The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[Smash G 0 D]

55:45 Mario or 50/50. Samus outranges Mario a lot, and Zair is just rubbing it in. Samus also has better projectiles and better recovery. Mario's got combos and killing moves.

 

[Inferno3044]

55:45 Mario or 50/50. Samus outranges Mario a lot, and Zair is just rubbing it in. Samus also has better projectiles and better recovery. Mario's got combos and killing moves.

Why is lack of range thought of such a big problem in every matchup? Zair is annoying but its possible to get in. Also the she doesnt outrange us by that much. Besides the tether, I like Mario's recovery more since it has invincibility frames and Mario can deal with Samus' projectiles better than she can deal with ours. Didnt you read Xyro's comment?

*xyro enters*

a GOOD Mario beats a GOOD samus 60-40

*xyro leaves*

Done.

Btw take Samus to Frigate or RC when fighting.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Lack of range really needs to stop coming up in match-up discussion involving Mario...if Mario is out ranged he's going to get inside eventually and once he's in he kinda stays there for a while

 

[hippiedude92]

*xyro enters*

a GOOD Mario beats a GOOD samus 60-40

*xyro leaves*

But Papa Xyro... theres no good Marios in Texas D:.. Do u mean GOOD SAMUS as in Xyro status??

 

[Xyro77]

55:45 Mario or 50/50. Samus outranges Mario a lot, and Zair is just rubbing it in. Samus also has better projectiles and better recovery. Mario's got combos and killing moves.

But Papa Xyro... theres no good Marios in Texas D:.. Do u mean GOOD SAMUS as in Xyro status??

*xyro enters*

In texas we have this played named STILTZ and his low tier main(and 2ndary) is Mario. Hes my number one experience against mario(aside from wifi trash).


Mario has some thing MOST characters DO NOT HAVE......a GOOD projectile. Marios fire ball is kep in this match up it to spam samus untill he can get close. Samus spam can only be stopped by perfect powershielding(and even then i have ways to deal with that)and with GOOD SPAM. To defend against your spam i must STOP my spamming and once i stop spamming the field of battle fvors mario cause now nothing is stoping him from comming at samus with full force.

If i attack your shield, you have MULTIPLE options.
Drop shield and
1. jab to grab
2, jab jab jab
3. jab to down smash
4. be lazy and UP+B oos

If my shield is SLIGHTLY WEAKENED you can tornado and it shield pokes. Samus can combo well but marios does more damage and it can be done MUCH easier than samus can. Heck, if you just wanted to be a homo you could space bairs all day long and there is little we can do even if we powershield.

Your cape is only usefull if we CHARGE SHOT while you are close to us. If you do it far away we have time to dodge/shield it/ jump over and zair you.

Samus will get most of her kills on mario by zair gimps and spikes(even if you cape the spike you will die) so all you need to do is make a POINT of staying in the middle of stage and you will do great.

oh one last thing! the MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!! ALmost all samus mains kill with d-tilt and charge shot and f-smash and spike. 99% of the time, fsmash and charge shot are used so much they wont kill early so that leaves us with d-tilt and spike....if you stage on stage alot, spike is kinda worthless so now you just need to deal with d-tilt...now that can be too hard can it? The point of bringing all o fthis up is, mario can kill with more moves and have alot easier time doing it than samus can. I personally believe mario is the 2nd best low tier(ness being first) and it really shows, hes just too **** good.

Stages, when playing samus please ban FD and pkmn 1 and/or any LARGE STAGE. By doing this, you FORCE us to try and spam in close quaters....lol that dont work for samus.

IMO, if you CP jungle japes you will almost make the match-up 70-30 in mario favor. Remember how i told you d-tilt will most likely be our MAIN kill move cause its almost always fresh? LOLOLOLOLOLOL japes wont let samus kill upwards untill like 150-170% with good DI. And since the walls are shorter on the right and left side than most stages AND mario kills horizontally.....dear lord i might start crying.



*xyro leaves hoping his advice doesnt get him wrecked by marios at future tournaments*

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Thanks for the input Xyro. You know just how **** Mario is.

 

[Xyro77]

Thanks for the input Xyro. You know just how **** Mario is.

