The Full Smash 64 Learning Curve (MASSIVE UPDATES)

[DMoogle]

i am good, i played u a few times and wasnt impressed

I'd be surprised if Tigerbombz didn't 4-/5-stock you every time.

 

[Zen Yore]

i am good, i played u a few times and wasnt impressed

huh
thats not funny gav

 

[Fireblaster]

i am good, i played u a few times and wasnt impressed

*cue laughtrack*

 

[T1g3rbombz]

how did you play me wen i dnt even play anymore? WHO IS U?

and yes i could be 6a! better then most...get fuked up by boom. sounds about right

 

[novakane]

how did you play me wen i dnt even play anymore? WHO IS U?

and yes i could be 6a! better then most...get fuked up by boom. sounds about right

i played u online a few months ago and u barely beat me, i even have a video

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I am good, I played you a few times and wasn't impressed

...why are all of your posts flame based.

 

[MattNF]

...why are all of your posts flame based.

why are you feeding the troll

 

[T1g3rbombz]

i played u online a few months ago and u barely beat me, i even have a video

funny cuz i havnt played in over a year...send me the link then so i can see

 

[T1g3rbombz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UVdcewZ5bI
so apparently thats me....tell me what you thinkk ppl from swf

 

[Dajayman]

I have probably dropeed a couple notches since I havent't played in so long. It's tough not having a computer to play online and being in an area with zero interest in 64 console.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UVdcewZ5bI
so apparently thats me....tell me what you thinkk ppl from swf

I watched the first 30 seconds of the match, and its clearly not you at all, Hell it looks like my crappy fox from early 2007.

 

[killa k]

Probably some guy that was like "LOLOLOL IM TIGERBOMBZ!". Funny thing is that this guy won anyway.

 

[SSB64-Jel]

The delay thats in online smash 64 can really hurt others who play on the N64, maybe the ones that play online only would have a hard time playing on 64 due to haveing no delay in the game or being use to playing with delay. I'm a much better player on 64 then online even ask Kefit .

 

[NixxxoN]

Tigerbombz told me once that he doesnt like to try. But one thing is not trying and the other is being a noob.
Lol dumb video.

 

[JaimeHR]

That can't be Tigerbombz unless he hates edge guarding.

Sad face, the video was removed but BEEF!Man! was able to watch it before it was taken down.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

That can't be Tigerbombz unless he hates edge guarding.

Sad face, the video was removed but BEEF!Man! was able to watch it before it was taken down.

It's cause you got the BEEF!

^_^

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

why are you feeding the troll

This is smashboards

I'm used to trolls

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

used to feeding them??

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

also this pranked pink name is sorta HOMO

 

[lern2zhelm]

This is a very interesting hierarchy, and pretty much sums it all up in my opinion. I've been lurking this forum for about a week now, and I thought it about time that I finally post.

I currently am stuck on level 3b, as your description entails, and I can't seem to get any better. My friend showed me SSB64 about 2 weeks ago, and I've been hooked ever since. Actually, the word I would use is ADDICTED. I play anywhere from 4-7 hours a day, and when I'm not playing, I'm either on here reading these threads on technique, over at YouTube watching Isai's vids, and s2j's tutorials on advanced techniques.

Currently, I play as Pikachu(of course, after reading the tier list and watching a couple videos) and am on my 15th day playing this game. Myself, as well as probably ALL of you, I can't stand losing, especially at video games. My friend(the one who got me hooked) is at a level not really described in here, but personally I would rate him 3b as well. Despite that, he still beats me about 80% of the time, and I've come here for some help ):

He plays as Kirby for his main character, but still is proficient with any other(he's been playing for about a year). I can beat him when he's any other character, but when he plays as Kirby, it's so cheap that I can't even move. From the start of the game, he'll over-A constantly, right until he gets you off the edge, then downkick for a quick kill. He grabs when you block his over-A with a shield, and will shield-roll about 99% of the time when you're above him. No advanced techniques used whatsoever, unless you deem edgeguard an advanced technique. Also, will always defend(stay in one spot and wait for you to come to him), NO exceptions.

