The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[Inferno3044]

I'm personally more afraid of a character like Ike who has powerful slower moves intermixed with quick moves than a character with a moveset (speed-wise) like MK. They're built in spot dodge/airdodge punishers...something your brain isn't programmed to expect. It's why D3's DA is so scary and why Bowser's Uair keeps me from landing anywhere near him when i find myself airborne.

I distance myself away from them if I think something like that will happen. I just see a slow attack and see that I have time to punish.

Campy? What? If the only thing you're doing with fireballs in ANY matchup isn't simply approaching/spacing, you're not using them safely. You DO realize that powershielding fireballs makes YOU vulnerable right? You don't want to be caught with your pants down vs Ike. You use them to get in pass that jab and spacing, combo him to hell, then repeat whenever he gets around to knocking you back out.

My definition of camping (brawl-wise) is not approaching and using something like a projectile to have the other person approach. I guess it's kinda more like zoning/spacing because I'll sometimes move in and out while using SH and FH fireballs and eventually going in when I see an opening. I think we both agree that approaching Ike head on isn't smart. Therefore, I will use fireballs to get them to approach me. Please explain to me why Ike PSing it puts us at a disadvantage if we are a distance away. Maybe we are thinking differently.

Honestly, the hardest part of this MU is getting past his jab. His jab is really good. That's the only thing keeping it from 60:40 Mario imo. I say 55:45 Mario due to his much superior offstage/gimp game and a good amount of Ike's unsafe moves.

 

[hippiedude92]

camping is different from zoning/spacing

this is camping

This player tries to force his opponent to come to him, and exploit the weaknesses of that approach. This player will often employ projectiles to force specific angles of approach

 

[Inferno3044]

camping is different from zoning/spacing

this is camping

This player tries to force his opponent to come to him, and exploit the weaknesses of that approach. This player will often employ projectiles to force specific angles of approach

Looks like I have something to work on. I gotta learn how to really effectively camp with Mario then. I do the first half right, but I think when I learn the full extent of Mario's camping ability if there is one, I will think differently of some MU's. For now, I agree with the majority with 55:45 Mario.

I think we have talked enough about Ike. Is there anything more to be discussed or is it good to close this?

 

[Kimchi]

If I'm not mistaken, I think we all forgot to talk about something here: Mario's recovery game. I believe Ike's Fair here can really shut out Mario's recovery, unless he hits Ike with his capestall. I recommend Mario to recover quickly before Ike can get a chance to walkoff Fair or edgeguard you. If you land on the stage, you're going to get punished by either ledgehop Fair, ledgehop Uair if Mario's close to the ledge, or ledgehop Nair -> into jabs or Utilt.

 

[Veggi]

Is it really possible to get out of Ike's jab cancel into more jabs? I was mashing up b against Ryo and it didn't do anything.

Also, the average human reaction time is 12 frames I think. For Smash Bros. players it should be moderately faster though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ike's F-air? Nah, if he could go more than 7 feet offstage then it would be a big deal, but he can't go that far offstage, and his commitment to aerials is too great in the air for him to follow up if he whiffs. As long as Mario DIs well, his recovery is pretty unpunishable if done correctly.

Ike should focus more on trying to hit Mario out of his RCO lag, but even then, Mario has ways of working around that.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Wow, Mario's fsmash sounds like it's by far the best move Mario has. In fact, it could possibly be one of the best moves in the game!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Best move? Nah, but it is one of the best F-smashes in the game.

 

[Kimchi]

Is it really possible to get out of Ike's jab cancel into more jabs? I was mashing up b against Ryo and it didn't do anything.

Also, the average human reaction time is 12 frames I think. For Smash Bros. players it should be moderately faster though.

Is Ryo jab canceling or just using the normal jab combo? You can't Up B out of the normal jab combo, but as A2ZOMG said, I'm sure you can Up B out of jab cancels. If not, I recommend SDIing up and using your Uair instead.

Ike's F-air? Nah, if he could go more than 7 feet offstage then it would be a big deal, but he can't go that far offstage, and his commitment to aerials is too great in the air for him to follow up if he whiffs. As long as Mario DIs well, his recovery is pretty unpunishable if done correctly.

Again, you're not giving Ike much credit here. His Fair has considerable range, so if Mario air dodges it while he's low, he's dead. That's why I recommend for Marios to recover early.

