The Fox Video & Critique Thread - READ OP.

[Conviction]

Ummm all Foxes use Laser, it's how most of his MUs are what they are. It's a not a TKD thing its a Fox thing.

 

[chaos_Leader]

Clearly I'm not all Foxes.

I don't operate on the exact same playbook you're talking about, I approach a match a different mindset than the 'traditional' Fox. That doesn't necessarily mean my methods any better or any worse, it just means I'm using the tools in the bag in different ways.

If everyone's thinking the same, then someone's not thinking.

 

[memk]

Can someone please critique these videos of me?
I'm memk.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlXgR9kucB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFfhgYlCmGc

 

[Conviction]

Can someone please critique these videos of me?
I'm memk.

MATCH 1


Ugh why do you guys spotdodge so much like it's your crack? (I've seen this lots of vids not just yours) When you play better people you will get punished over and over again. Maybe that happens it you will stop doing it so much.

Lol wow am I supposed to critique vid 1 for you or that Mario? I'm sorry but you guys are both doing bad things but he is failing harder than you. Does that Mario know how to buffer? He got hit with Dair>Usmash at 50% which is FAR from a real combo at that precent so don't ever do that memk. (I'm sorry if I'm sounding mean but I'm being straightfoward on this one. This is critique.)

1:05 - Lol finally something this Mario punishes. Ok you hit him with H Nair near the ground and he was behind you, H Nair>Grab is a combo, so just pivot the grab next time he is behind.

1:09 - Shine has horrible range don't use it unless it will hit unless you are shinestalling (which I've seen none of in this match)

1:17 - Never reflect Mario's fireballs, a good Mario will punish the reflect lag we have.

1:19 - Nair>Jab do it next time.

Ok you should never SH falling Fair. It sucks. You WILL GET punished for it.

Spoiler

when you find better people to play

Ok, overall find some one better to play cause I can't tell you, you are doing something wrong but your opponet isn't goood enough to punish it, or not get hit by something that should never work.

Match 2

AIIII, you are killing me cause you are playing such a bad player. I'm sorry I can't do this, I'm not critiquing this vid.


Please come back with some better vids with some one who actually gave you challenge cause are so many thing I could point out for you but what's the point if the person you can't do anything himself >.<

Here, go to a local tourney get some vids recorded doesn't matter if you won or not just record them. Hopefully even before you get back here from the tourney you will understand what I am talking about.

Oh and sorry again for sounding like an *** but Oiii >.<

 

[memk]

Thanks by the way the Dair>Usmash was supposed to be a Dair>Utilt but its ok.


I know a better player this is one of the worst players I know. I'll try to get videos of him and I playing.

 

[Virgman]

Hey here's my first combo video. Sorry about the quality :-/ It'll be better on my next one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbLqliRzLYk

 

[JNB328522]

Lol on edgeguarding charizard cool combo vid

 

[TKD]

Guys, I can analyze videos for you. But I don't think I should do it in public threads which anyone may read.
Ask me in your post if you want me to do it, OK? Also repost so I don't have to read through the whole thread. It takes me an hour per video and some game play isn't nearly good enough to correct though (since it has to be changed drastically).

 

[Lesleyk]

Hey, It would be great if anyone could analyze my videos. These videos were made yesterday at a smashfest. If anyone could analyze my games, that would be great cause there is a big tourney in Europe coming up.

Loser Finals R3:
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrawlLesje#p/u/4/iTW_DInlg38
Loser Finals R4:
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrawlLesje#p/u/3/I4Np6sspIJ8
Loser Finals R5:
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrawlLesje#p/u/2/Vb1LEknGV1k

I was kicked by that snake to the loser bracket. Tofu lives close so we often play brawl against eachother. He knows how I play so that makes it even worse. What should I do when I face these snakes?

 

[chaos_Leader]

LesLeyk:

I saw two players who know each other very well. It kind of reminds me of my matches against a friend of mine who uses Lucas.

For you, look at the second match, look at what worked for you:
-You stayed in Snake's face through most of the match. You were barely more than an arm's reach away the whole time and always ready to pounce with something. Staying close like that puts your opponent on-edge, and if you play your feints and harassment right it'll make them more prone to mistakes, which Fox has a gift for exploiting. The tactic works across the board, but is generally most effective against these powerhouse types like Snake.
-You kept U-Smash fresh, only using it a few times and thereby preserving its killing potency; very helpful against a walking brick like Snake who needs all the oomph you can muster to kill him.

