The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Comes down to how mario punishes Zelda's mistake. He's no luigi so Zelda should live to 150. I think his best kill move is fsmash or a pivot fsmash thats dangerous close to the edge. Luigi withought the KO power or priority.

@fiddlesticks ........

 

[zeldspazz]

I think it's more around 65-35 or 70-30 Mario's favour. As long as Mario spaces his fsmash, he should rarely, if ever, get hit.

70-30???

Wow. *Searches for SoR......*

 

[:mad:]

Phiddle is just trolling A2, guys. He's not serious, dunno how it isn't obvious.

Since, you know, he makes Fsmash and fireballs seem amazing when they're average at best.

Warranted trolling, but something I'm still here to prevent.

 

[zeldspazz]

Ive seen people post like that who are legit honest they think that.

 

[Matador]

*Was thinking the other way around*

Looks like we got work to do xD

Indeed we do...I can't agree with adv Zelda without some serious convincing.

Comes down to how mario punishes Zelda's mistake. He's no luigi so Zelda should live to 150. I think his best kill move is fsmash or a pivot fsmash thats dangerous close to the edge. Luigi withought the KO power or priority.

@fiddlesticks ........

Believe it or not...your comment on the matchup is much more absurd than Phiddlesticks'...

Even with Usmash or a fresh Dsmash, Zelda's dying at 120% or less (with proper DI). Fsmash is even lower. The Luigi comparison doesn't help your case either.

 

[Shahryar2010]

Who can forget the FLUDD/Cape gimp?

65:35 Mario in my opinion,

Ok if thats really too much then 60:40.

 

[zeldspazz]

You guys must be fighting trash Zelda's if you think it's 70-30

Cant debate anymore tonight, getting late ;X

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

70:30? Mario isn't Olimar or G&W. At worst it's MAYBE 60:40.

 

[Shahryar2010]

You guys must be fighting trash Zelda's if you think it's 70-30

Cant debate anymore tonight, getting late ;X

I went too overreacting with 70:30 but its not quite hard for Mario to gimp her w/ fludd and cape.

 

[zeldspazz]

I still fail to see how its even in Mario's advantage.

Zelda for the most part outrange him on the ground, and fireballs arent even that big of a threat.
Mario cant juggle or combo Zelda in the air cus of how floaty she is.
Mario is going to die early just like Zelda.
Mario can gimp Zelda if the Zelda is ******** and recovers right near the edge.

Yeah, I lied. Now I have to go.

 

[Inferno3044]

Zelda's generally dont kill with Usmash that option, its huge for stopping midair approaches, and packs some good damage (17 uncharged iirc). Really hard to SDI too.

That's true. Forgot to put that. I didn't know it's not used for killing though.

The thing with uair is that most people airdodge on reaction and all Zelda has to do is wait out the airdodge and punish. It's the strongest uair in the entire game, it hurts if it hits you.

OK. I will put it this way. If you are high in the air GET THE **** AWAY! If you FF through Zelda, will it work?

Basically, Zelda has the advantage on the ground, due to more range, safe moves, and power.

That and Mario doesn't have that good of a ground game.

Dont take Zelda to anywhere with platforms like BF. She's killer with them. Halberd actually isnt that great, she cant sweetspot the ledge well and you can uair spam under the stage a bit. I agree with YI, iirc its a great Mario stage and a not so good Zelda stage.

I stand corrected. YI is my favorite neutral anyways. Would a flat stage like FD benefit Mario?

*Was thinking the other way around*

Looks like we got work to do xD

Yes we do.

Its not quite hard for Mario to gimp her w/ fludd and cape.

This will not work on Zelda. I'm sorry that I gave some false deception when I played you on wifi (which im playing poorly on recently), but what would really happen inthat situation is that if you FLUDD, the opponent will go against the knockback as much as it can, dodge the cape and recover safely. Why didn't I do that against you? No idea.