Hes good in low tier but in mid tier it gets hard and in high and top is VERY hard. To know how **** mario is is to know his limits

 

[FrankPizzi]

*xyro enters*

In texas we have this played named STILTZ and his low tier main(and 2ndary) is Mario. Hes my number one experience against mario(aside from wifi trash).


Mario has some thing MOST characters DO NOT HAVE......a GOOD projectile. Marios fire ball is kep in this match up it to spam samus untill he can get close. Samus spam can only be stopped by perfect powershielding(and even then i have ways to deal with that)and with GOOD SPAM. To defend against your spam i must STOP my spamming and once i stop spamming the field of battle fvors mario cause now nothing is stoping him from comming at samus with full force.

If i attack your shield, you have MULTIPLE options.
Drop shield and
1. jab to grab
2, jab jab jab
3. jab to down smash
4. be lazy and UP+B oos

If my shield is SLIGHTLY WEAKENED you can tornado and it shield pokes. Samus can combo well but marios does more damage and it can be done MUCH easier than samus can. Heck, if you just wanted to be a homo you could space bairs all day long and there is little we can do even if we powershield.

Your cape is only usefull if we CHARGE SHOT while you are close to us. If you do it far away we have time to dodge/shield it/ jump over and zair you.

Samus will get most of her kills on mario by zair gimps and spikes(even if you cape the spike you will die) so all you need to do is make a POINT of staying in the middle of stage and you will do great.

oh one last thing! the MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!! ALmost all samus mains kill with d-tilt and charge shot and f-smash and spike. 99% of the time, fsmash and charge shot are used so much they wont kill early so that leaves us with d-tilt and spike....if you stage on stage alot, spike is kinda worthless so now you just need to deal with d-tilt...now that can be too hard can it? The point of bringing all o fthis up is, mario can kill with more moves and have alot easier time doing it than samus can. I personally believe mario is the 2nd best low tier(ness being first) and it really shows, hes just too **** good.

Stages, when playing samus please ban FD and pkmn 1 and/or any LARGE STAGE. By doing this, you FORCE us to try and spam in close quaters....lol that dont work for samus.

IMO, if you CP jungle japes you will almost make the match-up 70-30 in mario favor. Remember how i told you d-tilt will most likely be our MAIN kill move cause its almost always fresh? LOLOLOLOLOLOL japes wont let samus kill upwards untill like 150-170% with good DI. And since the walls are shorter on the right and left side than most stages AND mario kills horizontally.....dear lord i might start crying.



*xyro leaves hoping his advice doesnt get him wrecked by marios at future tournaments*

Now I'll challenge you again.

 

[Matador]

I personally believe mario is the 2nd best low tier(ness being first) and it really shows, hes just too **** good.

*Grumble Grumble*

 

[Xyro77]

*Grumble Grumble*

Im sorry but i have seen what a good ness can do. Its beyond disgusting. Its just flat out OBSCENE!!!!

 

[Inferno3044]

*xyro enters*

I personally believe mario is the 2nd best low tier(ness being first) and it really shows, hes just too **** good.

Seriously? Ness > Mario? I never thought Ness was that amazing because his recovery is so freaking gimpable. Run into PK thunder and he's somewhat dead. I got ***** by a Ness, but that was on wifi with such a bad lag. It would occasionally freeze for a bit and it took like half a second to execute anything.

IMO, if you CP jungle japes you will almost make the match-up 70-30 in mario favor. .

Japes is banned in NJ. I would CP frigate or RC at from the stages. This went very well and smoothly. 60:40 Mario it is.

EDIT: Is everybody good with the information on this matchup? Are we ready to move on to a different character?

 

[Inferno3044]

I say Pikachu is next. He is now really high on the tier list, so more people might wanna pick him up

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well he doesn't have anything extremely gay on Mario like he does vs some characters.

You camp him slightly better, but he has annoying range once he gets close. You can at least trade with most of his attacks, and he sucks at KOs unless he gets an undiminished Up-smash.

 

[:mad:]

Might as well do Pikachu. I'm starting to do more than page numbers, since I'm getting less and less lazy.

