The Fox Video & Critique Thread - READ OP.

[Uzima (Uzi)]

You can't really generalize, Fox has a ton of stuff going for him. The stuff I wrote went for full-hop stuff only, and if you want bair to land without cooldown, I'm not sure you can fast-fall it, but you can ask fenrirVII about that since he's played Fox longer than I have.

you can short hop fast fall b-air and have it auto cancel.

 

[-Mars-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA5lQkadO9I

Japanese Fox-Falco.

 

[TKD]

Rain lost because of trying too hard to land grabs. About the bair thing, I meant actually landing it on someone that's on the ground and STILL land with no cool-down. It's obvious that you can fast-fall it and have no cool-down if you start it higher up in the air, but I may have expressed myself wrong, seeming stupid.

 

[Toronto Joe]

random post but im starting to punish falcos that illusion onstage with firefox,its good at racking up damage and it takes them out of their illusion everytime,might even get a K.O if there at high % if you run offstage and do the firefox that will charge and drift offstage then move back onto the stage its pretty ****..would it be a good idea to punish and edgegaurd more things with firefox?i wonder, hmm must look into this...i wish the chargeup wasnt so long,up oos would really help us

 

[Lightning93]

Are you sure Firefox punishes it every time? Because if it did, I'd sure be willing to try it.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Are you sure Firefox punishes it every time? Because if it did, I'd sure be willing to try it.

Agreed. That sounds like an awesome way to combat the phantom.

 

[Toronto Joe]

hasnt failed for me yet, dont see why it wouldnt work, hes not invincible in it, i discovered it by mistake lol,a mindgame i like to do is go offstage a little bit then illusion back onto the stage when they are illusioning behind me so when i land i have enough time to hit them if i manage to trick them into illusioning onstage also,my sticks are loose and i did firefox instead xD

 

[Coffee™]

I just started playing fox recently. Would be helpful if you guys could take a look at these matches and lemme know what I suck at lol. They're vs Seibrik's MK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19wYyb0bJTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVEZfcvCwfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFH_3pC1j1E

 

[C.R.Z]

here , didnt record many matches at the tourney . this one is mediocre

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJv1B1YPC-w

 

[TKD]

Friendlies!
fox on luc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODrbG6j3HlI vs icedx
fox on mk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gFOLhC4ros vs icedx
fox on fal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20GeP9wK9NE vs blue
fox on fal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcQiigayPnQ vs blue

Blue wasn't in the mood to play yesterday so I think he sandbagged.

About the 2nd video:
I know I DIed wrong in the 2nd video and that Fox is supposed to double jump approach from above a lot in that match-up, but I hadn't played that match-up in awhile and that was my only match against IceDX's awesome MK. I'll also never spam some stuff like block while blocking near the ledge again (falling helpless isn't cool), and Fox should rarely spot-dodge against MK.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

^Does this mean you are not quitting?

 

[TKD]

/\ I'm still here.

here , didnt record many matches at the tourney . this one is mediocre

I think you should observe your opponent's actions and base yours on theirs, wait at least a bit, and learn to stop spamming dair. Do the safe stuff. Only commit to your actions when you have the opponent read, or you think there's chance of KOing them. I think I described basic fighting, as I don't think you have that down yet.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

That's good to hear! I will update the OP probably tomorrow.

 

[C.R.Z]

/\ I'm still here.


I think you should observe your opponent's actions and base yours on theirs, wait at least a bit, and learn to stop spamming dair. Do the safe stuff. Only commit to your actions when you have the opponent read, or you think there's chance of KOing them. I think I described basic fighting, as I don't think you have that down yet.

yeah i did spam a bit, i actually dont use dair that often, i think i was just tired and dissappointed that i didnt come top 3 ( which i would of done if i bothered to learn my match ups) so at this point i wasnt focused on what my opponent was doing or really what i was doing.

i actually performed really well that day but the only matches which were recoreded were the few i lost in <_< i should have guessed people only wanna record stuff where they win.


btw in your vid it seems that your opponents dont grab very often. they really should, esspecially when playing against a good fox. they were geting hit by too many aerials when they could have prevented it. your lazering was good, i need to incorperate that into my gameplay. o and it also seemed that your powershielding and defence was just overall better than your opponenets, although i could be wrong as i watched them a day or two ago.

 

[Zhamy]

Your problem, as TKD is trying to point out, is that you have bad fundamentals and you're impatient. You need to watch your opponent more, as you're not focusing on how to beat their gameplan to execute yours. You're too focused on your own plan (which could also use work).

 

[TKD]

btw in your vid it seems that your opponents dont grab very often. they really should, esspecially when playing against a good fox. they were geting hit by too many aerials when they could have prevented it. your lazering was good, i need to incorperate that into my gameplay. o and it also seemed that your powershielding and defence was just overall better than your opponenets, although i could be wrong as i watched them a day or two ago.

Powerblocking Lucario's and Falco's projectiles serves a much different purpose and is much simpler than powerblocking Fox's. I don't give people many opportunities to grab me, as you can see I don't sit in my shield often. From poke to poke I tend to interrupt my opponent's actions. Yes, the pokes could be prevented, but it's all either safe hits or my mix-up in play. I don't really imagine people spamming grabs against a good Fox player.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Pika-Pika-Pikachu!