I still fail to see how its even in Mario's advantage.

Zelda for the most part outrange him on the ground, and fireballs arent even that big of a threat.
Mario cant juggle or combo Zelda in the air cus of how floaty she is.
Mario is going to die early just like Zelda.
Mario can gimp Zelda if the Zelda is ******** and recovers right near the edge.

Yeah, I lied. Now I have to go.

Don't say range = advantage. We go even with DK who has a ridiculous amount of range and can kill us much earlier.

Though we can't juggle, we can rack damage on you very well.

I guess the percent in which we die is similar, but Usmash and Fsmash will send you flying.

I said a gimp on Zelda is difficult. Feasible, but it's not gonna happen often.

 

[Shahryar2010]

OK i reconsider.

55:45, at worst 60:40.

 

[Matador]

I still fail to see how its even in Mario's advantage.

Zelda for the most part outrange him on the ground, and fireballs arent even that big of a threat.

Zelda's reflector dampens Mario's fireball approach, but is a good spacing tool when we're trying to get inside. The significance of this is obvious; the entire battle consists of Mario getting inside and Zelda keeping him out.

Mario cant juggle or combo Zelda in the air cus of how floaty she is.

False.

Zelda's floatiness doesn't keep Mario from comboing her. We won't be racking damage like we would on Ike or D3, but it'll still be devastating, especially since she doesn't have a quick aerial to break the combos.

Mario is going to die early just like Zelda.

Depends on how the match plays out, but this is a possibility.

Mario can gimp Zelda if the Zelda is ******** and recovers right near the edge.

Not really the case. Fludd, fireballs, and proper manipulation of the ledge can make her recovery punishable even if she's far from the stage.

If needed, Mario has options like capegliding or Bairs offstage to provide pressure as well.

Yeah, I lied. Now I have to go.

S'okay, respond whenever you have the chance.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario's ability to juggle largely depends on how many options you have to gtfo from something below you. Zelda is actually pretty easy for Mario to juggle because she lacks any good gtfo options and mixups for landing.

Being floaty only means you don't get hit by as many U-tilts, or actually it means that you can't automatically block Mario's U-tilt chain. It also means Jab Down-smash is unblockable in this matchup.

Mario can also gimp Zelda by FLUDDing her when she uses Din's Fire.

As I was saying though...the main thing about Zelda is she really doesn't have any real ways of creating openings. She just has some walls, but they are annoying. This matchup will last a long time if it's played correctly since basically what Mario is trying to do is just repeatedly poke Zelda and D-air whenever she spotdodges, and then get her offstage for some edgeguards. And all Zelda can really do is be a defensive homo and every so often attempt to mix it up by throwing out random dash attacks/dashgrabs.

Oh yeah, and even if Zelda doesn't get gimped, it's easy to get a free hit on her recovery. Not so much the other way around.

At any rate, I think the matchup is neutral...maybe 55/45 Mario and generally swinging towards Mario when it comes to counterpick stages.

 

[Veggie123]

Hi, wow someone has half my username.

Anyway this is a fun matchup, the only good Mario I've played is Box7 and that was like twice in offline tournament sets (though one wasn't legit due to brackets being messed up). We're 1-1 in games (not sets), one of us always ended up switching characters 2nd game though. I consider him to be a better player than I (with more impressive tournament results to boot), but I never really felt the same pressure fighting Mario compared to fighting a good Metaknight, Snake or GaW, all of which are at least 70:30 or worse btw...so yeah it's definitely not that. Zelda's a bad character, but not that bad

Mario

Mario can hit Zelda with multiple uairs fairly easily as long as he can get Zelda in the air. It's been stated before but I feel the need to emphasize it. Nair and bair are her fastest aerials but do not cover underneath her which make them useless when under uair assault. Zelda has decent aerial mobility however so it's not impossible for her to get away. Utilt combos and such, but finding an opening to get that close and freely utilt seems tough to do. It's definitely possible if she whiffs a usmash/dsmash but not so much with her fsmash, dtilt, and jab. Basically Mario has a obvious advantage in the air.

