The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[Matador]

Yummy....Get the hell outta here

Quoted for emphasis

Your entire post was a grammatical failure. You also lacked any kind of logic starting at your first quote response. Nair doesn't even have any knockback until the last hit...how is that impossible to punish especially since we have our upB OOS?

 

[Inferno3044]

pit can approach pretty well actually nairs, shfairs, full hop dairs are impossible to punish on a sheild

most of those could be punished by UpB OOS.

solution:ban yoshis pit is decent on pokemon stadium actually

Fair enough. I guess its safer than going for the closer ledge but i never understood why doing that is so helpful.

d-smash is reliable for getting people off the stage it comes out on frame 5 and kills at around 130 or so

Sounds similar to Mario's d-smash. Starts one the same frame, but i think the animation is faster than Pit's. Yours might be a bit stronger.

pit does have problems killing sometimes what is he talking about idk hes not metaknight he cant gimp as well even if he is one of the best gimpers imo

We aren't going to try and gimp pit. We are one of the best gimpers in the game, but I wouldn't constantly try to gimp Pit.

they are about even in killing damage is about even maybe slightly in pits favor

Not true. Fsmash will outrange a lot of your moves and it kills very well. Our Usmash is a good, fast killer with disjoints. Dsmash should kill around 130 if its not stale. His aerials arent reliable killers

mario most likely does not have the better air game ground game may be close to even but pit has teh air game, nair and uair come out on frame 3 bair comes out on 7 fair has great reach but comes out on 12

Mario's nair and uair come out on frame 4. Takes 1 frame longer but if we do it more than 1 frame advance we will hit which is something nair could be used for. Dair comes out on frame 5 and bair comes out on frame 6. The Epic Spike (fair) comes out frame 22, but it shouldnt be taken into much account since it will rarely be used. Also our aerials have high priority, low lag, and auto cancel except for fair which wont be used on stage. Pits nair, dair, and uair dont auto cancel and all of his aerials have more lag. With all of this said and all of this fact (I literally just tested) I think It's safe to say that Mario's air game is better.

there you go now what is it good sir?

55:45 Mario still.

Yummy I have to say this. Chuck Norris kicks ***!!! He is so freaking awesome!!

 

[fromundaman]

Sounds similar to Mario's d-smash. Starts one the same frame, but i think the animation is faster than Pit's. Yours might be a bit stronger.

Not true. Fsmash will outrange a lot of your moves and it kills very well. Our Usmash is a good, fast killer with disjoints. Dsmash should kill around 130 if its not stale. His aerials arent reliable killers

Can't find our frame data atm, but doesn't our Dsmash come out frame 4?


Also, I'm pretty sure a stutter stepped Fsmash outranges absolutely everything Pit has (other than arrows and AR).

 

[Matt07]

^
Nope, Mario's dsmash comes out in frame 5.

xD, there I helpd a tiny pitch with the match-up haha.

 

[fromundaman]

Okay, thanks for the info.

I could have swore it was the same frame as MKs...

 

[Coffee™]

If we throw a fireball and you Wingdash to cancel them out, the situation resets. Neither one of us takes damage. The only side-result is that we're probably a little closer to you.

It depends on where Mario is when he is following up the fireball. If he's too close after Pit wingdashes backwards he may still put himself in range of being hit with something whether it be something like Dtilt, a Fsmash or a simply a grab.

If Mario DIs out of AR if caught inside and immediately capes, IIRC it should reach Pit's outstretched arm and turn him around for punishment. That, and it has punishable ending lag.

AR's lag isn't really that punishable if you shield it provided Pit uses it from a SH. To punish it you have to DI behind him almost immediately anyway unless the Pit player continues with the AR.

Explain. All I know is that he can hold them a bit longer to bait cape, turn around a few times to bring the same effect as DashDancing, or loop them. Other than that, they're pretty limited, especially since it can be caped on reaction in some situations.