 

[TKD]

Off-topic: Because of one-sided match-ups characteristic to SSBB, I think both players should stay the same character (no switching in CPs) during each set in tournament play. That way, characters like Donkey Kong and Wolf become completely viable, and there's no possibility of gayness. Spread it around.

 

[C.R.Z]

Your problem, as TKD is trying to point out, is that you have bad fundamentals and you're impatient. You need to watch your opponent more, as you're not focusing on how to beat their gameplan to execute yours. You're too focused on your own plan (which could also use work).

i already said i wasnt paying attention this match <_<

 

[Zhamy]

As they say, "No johns."

 

[Lightning93]

Off-topic: Because of one-sided match-ups characteristic to SSBB, I think both players should stay the same character (no switching in CPs) during each set in tournament play. That way, characters like Donkey Kong and Wolf become completely viable, and there's no possibility of gayness. Spread it around.

Well there is still the question of how to prevent one-sided matchups in the first match. I mean, most people stay to what they feel comfortable with. For example, in my case, I will go Fox no matter what unless the other player convinces me he has considerable skill in his counterpick character. If I find that I got wrecked, because of this new rule, I am not allowed to switch to another character that would give me more favorable odds. You could just exclaim this as my own fault, but I think in general a lot of people rely on counter-picking, even if they aren't switching to a character that will put it at least in their favor 70:30.

I'm not saying it's a bad rule though... if players were to learn how to make the right decisions, we might start to see more matches being based on skill.

 

[TKD]

It benefits you in the end to be forced to lose as your main, since practice as your main will give you more experience. The thing about that rule is that there would be no chance of gayness. Both players agree to a match-up they're comfortable playing from the start...most likely a close one.

 

[Duff0]

I'm assuming this isn't with double blinds?

 

[Zhamy]

No, it would be double blind. His point is that you've practiced enough so that you're comfortable with every matchup.

We come across the problem of "ohgod I need to learn 39 matchups." Now imagine you have to learn 78 matchups.

Would you rather know 39 like the back of your hand or 78 semi-decently? Obviously, if you have the time to, you could learn both well, but I doubt you have all that free time.

 

[Adamated]

Thats kind of a bad argument. Isnt the point of CP'ing to take on matchups based on the bad matchups that your main has? You wouldnt have to learn 78 new matchups because your main should be able to cope with over half of them already and then a secondary that helps out with the remaining.

 

[Conviction]

This whole thing is flying over my head. What's the point of this TKD? And Zhamy....what?

I don't really understan what's going on here XD

 

[Lightning93]

Well, even if you decide to use more than 1 character, you still need to spread out 38 matchups. Why not just learn them all with one character that you feel comfortable with? I think that's the goal they're aiming at. It's already been explained, but basically this would pretty much eliminate the need for counter-pick characters in the first place.

 

[TKD]

/\ The players would agree to the match-up played.
It can't be double blind at all, since the point of that system is to remove all possibility of gayness.
But let's leave that discussion for another thread.

OP, -please- order matches by date.

 

[Conviction]

Ohh that sounds like a good idea so people lurking/browsing can tell this what this current player looks like as of that date.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

OP, -please- order matches by date.

ugh! That is going to be a lot of work. I will probably get it done eventually, but I have a lot of school work to do/I'm going to Chu Dat's today.

 

[Toronto Joe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmmxyiyzdGo

hook me up with some tips my friends =] i know my edgegaurding was stupid haha,these were friendlies so i was trying to do cool **** more then anything xD

 

[Adamated]

Umm.... hmmm id say that vs DK the more you tilt the better :] but thats just me. I like the spotdodge to usmash combo there. I lol'd. not edgeguarding dk isnt a bad choice either since our stage game is better than our offstage game. ya :]

 

[ardirok]

Vs Ness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsVVuVRoTRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkqcLbJ5_X0

Vs Bowser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wwxfHGD9gU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkTY-ms-Woc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7WR121L9T4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6bKThmVLmk

Critique please

 

[Lightning93]

Vs Bowser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wwxfHGD9gU
Critique please

I don't have time to watch all the videos, but if you want me to analyze ONE more specifically please ask me to do so.

For now I'll talk about the first match against Bowser on Frigate.

Alright so, I understand it's a small stage and everything, but you didn't demonstrate good laser use. I saw you SHDL maybe ONCE the entire match. Otherwise, you would full hop, wait until you almost hit the ground, and then fire. Not only is this a waste of time, but it's more difficult to get consistent silent lasers with a full hop, let alone a short hop, so you suffer lag because of it. And most of the time, you landed right next to Bowser, just showing how bad an option it is to give him time to get under you, and then punish your solitary laser. I suggest learning SHTL, or use SHDL more at least, never standing still after you land. Either dash away after landing, or approach with running shield.

