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The Fox Video & Critique Thread - READ OP.

Sukai

Sukai

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Drift108 said:
can someone critique ma fox plz?

this was my first day as him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKYJBUhuc1U&feature=related
Click to expand...
I think you should put your friend up for Marth critique before anything. He was bad. Like....baaaaaad. He should not be playing him the way he was, no spacing, barely any forward airs, shoddy recovery tactics.
His biggest issue was his defense, triple shine made me face palm, that's not a combo, under no circumstance will that ever combo on a straight-away. In a wall it should as much as needed at a given percentage.

Like, I don't mean to be a jerk, but seriously, it's hard to critique you when your opponent played so badly.
It's like asking for critique of a weight-lifting contest while your opponent is a 4 year old.

I guess I can pinpoint some things.

Don't get into a habit of trying to shine spike Marth, a better player would have made you regret ever going off-stage after him.

Shine isn't that good of a move, it's mostly for flash and unless you're actually reflecting something, you have better options, don't get into a habit of that either, Shine, like a lot of Fox's moves, is unsafe on block, fairly neutral on whiff though, but a seasoned player can and will punish that **** on sight.

Use more neutral airs, they are your friend.

Never fight in the water, Fox doesn't do well there, you made it out semi-fine because your opponent is bad at Marth.

Nice camping at the start, too bad you stopped after that, camping is Fox's strongest (tactical) weapon, use it more.

I saw you jab cancelling at the end, which was fine, but don't do that to Marth either, he can Dolphin Slash (upB) out of it and scrap your face in the process, plus you started doing it at the percents where an up smash would have been much more than just a "better option".

Use more down smashes, it is his fastest smash attack and they are your friend.

Come back when you fight a better opponent on a bit more of a neutral stage, for better critique.
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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Just to slightly counter something Knux said. If you're playing a Marth dumb enough to DS on reaction out of your jab cancels......then you should be smart enough to simply jab to a shield lol.
 
Sukai

Sukai

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It's a battle of options and is solely dependent on if you (or your opponent) really see it coming.

That goes into the category of "mindgames", while match up-wise, it's simply an option.

In any case, Fox shouldn't be that close to Marth and if he is, he has more options that are not only easier to capitalize on, but are also safer on execution.
 
Fenrir VII

Fenrir VII

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knuxrouge said:
In any case, Fox shouldn't be that close to Marth and if he is, he has more options that are not only easier to capitalize on, but are also safer on execution.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Marth doesn't have incredible close attacks, which is why his zoning game is so important... heck, even his grab is made to keep people just out of reach of him.

Fox's strength in the matchup, other than killing power, is his ability to get inside those defenses.

DS is good, sure, and is one of Marth's saving graces, but you have to figure that if he misjudges, or Fox predicts it, Marth gets at least 20+% (and can be killed around 90%) or is killed.

While any kind of guessing game should be disregarded in matchup discussion (this isn't a matchup discussion, though), using DS is a HUGE risk for Marth...especially in this matchup.

Especially after Fox's jabs, there is no reason a Marth would EVER DS out of it... DI out and reset (while taking 6%ish) is a much better option that performing a move that is that high risk
 
Zhamy

Zhamy

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Why would you be scared of Dolphin Slash when you're under 80%? Sure, it might ruin combos, but that's just Marth trading 6% for 10%+ if you're smart about it.
 
Sukai

Sukai

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Vid 1.
You seemed to have gotten you fluidity back, well, most of it. Your technical skill in general movement has gotten better and more consistent.
Don't (try to) edge guard Yoshi, it's not gonna work. Yoshi can play a really safe edge game and stall with his up B. I noticed you shine-stalled a fair bit second stock, adopt that into your off stage recovery mixups.
Your camping was okay, but it looks like Yoshi gained some momentum on you, you should use neutral air more, a really good momentum stopper is a knock back/down move, I saw you using down smash, make a mental note of that. You really should neutral air more.
I also saw your forward tilt, when you had the opportunity to down smash, you used forward tilt.
Make a mental note of that too.
You laid off the camping last stock, why? I understand you were behind, but you have to keep calm and stay patient. If Yoshi is under the stage, a well timed shine spike should work, but I'd advise against it, chasing Yoshi offstage as Fox is likely to bite you in the ***.