There are those situations you mentioned but I meant mostly along the lines of where the arrows are being shot from. For example from SHs or platforms or wheter you just curve the arrow so that regardless of if you cape it back Pit is not in a situation he can be hit by it.

Unfortunately for you, Pit has to come back to the stage. Every character HAS to come back to the stage. It's not a matter of from what angle you come in or how high you do it; it's what weapons you have to defend yourself as you recover. Therein lies the problem with your Snake comparison. Snake has a ton of viable options after recovering high to protect himself from being instantly punished upon landing.

Snake only has Bair, Nade pivoting and Nair to really "protect" him when he's landing. Anything else he can possibly do won't take effect fast enough to prevent him from being punished. Nade Pivoting is realistically the most effective and Pit can achieve the same thing with MS pivoting.

Going under the stage is great too as long as your opponent doesn't catch on quick enough...otherwise you're under the stage waiting for a stagespike when you re-surface.

Pit's glide is about on par with MK's running speed, maybe slightly faster. Mario isn't fast enough to run from one side of the stage to another, jump off and stage spike and even if then, if it was obvious Mario will be able to beat your glide to one side then you can cancel it with a jump and WoI back to the previous edge anyway.

Despite my responses, I may now be leaning toward 55:45 Pit, to MAYBE 60:40, but pretty doubtful. What're Pit's CPs vs Mario? Ours is Yoshi's or probably a stage with a lower ceiling such as Halberd. Ban is probably Japes.

Pits have Japes, RC, Brinstar, Lylat and I guess Frigate Orpheon. Norfair is pretty good too although Pit loses his ability to gimp Mario much there. Halberd isn't that good vs Pit. The only advantage Mario gains there is being able to kill with Usmash earlier, while Pit gains numerous advantages because of the semi soft stage floor.

Mario's nair and uair come out on frame 4. Takes 1 frame longer but if we do it more than 1 frame advance we will hit which is something nair could be used for. Dair comes out on frame 5 and bair comes out on frame 6. The Epic Spike (fair) comes out frame 22, but it shouldnt be taken into much account since it will rarely be used. Also our aerials have high priority, low lag, and auto cancel except for fair which wont be used on stage. Pits nair, dair, and uair dont auto cancel and all of his aerials have more lag. With all of this said and all of this fact (I literally just tested) I think It's safe to say that Mario's air game is better.

Pit's Nair is frame 2 not 3 and as far as a comparison goes I think they're about even as far as air game goes since their aerials aren't even used for the same purposes. Pit does have a better ground game though.

R@vyn, you said Pit doesn't have trouble killing. That alone doesn't mean anything unless you give information.

Ok I'll throw out a few examples. Pit's Fsmash in terms of power is roughly as strong as the back end of MKs Dsmash. His Dsmash is roughly the same strength as Mario's Dsmash and his Bair is quite a bit stronger than either and generally kills around 20% lower than Fsmash.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Pit tactics

For Pit:

FIREBALLS mess with his gliding and recovery.

Dash Attack and Walking Cape stops most of his aerial approaches.
Pit aerial range means your going to want to use B-air-> N-air and Fastfall Blind(with Mario's back to the opponent(blindly attacking)) U-air -> U-smash or Full Jump D-air to rack up damage.

You are not going to want to use F-air to attack Pit
Pit Down special Shield presents a great opportunity to Grab.
Use Stutter-F-smash on the ground to outrange Pit on the ground.
Save Mario's D-smash to lead into edguarding Pit at high percents.

Pit's going to try to use his arrows to mess with your recovery just use fireballs to cancel them. Fireballs can also be used to turn around so B-air can cancel them if you push the opposite direction when using fireballs. This should ONLY be done if you DI upwardes high enough.