You missed a very crucial step in combo-ing Bowser, and that is Short Hop auto-canceled Fair. Every time you used it in a short hop it didn't cancel, giving you lag and rendering you unable to follow Bowser when he is one of the most susceptible to Fox's combos. I saw you auto-cancel upair, so you should definitely have the ability to auto-cancel Fair, it's really easy. I did see you using rising Fair to recover once or twice, so at least that's all good.

Fox's vertical spacing is among the best in the game, but you weren't using it quite correctly. I saw you using SHAD at the beginning of the match, which is good, until it became overly predictable. You have to be able to land BEHIND the opponent's shield with SHAD, making it harder for them to punish you due to positioning, and making them deal with your frame 3 uptilt. I also saw you full hoping, and landing with AD... that is not a very good idea... This is where your shine stalling comes into play so that you can create openings for yourself. Just hoping that your opponent doesn't use a move that will outlast your airdodge is not a good strategy, but waiting for him to whiff a move is. I saw you shine stalling off the stage, which is fine if your opponent was trying to set you up. But Bowser isn't exactly the fastest character, so I suggest against using shine stall until you are forced to use Firefox. I saw you using Firefox too much as a recovery move, and you're lucky Bowser isn't especially good at gimping. Get on stage as fast as you can is always the goal with Fox, but the point is to make sure it's safe, not to waste as much time as possible.

Also, Nair OoS more, it has just the right amount of knockback you want without stale-ing your trump card upsmash. Also, use more jabs/learn how to jab cancel. Fox's jab is frame 2, and I saw some attempts at landing it, but you either didn't hit with it or use jab to it's fullest potential.

Overall your Fox seems very pensive. It's good to think, but Fox is a character that has simple routines you can perform while you think that both buys you time and accumulates damage/pressure. An expert Fox player never rests. The only time you should be doing nothing is if your opponent is too far off stage to do anything productive, and you're waiting for a possible opportunity to gimp.

However, there are those who do like to be patient with Fox, letting aggressive opponent's attack them first and following up with a lot of punishes. This isn't always the safest route though, as your opponent may just be approaching too safely.

If you didn't get anything I was saying just ask. And keep up the good work :D.

 

[ardirok]

Well, in these matches the configuration of my GC controller was diferent so I was unable to do the SHTL and lagless fair.

I know most of the ATs for Fox but I forget most of these things in a match...I must work on this ^^

About the jab, rising fair and shine stall I use a lot in any match...so maybe you just saw the one that I was using less.Nair OoS is something that I must remeber to use it to punish...it´s really good and I´ll try to use more.

I must ask you to watch the Halberd match please because it´s one of the best CP for Fox and I want to become better in this stage.

Thanks for taking your time to critique and comment and sorry for my bad english.

 

[Lightning93]

Well, in these matches the configuration of my GC controller was diferent so I was unable to do the SHTL and lagless fair.

That's fine , but I suggest always using a configuration which always allows you to do this though.

About the jab, rising fair and shine stall I use a lot in any match...so maybe you just saw the one that I was using less.

Don't worry, I'm not looking for any impressions you're trying to give me. I'm just here to support and give advice for what I see could be worked on. If you already incorporate things I thought were missing, then that's awesome. This is to improve you after all.

I must ask you to watch the Halberd match please because it´s one of the best CP for Fox and I want to become better in this stage.

I don't have enough time now, but if you give me the specific link or something I'll be sure to watch and critique later.

Thanks for taking your time to critique and comment and sorry for my bad english.

My pleasure, it's nice to hear you're appreciative of it.

Oh and don't worry at all about your English, it's actually pretty good in my opinion.

 

[oOTjayOo]

I was looking at matchups of Fox vs PT and it was not filed yet so I got a match of my friend vs a PT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weuUz0S0Ss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCiPavtjZ14

 

[SharkAttack]

^Those matches were entertaining. Thanks for posting those. I'm not a Fox main (yet) but after watching those vids and several others I'm considering picking up Fox. I have little experience with Fox so I really can't critique any vids. Once again TJay very entertaining vids to watch.

 

[chaos_Leader]

oOTjayOo:

I like what I see for the most part, but there are a few pointers you can give your friend:

Against Squirt and Ivy, he's got the right idea. He forces the defensive Ivysuar to play aggressively, thereby undermining that player's strength. He also seems to have a good handle on pinning down the bouncy Squirtle.
Against Charizard however, your friend get's thrown for a loop. His opponent plays with a brutally aggressive Charizard while Fox does the "wait and see" dance with him. In my experience, that generally isn't the best option for aggro players like that. What your friend can do to improve here is throw in some feint and fake-out maneuvers. He should see about playing in a "pseudo-aggressive" stance to provoke Carizard to attempt a punish, only to jump or maneuver out of the way and leave him open to Fox's counter-punishment.

Overall:
Fox's greatest strength is his unprecedented mobility, being in the right place at the right time. Your friend has a lot of potential to use that to his fullest, he just needs a little practice with the bait-and-switch aspects of Fox.

 

[oOTjayOo]

Mace(Fox) vs Jalen(Samus)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJPj6NNZYdo

Could you give this friend some tips? He seems to really want to become better at his matchups