Charged Up Smash = fail.

I'd like to take time out to appreciate Reppuu a BlazBlue song, good work.

A tip here, try more short hop down airs, you seem to take it too cautiously and end up getting mindgamed into pokes, you're too defensive close range, when Yoshi gets in your face, try a preemptive strike.
Excellent Camping second stock.
Yoshi had you in the air, never be offensive if Yoshi is below you, your vertical knockback resistance will thank you for it.

Vid 2.
Shine stalling would have helped you from that edgehog.
You seriously need to work on your recovery mixups.

Your second stock was lulzy, you could have easily regained momentum, but you screwed up your recovery.

I'd like to take time out to appreciate the Tethe'alla battle theme from Tales of Symphonia, good work.

Pro suicide.

In all honesty, if you can survive to 147% vs a Yoshi, you're doing something right.
I'll watch the others later.
 
Zephil

Zephil

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knuxrouge said:
Vid 1.
You seemed to have gotten you fluidity back, well, most of it. Your technical skill in general movement has gotten better and more consistent.
Don't (try to) edge guard Yoshi, it's not gonna work. Yoshi can play a really safe edge game and stall with his up B. I noticed you shine-stalled a fair bit second stock, adopt that into your off stage recovery mixups.
Your camping was okay, but it looks like Yoshi gained some momentum on you, you should use neutral air more, a really good momentum stopper is a knock back/down move, I saw you using down smash, make a mental note of that. You really should neutral air more.
I also saw your forward tilt, when you had the opportunity to down smash, you used forward tilt.
Make a mental note of that too.
You laid off the camping last stock, why? I understand you were behind, but you have to keep calm and stay patient. If Yoshi is under the stage, a well timed shine spike should work, but I'd advise against it, chasing Yoshi offstage as Fox is likely to bite you in the ***.

Charged Up Smash = fail.

I'd like to take time out to appreciate Reppuu a BlazBlue song, good work.

A tip here, try more short hop down airs, you seem to take it too cautiously and end up getting mindgamed into pokes, you're too defensive close range, when Yoshi gets in your face, try a preemptive strike.
Excellent Camping second stock.
Yoshi had you in the air, never be offensive if Yoshi is below you, your vertical knockback resistance will thank you for it.

Vid 2.
Shine stalling would have helped you from that edgehog.
You seriously need to work on your recovery mixups.

Your second stock was lulzy, you could have easily regained momentum, but you screwed up your recovery.

I'd like to take time out to appreciate the Tethe'alla battle theme from Tales of Symphonia, good work.

Pro suicide.

In all honesty, if you can survive to 147% vs a Yoshi, you're doing something right.
I'll watch the others later.
Click to expand...
This fit most of my ideas

excellent DI and MC

from what I saw JJC is not a very good choice against Yoshi because he can Nair you out of it so use it wisely

You need to have Yoshi above you, your Uair destroys his Dair or any other option

@Knux: lol at the choice of songs!! I have also Reppuu and Tethe'alla battle theme in Battlefield
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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Iblis a fuggin beast on halberd. I thought you did really well i was pretty impressed Iblis. I'm not gonna really critique cuz I don't know much about Foxs' metagame anymore but really good job man congrats;)
 
Sukai

Sukai

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Back.
Vid 3.

Shine Stall, again would have saved you from 2 obvious gimp traps.
You stopped camping, you were throwing out neutral airs that were punished.
Shame.

Gale, again, awesome.
Anyway, you seemed to have gave up on camping here....
Fox's camping adds to his momentum as a character, because of the lack of it, you were bested more than a few times.
If you notice, you we're beginning to catch up on your last stock, because of your camping.

I'd like to take time out to appreciate Under Heaven Destruction, another BlazBlue song, my favorite in fact, good work.
Though....it doesn't fit Brawl very well.... It's fast paced epicness would suit Melee perfectly though.

Again, you didn't camp as much as you should.
Therefore, you were owned.
 
