The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[bobson]

You can't get rid of this *****. She just keeps ****ing floating back to the stage like an *******. ****ing ungimpable ***** ****.

 

[Veggi]

Now you know how I feel.

 

[stealth3654]

Hey everyone!

The Sheik boards are currently discussing the Mario vs. Sheik match-up here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226389&page=53.

Any contributions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks .

 

[Matador]

Repeating matchup discussions is becoming...annoying.

Especially when nothing's even changed since the first time we did it -_-

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach Vs Mario is in Peach Favor. But not by alot. 55:45 Peach.

You can kill Peach well with a Fsmash ONLY if it is a critical hit. If it isnt, Fsmash is not killing her well enough. Really since she dies quickly off the top. Dsmash won't really kill her early nether. your real solid kill move on Peach would be upsmash. And that is not easy to just land on her.

I say in this match up Peach has better, suitiable killing options than Mario. Fair when fresh can lauch Mario at good distance (if it does not kill you) and thanks to your recovery, you won't be able to make it back most of the time. Same with Bair. If I would somehow know you would make it back, I can gimp you out of it with floating and turnips. I bluff you and float near the edge, then grab it when you have no choice but to Up-B

A good jab game works well on Peach. I don't see many Mario players doing this to Peach. It helps alot. And a good mix up of fire balls. It can slow her done since she has a good pressure game and a quick fighter up close.

Peach can make it really hard for you to get inside her with her spacing and evasion. Mario does not have range infront of him in the air that can out range her Fair and Bair. His Bair is his only shot at this.

Don't even think about trying to gimp Peach, you are seriously wasting your time trying to.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Peach Vs Mario is in Peach Favor. But not by alot. 55:45 Peach.

You can kill Peach well with a Fsmash ONLY if it is a critical hit. If it isnt, Fsmash is not killing her well enough. Really since she dies quickly off the top. Dsmash won't really kill her early nether. your real solid kill move on Peach would be upsmash. And that is not easy to just land on her.

I say in this match up Peach has better, suitiable killing options than Mario. Fair when fresh can lauch Mario at good distance (if it does not kill you) and thanks to your recovery, you won't be able to make it back most of the time. Same with Bair. If I would somehow know you would make it back, I can gimp you out of it with floating and turnips. I bluff you and float near the edge, then grab it when you have no choice but to Up-B

A good jab game works well on Peach. I don't see many Mario players doing this to Peach. It helps alot. And a good mix up of fire balls. It can slow her done since she has a good pressure game and a quick fighter up close.

Peach can make it really hard for you to get inside her with her spacing and evasion. Mario does not have range infront of him in the air that can out range her Fair and Bair. His Bair is his only shot at this.

Don't even think about trying to gimp Peach, you are seriously wasting your time trying to.

Uhh, matchup is still 50/50, not in Peach's favor, Mario's strength is better than Peach's strength. We rather not gimp to Peach unless we get lucky. We'll keep spamming fireballs when every time you Peach players come back to recover. We'll mostly use fireballs and cape on Peach players due to annoying gameplay and spam projectile fest. Mario does better combos than Peach, Peach players needs turnips to set us up for a combo or kill. Don't underestimate Mario. We know that Peach's range is better than Mario. lol

 

[:mad:]

Uhh, matchup is still 50/50, not in Peach's favor, Mario's strength is better than Peach's strength. We rather not gimp to Peach unless we get lucky. We'll keep spamming fireballs when every time you Peach players come back to recover. We'll mostly use fireballs and cape on Peach players due to annoying gameplay and spam projectile fest. Mario does better combos than Peach, Peach players needs turnips to set us up for a combo or kill. Don't underestimate Mario. We know that Peach's range is better than Mario. lol

How can a 50:50 be in either characters favour?

It's either 50:50 or a Peach advantage. Also, if we're talking about linking together moves (chaining, not comboing), I'd give that to Peach as well. Peaches don't need turnips to set up kill moves. Have you played any notable Peaches, Lil' G? It sounds like you don't know the matchup.

 

[vato_break]

peach...she can combo mario way easier than we can combo her...all we can do is bair/fireball spam and sometimes keep her away with fludd, her di is amazing and fsmash is hard to land unless you do it out of a dair..you can't gimp her but, she can gimp us. she racks up damage faster but, takes a bit longer to kill us .probably 60/40 peaches favor.

 

[Nanaki]

Peach can make it really hard for you to get inside her

Prude *****.