 

[Inferno3044]

I'm with A2 on this. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be hard to pull off. His aerial mobility isnt that good. If it was better, it would be a very good edgeguarding tool and it would be good against us.

Wow, Mario's fsmash sounds like it's by far the best move Mario has. In fact, it could possibly be one of the best moves in the game!

It's just a good move. It's his best kill move and has extremely good range.

Again, you're not giving Ike much credit here. His Fair has considerable range, so if Mario air dodges it while he's low, he's dead. That's why I recommend for Marios to recover early.

Air dodging Ike is just bad in general. If I saw a fair coming I would either Uair, Nair, or UpB depending on my position. But seriously just don't air dodge against Ike. You could be doing something much more effectively like an aerial or fireball.

Btw, I just wanna put out things like how our Dsmash will work very effectively to get Ike away at a low angle. It's really quick for a smash (frame 5) and a really good GTFO move though it is slower than Ike's jab (frame 3 I think). I'm not sure which has more range though. I think it might be close or Ike's is a little longer. Mario's jab is faster than Ike's as well (Frame 2). Like seriously, Mario's frame data is just so much better than Ike's that it can be 60:40. I think it's 60:40 on stages with platforms like BF and YI brawl and even on Delfino due to water planking and maybe japes, but I don't know if you can water plank there. I know this is obvious, but do not go on Pirate Ship. You can't do a thing against his water planking there.

 

[Kimchi]

I'm with A2 on this. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be hard to pull off. His aerial mobility isnt that good. If it was better, it would be a very good edgeguarding tool and it would be good against us.

It's not too hard to pull off for Ike as long as he knows when to go offstage. I've done it to Kirin's Mario many times and he's become so accustomed to it that he recovers relatively early, or he reverse cape stalls and hits me with a Bair before I can Fair.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Again, you're not giving Ike much credit here. His Fair has considerable range, so if Mario air dodges it while he's low, he's dead. That's why I recommend for Marios to recover early.

If Mario DIs well, this is a non-issue.

Ike can't do crap to anyone offstage that DIs well. His stuff has good range, but it's all too slow, and his ending lag is awful, meaning he has no followups offstage. Everything he does offstage is pretty easy to avoid on reaction provided you aren't stupid with your midair jump(s). And because he can't go that far offstage, that means the range at which he can edgeguard is ultimately a lot more limited than that of most characters not named Link, Olimar, or Ivysaur.

 

[Matador]

Again, you're not giving Ike much credit here. His Fair has considerable range, so if Mario air dodges it while he's low, he's dead. That's why I recommend for Marios to recover early.

Yeah, it's definitely a possibility and something to exploit against Mario. Just keep in mind that we're tossing out fireballs, capestalling, maybe even fludding you back onstage to protect our descent. If you screw up, you're in a VERY bad position and most likely will be gimped in the process.

 

[Inferno3044]

It's not too hard to pull off for Ike as long as he knows when to go offstage. I've done it to Kirin's Mario many times and he's become so accustomed to it that he recovers relatively early, or he reverse cape stalls and hits me with a Bair before I can Fair.

This has nothing to do with anything MU wise, but you live in Fort Lee. I'm from Teaneck. I could probably get to your place in like 5 minutes.

 

[Matador]

Uh oh....Challenge son! HOW U GON ACK?

Edit: Speaking of which...

lmao... i would love to play one of you Mario people


Matador aren't you in md/va. come get ***** sometime

GET 2 STOCKED SON! HOW U GON ACK?

 

[Kimchi]

If Mario DIs well, this is a non-issue.

Ike can't do crap to anyone offstage that DIs well. His stuff has good range, but it's all too slow, and his ending lag is awful, meaning he has no followups offstage. Everything he does offstage is pretty easy to avoid on reaction provided you aren't stupid with your midair jump(s). And because he can't go that far offstage, that means the range at which he can edgeguard is ultimately a lot more limited than that of most characters not named Link, Olimar, or Ivysaur.