Probably one of the best ways to get in close to Zelda on the ground is to use a really fast move like jab. Zelda's fsmash is pretty slow so if you can interrupt it before it goes off then you can setup a combo or whatever. Just watch out for dsmash if you choose to delay any of your moves.

As far as gimping goes, honestly, bairing her during Farore's Wind seems like the easier and more practical thing to do. Gimping isn't the only way to punish Zelda's recovery, Mario can also force her to recover on stage and punish accordingly. Also FLUDD can gimp Zelda using Din's fire as stated before and it's actually pretty scary, especially if Din's is used near the end of the stage.

Zelda

I consider Zelda on the other hand to have a better ground game. She's a nice wall of priority that shines when she is not forced to take the offensive. Dtilt and fsmash in particular are moves I wish to touch up upon.

For damage racking purposes, dtilt at mid percents and later have enough frame advantage to lead into a dsmash and more dtilts. Staled dtilts can lock but can be SDI'd out of fairly easily if the player knows what to do. Moreover, fresh dtilts at high percents pop up chars above her and can lead into kill moves which add more versatility to Zelda's #1 setup move. Mario can try nairing her before she does usmash/utilt if he's sent too high, but I'm pretty sure there's enough hitstun to give Zelda time to shield and punish.

I don't really consider fsmash a kill move but rather more of a spacing tool. It can lead into grabs if staled enough and if the opponent is at low percentages which can make up for the frame disadvantage dtilt has at low percents. It has good range and low ending lag which is godsend for Zelda. Its only real downside is that it is her slowest ground move coming out on frame 16...oh and I guess it can be DI'd out of too but it still puts you in a not so great position.

Other moves like ftilt and jab can setup into other moves at early percents, but they're definitely more situational. She may not be a combo maniac like other characters but racking damage isn't as tough as a lot of people claim it is. Also, if you get gimped by a Zelda then you're doing something wrong, and she doesn't really need to go for a gimp when she can just kill instead.

For Mario, Zelda can't approach and she can't keep you from not approaching.

Zelda wants to be approached, she's a shy girl that suffers from multiple personality disorder.

Fair/Bair shouldnt be your huge problem here, considering Mario's too short to bair OoS. Watch out for a surprise Ftilt kill too at high percentages, its got hax range.

Mario CAN get hit by a bair OoS, he's short but not advantageously short.

I consider ftilt a terrible move at high percents and it really shouldn't be used for killing purposes since she has so many better options.

And since Mario is in the air a lot using his aerials and whatnot (that can extend his hurtbox), it's not exceedingly difficult to wait for a mis-spaced aerial and counter with a bair. Being in the air frequently increases the number of opportunities to hit characters with a short hopped bair which has relatively no landing lag (2 bairs a shorthop is a different story however).

Mario wins this matchup by camping with Fireballs and countering her whiffed approaches with fsmash

Again, Zelda really isn't going to want to approach in this match up or in any other match up for that matter. Also, unless you're frame perfect with your fsmash or Zelda horribly mispaces hers, you won't be able to punish her fsmash with his. Zelda's fsmash has the same amount of cooldown frames as Mario's fsmash's start up.

Don't say range = advantage.

Most of Zelda's attacks have slight to moderate disjointedness which can certainly be a problem for some characters. I'm pretty sure DK's just extend his hurtbox.

I strongly believe this matchup is around even

 

[Half-Split Soul]

She has a ridiculous spotdodge

Her spotdodge alone is only mediocre. It's her punishing options from it that make it intimidating.