For nospam: Peach doesn't have much trouble approaching Mario, and once there, combos hard. She gimps him better than he can gimp her, and he has a hard time landing any sort of KO move. Really, you have to outplay your opponent by a fair bit to win as Mario. As such, I'd say 40/60 Peach - winnable, but hard.

 

[Matador]

For nospam: Peach doesn't have much trouble approaching Mario, and once there, combos hard. She gimps him better than he can gimp her, and he has a hard time landing any sort of KO move. Really, you have to outplay your opponent by a fair bit to win as Mario. As such, I'd say 40/60 Peach - winnable, but hard.

*smacks Scorptile on the hand*

Bad Scorptile. BAAAD Scorptile! You forgot to tell BOTH sides of the matchup. I'll let you correct your mistake, but this is the LAST time!

 

[Dark.Pch]

Uhh, matchup is still 50/50, not in Peach's favor, Mario's strength is better than Peach's strength. We rather not gimp to Peach unless we get lucky. We'll keep spamming fireballs when every time you Peach players come back to recover. We'll mostly use fireballs and cape on Peach players due to annoying gameplay and spam projectile fest. Mario does better combos than Peach, Peach players needs turnips to set us up for a combo or kill. Don't underestimate Mario. We know that Peach's range is better than Mario. lol

Tell me something. How easy it is for you to land a sweetspot Fsmash? Then ask yourself how easy that would be to land it on Peach. Think about that. Your killing strength is not better than Peach.

Also, what is the point of spamming fire balls when I recover if they won't touch me at all? Did you for get I can recover high? And nothing you can do about it. Your firballs stay grounded. You launch them in the air they fall right to the ground. Your fireballs are just about useless. Also Peach can just short hop, dair your fire balls or jab them while moving closer to you if you wanna spam/camp. When your shoot one, the cool down time of the move is not quick. So I have time to get inside. Or I can just float over them.

And just what will the cape do to me here?

Peach can combo with out turnips. I can do it with a Jab. With Dair. With a Grab. Ground floated air attacks (Yea you read that right) and Dtilt. Heck, even Uairs. Who was the person that told you Peach needs a turnip to combo? And Peach combos Peach better than Mario. And racks up damage better than Mario.

Don't YOU underestimate Peach. I suggest you take some time to learn about my character before saying stuff like this or bother with this discussion.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't get the side that says this is in Peach's favor, but whatever. U-smash and Up-B are ridiculously awesome, both being good out of shield options and the former also being a great KO move against her, and F-smash outranges her (and unlike what Dark Pch says, it KOs quite fine when sourspotted). Her F-air is stupidly safe, but also easily blockable on reaction, and if she's trying really hard to space it, that's more opportunity to camp.

Also, I never actually get gimped in this matchup. She can't do much to a high recovery since her jumps don't go very high. I usually DI hits especially those from her F-air pretty well, so I tend to survive to pretty high percents if she doesn't get the KO by edgeguarding with an aerial.

She's also that one character you can just randomly run up and U-air against by predicting jumps. Peach almost never uses aerials on the first frame possible because this is not the optimal way for her to space, so you can use that to your advantage to pressure her. Similarly, if she's at a KO percent, running up and Up-smashing on predicted jumps is also extremely good.

And Dark Pch, you're just making random factual errors in the matchup analysis. Sweetspotting ISN'T an issue for Mario at all.

 

[BoTastic!]

Sweetspotting ISN'T an issue for Mario at all.

If I can hit Wario with Fsmash I can hit anyone. Especially peach. I'm with Matador, rediscussing this is ******** nothing has changed since the last time we debated this match up. This is still 50:50. Also using Peach myself as much as Mario, I know this match better than a lot of people.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I don't get the side that says this is in Peach's favor, but whatever. U-smash and Up-B are ridiculously awesome, both being good out of shield options and the former also being a great KO move against her, and F-smash outranges her (and unlike what Dark Pch says, it KOs quite fine when sourspotted). Her F-air is stupidly safe, but also easily blockable on reaction, and if she's trying really hard to space it, that's more opportunity to camp.

Also, I never actually get gimped in this matchup. She can't do much to a high recovery since her jumps don't go very high. I usually DI hits especially those from her F-air pretty well, so I tend to survive to pretty high percents if she doesn't get the KO by edgeguarding with an aerial.

She's also that one character you can just randomly run up and U-air against by predicting jumps. Peach almost never uses aerials on the first frame possible because this is not the optimal way for her to space, so you can use that to your advantage to pressure her. Similarly, if she's at a KO percent, running up and Up-smashing on predicted jumps is also extremely good.

And Dark Pch, you're just making random factual errors in the matchup analysis. Sweetspotting ISN'T an issue for Mario at all.