 

[FrankPizzi]

Might as well do Pikachu. I'm starting to do more than page numbers, since I'm getting less and less lazy.

Straked, will you go back on some characters when we finish them all? We barley discussed Lucario, Diddy kong.. and other chars..

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Zelda boards are talking about Mario as a teammate. Please come share your knowledge with us.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7306582#post7306582

 

[Inferno3044]

jw, do you guys wanna stick to lower placed characters or move to someone higher up? If low tier, we should to Lucas. If not, Pika.

Also so we don't have to discuss it again, put the D3 matchup in. They say 65:35 w/o infinite, but i say 60:40.

 

[Matt07]

Hm...Pikachu is...okay for me. I'd prefer to do Lucas over Pikachu though.

 

[The Master of Mario]

"55:45 Mario or 50/50. Samus outranges Mario a lot, and Zair is just rubbing it in. Samus also has better projectiles and better recovery. Mario's got combos and killing moves."

Mario outranges Samus's N-air with his B-air. Mario's whole body is longer than samus's leg. Mario has slightly more range. Mario's Stutter F-smash outranges Samus's F-smash. Mario's dash attack outranges Samus's. Mario's. Mario's Fludd beats most of Samus's projectiles and fireballs come out faster than Samus's projectiles so mario can string many SH-fireballs together. Samus's recovery is easy for mario to gimp with fireballs, aerials, fludd or capehogging.

I say 55:45 Mario or better definately not even.

 

[Nanaki]

"55:45 Mario or 50/50. Samus outranges Mario a lot, and Zair is just rubbing it in. Samus also has better projectiles and better recovery. Mario's got combos and killing moves."

Mario outranges Samus's Z-air with his B-air. Mario's whole body is longer than samus's leg. Mario has slightly more range. Mario's Stutter F-smash outranges Samus's F-smash. Mario's Dash attack outranges Samus's. Mario's. Mario's Fludd beats most of Samus's Projectiles and Fireballs come out faster than Samus's projectiles so mario can string many SH-Fireballs together. Samus's recovery is easy for mario to gimp with fireballs, Aerials, fludd or capehogging.

I say 55:45 Mario or better definately not even.

Sorry to interject Mario boards, I lurk around here and I had to jump in on this post.

I find it very hard to believe that Mario's Bair outranges Samus' Zair. I think you might be thinking of Nair, since you said "her leg". Zair is the grapple beam that stretches out craaaaazy far, certainly farther than Mario's body.

Mario definitely doesn't outrange Samus, it's just that it's way easy to get inside her range because of fireball spam stopping Samus spam. Cape also helps against power missiles and charge shot.

I'd also point out that Samus' recovery is definitely not easy to gimp. Yes, Mario is a good gimper, but Samus can stall pretty well offstage with bombs, and has multiple options coming back. Her fair defends her well if she recovers high, too. If you mess up your gimp, Dair is an easy spike to your doom. I'd probably advise NOT trying to gimp Samus unless you're pretty sure you've got a good position/opportunity for it.

Still though, I'd say it's in Mario's favor, just because once he gets inside her range he can tear her up pretty well, and has an easier time killing her than she does Mario. Mario's pretty hard to gimp if he utilizes his offstage options well, and avoids being there altogether.

 

[Inferno3044]

Sorry to interject Mario boards, I lurk around here and I had to jump in on this post.

I find it very hard to believe that Mario's Bair outranges Samus' Zair. I think you might be thinking of Nair, since you said "her leg". Zair is the grapple beam that stretches out craaaaazy far, certainly farther than Mario's body.

It doesn't

Mario definitely doesn't outrange Samus, it's just that it's way easy to get inside her range because of fireball spam stopping Samus spam. Cape also helps against power missiles and charge shot. [/QUOTE]

I don't like caping missiles so much because you can get punished with a zair or something.


Also this was already decided. It's 60:40 Mario arguable for 65:35 depending on stage. As Xyro said, its like 70:30 Mario on Japes.

Matchup over. Pikachu or Lucas next. Either them or Bowser because I don't see how Mario vs. Bowser is 50:50 (Personally think Mario's advantage and not a slight one). Any of those 3 I'm good with, but if someone really wants to talk about someone else, I'll be ok with that.