Your going to need a good Defensive game(Walking Cape on the ground, Fludd to stall horizontal movement, Retreating Fireballs, Wall of Pain B-air, Dash attack ,Cape and F-tilt outprioritizing on the ground) and Walking grab game (for his defensive game) for pit because his aerials will give him a good approach options and you must defend against his ground game.

I'd say the match is 60%/40% in Mario's favor fireballs are really bad for Pit's recovery

 

[fromundaman]

Master of Mario, you do know that they can glide up high when they see a fireball coming, right?

Also, seriously, who the hell would you approach with Fair?

Also, be careful with that grounded cape. Spamming that will get you punished.

 

[Matador]

It depends on where Mario is when he is following up the fireball. If he's too close after Pit wingdashes backwards he may still put himself in range of being hit with something whether it be something like Dtilt, a Fsmash or a simply a grab.

This also depends on whether or not Mario has time to defend himself. If he's somehow consistently unable to put up a shield after wingdash cancels a fireball, then this is a viable threat.

Otherwise, not really.

AR's lag isn't really that punishable if you shield it provided Pit uses it from a SH. To punish it you have to DI behind him almost immediately anyway unless the Pit player continues with the AR.

Cons * Angel Ring (AR) has significant cooldown lag

Forward B - (Angel Ring)
Total: 64
First hits on frame 12
Ends quickest on frame 41

Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, your own Pit guide contradicts you. From my understanding, it also doesn't even have any real knockback, just wind effect once it's finished. I think that's rather punishable, in addition to what you've mentioned.

There are those situations you mentioned but I meant mostly along the lines of where the arrows are being shot from. For example from SHs or platforms or wheter you just curve the arrow so that regardless of if you cape it back Pit is not in a situation he can be hit by it.

This, I agree with. It's actually something I particularly like about Pit's arrows. It still keeps Mario moderately safe from them, even if it's not going to endanger Pit in the process.

Snake only has Bair, Nade pivoting and Nair to really "protect" him when he's landing. Anything else he can possibly do won't take effect fast enough to prevent him from being punished. Nade Pivoting is realistically the most effective and Pit can achieve the same thing with MS pivoting.

You're joking. He has some of the best tools for this instance. TWO projectiles that can potentially combo directly into his Uair under most circumstances, grenades in general to deter attacking him head on while holding one, Bair/Nair, nade pivoting, and a decently fast fallspeed. If he's recovering high vs Marth, he has much better tools than most to safely reach the ground which is why this particular recover method is a little safer for him rather than Pit.

Granted, this recovery method generally isn't safe at all unless you're MK/G&W, but Snake simply has tools here that make it more viable, especially since he can easily just Cypher again if knocked back off. Pit has a certain number of jumps and his WoI. If he's FORCED to use his WoI vs Mario, he's in trouble.

Pit's glide is about on par with MK's running speed, maybe slightly faster. Mario isn't fast enough to run from one side of the stage to another, jump off and stage spike and even if then, if it was obvious Mario will be able to beat your glide to one side then you can cancel it with a jump and WoI back to the previous edge anyway.

0:56.

Fear started running LATE there. What if he'd decided to throw a fireball or fast-grab the ledge instead and proceed to edgeguard afterward? I'm quite certain that either one of those actions would've made things a little harder for Sage and could've possibly lead to a gimp. Now he's out of a glide, two jumps, and he's above Fear close enough to the ledge where a Bair, reverse Uair, cape or even Fludd would've sent him back off.

If you decide to turn around, I'm not sure, but I think Mario could keep up as long as he reacted in time. Basically what I'm saying is that Mario IS fast enough. If you risk turning around, it's a gamble on whether Mario reacts in time to catch you and if he does, he only needs to hit you out of WoI to end the stock early.

Pits have Japes, RC, Brinstar, Lylat and I guess Frigate Orpheon. Norfair is pretty good too although Pit loses his ability to gimp Mario much there. Halberd isn't that good vs Pit. The only advantage Mario gains there is being able to kill with Usmash earlier, while Pit gains numerous advantages because of the semi soft stage floor.