Camping a Peach really won't do much. Your fireballs are not hard to get by at all. The Marios that do well against me are the ones that don't bother trying to camp much. But actually know how to handle Peach up close and in general. If you waste your time trying to camp me, you are actually making it easier for me to beat you. And you give me time to get a turnip and move in with 100+ set ups I can do just by holding a turnip.

Mario hardly has any protection under him. Recover high or low. Peach is one of the best edgeguarders in this game for a reason. And I assure you, you won't always be DI high when you get hit against a Peach that will not use the same typical move over and over to launch you off the stage. And If I save my kill moves, trust me, Mario is done. People seriously under rate her killing power to the max here. it is insane.

And now you wanna base a strat on predicting jumps? Ok then. I'll play along. Mario is one of those characters that I can just run under and upsmash if I know you are gonna jump and kill you with it. And guess what? Usmash>Uair. It also pwns your upsmash. You see how easy thatwas for me? you are not the only one that can just use "prediction" logics in a match up.

And you can't just easliy sweetspot a fsmash on Peach. I have no clue where you got this idea from. The only one making errors is you seriously thinking Mario has this match up. Justwhat do you know about this character and what Peach players have you played to think Mario actually has this match up. Give me the names now.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Camping a Peach really won't do much. Your fireballs are not hard to get by at all. The Marios that do well against me are the ones that don't bother trying to camp much. But actually know how to handle Peach up close and in general. If you waste your time trying to camp me, you are actually making it easier for me to beat you. And you give me time to get a turnip and move in with 100+ set ups I can do just by holding a turnip.

Approaching her defensively however is effective. Interrupting her air game with a fireball gets good results, and shielding and Up-Bing out of shield punishes most of her stuff on block. Using FLUDD to snuff her attacks is also a very viable strategy.

Mario hardly has any protection under him. Recover high or low. Peach is one of the best edgeguarders in this game for a reason. And I assure you, you won't always be DI high when you get hit against a Peach that will not use the same typical move over and over to launch you off the stage. And If I save my kill moves, trust me, Mario is done. People seriously under rate her killing power to the max here. it is insane.

There is not much point in not DIing up against Peach really, so it's a fairly simple matter. The only time DIing to the side matters is against the Pan F-smash and U-smash, which are both difficult moves to land. More difficult to land than Mario's KO moves for that matter.

Mario can get to the ground quite fine anyway with various mobility options like Cape, not to mention the gayness of air dodges in general.

And now you wanna base a strat on predicting jumps? Ok then. I'll play along. Mario is one of those characters that I can just run under and upsmash if I know you are gonna jump and kill you with it. And guess what? Usmash>Uair. It also pwns your upsmash. You see how easy thatwas for me? you are not the only one that can just use "prediction" logics in a match up.

The scenario I stated works when Peach is doing spacing tricks in general regardless of the aerial she chooses. Whether she chooses F-air, B-air, or D-air, she's almost never spacing it on the first frame possible. The only time Peach does aerials on the first frame possible is out of shield, which is completely irrelevant to the matter I'm explaining now.

Running up and Up-smashing isn't simple against Mario unlike how it is simple to run up and U-air Peach. One of his favorite pressure strategies is D-air, which comes out super fast, lingers, and immediately cancels into another aerial attack.

And you can't just easliy sweetspot a fsmash on Peach. I have no clue where you got this idea from. The only one making errors is you seriously thinking Mario has this match up. Justwhat do you know about this character and what Peach players have you played to think Mario actually has this match up. Give me the names now.

Don't be stupid. This isn't Melee. The difference between KO percents on Mario's F-smash sweetspotted and non-sweetspotted is quite small in Brawl, only like 10%.

As for players, I know I've played TheHypnotist and Ramakazi before, and then there are other fairly competent players whose names I don't remember.

Also as for her KO power...F-air is nice, but not all that powerful. Fresh, only KOs in like the 120s-130s, which is pretty weak for a KO move. It has the advantage of crazy low ending lag however, but it's also blockable on reaction.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Approaching her defensively however is effective. Interrupting her air game with a fireball gets good results, and shielding and Up-Bing out of shield punishes most of her stuff on block. Using FLUDD to snuff her attacks is also a very viable strategy.

Fireballs won't end my air game if they can't touch me. All FLUDD does is push me back. Thats it. Then what happens? The approaching of both characters restarts again.

There is not much point in not DIing up against Peach really, so it's a fairly simple matter. The only time DIing to the side matters is against the Pan F-smash and U-smash, which are both difficult moves to land. More difficult to land than Mario's KO moves for that matter.