I don't expect you to read all of that, but what I do wonder is, how do I reach the next level without trial and error? (He's the only person I can play against at any time, so getting better just by playing him over and over would probably give me a brain tumor)



tl;dr: Currently at level 3b, what techniques should I practice most to 'level up'?

edit: I play console, and can upload a video if anybody is interesting in helping me.

 

[Fireblaster]

From the start of the game, he'll over-A constantly, right until he gets you off the edge,

Learn to tech. Kirby's Fsmash (Forward Smash) over and over isn't a combo

then downkick for a quick kill.

Don't recover predictably or he'll get you

He grabs when you block his over-A with a shield,

Unless you end up behind him when his Dair (Down Air) hits you, you can roll away from kirby

and will shield-roll about 99% of the time when you're above him.

If you predict that he'll roll in a direction, then punish him for it. Don't blindly attack him where he is if you know he's gonna be somewhere else.

No advanced techniques used whatsoever, unless you deem edgeguard an advanced technique. Also, will always defend(stay in one spot and wait for you to come to him), NO exceptions.

Which character do you use? Unless it's someone like falcon, approaching a camping kirby usually isn't a problem.

I don't expect you to read all of that, but what I do wonder is, how do I reach the next level without trial and error? (He's the only person I can play against at any time, so getting better just by playing him over and over would probably give me a brain tumor)



tl;dr: Currently at level 3b, what techniques should I practice most to 'level up'?

edit: I play console, and can upload a video if anybody is interesting in helping me.

I'd suggest you download pj64k and start playing online. You could buy a n64->usb adapter for your controller or you could buy some pc logitech controller that resembles a ps2 controller. Even a 360 wired controller will work. Then play against others online and really learn how the game is played.

 

[lern2zhelm]

Holy hell, that was fast. Thank you for getting back to me. I'll do my best and try to explain further, but if that gets too tedious to read, I'll pursue the online route.

1) Actually, everything that he does isn't a combo at all, he just knows the lag times so well that he times single attacks to the point where moving is next to impossible(granted, he has very little knowledge of advanced tech, as do I.) Teching is just Z canceling after getting attacked right? I have been trying it, but to no avail. How long does this usually take to learn fluently? Is it smarter to roll towards or away?

2) We usually play on Hyrule, and I get nailed off of the right side. Since I use Pikachu, recovering in different ways is pretty limited. Granted, he usually floats at the top of the tent and downkicks from there. I try quicking under the tent and into the corner, but thats a low success rate for me.

3) Smoke2joints recently released a new video on guaranteed grabs, and to me this dilemma seems like a guaranteed grab for Kirby as well. Its probably not the case, but I'm nub still.

4) I've actually started to do that(predicting right or left rolls, and F/Bairing him depending on the direction), but Z cancel is still a bit tricky for me. I'll roast him for about +60% if I get him once, then throw combos and whatnot, but kill moves are such a pain to get off on him that he'll be running around with 220% and I'll have died already with only 80~100%.

5) I play as Pikachu, and have only been doing so for about a week(total gameplay is around 2 weeks, started with Ness). He's been playing every day for over a year, so he can judge pretty well where I will end up(usually camps under/over tent). As I have seen with the Isai videos, Uair and Fair seem the best approach to starting a combo with Pikachu, but then again at my level would it be better to take a different approach?


Lastly, playing online is not a problem, I just have a couple questions/speculations regarding it;

Is there any lag or networking issues usually, if so, how different is it from console play?
Would there be anybody at my level to practice with?
If so, what has been found to be the best 64->usb converter?


I'd probably still play regardless, but given my current situation, getting continuously roasted and not knowing a counter gets pretty annoying.

ps: Anybody use Vent/IRC/MSN/AIM to chat while playing online, or does pj64k have communication built in?

Again, thanks for your feedback, I didn't expect you to be so fast.
~z

 

[Daedatheus]

Since I use Pikachu, recovering in different ways is pretty limited.

Pikachu has the least limited recovery of all the characters in this game.

You can define where you go with your 2nd jump.

You can use only the first "zap" of pika's up+b in a certain direction, say towards the ledge so you quickly grab it.