I honestly don't even know Mario's good stages, just ones that I feel comfortable on vs certain characters. I DO know that Pit hates Yoshis, Mario loves PS1 and RC, and we hate Japes. So yeah, we ban japes, you ban Yoshis, I CP PS1, you CP one of the other stages you suggested, all of which aren't very bad for Mario, though you may gain a few slight advantages.

Pit's Nair is frame 2 not 3 and as far as a comparison goes I think they're about even as far as air game goes since their aerials aren't even used for the same purposes. Pit does have a better ground game though.

Forgive me if I don't just take your word for it. I'd rather be convinced that our ground game is inferior. Your grab game is the only thing that I find even worth mentioning next to Mario's ground game. Ours isn't even all that spectacular either.

Ok I'll throw out a few examples. Pit's Fsmash in terms of power is roughly as strong as the back end of MKs Dsmash. His Dsmash is roughly the same strength as Mario's Dsmash and his Bair is quite a bit stronger than either and generally kills around 20% lower than Fsmash.

Our Dsmash sucks in KO power, so Pit's also fails by default.

Our Fsmash has excellent range when stutterstepped, disjointed, and should kill Pit around 100% with DI; possibly lower depending on where it hits. As I've said before, if we shield your Fsmash, we get a freebie. Other than that, it DOES require setups, but it is killing as low and as reliably as your Bair.

Our Usmash is ridiculously easy to land but kills a great deal higher. 130% fresh is the lowest it'll KO, but is good OOS, has great priority, and is a vertical killer, so it's harder to DI.

Most of Mario's other kills come from gimping, but Pit does make this a little less effective with his above-average recovery. Still, I believe Mario's a better killer, especially since I find that many Pits use Fsmash for more than killing.

 

[Inferno3044]

It depends on where Mario is when he is following up the fireball. If he's too close after Pit wingdashes backwards he may still put himself in range of being hit with something whether it be something like Dtilt, a Fsmash or a simply a grab.

Maybe every now and then we will be put in a bad place, but if we play safe it shouldnt be too big a problem. Don't rely on it.

AR's lag isn't really that punishable if you shield it provided Pit uses it from a SH. To punish it you have to DI behind him almost immediately anyway unless the Pit player continues with the AR.

In your situation I would that it's good for Pit, but its not what a Mario should do. What should be done is dodge it by either roll dodging behind him or move out of the way and punish accordingly. The ending lag on it can give us something.

There are those situations you mentioned but I meant mostly along the lines of where the arrows are being shot from. For example from SHs or platforms or wheter you just curve the arrow so that regardless of if you cape it back Pit is not in a situation he can be hit by it.

Understandable and i thought most Pit's would implicate that. The point is that you are idle while using it and you can no real gain if we are going towards you and you aren't hitting us. We can probably jump over them depending on the angle. As far as I know, an arrow can't make a sharp turn.

Snake only has Bair, Nade pivoting and Nair to really "protect" him when he's landing. Anything else he can possibly do won't take effect fast enough to prevent him from being punished. Nade Pivoting is realistically the most effective and Pit can achieve the same thing with MS pivoting.

What's the significance of this comparison?

Pit's glide is about on par with MK's running speed, maybe slightly faster. Mario isn't fast enough to run from one side of the stage to another, jump off and stage spike and even if then, if it was obvious Mario will be able to beat your glide to one side then you can cancel it with a jump and WoI back to the previous edge anyway.

Once again little significance. You won't be gimped easily. We know that already. That fact is not a game changer. If you go under the stage chances are you will be safe, which we know. Matador, its not worth arguing about. They will win that argument. Only advantage is that most characters will use a few moves when on a ledge, making you predictable and possible to be punished. I don't know what moves will be used, but I'm pretty sure its about 2 moves maybe 3.