Her best kill move is Usmash but it's kinda obvious when she will use it. You can survive Fsmash to good percentages (150% with good DI) but be aware that it can shield poke pretty well. Her Dsmash can send you at a bad angle if poorly DI'd but it shouldn't be too big a problem. Her Uair is really strong, but it's not hard to see coming. Her spike is pretty good and a sweetspotted Fair or Bair can mean trouble. Her kill moves are safe as well. Honestly, kill power is most of what's going for Zelda.

Usmash is also one of her most used moves for damage racking, so it's often too stale to work well as a kill move. Watch out if it's fresh, though.

Fsmash shouldn't be too intimidating to Mario. It's rather easy to SDI out of and doesn't have all that much killing power. Similarly to Usmash, it'll also most likely be stale as it's extremely good spacing move.

Dsmash and Dtilt are the two ground moves you need to watch out at high percents. Dsmash will get you into very bad position near the edges and is very fast. Dtilt is almost as fast, and although it won't kill it can trip you, giving Zelda a chance to follow up with a strong killing move. It also pops you above her at high percents so that she can Utilt/Usmash you.

Most of the time you should be able to avoid her power aerials, but when she does land one you're going to get hurt or die. Dair spike is almost certain death if she can land it but it isn't too hard to avoid. Good use of your Bair will protect you from her Fair/Bair, but be careful if she tries to trade hits: sweetspotted LK hurts. Uair has deceptively big range and amazing killing power so be careful when above her.

I went too overreacting with 70:30 but its not quite hard for Mario to gimp her w/ fludd and cape.

Farore's wind has insane range (one of the only good attributes of the move) so she'll recover from far away. This makes F.L.U.D.D. much less effective as gimping tool and makes it so that your cape often won't reach. Even if you cape her, she can return the control stick to neutral position and aim again. Granted, there isn't always time for that but it still works. Mario can gimp Zelda, but if that happens often Zelda player is doing something very, very wrong.

FW also has insane lag both in startup and cooldown and limited directions, so she'll avoid recovering from below. This way she has options to sweetspot the ledge, land on stage or appear above it. If you edgehog she's forced to rely on either of the latter ones and you can punish the lag.

tl:dr: Mario can punish Zelda's recovery very well, but he shouldn't be gimping too often.

OK. I will put it this way. If you are high in the air GET THE **** AWAY! If you FF through Zelda, will it work?

It's just a guessing game really. If you just try to FF airdodge through her, she can Uair before you get close enough. If you airdodge and then FF she can wait through your airdodge and then Uair. Either way, she has to predict your actions and you'll have to predict hers.

We won't be racking damage like we would on Ike or D3, but it'll still be devastating, especially since she doesn't have a quick aerial to break the combos.

Nayru's love has invincibility in the beginning and sometimes works, but generally this is the case.

Mario can also gimp Zelda by FLUDDing her when she uses Din's Fire.

Any good Zelda should know better than to use Din's fire near the edge against Mario, so don't expect this to happen too often.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Her spotdodge alone is only mediocre. It's her punishing options from it that make it intimidating.

My observation and experience in this matchup disagrees. I honestly think Zelda's spotdodge has the same frame data as Falco's. And I misplaced the topic that has all the spotdodge data. =(

 

[hippiedude92]

Ah here we go with that range bs again.

*gets ready to scroll down for wall of text pages*

 

[mountain_tiger]

I don't know how anybody can possibly consider this 65:5 or 70:30 Mario's favour. Zelda may suck, but she doesn't suck THAT badly.

The main advantage Mario has is that he forces her to approach, since Cape and Nair clash with Din's. She can reflect hit fireballs, but it's often not worth it because they don't travel far enough to hit you and she's very vulnerable during the cooldown. So all in all, she's forced to approach, which in its own right is bad.

Once she gets close in, the matchup gets much easier for her. Her range advantage is actually pretty important overall, despite what soem may say, and well spaced FSmashes and jabs are basically unpunishable.

Mario's air game is definitely superior, but Zelda's anti-air game is also fairly solid, so you have to be careful. Ideally, you don't want to be above her when you can help it; USmash eats through everything you have and is hard to SDI out of. But if both of them are in the air, Mario wins.