You can use both "zaps" and modify the direction of each to ANY possible direction. You can go down and up, up and forward, back and forth, you name it. Switch up your recovery pattern, observe what he does to predict where you'll be. Aim for the ledge sometimes.

 

[infernovia]

Since I use Pikachu, recovering in different ways is pretty limited

Uh no. No it isn't. Pika is one of the hardest chars to edgeguard. That said, you playing for only two weeks might be doing something.

Z cancelling is when you use an aerial and then press z when you land. Easiest one to see is link. Hop and press down a, when he lands, he should make a shockwave and you will get a hell of lag. Now press z before you land and you will remove that landing lag and be able to move right after. You just need to do this after EACH aerial.

Teching is when you get slammed to the ground by a dair or something and you press z before you hit it so you can roll right away.

Against ftilt, just do a lot of shorthop aerial (which is a really low jump done by letting go of the jump button really fast, like a tap) approach. Also, if you wanna be lucky, just go for grabs.

Is there any lag or networking issues usually, if so, how different is it from console play?

There is lagging and you won't be able to do a lot of just frame stuff and some things like fox's shine tech chase will be harder.

Would there be anybody at my level to practice with?

I can run you through the basics.

Anybody use Vent/IRC/MSN/AIM to chat while playing online, or does pj64k have communication built in?

I use aim but kaillera has the ability to communicate. The current server is god-weapon but I hear they might close down nintendo emulators in that server.

 

[ballin4life]

Also you probably wanna utilt because it can combo into itself a few times and then into an aerial for like 50% damage. Although kirby's fsmash is fast, it still has lag so make him miss with it and punish him. Also remember grabs are really powerful, they will kill kirby at low percents. Try to BAIT him into fsmashing so that you can either utilt him or grab in the lag time. Remember that you can short hop to dodge his fsmash and counterattack rather than shielding.

There's no way he should be living to 220% as kirby ever. Bair/nair/dair will kill him long before that, and grabs even sooner.

Also edgeguarding kirby is kinda difficult if he can go high, but if he has to use his up b then you can always hit him out of it with fsmash/bair/uair for a kill.

It also sounds like you need to play in the air more. Most of your approach attacks should be aerials, and MAKE SURE YOU Z CANCEL EVERY MOVE LIKE SERIOUSLY THIS MAKES YOU 100X BETTER.

So yeah practice more and try to bait him more into doing laggy moves that you can punish. It sounds like you know his style pretty well, so PREDICT what he's gonna do and counter it.

Once you can beat your friend teach him to z cancel and utilt with kirby so you'll have more of a challenge.

 

[asianaussie]

Oh god maplestory

Play online, that's how you'll get better. You're already watching Isai and you seem to have picked a character who Isai plays with distinction. Download the emulator (Project64k or Mupen64k), get on a server, and start playing. You'll get better in no time. Don't worry about playing people of similar level - the best way is to play much better players and try to imitate their more generic combos and predictions.

 

[lern2zhelm]

Wow, again with the quick response! Thanks to all who have replied with advice, it seriously helps and is getting me to think. infernovia, you posted the gist of it so I'll reply to your post;

Uh no. No it isn't. Pika is one of the hardest chars to edgeguard. That said, you playing for only two weeks might be doing something.

Well, what I meant was, my aim is off sometimes. I picked Pikachu for a number of reasons, but one major point is that he can be inches away from death and still recover(if used properly)

Z cancelling is when you use an aerial and then press z when you land. Easiest one to see is link. Hop and press down a, when he lands, he should make a shockwave and you will get a hell of lag. Now press z before you land and you will remove that landing lag and be able to move right after. You just need to do this after EACH aerial.

I know what it is and how to do it, but Z canceling hasn't become habit yet, I'm still in the introductory phase of all these techniques. We play on a cheap 60-inch widescreen(ie: about 1/8 of a second of lag), which makes techniques like this a bit hard to pull off because of the time offset. I know, I have a TV with no lag, but I wreck him so hard with that TV that he absolutely refuses to play on that one now, saying "I'm used to this TV, you're used to that one. I don't see why we gotta play by your rules since its my game" (lol he mad)

Teching is when you get slammed to the ground by a dair or something and you press z before you hit it so you can roll right away.