SnowballBob33

SnowballBob33

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vid 4

spot dodging in front of him and getting punished for it(0:13,1:54, 2:29)

dont underestimate nair. dont dsmash into shield at low percents. utilt sometimes works but dsmash is bound to get you hit

when you get hit up, regain control instead of just falling with a nair or dair

why no slightly charged smash at 2:19?

work on edgeguarding at 2:24. bair and fair could have hurt him more than just jumping and getting hit

there is a lot of things you see that just didnt work like dashing and getting fsmash or trying to chase him off stage or illusioning directly to the stage. sometimes they work, sometimes they dont
 
Zhamy

Zhamy

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You live in Bakersfield. In NorCal. You should be able to find plenty of people to play offline; no johns. Go look at the Pacific West regional forums and whatnot.
 
A

Asce

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Conviction

Conviction

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It's hard to critique Wifi and Vids are way better I mean when I get back from the tourney today I can a match between us on my dazzle.
 
Tanman2333

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There need to be some serious updates for fox videos. Once I get a camera I wil upload some Wifi or hopeully at a tourney.
 
Conviction

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Recent Fox vids are up I know there are my vids..... December was not that long ago, Ace's vids.....

But it would be a bad idea to put the newly posted vids in Red or some color.
 
Zhamy

Zhamy

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Asce said:
Wow. Thats some of the best laser use ive seen from a fox in a lonnggggg time. Amayzin Fox TKD good shiz

Hey guys I have some new vids of my fox for you, please tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGolAsH2qMU&feature=quicklist&playnext=2&playnext_from=QL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrjQ4AConEE&feature=quicklist&playnext=3&playnext_from=QL

I feel like i needed more laser in between.

Pleaseeeee???
Click to expand...
You don't understand movement. See if you can spot where you're in bad positions, and ask yourself why you don't move from there.

You also roll a crapton. A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF ROLLING. I want you to play a Brawl match where you don't roll. Just prevent yourself from doing it. I want you to keep doing this until you figure out how you can escape bad situations by rolling.

There's also the lingering problem of being scared. It's as if you don't want to attack out of fear of...something. Every attack is a risk, yes, but you can't win if you don't do damage. Yes, you will get destroyed if you attack recklessly. No, there is no other good way to learn besides getting smacked in the face a bunch before you realize what you're doing wrong.

Biggest problem? Wrong mindset, bad fundamentals. Find people to play who are better than you.
 
Fenrir VII

Fenrir VII

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TKD is the most fundamentally solid Fox I've seen. That's not to say he's the best... I couldn't say that for sure anyway, but he just does everything...right. I don't see the critical flaw I've seen in like every other Fox player. ridiculous.
 
TKD

TKD

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Oh wow. Thanks, Fenrir. I respect you a lot from your posts in these boards, so that means much. When I read that yours was the last post, I expected useful critique though (since you seem to know a lot).

Unimportant:
I didn't play as well as I do right now a month ago, so the videos from the tourney at my place show a Fox player that doesn't do many things often enough. I would try to camp in ways that don't work because I had no idea what to do, or almost lose stocks early but get lucky. So they aren't good examples. I posted a match because I play close to that way right now.
 
TKD

TKD

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Stuff about the full-hop fast-fall approach:
- We should all know that dair at the opponent's backside fails because it has so much cool-down on landing. Snake can ftilt you after blocking a dair, so that's pretty bad. Nair and Bair are still good though.
- Full-hop fast-fall nair at the opponent's backside is really good as Fox. I think it should be sweet-spotted for added shield-stun.
- You can even Nair an opponent's shield while moving away without fast-falling to bait a shield-grab (although obviously not vs ddd) and then hit them, which can serve as a surprise to land a KO.
- If they're moving and you think they'll try to pivot grab you, you can just nair into them, use bair for safety or wait with a shine to stay neutral. If you see them getting away, you can drift away too, since they're obviously baiting your aerial.
- Air-dodging from above counters some obvious options too (like Falco's short-hop nair which beats your aerials from the right angle)
 