You also want Zelda above you as much as possible, since Zelda has a massive blindspot below her. Her only options are Dair (weak unless sweetspotted and slow), FF Nair (if you trade hits she's always worse off) and Nayru's to slow her descent, though that has huge cooldown.

In terms of killing, realistically you can expect to survive to about 120% against her, and from about 80%+ it's hard to recover from DSmash due to the low angle it sends you at. If you have enough space between you and the edge, you can DI down and tech to absorb the knockback, but if she does it near the edge you're pretty screwed.

Her recovery can potentially be caped, but most of the time they can recover far out enough for it to be unsafe for Mario to follow. You're better off edgehogging and then getting a free hit tbh.

One last thing: don't get hit by DTilt. She can lock you into it, and can finish with a DSmash. If you get hit, then the only way to escape it to SDI away to gradually move away from her. Don't approach her when you can help it. Her defensive game is very good; it's just that she can't normally use it due to how she often has to approach.

I'd say around 50:50, possibly 45:55 Mario's favour.

 

[Veggi]

Hi, wow someone has half my username.

*high-five*

 

[Matt07]

Do you guys know each other, or is this just a really big coincidence you guys have very similar usernames .

 

[zeldspazz]

Zelda's reflector dampens Mario's fireball approach, but is a good spacing tool when we're trying to get inside. The significance of this is obvious; the entire battle consists of Mario getting inside and Zelda keeping him out.

The thing is Zelda can keep a lot of characters out pretty easily, with Fsmash, Dsmash, dtilt, and ftilt.

False.

Zelda's floatiness doesn't keep Mario from comboing her. We won't be racking damage like we would on Ike or D3, but it'll still be devastating, especially since she doesn't have a quick aerial to break the combos.
Depends on how the match plays out, but this is a possibility.

Meh, I wouldnt really call it devistating, you could probably rack about 20-30% at low percentages, but after that it's really not gonna happen.

Not really the case. Fludd, fireballs, and proper manipulation of the ledge can make her recovery punishable even if she's far from the stage.

If needed, Mario has options like capegliding or Bairs offstage to provide pressure as well.

Zelda's recovery is actually really long ranged. Im pretty sure that Zelda can recover far enough away where none of those can hit her.

Personally, fireballs and FLUDD seem to do more damage to Zelda's recovery. Also I gotta remember to never ever Dins near the edge xD



Going into this I was thinking 55:45 Zelda. Im still thinking that cus I havent been pursuaded the other way yet :\

Edit: Reading through, I think you guys I not really seeing how strong Zelda actually is.

The strongest uair and utilt
Some of the strongest if not the strongest fair/bar/dair
Fast, decent strength, and great trajectory dsmash.
Fsmash that kills at ~140
And dtilt leads into almost all her kill moves guaranteed.

Now pulling these off can be a challenge, but she is defidently raw power. Dont forget that when they outrange you.

 

[Veggi]

Do you guys know each other, or is this just a really big coincidence you guys have very similar usernames .

Coincidence.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

The strongest uair and utilt
Some of the strongest if not the strongest fair/bar/dair

IIRC Snake's Utilt is slightly stronger than hers... and Ness' Dair has the strongest initial knockback while Ganon's has the biggest growth rate.

But yeah, don't underestimate Zelda's strenght and always watch your backs or you're in for a rude surprise.

 

[zeldspazz]

Actually HSS its tested that Zelda's is in fact stronger

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Actually HSS its tested that Zelda's is in fact stronger

I stand corrected.

 

[Inferno3044]

My observation and experience in this matchup disagrees. I honestly think Zelda's spotdodge has the same frame data as Falco's. And I misplaced the topic that has all the spotdodge data. =(

I'm pretty sure you are right about the spotdodge data. I believe its 4 or 5 characters with that data. They are Falco, Zelda, Link, and TL (if there is a 5th I forgot who it was). What Falco has above those others is something really quick to do after it. Falco has a frame 2 jab and none of those other characters have something that fast they can do.