So tap Z and a direction to roll at the same time just like standing rolls?

Against ftilt, just do a lot of shorthop aerial (which is a really low jump done by letting go of the jump button really fast, like a tap) approach. Also, if you wanna be lucky, just go for grabs.

I'm getting a bit better at shorthops, but when I miss it and hold the c-button too long, I get u-tilted and pay dearly for it. Also, I used grabs when it's appropriate, or at least try to. I figure that getting GOOD at this game is knowing when and how to use moves, and grabbing seems like its a rare occasion since most attacks/gameplay is aerial.

I can run you through the basics.

That sounds like a good idea, I wouldn't mind a few extra pointers, or a sparring buddy

I use aim but kaillera has the ability to communicate. The current server is god-weapon but I hear they might close down nintendo emulators in that server.

I'll figure all the online stuff out tomorrow/later on today, I have class at 9est so I'm way past my bedtime lul. I'll also start looking for a 64->usb converter.

Again though, I feel like it would give you all a better idea if I posted a video. The only reason I'm so hellbent on it, is so I know EXACTLY what I need to work on, not just random stuff that I THINK that I'm doing wrong, because obviously if I'm doing it wrong I wouldn't exactly be aware of it

Thanks again for all the feedback, I plan to make use of it. :D
~Z

edit:

Once you can beat your friend teach him to z cancel and utilt with kirby so you'll have more of a challenge.

He already knows utilt, and I taught him Zcanceling already, but again, we have TV lag so we can't really make use of it :\

Oh god maplestory

wat

 

[asianaussie]

I know what it is and how to do it, but Z canceling hasn't become habit yet, I'm still in the introductory phase of all these techniques.

Just keep practising, it'll become habit. I now have to purposely think about not Z-cancelling in order not to Z-cancel

So tap Z and a direction to roll at the same time just like standing rolls?

Exactly. You have to get the timing fairly right, but if you can get Z-cancels down, this shouldn't be too hard.

I'm getting a bit better at shorthops, but when I miss it and hold the c-button too long, I get u-tilted and pay dearly for it.

Again, practise.

Also, I used grabs when it's appropriate, or at least try to. I figure that getting GOOD at this game is knowing when and how to use moves, and grabbing seems like its a rare occasion since most attacks/gameplay is aerial.

There's plenty of grabbing, especially as Pika. Much of the comboing is aerial, but as for initiation and counters/counter-approaching, there is a lot of grabs.

 

[Daedatheus]

I figure that getting GOOD at this game is knowing when and how to use moves, and grabbing seems like its a rare occasion since most attacks/gameplay is aerial.

It's more than using moves in the right spots, once you get technically skilled it's about messing with your opponent's head/taking advantage of their mistakes and openings/predicting what they will do. Of course, knowing where a certain move will work is a big part of spacing, but there's still more to it.

Anyway, grabbing is a very big part of this game (especially Pika's!). If you've been watching Isai videos you must have noticed what a great punishing move Pika's grab can be. You get free grabs if you hit an opponent's shield with almost all of his aerials. At around 0%, you can chain 2 grabs (fthrow) on most characters with Pika. Grabs are fast and can catch people offguard, especially if they shield too much. Etc. Don't discount grabs, pay more attention to how they are used in the next Isai video you watch!

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I didn't read the whole thing (too lazy, stopped at Daed's post... #503).

I'll play online with you, and play the way your friend plays (over-A too much and use the down kick for quick kills), and you play how you usually play. I'll watch what you do, and give you advice from there (advice good for your level of course). I'm used to playing at every level (I usually play to my opponent's level anyways...), so I'm used to doing over-A spam. Once you know how to tech, over-A will no longer be a 'combo' used against you.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

get off that laggy tv if you want to get better

 

[lern2zhelm]

Anyway, grabbing is a very big part of this game (especially Pika's!). If you've been watching Isai videos you must have noticed what a great punishing move Pika's grab can be. You get free grabs if you hit an opponent's shield with almost all of his aerials. At around 0%, you can chain 2 grabs (fthrow) on most characters with Pika. Grabs are fast and can catch people offguard, especially if they shield too much. Etc. Don't discount grabs, pay more attention to how they are used in the next Isai video you watch!