DI up just makes it a lil less easier to end you then if you was to be lauched off the side. Peach can still keep you out the stage. Way better than you can to her. And with fresh moves, You won't be living long. It is not hard to deal with characters over her. Really one like Mario

The scenario I stated works when Peach is doing spacing tricks in general regardless of the aerial she chooses. Whether she chooses F-air, B-air, or D-air, she's almost never spacing it on the first frame possible. The only time Peach does aerials on the first frame possible is out of shield, which is completely irrelevant to the matter I'm explaining now.

Then you seriously never seen a Peach that can space like hell such as me. Ask anyone that has placed me. You seriously have no idea at all.

Running up and Up-smashing isn't simple against Mario unlike how it is simple to run up and U-air Peach. One of his favorite pressure strategies is D-air, which comes out super fast, lingers, and immediately cancels into another aerial attack.

Then you seriously don't know anything about Peach for that matter. I can do this to just about anyone. Also A running up air is not that simple since you are basing this off PREDICTING the player to jump. If you are basing something on luck, it does not make it simple, you are just hoping it will hit. There is a big difference in that.

Don't be stupid. This isn't Melee. The difference between KO percents on Mario's F-smash sweetspotted and non-sweetspotted is quite small in Brawl, only like 10%.

A sweetspot Fsmash has more kocnked back and a good one to kill Peach well. I get hit with that move fresh not sweetspotted and I don't die.

Don't be coward and give me the names of these Peach players you played to make you think Mario has this match up. Quit dodging the question.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Then you seriously never seen a Peach that can space like hell such as me. Ask anyone that has placed me. You seriously have no idea at all.

You obviously missed my edit, but Ramakazi is pretty good and around my skill level if I recall. I've played TheHypnotist before and I thought he was overall decent too. I've also seen the way Sky plays.

Then you seriously don't know anything about Peach for that matter. I can do this to just about anyone. Also A running up air is not that simple since you are basing this off PREDICTING the player to jump. If you are basing something on luck, it does not make it simple, you are just hoping it will hit. There is a big difference in that.

It's not just prediction, but conditioning and learning your opponent's spacing. As quick as most jumps are, when I'm playing seriously, I have been able to actually react to jumps and if I'm in range, I already know that running up and U-airing/U-smashing is going to hit if the opponent is not someone like Metaknight who has little disadvantage to attacking on the first frame possible.

You can land Up-smash on Mario if you can catch onto the way he likes to fullhop D-air pretty much, although he can get tricky by using Cape to stay out of range of it.

A sweetspot Fsmash has more kocnked back and a good one to kill Peach well. I get hit with that move fresh not sweetspotted and I don't die.

You're terrible at numbers. And so are your opponents. Yes, sweetspot has more knockback, but it hardly matters when it only takes one extra hit in the first place for non-sweetspot to KO equally well if not better. I actually keep track of KO percents when I play.

 

[Praxis]

It's Peach's favor.

Peach's camping > Mario's camping. She can outspace all his kill moves pretty well and play really safe and he can't hit her well.

55:45 Peach at minumum. Hova, having played Boss, probably has better insights.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You obviously missed my edit, but Ramakazi is pretty good and around my skill level if I recall. I've played TheHypnotist before and I thought he was overall decent too. I've also seen the way Sky plays.

Not to be mean and all to those guys (yet since I am Dark.Pch it sure as hell will come off that way) I am better than these players and these guys are not top Peach players. And I know more about this character then they do. I'm not saying these dudes are bad. But they also don't cut it for your reasons Mario>Peach. You never played a top Peach player that knows this match up at all.

It's not just prediction, but conditioning and learning your opponent's spacing. As quick as most jumps are, when I'm playing seriously, I have been able to actually react to jumps and if I'm in range, I already know that running up and U-airing/U-smashing is going to hit if the opponent is not someone like Metaknight who has little disadvantage to attacking on the first frame possible.

There is a big difference between the characterand the player. You are basing this off the opponent. What if the opponent played to a point you just can't pinn point them. Then guess what will happen. You would then have to go by what you know about the match up and hpe to win by the law of it. Now you pin pointing what the enemy is gonna do. I could play allies snake and know just what he is gonna do and beat his azz for it. Does this mean Peach>Snake? No it does not. You are basing this match up cause YOU can so call tell what the enemy is gonna do. News flash, anyone can do that. Not just you.

You can land Up-smash on Mario if you can catch onto the way he likes to fullhop D-air pretty much, although he can get tricky by using Cape to stay out of range of it.