I don't know how anybody can possibly consider this 65:35 or 70:30 Mario's favour. Zelda may suck, but she doesn't suck THAT badly.

You're right.

The main advantage Mario has is that he forces her to approach, since Cape and Nair clash with Din's. She can reflect hit fireballs, but it's often not worth it because they don't travel far enough to hit you and she's very vulnerable during the cooldown. So all in all, she's forced to approach, which in its own right is bad.

Yep.

Once she gets close in, the matchup gets much easier for her. Her range advantage is actually pretty important overall, despite what soem may say, and well spaced FSmashes and jabs are basically unpunishable.

It might be easier, but it's not too easy. We have things to get you out like nair and Dsmash.
Technically, we can punish jab and Fsmash with a move that outranges it or a projectile, but I think it'll clash with the projectile and it's not worth it to punish you with our Fsmash unless it can kill you. They are safe moves though.

Mario's air game is definitely superior, but Zelda's anti-air game is also fairly solid, so you have to be careful. Ideally, you don't want to be above her when you can help it; USmash eats through everything you have and is hard to SDI out of. But if both of them are in the air, Mario wins.

That Usmash is annoying.

You also want Zelda above you as much as possible, since Zelda has a massive blindspot below her. Her only options are Dair (weak unless sweetspotted and slow), FF Nair (if you trade hits she's always worse off) and Nayru's to slow her descent, though that has huge cooldown.

This I didn't know of. If what you're saying is that we can Uair juggle her safely, that's really good for us.

Her recovery can potentially be caped, but most of the time they can recover far out enough for it to be unsafe for Mario to follow. You're better off edgehogging and then getting a free hit tbh.

That's true. If we put her in a bad enough place, she's dead at certain percentages.

One last thing: don't get hit by DTilt. She can lock you into it, and can finish with a DSmash. If you get hit, then the only way to escape it to SDI away to gradually move away from her. Don't approach her when you can help it. Her defensive game is very good; it's just that she can't normally use it due to how she often has to approach.

I didn't know her Dtilt was good. That's something for me to keep in mind. Thank you.

I'd say around 50:50, possibly 45:55 Mario's favour.

Still disagree. I still think it's 60:40. I can see a little bit how you think its 55:45, but if we camp, it puts it as 60:40.

 

[zeldspazz]

I'm pretty sure you are right about the spotdodge data. I believe its 4 or 5 characters with that data. They are Falco, Zelda, Link, and TL (if there is a 5th I forgot who it was). What Falco has above those others is something really quick to do after it. Falco has a frame 2 jab and none of those other characters have something that fast they can do.

4 frame Dsmash and a 5 frame bair are pretty fast :\

This I didn't know of. If what you're saying is that we can Uair juggle her safely, that's really good for us.

What he was saying was dont be afraid to come from below, cus she's weak there. Ive played lots of Marios and I know for a fact you cant uair juggle more than 2-3 in a row times.

That's true. If we put her in a bad enough place, she's dead at certain percentages.

I seriously dont think its such a big deal that it mvoves this matchup more than 5 points.

I didn't know her Dtilt was good. That's something for me to keep in mind. Thank you.

Dtilt is her best move actually. Guaranteed follow ups, huge frame advantages, its just great

Still disagree. I still think it's 60:40. I can see a little bit how you think its 55:45, but if we camp, it puts it as 60:40.

Mario doesnt camp Zelda that great :\



Basically in this matchup Mario is trying to get Zelda either above him, off the stage, or really really close range.

But, thats hard for him because of her high priority, transgendant, and decent ranged moves on the ground. Her reflector kinda sucks, but not that bad against fireball spam.

55:45 Zelda is still where I stand.