I actually just put this to use, and it seems to work very well(like fair to grab to grab at low percents).

I'll play online with you, and play the way your friend plays (over-A too much and use the down kick for quick kills), and you play how you usually play. I'll watch what you do, and give you advice from there (advice good for your level of course). I'm used to playing at every level (I usually play to my opponent's level anyways...), so I'm used to doing over-A spam. Once you know how to tech, over-A will no longer be a 'combo' used against you.

That would help me out so much, after all I am aiming to be good at this game, not just roast my cheap roommate. I'll see you online whenever I get it all figured out :D

get off that laggy tv if you want to get better

Working on it at the moment. I bought the Mayflash N64->USB converter(the one recommended in this thread) off of eBay about 10 minutes ago, and am currently about 5 days away from playing online.

I'm preparing to play online, which servers should I be using? I'm plannin on using the Project64k approach.

Thank you for replying to my posts, you've all been really helpful. I'll be around here a lot more often. Talk to you all soon;
~Z

 

[asianaussie]

Try U-Tilt > grab. Fun little move.

 

[lern2zhelm]

Level 4 [advance techniques]:
This is the phase when the player realizes that grabbing is only a small part in the game. This level is normally reached by the discovery of z cancel and short hopping or after being ***** or watching a video of the top players in the nation. A player will begin dash dancing a lot more as a tactic, and short hop up to do any aerial attack. Also the player discoveries all the tilt a moves and how useful they are. Normally these player will beat level 3 players with 1 to 2 lives. It is not **** yet because players at this level are not fluent in combing. Normally players don't know how to reflector break with fox and dont utilze every move the character has (like the tap a move). Players at this level begin to smash up A as well as grab to finish the player off. Also at this level players begin to edge hog and a go off the edge to attack the opponent whether is it to spike or knock them futher. Normally when players reach this level they realize there is much more to learn and that there could always be better. They normally can beat a level 3B player with 1 to 2 lives but can still lose to them if they are not careful.

Fun fun

Against a computer player and my other friend(low level 3) I can do all of these, but against anyone my level or higher I get ponged pretty hard.

 

[Dajayman]

Get off that laggy TV. Tell your stupid friend playing with lag doesn't do anyone any good and tell him "f*** you" if he tries that "it's my game, my TV" s***.

Just for the hell of it, you should play online with the keyboard for now until your fancy doohickey arrives in the mail.

 

[lern2zhelm]

Get off that laggy TV. Tell your stupid friend playing with lag doesn't do anyone any good and tell him "f*** you" if he tries that "it's my game, my TV" s***.

I've managed to get us off of the **** TV, by calling him out for a set of 5 on the no-lag one. It was originally a first to 3, but I think after I captured my 4th it was pretty clear.

Just for the hell of it, you should play online with the keyboard for now until your fancy doohickey arrives in the mail.

I don't think using a keyboard for smashing online would be too wise though. I'd start to get the hang of the keyboard just as the converter comes in the mail, then I'd have to re-learn all the techniques on the controller.

EDIT: Anyways, I'll be online soon enough, and I'll be sure PM one of you for some pointers or something.

What I'd really like to know from a lot of you, is where did you find yourself stuck and harder to improve? If that's not the case, well then what technique did you have the most trouble learning and why?

 

[Surri-Sama]

I don't think using a keyboard for smashing online would be too wise though. I'd start to get the hang of the keyboard just as the converter comes in the mail, then I'd have to re-learn all the techniques on the controller.

Thats what i did...and i really suck

~~using keys can definitely help you learn things...unless you're from socal! (or if your malt fox/his hardy crew) ~~

if you want better at smash theres no way not playing is better then playing on keys...use logic son!

;D


O_o


~~ = Sarcasim

 

[DMoogle]

If you're going to be able to use a controller in a few days then trying to learn keyboard will just be a waste of time.

 

[Surri-Sama]

If you're going to be able to use a controller in a few days then trying to learn keyboard will just be a waste of time.

thats a good point, i must say!

i wish i could host p2p and learn how to play

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I use keyboard moderately well

does anyone else still use keyboard on here, lulz