also.

we're really in the need of a good comunity of rapists, to start ****** errbody out there

 

[bertbusdriver]

hide your kids, hide your wife.

most ppl are mad helpful if you ask them for advice after a match or during friendlies. also, i've never had a problem getting friendlies at smashfests/tournies.

 

[Cactuar]

Honestly, when randoms sit down and play me in friendlies, I just go on autopilot and practice specific stuff unless they actually ask me for advice. I actually really like giving advice, but unless you ask me for it, I'm not going to presume and start offering it.

 

[Divinokage]

we're really in the need of a good comunity of rapists, to start ****** errbody out there

Nah need more warriors in smash community =)

 

[CableCho57]

Honestly, when randoms sit down and play me in friendlies, I just go on autopilot and practice specific stuff unless they actually ask me for advice. I actually really like giving advice, but unless you ask me for it, I'm not going to presume and start offering it.

I remember after a tourney set where I ***** this dude, I started giving him some advice, very kindly I might add, on some of his bad habits and what to look out for, but I can tell he was helllllla salty about it and his facial expression was telling me "Did I ask for your help? go screw yourself." lol

so yeah now I only give advice when asked hahaha

 

[Divinokage]

I remember after a tourney set where I ***** this dude, I started giving him some advice, very kindly I might add, on some of his bad habits and what to look out for, but I can tell he was helllllla salty about it and his facial expression was telling me "Did I ask for your help? go screw yourself." lol

so yeah now I only give advice when asked hahaha

When you lose, your ego takes a good shot. Someone like that cannot be good. =) Suck it up and continue to improve! Non-stop potential, rawr!

 

[Dark Sonic]

http://forums.majorleaguegaming.com/topic/207452-throwback-events/

Everyone should suggest that melee be included on the MLG circut as a "throwback" event

Please be civil about it though.

 

[metalreflectslime]

502 Gateway Error

 

[metalreflectslime]

I remember after a tourney set where I ***** this dude, I started giving him some advice, very kindly I might add, on some of his bad habits and what to look out for, but I can tell he was helllllla salty about it and his facial expression was telling me "Did I ask for your help? go screw yourself." lol

so yeah now I only give advice when asked hahaha

What tournament was this?

 

[DrkRoxas]

so yeah now I only give advice when asked hahaha

Totally true, some people just go and get pissed if you give them advice, that's why I only do it without asking if they're my friends and I know them, but with randoms not the way.

Whenever I want advice I just ask for it, being ***** is not bad, if you suck it up it can be a very good learning experience.