crifer

crifer

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TKD said:
Stuff about the full-hop fast-fall approach:
- We should all know that dair at the opponent's backside fails because it has so much cool-down on landing. Snake can ftilt you after blocking a dair, so that's pretty bad. Nair and Bair are still good though.
- Full-hop fast-fall nair at the opponent's backside is really good as Fox. I think it should be sweet-spotted for added shield-stun.
- You can even Nair an opponent's shield while moving away without fast-falling to bait a shield-grab (although obviously not vs ddd) and then hit them, which can serve as a surprise to land a KO.
- If they're moving and you think they'll try to pivot grab you, you can just nair into them, use bair for safety or wait with a shine to stay neutral. If you see them getting away, you can drift away too, since they're obviously baiting your aerial.
- Air-dodging from above counters some obvious options too (like Falco's short-hop nair which beats your aerials from the right angle)
Click to expand...
so you say we should always fast fall our aerials? except fair, of course. (side note: on fatties or tall characters you are able to fair -> fast fall-> usmash to get a suprise pseudo combo.)
 
Fenrir VII

Fenrir VII

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TKD said:
Oh wow. Thanks, Fenrir. I respect you a lot from your posts in these boards, so that means much. When I read that yours was the last post, I expected useful critique though (since you seem to know a lot).

Unimportant:
I didn't play as well as I do right now a month ago, so the videos from the tourney at my place show a Fox player that doesn't do many things often enough. I would try to camp in ways that don't work because I had no idea what to do, or almost lose stocks early but get lucky. So they aren't good examples. I posted a match because I play close to that way right now.
Click to expand...
Well, to be honest, I can nitpick little mistakes you make, but so can you and everybody else, and they're just mistakes... not errors in logic.

I mean, you weren't playing perfectly, but you just have a very good working knowledge of Fox that really comes through. And you don't really have that one error that a lot of Fox mains have. good stuff man

TKD said:
Stuff about the full-hop fast-fall approach:
- We should all know that dair at the opponent's backside fails because it has so much cool-down on landing. Snake can ftilt you after blocking a dair, so that's pretty bad. Nair and Bair are still good though.
- Full-hop fast-fall nair at the opponent's backside is really good as Fox. I think it should be sweet-spotted for added shield-stun.
- You can even Nair an opponent's shield while moving away without fast-falling to bait a shield-grab (although obviously not vs ddd) and then hit them, which can serve as a surprise to land a KO.
- If they're moving and you think they'll try to pivot grab you, you can just nair into them, use bair for safety or wait with a shine to stay neutral. If you see them getting away, you can drift away too, since they're obviously baiting your aerial.
- Air-dodging from above counters some obvious options too (like Falco's short-hop nair which beats your aerials from the right angle)
Click to expand...
While Bair is, imo, the safest aerial on block, Nair pressure really does add a lot to the game, considering you can just prime your utilt behind their shield. That is freaking scary, and they generally will have to dodge or jump to escape, both of which are very punishable.
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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TKD rapin dem WC Falcos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s_cmhl2CYo

Reminds me of me back in my prime bwahahahahahah jk guys I know I blow but anyways I think TKD plays this matchup perfectly and this is a prime example of how hard Fox can punish Falco and how he outcamps him.

YO LIGHT WHERE YOU AT U SHOULD BE GETTING PRO FOX ADVICE FROM TKD!!!!
 
Toronto Joe

Toronto Joe

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lights fox is jesus shuttlesworth man

and tkds fox is gooood

and zeton is my 2nd favorite(noone beats light) even though he tried to momentum cancel with bair last stock game 1 =p <3333 so hard with dashdance mindgames

no moar meatriding from me for now
 
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TKD

TKD

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crifer said:
so you say we should always fast fall our aerials? except fair, of course.
Click to expand...
TKD said:
- You can even Nair an opponent's shield while moving away without fast-falling to bait a shield-grab (although obviously not vs ddd) and then hit them, which can serve as a surprise to land a KO.
Click to expand...
You can't really generalize, Fox has a ton of stuff going for him. The stuff I wrote went for full-hop stuff only, and if you want bair to land without cooldown, I'm not sure you can fast-fall it, but you can ask fenrirVII about that since he's played Fox longer than I have.
 
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