Just like you can upair a Peach if you can catch onto the way she likes to float or short hop moves although she can be tricky with her spacing and evasion See how that works? Again you rely on catching on to the PLAYER We are talking about the characters, not the players. The players don't make the characters or magically give them abilities to change the flaws or engine of this game. So enough with this logic cause it simply fails. Stick to Peach Vs Mario Not the players behind Peach Vs Mario and the prediction they have or don't have. Cause this means nothing. You keep basing this match up on

"when I'm playing seriously, I have been able to actually react to jumps and if I'm in range, I already know that running up and U-airing/U-smashing is going to hit if the opponent is not someone like Metaknight who has little disadvantage to attacking on the first frame possible"

This is bad. really bad to use in Mario>Peach

You're terrible at numbers. And so are your opponents. Yes, sweetspot has more knockback, but it hardly matters when it only takes one extra hit in the first place for non-sweetspot to KO equally well if not better. I actually keep track of KO percents when I play.

You can keep track of K.O all you want, point is, Peach does not die well if you don't sweet spot that move. So it does make a difference. You neverplayed a Peach athigh levels like a top Peach player who nows this match up. You base most of this on predicting and reactions. You never touched a Peach that can space like hell, you never experience or yet alone know about high level Peach Vs a high level Mario. everything you broughthere just fails. If top level Mario players come here and know the match up and are even telling YOU that this match up is in Peach's Favor, what makes you think you can change that by going on about how you can predict stuff and stop everything? Mario's that are more experienced at this game and skills than you are. Unlike you, I have played top Mario players like boss. So I am not trying to hear this.

Face it, it's done Mario does not have the advantage here. And your prediction or reaction logics on the player (not character) can't change that at all.

 

[Praxis]

Ugh, it's like the Falco thread all over again. >_<

Dark, try not to, y'know...drown out the whole thread this time.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ugh, it's like the Falco thread all over again. >_<

Dark, try not to, y'know...drown out the whole thread this time.

Nothing will happen here. I am just giving this kid a dose of what he been giving me. This is just a debate. Maybe if he quit with the insults then I be a lil nicer. I'm not gonna be nice to people who don't act like it.

This is a simple debate on Peach Vs Mario. Nothing more or less.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I was never insulting you. I'm just telling you exactly as I see it. Everyone gets treated this way by me when I'm seriously discussing stuff. I'm very precise and to the point, so if you make a quantitative error, I don't let it slide.

BO X7 is one of the top Mario's in the world by far, and one of the better Peach players too, and he's also said it's even btw. I never said it was in Mario's favor, just that I don't get why people say it's obviously in Peach's favor at any rate.

The thing about Peach's spacing is that Mario has pretty good run speed and options out of dash. These things help you get in her range when you know she's spacing and punish, and with Mario's fast up-smash and u-air, they are tools that give him advantages in controlling the match. Now honestly, I wouldn't be doing the same thing with someone like ROB or Ganondorf. I'm saying that Mario in particular is good at capitalizing on this type of general spacing.

 

[Praxis]

These things help you get in her range

But, you CAN'T, not if she's retreating. If Peach is playing really safe Mario has really no options to get inside.

Not a lot of Peach players camp hard enough. Mario can shut down and punish many of Peach's approaches, but Peach can camp him extremely hard and has the tools to gain the early lead easier than Mario. Once Peach has the lead, there is very little Mario can do to recover it if Peach simply sits there with a turnip in hand.

 

[A2ZOMG]

But, you CAN'T. If Peach is playing really safe Mario has really no options to get inside.

All her aerials have existent startup except for N-air really. Further emphasized by the fact that the safest way for her to space involves waiting to float at a certain height and THEN spacing an aerial. She's completely safe for the most part when the aerial comes out (F-air mainly) but it's entirely possible to get inside during her startup.

 

[Praxis]

If we throw a turnip and retreat a fair, you don't have that opportunity.

When Peach is holding on to a turnip, she is completely safe, and if you rush is down to prevent another turnip pull, we'll punish you. Not to even bring up Bonewalking's effect on this matchup. Three frame item throw + two frame jab gives us a lot of cover.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I was never insulting you. I'm just telling you exactly as I see it. Everyone gets treated this way by me when I'm seriously discussing stuff. I'm very precise and to the point, so if you make a quantitative error, I don't let it slide.

BO X7 is one of the top Mario's in the world by far, and one of the better Peach players too, and he's also said it's even btw. I never said it was in Mario's favor, just that I don't get why people say it's obviously in Peach's favor at any rate.