What does DI have to do with an edgeguarding game? DI refers to directional influence, a factor that plays into whether people survive or not. Also, DIing well is incorrect. The proper phrase would be utilizing DI well. Let's say the situation was this: Mario's at 120%, Ike's at any %. Ike hits Mario with a Ftilt and let's say the Mario is able to horizontally momentum cancel well enough to survive. He'll probably be up high in the air, and he'll be looking to recover low. Assuming that he'll use his double jump, how can you say that Ike's walkoff Fair will be a non-issue? If Mario gets hit with it, his stock is gone, and it's not like Mario wants to recover high. DI a fresh Fair at 130%+, I'd honestly like to see you try. Ike also doesn't even have to go that far to use a walkoff Fair against Mario since Mario's recovery move is a relatively short vertical movement. I'm really getting the feeling that you're simply downplaying everything Ike has.

I was simply providing a warning to recover as early as possible, because walkoff Fair can present a serious problem. It's rare because of the reasons that Matador provided, but it's still a possibility for Ike to kill Mario if he's sent offstage.

 

[Matador]

I think A2 was referring to when you DI so well that you are high enough to make it back to the stage without using your upB and you won't need to recover low. Could be wrong though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What does DI have to do with an edgeguarding game? DI refers to directional influence, a factor that plays into whether people survive or not. Also, DIing well is incorrect. The proper phrase would be utilizing DI well. Let's say the situation was this: Mario's at 120%, Ike's at any %. Ike hits Mario with a Ftilt and let's say the Mario is able to horizontally momentum cancel well enough to survive. He'll probably be up high in the air, and he'll be looking to recover low. Assuming that he'll use his double jump, how can you say that Ike's walkoff Fair will be a non-issue? If Mario gets hit with it, his stock is gone, and it's not like Mario wants to recover high. DI a fresh Fair at 130%+, I'd honestly like to see you try. Ike also doesn't even have to go that far to use a walkoff Fair against Mario since Mario's recovery move is a relatively short vertical movement. I'm really getting the feeling that you're simply downplaying everything Ike has.

I was simply providing a warning to recover as early as possible, because walkoff Fair can present a serious problem. It's rare because of the reasons that Matador provided, but it's still a possibility for Ike to kill Mario if he's sent offstage.

Firstoff, Mario doesn't even have to recover low.

He has enough tools to mix up his landing so that it is very unpredictable. His recovery is EXCELLENT when you DI well because he has a lot of mixup options.

If the Mario user correctly DIs, he never has to use his midair jump to make it back. On the other hand, I should point out that Mario's midair jump is very good. It has good height and distance, and assuming that the Mario user knows when to use it, you're not punishing Mario with a walkoff F-air.

It's as simple as that. And Ike is one of the worst characters in the game at punishing high recoveries, and his edgeguard game in general is mediocre since he has no offstage followups.

If you think I'm downplaying Ike, it's merely because he's one of the most predictable characters in the game by far, and he doesn't have crazy low ending lag or high mobility to compensate for this. That's what is fundamentally wrong with Ike. His entire metagame is basically based on two attacks since everything else he has is unsafe, and his followup game in general is extremely limited. Ike to me is one of the biggest disappointments in competitive Brawl. I could write an essay about how he's a badass character from his game and such, but in this game, he's both linear and terrible, which is an extremely fail combination to say at the least.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If you think I'm downplaying Ike, it's merely because he's one of the most predictable characters in the game by far, and he doesn't have crazy low ending lag or high mobility to compensate for this. That's what is fundamentally wrong with Ike. His entire metagame is basically based on two attacks since everything else he has is unsafe, and his followup game in general is extremely limited. Ike to me is one of the biggest disappointments in competitive Brawl. I could write an essay about how he's a badass character from his game and such, but in this game, he's both linear and terrible, which is an extremely fail combination to say at the least.

And this ladies and gentleman, is why I laugh at anyone who takes A2 seriously in any way shape or form.

If "everything but two moves are unusable", why does almost every move in Ike's arsenal get used successfully at high levels? (Fsmash is in the usable category I might add. For crying loud, watch a few of Kirk's or San's matches. The only usable moves are QD for attacking, and Dsmash) I'll give you a hint: he isn't nearly as bad as you seem to want to believe.

 

[Kimchi]

Firstoff, Mario doesn't even have to recover low.

He has enough tools to mix up his landing so that it is very unpredictable. His recovery is EXCELLENT when you DI well because he has a lot of mixup options.

