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The Competitive Introvert

HDL

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After thinking about it for a while I felt compelled to type this up. There are people who encounter struggles in life that they don’t fully understand, or perhaps people who know friends/family they just don’t get. I’d like to focus on how this affects the competitive scenes and personal improvement in fighting games.

I want to talk about introverted people. I am one myself, and I’m sure a chunk of the people reading this are as well. But what is introversion? It’s one of the most uncommonly known things about human behavior and development, and yet it is so critical to our society and everything we do. Allow me to point you toward some sites that accurately describe what this is:

http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Introversion.htm
http://www.learningplaceonline.com/relationships/friends/caring-introvert.htm
http://www.hiddengiftsoftheintrovertedchild.com/being.html

You may also read the forums of that last site to see the thoughts and opinions of introverted people in order to better understand them.

How we feel at tournaments

There’s a high chance that many of you, especially the extroverts, did not really know or understand this before. Many different sources claim that introverted people make up about 25% of the population, more or less. Judging by my own personal experiences and interactions with other people, I’d be inclined to agree.

This is important because we’re talking about the processes of the brain, the way we think, the way we gain energy or are drained of it. The world is predominantly extrovert-friendly, and tournaments are no exception. They are social gatherings, sometimes containing hundreds of people in the case of major events, all in the same place. We do not personally know everyone. Everything about this environment seems to nourish extroverts and sap introverts of our energy. It seems to directly clash with our interest of playing a multiplayer game, in which the whole point is interaction with other people.

So what does this mean for us who play fighting games competitively? Is it possible that we are naturally disadvantaged, because tournament energy whittles away at our life force?

Player types

It’s important to identify what type of player you are. There are many people who do not have the patience to sit down, play the game alone for hours at a time, and learn things through sheer focus. The majority of people will prefer to go to gatherings and tournaments and just play people all day, hoping they will learn in the process. Lengthy sessions of training and study eventually bore them, and soon they will crave more matches. These are extroverts.

On the other hand, if you like spending time alone pondering about how to make a particular setup work, how to get in the other person’s mind in the most effective way, and how to improve your own focus, consistency, and other things, chances are you are introverted and you must realize this if you hope to become an excellent player. It is crucial that you understand what your strengths are based on your natural personality, and how to go about using that knowledge to gain the upper hand.

Extroverts will tend to be more reckless. They will do things more on impulse rather than deep analysis. But this can sometimes be a strength, because sometimes you have to jump in there and get your feet wet in order to capitalize. It is a fighting game after all, the point is to ATTACK!

Introverts are often more conservative, playing safer and not acting until they know for sure what they want to do and how likely it is to work. This is necessary because you can’t just recklessly give anything to the opponent, you have to pick your moments wisely. At the same time, though, failure to act will result in lost opportunities, as well as more time for your opponent to open you up.

The best players will find a way to strike the correct balance between these. You don’t give away opportunities and you carefully think about what you should do, but at the same time you are daring enough to get in there and take the necessary risks to create opportunities and win. The hard part is learning how to do this when you naturally lean more towards one and not the other.

Our way of improving

I personally can use every character proficiently, but those of you who know me will only associate me with Link. Needless to say, I have my work cut out for me at major events (which I unfortunately cannot attend easily). Those of you who played me at Pound 4, especially the top players, understand (I hope!) that it has taken a ridiculous amount of preparation in order to achieve the level of performance I have with this character. But how is it possible I play the way I do if I can't travel often?

What I want to emphasize is that most of what I know came from solitary training! Where I live there were not too many tournaments or gatherings, even when the scene was at its best. I wasn’t satisfied with only snail-paced improvement, though, so I forced myself to go beyond the usual match/tournament experience.

As an introvert, this is easier for me because I am very pensive, reflective, and studious. I thrive off using my alone time to better myself, and more importantly it is the more effective way of learning the game and improving at it.

Introverts, all throughout your lives you’ve heard people tell you “Danny, you have to learn how to be more assertive” and “Carol, it’s not good to be quiet. Get out there and socialize with everyone!” If you’ve read the articles I linked to, you should understand that there is nothing wrong with this behavior, and what you really need to learn is not how to change your personality into something it's not, but how to use the qualities and strengths only YOU have that outgoing people do not. This applies to everything, including fighting games.

Getting down to business

The best way to improve is to simply study the game, test and experiment a lot of different things. Become a scientist and dissect everything to gain knowledge. But remember that “field” experience is also necessary! You will have to go out and gain experience in gatherings and tournaments if you hope to solidify any kind of knowledge/skills you’ve gained through study. Introverts, we EXCEL at this sort of thing, so ride that train all the way downtown.

The impact this has on scenes

Tournaments, like the world itself, cannot last with only one type of person. Variety is a necessary component for everything. We would not be playing this game if every character had the same style and only a few moves to work with. We cannot have a lasting scene without a mix of different personality types.

Extroverts, it's important that you stop telling introverts to talk more, get out more, and do all the things that YOU feel comfortable with. It's important to make them feel welcome and comfortable in a large competitive scene, and double that for new players who are getting into this sort of thing for the first time. Failure to do so will eventually drive these players away and the scenes will stagnate and die.