The thing about Peach's spacing is that Mario has pretty good run speed and options out of dash. These things help you get in her range when you know she's spacing and punish, and with Mario's fast up-smash and u-air, they are tools that give him advantages in controlling the match. Now honestly, I wouldn't be doing the same thing with someone like ROB or Ganondorf.

See what is in red? You did it yet again.

Me and the others have explained to you 100 times why Peach has this. I seriously got more into this match up the last time I did it here. The reason you just don't see it is cause you never experienced or know anything about how top level Peach players play. Did you know I can space Nairs while floating? Making your uair assult on me useless. A 3 frame spacing move in the air, at any height that I want? There is more to spacing with this character than you will ever know.

Also you are saying that these 2 moves give Mario control of the match up?

- Peach floating
- Peach spacing
- Peach edgegaurding
- Peach Evasion
- Peach Ground floating brinng her air game to the ground if she wants
- Peach turnips. Just holding one leads to MANY things alone. and you are switch on the defensive automatic since you don't want to get hit with one.
-Peach being able to gimp Mario
- Peach outranging Mario
- Stage control with platforms

A Hardcore spacing Peach makes it hard for Mario to touch her or get in range to launch an attack.

I control this match up better than you. 2 Moves that you have to base on predicting your opponent does not give you control of a match. Thats false luck. Learn what it means to control a match up.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Me and the others have explained to you 100 times why Peach has this. I seriously got more into this match up the last time I did it here. The reason you just don't see it is cause you never experienced or know anything about how top level Peach players play. Did you know I can space Nairs while floating? Making your uair assult on me useless. A 3 frame spacing move in the air, at any height that I want? There is more to spacing with this character than you will ever know.

N-air has terrible range and Mario's 4 frame U-air beats it. Or for that matter, it really isn't that good of an option when he's spacing B-air normally.

- Peach floating
- Peach spacing

It's entirely possible to work around these.

- Peach edgegaurding

Not even that big of a deal when Mario knows how to save his midair jump and DI well. And at the edge, Mario is one of the safer characters at edgecamping.

- Peach Ground floating brinng her air game to the ground if she wants

I find this funny considering how easily this can be dealt with since it's directly in Mario's normal range.

- Peach turnips. Just holding one leads to MANY things alone. and you are switch on the defensive automatic since you don't want to get hit with one.

You probably have me here that I honestly underestimate turnips. The more I look at it, the more I realize item tossing is still fundamentally gay.

-Peach being able to gimp Mario

Mario doesn't get gimped very easily if he recovers smart.

- Peach outranging Mario

Peach doesn't clearly outrange Mario at any rate. They have similar range on most attacks, with Mario clearly winning on Smashes, losing a little less on Jab and tilts. F-smash is the reason you're not just going to randomly space on the ground against him, and why you're more likely to try to hover higher. Mario's F-smash is only outranged by Falco, Wolf, and DDD's F-smash in case you didn't know.

- Stage control with platforms

Peach doesn't jump very high, so if you're talking about Battlefield, there isn't much she can really do about the top platform.

A Hardcore spacing Peach makes it hard for Mario to touch her or get in range to launch an attack.

Unless you run out of space to retreat. Mario's defensive game doesn't rely so much on retreating/spacing to be formidable, as opposed to out of shield options, whereas most of the stuff Peach does to be safe involves spacing.

The point is Mario definitely has options in the matchup in almost all situations, and Peach doesn't have too many options when Mario has the lead either.

 

[Razmakazi]

i'd like to think i'm waaaaaaaay better than a2zomg for the record. ;D

 

[Praxis]

Didn't A2ZOMG get three stocked by a Ganondorf?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Didn't A2ZOMG get three stocked by a Ganondorf?

On wifi like a year ago. Nice try. Besides, it was Koskinator...who is ridiculous on wifi. And I was using a character that is terrible on wifi.

 

[Razmakazi]

he's placed well offline too so in all probability he's just another player whose better. ;]

 

[A2ZOMG]

Trust me though, I've gotten a lot better since the last time I went on video uploading sprees.

I discovered recently I'm ridiculously awesome in low tier tournaments. Well, I'll be fair. I think Mario is a little too good for those.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

A... anyway... ^_^;

When recovering and you have to go for the ledge, Fireball at your own risk. Not many Mario players expect this, but when he does this he pretty much opens himself to Toad becoming a VERY lethal edgeguarding tactic. Especially if he doesn't expect it, it can kill Mario at stupid percents where he'd otherwise be living to points that would make Peach players rather upset.

Also, both characters DO have combos/consecutive hits against each other. It's just commonly that Peach, with her better spacing options because of her smaller jump and float, gets them in first to make this a matchup of Mario trying to catch up to Peach.