Pits have Japes, RC, Brinstar, Lylat and I guess Frigate Orpheon. Norfair is pretty good too although Pit loses his ability to gimp Mario much there. Halberd isn't that good vs Pit. The only advantage Mario gains there is being able to kill with Usmash earlier, while Pit gains numerous advantages because of the semi soft stage floor.

We aren't bad on some of those stages. We do pretty well on RC and Lylat imo and i personally like brinstar. I hate Japes a lot though and its banned where I am (thank god)

Pit's Nair is frame 2 not 3 and as far as a comparison goes I think they're about even as far as air game goes since their aerials aren't even used for the same purposes. Pit does have a better ground game though.

Personally, I like Mario's aerials more and think they are better and more useful. I also don't think Pit's ground game is better. We have nice smashes and good quick tilts.

Ok I'll throw out a few examples. Pit's Fsmash in terms of power is roughly as strong as the back end of MKs Dsmash. His Dsmash is roughly the same strength as Mario's Dsmash and his Bair is quite a bit stronger than either and generally kills around 20% lower than Fsmash.

I normally don't die off the side by MK's Dsmash. If i die from it, its because i was just dumb and DI poorly. He gimps me with the help of a dair which Pit doesnt have. Mario's dsmash is pretty good, but not a reliable killer since its used on stage as a gtfo move so it might not be fresh. Bair has to be sweetspotted and as a moving target, we can have come control. I still say Mario can kill better.

 

[fromundaman]

Guys, matchup discussions go off the assumption that both sides are top level players, right?

In this case, why does AR keep coming up. It's honestly not very hard to SDI and punish, assuming it hits at all. Hell, you can mess up SDIing the first 2-3 hits, and still SDI behind Pit fast enough to punish it. It isn't really a good option.

 

[Inferno3044]

fromund has a good point. Matchups are supposed to be made up of good characters at top levels. Something like AR isn't that good of an option in general because it is easily punished. That doesn't really help him at all. We have definitely put too much emphasis on AR, WoI, and arrows. We all understand them and can see either how help it is (or isn't) and what to do against them.

If you can't fight close up well then thats a problem because most Mario's try to get in your zone and do it.

I personally think we are done. 55:45 Mario

 

[Judge Judy]

We have definitely put too much emphasis on AR, WoI, and arrows.

Arrows are important, AR and WoI, not so much.

 

[Matador]

Judge...where've you been?

 

[The Master of Mario]

This may seem kinda random but

For Lucario:

Cape is great for stopping aerial approaches since he's floaty and has a slow B-air. Cape will be able to lead into grabs at high percents where you can take on 3% before B-throw adding on more damage. Blind-U-airs are also good for leading into D-smash. Lucario will probably try to outrange Mario, but Mario has Short hop D-airs and N-airs they will hit above Lucario's range.

Jabs and F-tilts cancel out Lucario spamming projectiles.

I don't see anything in this matchup that's a disadvantage for Mario. In terms of Edgegaurding Mario doesn't can Use Blind U-airs and Fireballs instead of cape Lucario doesn't have a defense for attacking him from above. Once Lucario's in the Air you can outrange him with Up angled F-smash. Platforms will cause the most problems with his D-air chose a stage like Yoshi's Island or Final Destination.

For Pit:

Dash Attack goes through Pit's Side Special and it can hit him while he is close to the ground. Mario's F-smash also beats out side special. As for Pit's down special Mario can Grab and approach with Moves like D-air and Blind U-air hitting behind the shield. Mario can approach Pit with N-airs->Grabs or punches. If Pit starts using his jumps Mario can use U-airs and D-airs to attack him. A stage like Battlefield or Yoshi's Island is good fro Pit. Mario has one of the most damaging grab attacks in the game. His grab game beats out Pit's. B-throws, Dthrows and F-throws will set pit up for combos.

Also I don't know why you would want to try to shield grab Pit's F-smash and not his D-smash since D-smash has more lag frames.