 

[Shahryar2010]

I'd like to see a Mario player say its 55:45 Zelda's advantage.

I'm going with 60:40 till then.

 

[Matador]

Epic Post

Great overview. This is generally what I think of the matchup.

The thing is Zelda can keep a lot of characters out pretty easily, with Fsmash, Dsmash, dtilt, and ftilt.

Nice tools, but they're not going to shut Mario out for an entire match, or even an entire stock. Though she's got lingering hitboxes and far superior range, her attacks are dedicated. This means that if she misses one of these attacks or throws one out prematurely, it's easy to punish.

Also keep in mind that fireballs are great for approaching. Even if you reflect them, it's not hard to get in using them as the medium.

Meh, I wouldnt really call it devistating, you could probably rack about 20-30% at low percentages, but after that it's really not gonna happen.

I personally end my combos with a grab or Dsmash. Bthrow and Dsmash, alone, deal about 13%.

Mario's combos from zero percent can go up to about 40% typically (Jab-> Jab2 ->Utilt or grab + pummel + Dthrow -> Uair or Usmash, airdodge chase -> grab or dsmash for example), with the percentage increasing on characters that cannot get me/keep me off of them.

Zelda's on the fence in that category since she has a weaker aerial game in that context while her GTFO move (Dsmash) is good and her ability to wall is decent.

Zelda's recovery is actually really long ranged. Im pretty sure that Zelda can recover far enough away where none of those can hit her.

I'm speaking on reappearing or disappearing, Fludd is effective on both. Same with cape.

If you're so far that Fludd cannot reach, a ledgeguard will suffice. I don't think I've ever witnessed or experienced a situation that suggests the contrary. If you ever do, I'd be more than happy to agree with you.

Personally, fireballs and FLUDD seem to do more damage to Zelda's recovery. Also I gotta remember to never ever Dins near the edge xD

Indeed, especially because of the remedy you guys have to the almighty cape.

Edit: Reading through, I think you guys I not really seeing how strong Zelda actually is.

The strongest uair and utilt
Some of the strongest if not the strongest fair/bar/dair
Fast, decent strength, and great trajectory dsmash.
Fsmash that kills at ~140
And dtilt leads into almost all her kill moves guaranteed.

Now pulling these off can be a challenge, but she is defidently raw power. Dont forget that when they outrange you.

She's powerful. Hell, Ganon's powerful.

I'm merely saying that if you're reliably landing Utilt your crazy-strong aerials, then the Mario screwed up; much like if we hit you with Fsmash (typically...it does have some setups that true combo, and some that are just really reliable).

I also have a question for my fellow Marios...

I personally think the bulk of this matchup is getting inside...but I'm hearing that it's mainly forcing Zelda to come to us...I've only played it one way and it hasn't stabbed me in the back. Does camping ACTUALLY work?

 

[zeldspazz]

I wanna fight a Mario whos posted here so we can settle disagreements once and for all I cant now though, maybe later tonight

Also, if I thought Zelda would shut down Mario for an entier stock or game, I wouldnt be saying its 55:45. To me, 55:45 means that both characters have a very high chance of winning the matchup, but Zelda has 1 or 2 tools that help her slightly.

Zelda's ground game vs. Mario to me seems to outweigh Mario's air/offstage game.
Mario isnt going to be camping Zelda to efficiently, causing Mario to approach, and stop approaches is something Zelda does well in. Zelda will kill Mario fairly early, especially if Zelda hits him with Dsmash at high percentages puting Mario in a horrible recovery position. Zelda can rack damage with nair if needed, is very safe from below in the air, and has a devistating fair/bair/dair when sweetspotted.

Mario on the flip side does have the advantage offstage, with the second best gimping game. His variety of aerial combos can help for quick damage, both wont be going on for as long as some other characters. Mario can also kill with Fsmash, with its good range and KO power. Usmash will also be killing. Fireballs at midrange can open up for some hits. since this is the distance Zelda has the most trouble dealing with spam. Be warned though, that hitting Zelda's sheild from behind can results in a bair OoS, which is one of the best OoS punishers against tall characters.