Both characters can keep the other out, but with Peach's turnips, jab, nair, and other defensive options like fsmash and utilt, the nod here is given to Peach.

KOing is a touchy territory. Mario's recovery is more gimpable than Peach's, so it's more likely that Peach will gimp Mario for a KO than the other way around. Mario's fsmash is much more reliable than Peach's tennis racket, which would keep us in contention if not beat it, his up smash is easier to hit with, though Peach's is more devastating when it hits, and down smash... Not going there. XD

On the ground, Mario has more options. In the AIR... Peach has way more options. But I still have to give the nod to Mario, just because his actual kill moves are more likely to be fresh than our nair, bair, or fair.

Projectile game. Both have good projectiles in this match, but... I give the nod to Peach, here. Her turnips give her more spacing and movement options, has the ability to KO, grant her combo opportunities, edgeguarding, a trump card(bob-omb), a range extension(beam sword), and a shield breaker/stunner(Mr. Saturn). They even help her stay alive since it's her fastest way to momentum cancel. Though they can be used against Peach when grabbed, they're always more readily available to her.

Fireballs(YUM!) are good grounding, chipping tools when Mario is in the ideal spots, and can give Peach pause as to how to get in against him. He also can stay mobile while in the air with them, and at the most ideal can give him openings against Peach. These, however, should not really be helpful with edgeguarding, and his projectiles, too, can be turned against him with Toad if he's either getting too greedy or recovering. (I know, strange, right?) They, too, can be canceled by some of Peach's standard moves, which can leave him in a compromising position if he put too much merit into them. It's because he has less usages and such that I have to give the nod to Peach.

In all, the only category that Mario can outright beat Peach is KOing, from my stance of the matchup. She has a more versatile projectile, better range, better spacing, and better recovery. They both can build up damage quickly on the other, but Peach has better defensive options. It's for reasons like these that I have to give Peach the slight advantage of 55/45. I'd give it higher for Peach, but the advantages Peach has against Mario can be turned against her real quick if she gets too presumptuous.

 

[Praxis]

Everything Mikey said is correct.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Geez. You seriously don't know anything about Peach from how you post do you?

N-air has terrible range and Mario's 4 frame U-air beats it. Or for that matter, it really isn't that good of an option when he's spacing B-air normally.

3-frame move beats a 4 frame move. seems like you are the one that is terrible with numbers.

It's entirely possible to work around these.

Don't BS your way out of this one. Thats is not what I am talking about, you know excatly what I am talking about when I made the list.

Not even that big of a deal when Mario knows how to save his midair jump and DI well. And at the edge, Mario is one of the safer characters at edgecamping.

Ugh. You don't understand anything do you. it is a big dea lwhen you are off the stage against a Peach. A Mario player with half a brain knows this. You seriously think stuff like this is gonna make you safe against Peach and have nothing to worry about. With your recovery, Peach has many ways to get you out that MAKE IT A BIG DEAL.

I find this funny considering how easily this can be dealt with since it's directly in Mario's normal range.

Now you are justbeing foolish. My moves out range yours. How many times need this be said to you. Bring my spacing to the ground. Making it yet, harder to touch me. And the fact I can all my moves don't lag, I can quickly do W/E I WANT after.

Mario doesn't get gimped very easily if he recovers smart.

If the Peach edguards smart and toys with his recover to a point she can force him to recover they way she wan't him too, Mario gets gimped........see how that works? Yet again....

Peach doesn't clearly outrange Mario at any rate. They have similar range on most attacks, with Mario clearly winning on Smashes, losing a little less on Jab and tilts. F-smash is the reason you're not just going to randomly space on the ground against him, and why you're more likely to try to hover higher. Mario's F-smash is only outranged by Falco, Wolf, and DDD's F-smash in case you didn't know.

I can clearly say this. You don't know anything about Peach or this match up to even debate on it. You seriously don't have a say in this after reading this part.

Tipper Golf clubs and tennes rackets Beat Marios Fsmash. My Fair even out ranges your bair. Fair can even out range your beastly fsmash. aiming though is hard so lucky for you, you wont be seeing to many people trying to do that. I have to aim overMarios arm for that matter and be in a spot where your Fsmash can't touch me. Thats hard to do.

Stop BS'ing your character You know Damm well Peach out ranges Mario.

Peach doesn't jump very high, so if you're talking about Battlefield, there isn't much she can really do about the top platform.

Uair says you are wrong. you letting her jumps get the WORST of you? Peach nearly has perfect stage control on battlefield. That stage is my playground.