In the Fear Video, he might have hit if he attacked with U-air instead of B-air since U-air comes out two frames earlier. He also had the option of N-air if he backed away from the stage because it comes out 3 frames earlier.

 

[Inferno3044]

Arrows are important, AR and WoI, not so much.

I know they are important. What I meant was at least half of what we are talking about have been about arrows. Let me take this from the pit board.

When people first start playing Pit most of the time they stay on one side of the stage and spam their Arrows. This obviously isn't the best thing to do against players with practice as everyone knows you can do several things to avoid a projectile such as roll, powershield, reflect, shield, sidestep, air dodge and the list goes on.

Relying completely only on Pit's Arrows will make you very predictable and easy to beat, however, you still want to use your arrows from time to time to pressure on your opponent while making it hard for them to close the gap. One thing that you should find useful is to hit your opponent with an Arrow after they have a significant distance, or to aid you in gimping a recovery.

Hopefully that ends everything about the reliability of the arrow. I'm not saying they aren't reliable, but I think they are overrated and shouldnt effect the matchup much because most of Pit's metagame doesnt revolve around the arrow. If I'm wrong and it revolves a lot around the arrow, then I think this MU is 60:40 Mario because if you can dodge most of the arrows in one of the any ways stated above and get inside their zone, we get a big upper hand.

If your metagame doesnt revolve around it, then 55:45 Mario for the same reasons but at least you can defend yourself. I do not see this as a Pit advantage

I don't know what more needs to be discussed about this. Let's do Pikachu, TL, D3, or Samus.

 

[Inferno3044]

Can we do TL next? I just realized he is a little floaty mother****er that doesnt get gimped easily and I need a little help on how to fight him.

Btw final words about Pit, play aggressively but with caution. You gotta fight him, but dodge arrows before you get to him.

 

[:mad:]

Toon Link isn't really hard to gimp. At least, not for me. Just edgehog to stop Zair and force his recovery.

Sounds good. We just need ratios. I was thinking 55:45 Pit's favor.

 

[Inferno3044]

Toon Link isn't really hard to gimp. At least, not for me. Just edgehog to stop Zair and force his recovery.

Sounds good. We just need ratios. I was thinking 55:45 Pit's favor.

He isn't hard, just not easy or able to be abused like ike or ness (destroyed an ike + ness team in low tier doubles gimping each once with the cape and ike with fludd in one match.) I say its 55:45 Mario until I get more Pit experience, but I think 50:50 not arguable for either direction is reasonable. I don't know why but I don't see it as Pit's advantage. He can definitely fight us, but other than arrows and a couple quick attacks he doesnt have much over us. The point is that it is very winnable for both sides so I guess 50:50 is probably the most reasonable and agreeable. So yeah. 50:50

 

[mariofanpm12]

fireballs screw pit over and make the matchup pretty basic

55:45 or maybe 50:50

 

[Gates]

In the Dedede matchup thread, our discussion this week is Mario, both with and without the infinite. Please feel free to contribute to the thread. Here is the link:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192600
Posting there would be preferable but posting here is ok too.

Now, I realize that a lot of you hate Dedede with a passion and to be honest I can't blame you. All I'm asking is that you guys aren't too angry while posting there.

Thanks!

 

[Inferno3044]

We should use their matchup discussion on D3 vs. Mario and put the data on our boards since we havent done D3. Anyways TL is next?

 

[:mad:]

Might as well. But after that, we're doing Samus. As soon as possible.

 

[Inferno3044]

We can do Samus now. I know a little more since my friend helped me in the MU a bit and showed me what Samus can do.

 

[Matt07]

Lmao Samus...

I got 3 stocked by Xyro in 59 seconds on Battlefield. Every other match was a 2-3 stock. His Green Lesbian is like WTF good.

 

[FrankPizzi]

Lmao Samus...