If the Mario user correctly DIs, he never has to use his midair jump to make it back. On the other hand, I should point out that Mario's midair jump is very good. It has good height and distance, and assuming that the Mario user knows when to use it, you're not punishing Mario with a walkoff F-air.

It's as simple as that. And Ike is one of the worst characters in the game at punishing high recoveries, and his edgeguard game in general is mediocre since he has no offstage followups.

If you think I'm downplaying Ike, it's merely because he's one of the most predictable characters in the game by far, and he doesn't have crazy low ending lag or high mobility to compensate for this. That's what is fundamentally wrong with Ike. His entire metagame is basically based on two attacks since everything else he has is unsafe, and his followup game in general is extremely limited. Ike to me is one of the biggest disappointments in competitive Brawl. I could write an essay about how he's a badass character from his game and such, but in this game, he's both linear and terrible, which is an extremely fail combination to say at the least.

It's apparent that you've never played any good Ikes then.
EDIT: That doesn't mean you should downplay everything that Ike has. It's apparent that it's obviously blinded you from some of the points that the Ikes made and downplaying a character should be the farthest factor in any matchup.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've played Iketakeda before. Once I started camping him, he went MK on me.

The only reason why guys like Kirk can be successful with Ike is because Kirk is insanely good. Ally even makes Captain Falcon look good when he's clearly one of the worst characters in this game. Good players find ways to be creative and make use of the moveset before them, but that doesn't mean that those ways of being creative can't be soundly countered by someone who knows what to do. Sure, I mean it isn't impossible for Ike to F-smash when someone makes a certain spacing mistake, but again, it basically involves calling on someone screwing up. That is bad.

Against someone who actually knows what Ike can do, he really doesn't have many safe attacks at all. And most of his attacks have bad startup.

 

[vato_break]

I play this guy name slayn on a daily Basis..http://allisbrawl.com/history.aspx?id=8640 <-tourney record

anyway this guy i play is really legit he beat beat m2k in ike dittos at SCSA#4 and beat praxis in a mm

Mario vs ike is 55:45 marios favor. mario should not sidestep in this match up at all as ike hella ***** it. Marios jab can clash with ikes but as your pushed away ikes jab combo will win. Mario vs. ike is really who can make better reads and space better.Mario can camp ike i suppose but, that really doesn't change the ratio too much. The match can go either way when stage dependant and who ever has better control on that stage.Ike is kinda easy to gimp, sometimes,ike can recover low with upB and be able to avoid a fludd gimp so a cape gimp might be more reliable.Don't airdodge into ike ever epecially if ike is chargeing a upsmash.Mario should be going for gimps rather than kills, it's kinda hard to kill ike(if he has good di).You can simple block alot of his attacks and punish. Fludd ledge canceling will auto ko ike.Fludding ike near the edge while he is jab comboing might kill him too. dair ***** ike.

 

[hippiedude92]

Is it really possible to get out of Ike's jab cancel into more jabs? I was mashing up b against Ryo and it didn't do anything.

Also, the average human reaction time is 12 frames I think. For Smash Bros. players it should be moderately faster though.

I think for smash bros, it should be around frames 4~7 for them to react, should be easy to ps things like Marth's Fair and such.

l think ike's do alot better if they just do forced stage return and just hit mario out of his RCO lag. that's just imo. Ikes have the weirdest ways of killing you, they look like they do some fancy stuff, but they're just gonna do falling upair offstage and still recover lol.

still bragging rights on kirin beating inuii's ike in tourney set k.

 

[BoTastic!]

Vato_break has it pretty much summed up.

 

[A2ZOMG]

l think ike's do alot better if they just do forced stage return and just hit mario out of his RCO lag. that's just imo. Ikes have the weirdest ways of killing you, they look like they do some fancy stuff, but they're just gonna do falling upair offstage and still recover lol.

I don't consider it particularly weird. Since it lingers, it covers pretty large area. Factoring the opponent's DI and stale moves, it's almost always more likely to kill than F-air.

 

[Kimchi]

I think for smash bros, it should be around frames 4~7 for them to react, should be easy to ps things like Marth's Fair and such.

l think ike's do alot better if they just do forced stage return and just hit mario out of his RCO lag. that's just imo. Ikes have the weirdest ways of killing you, they look like they do some fancy stuff, but they're just gonna do falling upair offstage and still recover lol.

still bragging rights on kirin beating inuii's ike in tourney set k.