Unless you run out of space to retreat. Mario's defensive game doesn't rely so much on retreating/spacing to be formidable, as opposed to out of shield options, whereas most of the stuff Peach does to be safe involves spacing.

The point is Mario definitely has options in the matchup in almost all situations, and Peach doesn't have too many options when Mario has the lead either.

You seriously think spacing is the only thing Peach has to be safe? Peach is a DEFENSIVE character. I can be safe by other means thanks to my range, jab game that leads to so much, turnips that leads to so much and my evasion.

Peach has way more options and tools than Mario. Peach is a better character that Mario. And you just can't flat out expect that. You don't know anything about Peach. all that you have said is nonsense. Except your character for what he is. Learn more about Peach cause you know lil to nothing about her at all. I can't belive you played Raz and from playing him, this is what I hear from you, ether he can't fight Mario or he just sangbagged you.

I hear stuff like this from people all the time who talk like you. And those are the people that knowning about a match up or character. Then I have to play them to make them see the light. Dude you are done. You have proven time and time again you don't know anything. Then you try to BS your way out of it. You are not worth debating with what you know. Cause you hardly know anything. You are just a waste of time. Learn something, actually learn something then come back to me.

 

[:mad:]

Good lord, the Peaches are amazing.

Easily the most helpful character board, since most people avoid MU discussions at all costs. <333

 

[Praxis]

Peaches, Invade!

 

[exdia_16]

we will see mario dittos FTW

Peach ***** Mario

the end.

well why dont you come over to erics and test that theory or better yet come to my house this is jerome i got a new place just let ralph know and we can smash

 

[A2ZOMG]

3-frame move beats a 4 frame move. seems like you are the one that is terrible with numbers.

When you're talking about aerials under 7 frames that are nearly the same speed, what matters more is the hitbox. Mario's U-air has a better hixbox. And seriously, the speed only really makes it useful out of shield.

Ugh. You don't understand anything do you. it is a big dea lwhen you are off the stage against a Peach. A Mario player with half a brain knows this. You seriously think stuff like this is gonna make you safe against Peach and have nothing to worry about. With your recovery, Peach has many ways to get you out that MAKE IT A BIG DEAL.

Mario also has many ways of avoiding getting edgeguarded if he has good DI, which I do have.

Now you are justbeing foolish. My moves out range yours. How many times need this be said to you. Bring my spacing to the ground. Making it yet, harder to touch me. And the fact I can all my moves don't lag, I can quickly do W/E I WANT after.

Dark Pch, you obviously haven't actually tested moves. I actually know how hitboxes work.

If the Peach edguards smart and toys with his recover to a point she can force him to recover they way she wan't him too, Mario gets gimped........see how that works? Yet again....

It's not nearly as simple as that. Cape Stalling alone makes it infinitely harder to intercept Mario, and then immediately air dodging after Cape Stalling is a tactic that only the best lingering hitboxes can punish. Mario's edgestall game is also really good so if he makes it to the edge, there isn't much you can do if he's just stalling there due to how safe it is.

Tipper Golf clubs and tennes rackets Beat Marios Fsmash. My Fair even out ranges your bair. Fair can even out range your beastly fsmash. aiming though is hard so lucky for you, you wont be seeing to many people trying to do that. I have to aim overMarios arm for that matter and be in a spot where your Fsmash can't touch me. Thats hard to do.

Again, you know nothing of range in this game, Mario's F-smash outranges IKE'S F-smash for crying out loud, which is something I've proven through careful testing. Most attacks in this game have around 25 frames of ending lag (while Mario's F-smash is frame 15), meaning if I see you use F-smash, all I have to do is reverse F-smash after it ends EVEN IF it is the Golf Club, and it will always punish you. F-air doesn't outrange F-smash either, all you're doing is outspacing it.

This is why Mario's F-smash is so good. It can punish almost anything in this game due to having ridiculous range.

F-air has better priority than B-air and lower ending lag, but there isn't really a point trying to argue it has more range when the difference isn't all that significant as opposed to the situation in when it's used.

Stop BS'ing your character You know Damm well Peach out ranges Mario.

No actually, I'm trying to be objective with actual data, while you're basing everything on biased impression.

I respect you as a player, but seriously, try to actually know what facts and data are. I've actually gone through a lot of trouble learning about Mario's range, something which I know you haven't.

 

[Dark.Pch]

A2ZOMG, I'm done here with you. I'm not gonna get into a debate with you about this. it is seriously pointless. I rather do this with more experienced Mario. This is a waste of time.