Recommendations:
You asked what to do about players who can read and predict you, I can tell you this.
-Get comfortable with a wide array of Fox playstyles. If you find your opponent is reading and predicting your every move, simply shuffle the cards in your deck, switch-out your usual playbook, and do things a little differently. Against my friend (the one who plays Lucas) when he started catching on to my favored in-your-face pseudo aggressive style, I simply altered my tactics to a more defensive/receptive posture and won the match. Ideally, it should seem to your opponent like you handed your controller off to a completely different player, one who handles Fox in a totally different way. That'll put your opponent back to square one in trying to read and predict you, allowing the possibility for more mistakes that you can exploit.

 

[Conviction]

I'd disagree about saving Usmash to keep fresh, cause it's not hard to put in 7 lasers on somebody then Usmash is fresh again. Usmash can punish a lot of moves that I only see people doing when trying to make the kill, and I also so people try to do it when they had a better option (this includes myself). I'm saying you guys should start you using Usmash more cause of how Fox works, Usmash will be fresh by the time you need it to kill.

 

[crifer]

I'd disagree about saving Usmash to keep fresh, cause it's not hard to put in 7 lasers on somebody then Usmash is fresh again. Usmash can punish a lot of moves that I only see people doing when trying to make the kill, and I also so people try to do it when they had a better option (this includes myself). I'm saying you guys should start you using Usmash more cause of how Fox works, Usmash will be fresh by the time you need it to kill.

true.
Sometimes if I lead 1 stock I tend to spam usmash in order to put out as much damage as I can.
Usmash punishs a good amount of approaches + kill moves.

 

[Lesleyk]

Usmash does indeed a good amount of dmg yeah. But the problem is I don't wanne get too predictable against him, because he could easily give me a tilt OoS.

 

[Conviction]

17% of one move and also puts you in a good position and can kill? Usmash is great.

 

[KillerJawz]

USmash is a naturally predictable move, and once you hit 90, you will expect it. Using it before hand completely changes the opponents mindset, and Usmash definatly won't be the first thing they fear.

 

[Conviction]

Yes it is ^ and Foxes need to learn what moves are punishable with Usmash so they know how and when to use it. Cause you will be suprised what moves can be Usmashed or punished by other moves.

 

[TKD]

Usmash isn't "predictable" (you are, I guess) and it shouldn't be blocked when you use it as punishment for the opponent's whiffs and when possible from block. When you try to use it as an interruption, then it's blockable but that's your risk to take. Usmash's problem is its enormous cool-down, but that isn't an issue until you whiff it or connect it on shields.

 

[Conviction]

He summed it up better than me >.<

 

[KillerJawz]

I mean when you play a Fox as a different character, you instinctively, if you know about Fox to some extent, think of USmash as his main kill move.

 

[TKD]

Hey, It would be great if anyone could analyze my videos. These videos were made yesterday at a smashfest. If anyone could analyze my games, that would be great cause there is a big tourney in Europe coming up.

You're very fun to watch and I think you're few steps away from high level play. I'll be glad to analyze these rounds and will do so as soon as I feel up to it (I have to since video analysis of a single round takes hours). Also, replays of Tlako vs me were recorded yesterday. I need to get a hand on them to upload the videos...if I do, they'll be a great source of ideas for you. Tlako and I are my region's top players if that says anything.

 

[Variable]

You were indeed fun to watch. I'd say a few things but I'll just let TKD analyze the videos. He knows more than me, and you'll improve the most from him. The only thing I can probably say is keep practicing, and playing fox. :D

 

[Lesleyk]

Thx, Its great that everyone is willing to help. Looking forward to everyones analyzes so that I can achieve an even better Fox. So that I can rock at Bushido Impact in France ;D

 

[TKD]

My video analysis are always semi-private anyway; so people should probably not hold back from posting.

Also, Fox mains should join this online group if you want to read the video analysis I've typed up.
http://allisbrawl.com/group.aspx?id=12303

 

[Conviction]

Thx, Its great that everyone is willing to help. Looking forward to everyones analyzes so that I can achieve an even better Fox. So that I can rock at Bushido Impact in France ;D

Who the hell are you? XD

Spoiler

<- in a playful tone

Where are you good Fox players coming from?

Sure as hell not the US >.< I'd critique but at my status right now I'm fixing my ownself up Unless you would really want my critique. I'm sure with TKD's help you be in top 10 at that tourney.

 

[Lesleyk]

xD, I've been around for a while. Not posting though, I was only reading the threads and watching lots of vids. Kept me updated about Fox's metagame

 

[C.R.Z]

we are from europe

get at me!