What is this RCO lag that's being mentioned? Oh and Kirin knows my Ike is better =].

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario retains landing lag when sweetspotting the ledge with Up-B. RECOVERY CARRYOVER LAG as it is called.

The lag animation is ignored when he lands with specials like Fireball or FLUDD charge stance until the next time he jumps, and it is eliminated by landing with an aerial attack.

Basically if he's stupid enough to air dodge, punish him.

It's also worth knowing about against Marth, Luigi, Captain Falcon, and Ganondorf if I recall.

 

[Inferno3044]

Kimchi. I should play you some time. I can get to Fort Lee in like 5 minutes.

Btw Ike discussion over.

 

[Javon89]

So since the disscusion for Mario vs. Ike is over......
Let's do Zero Suit Samus!
EDIT:Oh....I see you guys already done that

 

[:mad:]

We've already done Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Inferno3044]

Here are the characters not discussed on this thread in order of placement on the tier list.

Fox
Wolf
Shiek
Zelda
Yoshi
C. Falcon
Ganon

I might wanna rediscuss Olimar because there are some things i know now that make me change my view of that.

 

[Javon89]

Zelda is a good, should we start on that one?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Zelda is good at being a homo. She can't actually approach, but she can prevent you from fireball camping.

She has a ridiculous spotdodge and some super safe kill moves, so in general, this matchup is going to last a long time. Your goal is to simply poke her in between attacks.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Mario wins this matchup by camping with Fireballs and countering her whiffed approaches with fsmash

 

[Javon89]

Well that was short summary, I hate Zelda cause usually when I play my friends this happens; I get launched off by a really powerful,but I don't get KO'ed cause I DI'ed, then they throw a Din's fire to KO me, that's really homo.

 

[Veggi]

Just nair as the Din's comes by, the nair will beat it out so you don't take damage. Din's fire shouldn't be hitting unless there are some epic mind games involved.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Din's Fire sucks, but it does stop you from fireball camping.

It's very easy to avoid. The main problem is you can't fireball while she uses Dins Fire because it travels faster than fireballs.

Even though she's lightweight, it's a grind for anything to happen in this matchup since she'll be aiming to keep you out by spacing F-smash, which is a safe attack. She'll also spotdodge a lot, which makes hitting her in general annoyingly tedious.

Getting her offstage makes the matchup infinitely easier. Edgehog and if she uses Up-B, either this will kill her, or you get a free hit.

I dislike this matchup a lot in low tiers due to how slow it is. In almost any other matchup in low tiers besides Mario dittos, it's much easier to establish a rhythm and gain momentum. Vs Zelda...for the most part while she's on stage, all you can really do is just poke her.

And of course, charge FLUDD and look out for opportunities to gimp Din's Fire.

 

[Inferno3044]

She doesn't have that many good damage racking moves, but some of her moves pack a punch. Her best kill move is Usmash but it's kinda obvious when she will use it. You can survive Fsmash to good percentages (150% with good DI) but be aware that it can shield poke pretty well. Her Dsmash can send you at a bad angle if poorly DI'd but it shouldn't be too big a problem. Her Uair is really strong, but it's not hard to see coming. Her spike is pretty good and a sweetspotted Fair or Bair can mean trouble. Her kill moves are safe as well. Honestly, kill power is most of what's going for Zelda.

For Mario, Zelda can't approach and she can't keep you from not approaching. I guess she has Din's Fire, but cape and nair beat it. Though her spot dodge is good, but it shouldn't be that big a problem. Just punish her if she does it a lot. Zelda is gimpable, but it's not that easy. If you cape her during the teleport animation, she will go the other way and die. Don't rely on it, but if you see a chance take it. We can rack up damage well with our quick aerials and she dies at kinda low percents. Dsmash works really well to get her off as well as use aerials. As A2 said, she can prevent us from fireball camping, but you can throw out a couple of fireballs at the right time. Get kinda close to her, but far enough away so that she can't hit you can just space with fireballs. It can also be annoying that she can reflect them, but she will definitely take some damage from them and you shouldnt take damage from them if used intelligently. FIHL works well on her which hasn't been brought up in discussions recently. Fsmash should kill her at low percents (around 100%) and Usmash a little later.