 

[Javon89]

I'd say 60:40 Mario or 55:45 is the most accurate, although Mario can't
combo well on Zelda, I'm pretty sure that Mario has the upper hand in close-combat, punishing, and gimping, though hard to do since Zelda's recovery is a little unpredictable, Mario can also cape her Din's Fire and since she is light, that doesn't help Zelda either so this MU looks bright for the pasta-eating plumber.

 

[-Mars-]

Snake's utilt is stronger than Zelda's. You can DI Zelda's utilt surprisingly well to the side whereas you cant as much with Snake's.

 

[Veggi]

I wanna fight a Mario whos posted here so we can settle disagreements once and for all I cant now though, maybe later tonight

K, I'll meet you at your house in about an hour.

 

[Inferno3044]

Also, if I thought Zelda would shut down Mario for an entier stock or game, I wouldnt be saying its 55:45. To me, 55:45 means that both characters have a very high chance of winning the matchup, but Zelda has 1 or 2 tools that help her slightly.

55:45 means that it's definitely possible for both players to win, but the one with the advantage has a tiny thing to give them a bit of an upper hand. I don't really think Zelda really has something that good.

Zelda's ground game vs. Mario to me seems to outweigh Mario's air/offstage game.
Mario isnt going to be camping Zelda to efficiently, causing Mario to approach, and stop approaches is something Zelda does well in. Zelda will kill Mario fairly early, especially if Zelda hits him with Dsmash at high percentages puting Mario in a horrible recovery position. Zelda can rack damage with nair if needed, is very safe from below in the air, and has a devistating fair/bair/dair when sweetspotted.

Why would we approach? You have nothing to force an approach on us. Din's Fire is the only thing you can do to attempt an approach from us and we can easily cape or nair it. It's not a good projectile. On the other hand, we can use fireballs to force an approach from you and they are good projectiles. Your Dsmash will probably stale if its a good gtfo move. I guess Zelda is safe from below assuming Zelda is below Mario, but if it's the other way around, she can't do much. I'll give you the sweetspots.

Mario on the flip side does have the advantage offstage, with the second best gimping game. His variety of aerial combos can help for quick damage, both wont be going on for as long as some other characters. Mario can also kill with Fsmash, with its good range and KO power. Usmash will also be killing. Fireballs at midrange can open up for some hits. since this is the distance Zelda has the most trouble dealing with spam. Be warned though, that hitting Zelda's sheild from behind can results in a bair OoS, which is one of the best OoS punishers against tall characters.

Quick damage dealing can go a long way. I mean, you need to rack up damage to kill someone right?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario wins this matchup because:

He edgeguards/combos Zelda better
Has better counterpicks
ultimately CAN poke Zelda, although it will be a slow matchup regardless.

Also, Jab D-smash combos on Zelda.

 

[zeldspazz]

Would anyone like to play in about 5-10min?
I tihnk the best way to see this go down is to actually play this matchup

 

[MrEh]

Would anyone like to play in about 5-10min?
I tihnk the best way to see this go down is to actually play this matchup

I think the best way to see this go down is to get actual competent players to play each other in real life.

Only problem is that Zelda and Mario players are rare enough already. DM uses both though, so he might know.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Awesome's Zelda beat me in low tiers because I didn't know the matchup and kept getting baited by spotdodges. I learned the matchup pretty quickly after I played him and one of my friends in UCSB is a Zelda/Sheik user.

 

[zeldspazz]

I think the best way to see this go down is to get actual competent players to play each other in real life.

Only problem is that Zelda and Mario players are rare enough already. DM uses both though, so he might know.

Im kinda getting sick of your constant trolling.
No offence, but you do this all the time. Its annoying. I have to admit, getting DM in here would be ncie though.