 

[Variable]

xD, I've been around for a while. Not posting though, I was only reading the threads and watching lots of vids. Kept me updated about Fox's metagame

:O


You should definately post more. The more input we have, the better. xD

 

[Lesleyk]

Sure, I was kinda planning to do so Finished with my exams, so I've started to really focus on improving my Fox and share my little bit of knowlegde with the fox boards ;d

@CloudRain

You going Bushido too, right ? We should play there ;D

 

[C.R.Z]

Sure, I was kinda planning to do so Finished with my exams, so I've started to really focus on improving my Fox and share my little bit of knowlegde with the fox boards ;d

@CloudRain

You going Bushido too, right ? We should play there ;D

yeah im going

sure would be good to play other european fox's for a change lol

 

[crifer]

yeah im going

sure would be good to play other european fox's for a change lol

I will probably go, too.
I actually main DK but second fox, I would go as far as to say that I even Main him, too.
It would be nice to see other fox players.

 

[Asce]

Time for me to start going to tourneys regularly now that Long Island is getting a New Venue. Thanks Will So of course I'm going to try to be more active now.

 

[Daisukeno]

I have some old noob videos. but maybe this saturday my friends and me will play here in my house (mah birthday party =D)
vs Pit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvEXhf5pQs

vs Yoshi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1x0HuKVHmI

PS:tips please

 

[PBnJ]

Okay, a few tips:

1. You made very poor use of your invincibility frames after death. Instead of running away from them and shooting lasers or dash dancing, get them into poor spacing and punish them.
2. Your ability to distinguish what moves to use as punishes needs some work. There were several instances where you could have USmashed the Pit (whiffed smashes and even a whiffed AAA) but instead you opted to grab him. Boo!
3. Your [over]use of Dair can be easily punished. It sounds to me like you are not very interested in competitive level play, but instead of using Dair so much (especially once they get within kill range) and giving them countless opportunities to punish you for it, bait them into mistakes.
4. You would often throw opponents BACK into the center of the stage. I don't know that I have ever seen someone do this.
5. You stayed DIRECTLY above the Yoshi just before he took you out for your first stock. Is there a correlation here? Yes. Yoshi's Uair doesn't have much range, but it is deadly. You basically gave that kill to him on a silver platter.
6. I don't know that I saw you do anything out of shield besides grab. You do know that you can cancel a shield with jump right? Check this thread for some Out of Shield options: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=277540

 

[Daisukeno]

Okay, a few tips:

1. You made very poor use of your invincibility frames after death. Instead of running away from them and shooting lasers or dash dancing, get them into poor spacing and punish them.
2. Your ability to distinguish what moves to use as punishes needs some work. There were several instances where you could have USmashed the Pit (whiffed smashes and even a whiffed AAA) but instead you opted to grab him. Boo!
3. Your [over]use of Dair can be easily punished. It sounds to me like you are not very interested in competitive level play, but instead of using Dair so much (especially once they get within kill range) and giving them countless opportunities to punish you for it, bait them into mistakes.
4. You would often throw opponents BACK into the center of the stage. I don't know that I have ever seen someone do this.
5. You stayed DIRECTLY above the Yoshi just before he took you out for your first stock. Is there a correlation here? Yes. Yoshi's Uair doesn't have much range, but it is deadly. You basically gave that kill to him on a silver platter.
6. I don't know that I saw you do anything out of shield besides grab. You do know that you can cancel a shield with jump right? Check this thread for some Out of Shield options: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=277540

thanks guy, about the OoS options, before some time ago, i´m used tap jump off, but recently i turned on to use more options OoS.

 

[Lightning93]

^ You can still achieve many OoS options with tap jump off. You can cancel jump with upsmash, or simply Nair out of Short Hop.

 

[Conviction]

Augh I'll just post the vids I want critiqued for now. I'll post the rest later.

vs Luigi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viTbdWVxHrM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XxqbcWK2cg

vs MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz23lBI7Xc8

 

[AvaricePanda]

I'm trying to critique these through one watchthrough (occasionally I'll replay sections to see something better but eh), so the critique is kinda chronological.

Game 1 vs. BigLou's Luigi:

Don't do random dash U-smashes, don't start U-smashing a bunch when he's at kill percents, and don't use U-smash right before kill percents. I noticed this in your other match vs. Scatz's Yoshi a while ago; you U-smashed him at like 80 and he didn't die, and then you U-smashed him again at a percent that would normally kill him but didn't because U-smash was staled. It's good as an OoS option at low percents and at high percents, but overusing it is bad because of shield punishment.