Stage wise, I would not want to fight Zelda on Halberd. It has a really low ceiling and she has really good vertical kill power. I would probably go to YI, BF, RC. Maybe Japes if it's legal due to it's really high ceiling. Platforms will really help, but the lack of them won't hurt you.

I think it's 60:40 Mario, but I wanna see what the Zelda's have to say.

Mario wins this matchup by camping with Fireballs and countering her whiffed approaches with fsmash

Well said

 

[zeldspazz]

She doesn't have that many good damage racking moves, but some of her moves pack a punch. Her best kill move is Usmash but it's kinda obvious when she will use it. You can survive Fsmash to good percentages (150% with good DI) but be aware that it can shield poke pretty well. Her Dsmash can send you at a bad angle if poorly DI'd but it shouldn't be too big a problem. Her Uair is really strong, but it's not hard to see coming. Her spike is pretty good and a sweetspotted Fair or Bair can mean trouble. Her kill moves are safe as well. Honestly, kill power is most of what's going for Zelda.

Zelda's generally dont kill with Usmash that option, its huge for stopping midair approaches, and packs some good damage (17 uncharged iirc). Really hard to SDI too. Fsmash is has good range and is safe on block with a low cooldown and its shields decently. If you're above 90% and you get hit with Dsmash, you're gonna have a really hard time getting back to the stage. It comes out in frame 4 and when fresh it's deadly. Seriously. The thing with uair is that most people airdodge on reaction and all Zelda has to do is wait out the airdodge and punish. It's the strongest uair in the entire game, it hurts if it hits you. Fair/Bair shouldnt be your huge problem here, considering Mario's too short to bair OoS. Watch out for a surprise Ftilt kill too at high percentages, its got hax range. Learn to hate dtilt. Leads into everything.

Basically, Zelda has the advantage on the ground, due to more range, safe moves, and power.

For Mario, Zelda can't approach and she can't keep you from not approaching. I guess she has Din's Fire, but cape and nair beat it.

Too true.

Though her spot dodge is good, but it shouldn't be that big a problem. Just punish her if she does it a lot. Zelda is gimpable, but it's not that easy. If you cape her during the teleport animation, she will go the other way and die. Don't rely on it, but if you see a chance take it.

Spotdodge is bad when you got dsmash coming out at frame 4. If mario gets inside though, keep the pressure on and **** her. Its the best shot you have on the ground. Zelda wont generall fall for capeing, she'll probably FW from far away and go for the edge sweetspot, so edgeguard like a pro.

We can rack up damage well with our quick aerials and she dies at kinda low percents. Dsmash works really well to get her off as well as use aerials. As A2 said, she can prevent us from fireball camping, but you can throw out a couple of fireballs at the right time. Get kinda close to her, but far enough away so that she can't hit you can just space with fireballs. It can also be annoying that she can reflect them, but she will definitely take some damage from them and you shouldnt take damage from them if used intelligently. FIHL works well on her which hasn't been brought up in discussions recently. Fsmash should kill her at low percents (around 100%) and Usmash a little later.

Zelda's light and floaty, dont be expecting too much uair/utilt juggling. Your fireballs are actually pretty useful in this matchup, know the range though. She can outcamp you and reflect you at certain range, but not at others. Generall try for mid-range spamming, if she tries to NL you can punish the cooldown, and if she takes the hits youre close enough to punish/grab if she shields. Mario's Fsmash has great range, use it up close at kill percentages, the animation mindgames me to this day too lol.

Stage wise, I would not want to fight Zelda on Halberd. It has a really low ceiling and she has really good vertical kill power. I would probably go to YI, BF, RC. Maybe Japes if it's legal due to it's really high ceiling. Platforms will really help, but the lack of them won't hurt you.

Dont take Zelda to anywhere with platforms like BF. She's killer with them. Halberd actually isnt that great, she cant sweetspot the ledge well and you can uair spam under the stage a bit. I agree with YI, iirc its a great Mario stage and a not so good Zelda stage.

I think it's 60:40 Mario, but I wanna see what the Zelda's have to say.

*Was thinking the other way around*

Looks like we got work to do xD

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I think it's more around 65-35 or 70-30 Mario's favour. As long as Mario spaces his fsmash, he should rarely, if ever, get hit.