EDIT: Seriously how is Mario vs. Bowser 50:50?

 

[Inferno3044]

Ok so apparently Pikachu is next. Let's see what i can give.

For our advantages:
The little mouse is lightweight so we can kill him at lower percentages.
We definitely have an air game that can fight with Pika's
FLUDD is a good counter to his recovery and can destroy it, whether its QA or Skull Bash
Freballs are better because we can launch them from different angles while Pika's goes just on the floor
We can outcamp Pika and force them to approach if we want to
We can cape thunder

Disadvantages:
The mouse is faster than us
I think his attacks are faster
He can probably do some sort of CG on us
His ground game is better
Better kill power
Outranges us on the ground except for maybe our Fsmash (not sure who has better range in the air)

First opinion: 55:45 Mario

 

[:mad:]

This thread lives, good stuff.

As far as the ratio, I think it's 60:40 Pikachu, to be honest. Let's first see what they think.

 

[Matt07]

So I was trolling through boards and I saw that the Sonic boards are discussing us for their match-up thread right now.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510&page=370

I'd help but as you all know I suck at debating.

Oh by the way Sonic mains, "Your too slow!"

 

[SkylerOcon]

I dunno. I think this match-up is more neutral; 50-50 at best, 55-45 at worst (not that there's much of a difference). Both of us have good air games (thought ours is a bit better), and decent ground games (though his is a bit better). We both have a relatively spammable projectile (but we have cape and neutral air to deal with his). We can cape Thunder, and the FLUDD does very well against both Skull Bash and QC. However, Pikachu does outrange us on the ground (except for maybe out FSmash), and he's a bit faster.

If it's in anybody's favor, it's in Pikachu's, but not by very much.

 

[Inferno3044]

I dunno. I think this match-up is more neutral; 50-50 at best, 55-45 at worst (not that there's much of a difference). Both of us have good air games (thought ours is a bit better), and decent ground games (though his is a bit better). We both have a relatively spammable projectile (but we have cape and neutral air to deal with his). We can cape Thunder, and the FLUDD does very well against both Skull Bash and QC. However, Pikachu does outrange us on the ground (except for maybe out FSmash), and he's a bit faster.

If it's in anybody's favor, it's in Pikachu's, but not by very much.

Now that I see it, it sounds pretty even. We fight on par really in both on the ground and in the air. We have a couple of things to mess them up, and I'm assuming they have some stuff to get us with, mainly not being to gimpable.

I'm going with an even 50:50 or 55:45 Mario until I wanna hear from the Pikachu players.

 

[Matt07]

We have posted this at the Pikachu boards, right?

I've heard little from the Pikachu mains (unless I missed a few pages of the thread.)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pikachu is neutral...you both can camp each other...Mario does it slightly better. You are one of few chars that can even EDGECAMP vs Pikachu (thanks to Cape stall). You both suck a lot at KOs, so you both go pretty even when it's time to get that KO and stuff.

Pikachu has a lot of priority on stuff, but it's usually nothing that you can't at least trade hits with by using B-air.

So as I was saying, it's neutral.

Someone was asking about Bowser...seriously, it's probably one of Mario's best matchups by far with a character that is ranked above him. It's sorta close enough for Bowser to win, but in Mario's favor, simply cause you got camping, edgeguarding, and juggling that Bowser has a hard time dealing with. Well...just don't play him on BF, but any other stage you pretty much can dominate him. Bowser should rarely ever make it back to the stage on FD since his recovery is so predictable and easily cape *****.

 

[Veggi]

From what I remember, it's even because of Bowser's range and he can chaingrab us. I've never been chaingrabbed before though, there arn't a whole lot of Bowser players.

 

[Inferno3044]

Pikachu is neutral...you both can camp each other...Mario does it slightly better. You are one of few chars that can even EDGECAMP vs Pikachu (thanks to Cape stall). You both suck a lot at KOs, so you both go pretty even when it's time to get that KO and stuff.

I didn't know Pikachu was bad at KO's. I thought he was kind of mediocre.