Watch out about using SHDL/SHTL at mid-ranges. At about the 1 minute mark he punished the landing with a jab>grab. At mid-range most characters can close the distance on your lasering and punish, so be wary of your and your opponent's movement while doing so.

At high percents your movement seemed slightly more erratic in that you wouldn't move much except for the occasional dashes. Out of dash you usually only dash attacked or U-smashed; I don't think I saw one dash to any option other than those above two, both of which can be punished the same way—shield.

Sometimes when you wanted to get a U-smash (well mainly one time in this video but I'm remembering from your vid vs. Scatz's Yoshi) you'd stand still, wait for BigLou to do something, then dash U-smash. Waiting outside of range for a reaction is good, but the problem is that it's easily identifiable when you only stand still. Yes it worked that one time, but next times you might want to mask it in just walking around outside of his range or poking in occasional retreating SHLs.

lolwut the end


Game 2 vs. Scatz's Luigi:
Your boxing or CQC or w.e you want to call it game is pretty good at the beginning, but you forgot about Luigi's N-air a couple times. Sometimes land into shield during those times you think he'll throw out a N-air and shieldgrab him.

Even though he shielded the U-smash at :44 it was still a nice option, and the utilization of U-smash when you finally did kill him was nice too.

Scatz is catching onto your dashing patterns. Since you usually only DA or U-smash out of dash, he's moving slightly back as you dash and then B-airing. Again, don't use U-smash right before kill percentages. And that Firefox at 2:00ish really should have been punished.

lulzy ending again

Game 3 vs. BigLou's MK:
You N-aired down at him at :28 and it should have been punished, but that's generally a bad idea after MK's downthrow...or really any time. MK's shield beats out most of your air options at that distance, so it's a safe bet to assume he'll shield at that distance. You could have tried dropping down without an aerial and grabbing him when he was shielding (since he along with most players may be waiting for the shield hit to confirm a punishment, it's a good mix-up like with empty short hops). The safest option though is jumping away.

Same thing with the SHD(T)Ls in this match, at like :45 he caught you with a dash attack. Don't do those too close or if he can/will close the distance. Nice at :48

You're hitting MK's shield with too many unsafe stuff, like D-airs. They don't really work unless his shield is low enough to where it will poke. The dash attack on his shield at like :54, same thing. Dash attack is unsafe anyway though, but you might have reacted before the shield came up. Same with the N-air at 1:22. Would have worked if he tried a second D-tilt, but you should have been able to react to his shield and not N-air.

Trying to land near MK isn't a good option in general. He has more options to catch you than you do to punish him, so unless you're pretty certain you'll get something, don't try to do that. Also, same thing with the lasers at 2:24. Don't use them when you're at close or mid-range unless you're retreating from mid-range.

It didn't seem like you lasered MK much. Make him approach you, try to read his approaching habits, and punish that, instead of the other way around.

Overall pretty good Fox, nice CQC game, but you had some punishable approaching habits. Work on getting the kill without overusing U-smash, do more things out of dash, and do safer things, like less D-airs from jumps and more N-airs or B-airs, and less dash attacks against grounded opponents. And be aware of the space between you and your opponent while lasering.

 

[Conviction]

^ Thanks I'll try apply all that stuff ASAP I'm gonna like post two more vids to get critiqued.

vs. Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBscVALuAbg

vs. Wario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIlFASs_55Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwX3BnIuG3k

P.S. Scatt and Scatz are two different people

EDIT: Don't critique these ZSS ones I know this MU so well.
vs. Zero Suit
Iblis (Fox) vs. Hero (Zero Suit) 1&2
Iblis (Fox) vs. Hero (Zero Suit) 3&4
Iblis (Fox) vs. Hero (Zero Suit) 5&6
Iblis (Fox) vs. Hero (Zero Suit) 7

Team Match
Iblis (Fox) and Scatt (Metaknight) vs. Neo X (Toon Link) and Derp (Kirby)

 

[TKD]

Iblis vs MK: More fast-falls. More air-dodge. More camping. Much more DI. Less whiffs.

Hi people.
TKD (Fox) vs Tlako (Snake) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dczt-h79jIA
TKD (Fox) vs Tlako (Snake) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGGCY9TmH24
TKD (Fox) vs Tlako (Snake) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6NgFllSRSs
TKD (Fox) vs Tlako (Snake) 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvPzbcdeDIE
TKD (Fox) vs Tlako (Snake) 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL7-9sZHYX0

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's a great set. I didn't know Tlako was that good.