I got 3 stocked by Xyro in 59 seconds on Battlefield. Every other match was a 2-3 stock. His Green Lesbian is like WTF good.

Yeah, I've fought him as well, he 3 stocked me first round, second round almost beat him... but missed my cape glide spike, and got punished for it =/. He had 90% 1 stock left.

 

[FrankPizzi]

Might as well. But after that, we're doing Samus. As soon as possible.

Thank you.

 

[:mad:]

I've yet to play Xyro, only a friend of mine 'Cherry64'. He's just a really smart player offstage, although I gimp him way more than I should, so that sways my opinion because I'll underestimate her.

Samus discussion starts now, guys. :D

 

[bobson]

You can't gimp a good Samus. You get spiked instead.

 

[:mad:]

Fireball as soon as he tethers, and I just edgehog. It's really one of the more difficult gimps, but still pretty satisying.

I get spiked way too much trying, though.

 

[FrankPizzi]

Fireball as soon as he tethers, and I just edgehog. It's really one of the more difficult gimps, but still pretty satisying.

I get spiked way too much trying, though.

Well, I don't think a fireball will end her recovery... she still has down B balls.. which is an ever lasting recovery + the up b(which is really high).. what I usually do when she's out... is fire ball a lot.. and spaced back air when she try getting back on the stage... that's all I really know.. I get owned by Samus.

 

[FrankPizzi]

You can't gimp a good Samus. You get spiked instead.

Trust me I know =/ I try do all these facy things outta the map and get punished instead.

 

[Matador]

In the Dedede matchup thread, our discussion this week is Mario, both with and without the infinite. Please feel free to contribute to the thread. Here is the link:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192600
Posting there would be preferable but posting here is ok too.

Now, I realize that a lot of you hate Dedede with a passion and to be honest I can't blame you. All I'm asking is that you guys aren't too angry while posting there.

Thanks!

Glad this ******** matchup is out of the way. I still think we should discuss it amongst ourselves for ideas on what to CP/ban and whatnot.

 

[:mad:]

Great idea, Matador. We'll just take some text from there and be done with it.

As far as bans go, FD gives him the most room too grab, so that's the obvious. No creative ideas from me.

For counterpicks, I'd probably take him to Yoshi's for neutrals or Brinstar. Only downside to that is his Uptilt and Bair, but you can still Usmash for kills.

 

[Matador]

I personally love Brinstar, I'm not sure why it's considered a bad stage for Mario. I'm not sure, but last time I played Atomsk on ladder, I think I caped his downB (he was Wario at the time) and killed him vertically a la cape ****. It was pretty amazing, almost won me the set. It's so easy to follow offstage there, and lava + cape = stage supplied knockback for cape ****.

I agree with FD being banned. BF gives us room to work too.

 

[:mad:]

At first I was thinking "What about RC?". Then I realized I was dumb.

Then I thought "What about Delfino?". Then I realized that was dumb.

Brinstar's the only place I can see this working, so long as the infinite's banned.

 

[Matador]

I really can't stand D3. I need to learn how to fight him, it drives me insane to lose to CGs and whatnot.

I'm like...incapable of camping too. SF4 showed me that when I tried to pick up Akuma T_T

 

[:mad:]

Just be glad Bridge of Eldin, or Green Hill Zone aren't usual counterpicks. I'd quit Brawl if I had to deal with that every tournament.

The only matchup I've ever truly had trouble with is versus Peach.
I'd really rather play a Dedede. But even then, I'd probably be using Ness that match.

 

[Matador]

upB OOS is amazing in that match. That's probably where I use it most.

Fludd onstage works rather well too. Just don't let her Usmash you.

 

[:mad:]

I think it's just wi-fi screwing with me. Because my DI sucks online, and they can just rack up 70% in 15 seconds.

I switch to Ganondorf and DK the next few games and win on every stage, and I don't know ANYTHING about both of them. I just can't fight her with Mario.