Pikachu has a lot of priority on stuff, but it's usually nothing that you can't at least trade hits with by using B-air.

So as I was saying, it's neutral.

I'm saying 55:45 for the sake of getting some Pikachu's to get over here. I will say 60:40 if they don't come.

Someone was asking about Bowser...seriously, it's probably one of Mario's best matchups by far with a character that is ranked above him. It's sorta close enough for Bowser to win, but in Mario's favor, simply cause you got camping, edgeguarding, and juggling that Bowser has a hard time dealing with. Well...just don't play him on BF, but any other stage you pretty much can dominate him. Bowser should rarely ever make it back to the stage on FD since his recovery is so predictable and easily cape *****.

Thank you for seeing it the way I do. Unfortunately though, I think BF is one of Mario's best stages but mine personally is Yoshi's. But as you said we have it better in most aspects. All he really has to stop us is f-filt because its his only fast move with good range, grab combos (which can be possible to DI out of), big weight (which really works for us just as well) and strength. After this, we are discussing Bowser to get this over with.

But as of now 60:40 Mario vs Pika until they come.

 

[A2ZOMG]

From what I remember, it's even because of Bowser's range and he can chaingrab us. I've never been chaingrabbed before though, there arn't a whole lot of Bowser players.

He can't CG you from a jump release. He does get a free attack on either release, but it's not a true CG.

His range is annoying, but that's why you camp.

I didn't know Pikachu was bad at KO's. I thought he was kind of mediocre.

His F-smash is too slow, Up-smash and Thunder are super predictable, and N-air needs to be undiminished at high percents. His D-smash is terrible and easily sdied. He's probably one of the worst characters in the game at scoring that KO easily when he doesn't have that cg combo helping him. Well, not as bad as Sonic or Captain Falcon I guess, but pretty darn terrible.

Thank you for seeing it the way I do. Unfortunately though, I think BF is one of Mario's best stages but mine personally is Yoshi's. But as you said we have it better in most aspects. All he really has to stop us is f-filt because its his only fast move with good range, grab combos (which can be possible to DI out of), big weight (which really works for us just as well) and strength. After this, we are discussing Bowser to get this over with.

All you have to do to safely rack on damage to Bowser is camp him. =/

One dodged F-tilt = free D-throw or u-tilt chain. Or even a stutter step F-smash.

Bowser is also better on BF since his size helps him hit from underneath platforms. Platforms make his recovery and air game more unpredictable too. When you play him on FD, everything he does is telegraphed way in advance and the best part is Mario has a counter to virtually all his stuff. On FD, he should pretty much never make it back to the stage because his recovery is so predictable and easily cape *****, so sometimes, his overkill weight is working against him by actually putting him in the range where Mario can immediately edgeguard him from a combo.

 

[fromundaman]

Can't you UpB out of Bowser's ground release follow up? It always seems to work for me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Can't you UpB out of Bowser's ground release follow up? It always seems to work for me.

Technically you can't. What you're supposed to do is just mash jump/up so that you air break, and that works because his pummel is too slow to guarantee a ground break. Either this will mess him up when he tries to buffer a grab/jab, or you'll get hit by a F-air (DI that), or you'll luck out and because you messed him up you'll not get punished.

 

[Matt07]

By the looks of it Inferno, the match-up ratio is looking to be 60:40, they haven't brought anything to this discussion yet.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... is it hard to buffer the jab then? I ask because while the two Bowser players I've played with Mario weren't great, neither of them could get a follow up on a grounded break.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Jab is easy to buffer...the grab...is it a dashgrab cg? That might be tricky to buffer.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... guess the Bowsers I've been playing suck at buffering then.

 

[Matt07]

We did have a discussion with the Pikachu boards a while ago, here's the link to the discussion. If you guys really feel like re-reading some of the stuff.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225389

 

[Inferno3044]

Well it says the MU is dead even if not in favor of Mario. To me that translates to 50:50 or 50:50 arguable for 55:45 Mario.

I guess since the Pika mains won't come, Bowser is up now. Since we already started I will get them.

 

[Matt07]

We discussed Bowser not too long ago actually. We both agreed it was 50:50. However with Bowser's infinite grab(?) It could be different.