Some of the most famous and contributive people in the world were introverts. Lots of philosophers, scientists, inventors, artists, etc. People like Albert Einstein and Michael Jackson. Improve yourself as a player and a person, and eventually your silence will become respected because anytime you open your mouth, you will have something golden to say!
 

LLDL

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Yeah I like this post. I'd say I'm half introverted, half extroverted, but slightly learning towards introverted. I personally don't have the patience for long training sessions, and just prefer to go to the tourney, have fun, and just level up there. Then again, I'm humble and just play; not loud, don't go anywhere with the smashers or converse a lot.
 

Vain

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Thank you for the read, as an extrovert, it's good to know and respect those around me at tournaments and gatherings, great read.
 

DtJ S2n

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Very interesting post. The 75:25 ratio of extroverts to introverts is for the general population, I was wondering what you think the ratio would be at tournaments? We're not exactly a normal bunch of people, haha.

And yes, being introverted has plenty of advantages as a competitive player! I've always found myself to grow the most as a player after long periods of not playing. I don't even have a wii to practice on. Instead I spend a lot of time watching videos of players I respect, thinking about how what they do works, and seeing where I can put it into my own game.
 

Lawrencelot

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Very nice thread. I too notice that I sometimes improve a lot (level up) when I don't play but just watch some vids, though I need to practice to keep my game fluent and fast-paced enough. At a tournament, people should know that it's not as easy for everyone to just walk up to an occupied tv and ask if you can play there, especially for newcomers, so if we want the scene to grow we all have to do our part and be friendly to newcomers and shy or introverted people.
 

t3h Icy

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Being both introverted and cocky is fun. =D

Really good read. <3
 

Fly_Amanita

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As an extremely introverted person who mostly improved by thinking about the game and meticulously monitoring my faults, I approve of this message.

I think the smash scene is a pretty healthy place for introverts as it is. I rarely feel pressure to actually interact with anybody to a significant degree and I can always just step outside the venue if I feel uncomfortable for whatever reason. Plus, you can be on friendly terms with somebody without either of you actually knowing much about each other, which makes the social interaction much easier for me than it is in most other communities.
 

HDL

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Very interesting post. The 75:25 ratio of extroverts to introverts is for the general population, I was wondering what you think the ratio would be at tournaments? We're not exactly a normal bunch of people, haha.
I'm going to presume that you were kind of joking there in saying that we're not normal. ;) If anyone seriously believes that, don't. Competing in a video game might be abnormal, since it isn't what most people usually do, but it doesn't make you as a person abnormal!

I had also thought of how many of us are present within fighting game communities, and honestly it is difficult to say with certainty. I'm sure it varies depending on the specific scene (where it's located, how many are part of it, etc.). In my experience, extroverts tend to make up the majority in these scenes just as they do with pretty much everything else.

And there's nothing wrong with that. There are only problems when people try to tell you to change how you behave in order to conform with what they consider to be "normal" human behavior. Or perhaps they don't tell you directly, but they might treat you in an unfair or even condescending way. This often comes from well-intentioned people who don't know any better. It's usually not a problem at gatherings/tournaments, though.
 

Skler

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That was a pretty awesome post. I just pretend I'm an extrovert and end up getting drunk in the process! Maybe you should have mentioned people like me :awesome:

Seriously, good post. I have no time to play at all though, school sucks.
 

Zodiac

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That was a good post, I feel I should share a little of my own introvert story.

Well as you can already tell I am an introvert. I've always been this way since I was a kid and a lot of people including my parents told me I should be socializing more. You know, get our there with the other kids, Everyone including my friends were trying to push it on me. And for a long time I just kind of gave them the finger and remained my introverted self. But when I was 19 I finally gave into the pressure and started changing my personality, reforming it to fit into what other people (Mostly my extroverted friends) thought I should be. Now a' days you might think I was extroverted at first sight. Now heres the really interesting part, back before I caved into the pressure I was really good at smash and most games in general, I would sit in my room for hours and hours on end learning how to play the game, memorizing combo's and the like. but when I "became" extroverted I was literally changing the way my mind worked into a way that wasn't natural for me and very hard do. I actually got worse at a lot of stuff I do, I got worse at writing, video games I even started doing worse in school! And I am undoubtedly a lot worse at smash now than I would have been if I had not caved into the pressure.

More recently I've stopped giving into any sort of pressure and have been slowly reverting back to being an introvert. Which isn't so bloody tiring for me.

Morale of the story, Dont let anyone tell you to be an extrovert or that something wrong with you for being introverted.
 

HDL

I like pork chops.
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Morale of the story, Dont let anyone tell you to be an extrovert or that something wrong with you for being introverted.
We've all experienced that at some point. Older adults telling us we have to socialize more, be more assertive, stop "hiding" in our rooms, etc. After all, these people outnumber us and they have set standards and expectations that go according to the personalities of the majority.

But as you've learned the hard way, trying to conform to their way of being will make you worse at, not just Smash, but everything. Being social is fine, but we tend to pick our moments and not engage in small talk much. With the right topic, though, sometimes you can't get us to shut up! ;)

Part of why I made this thread is because I wanted to share those links with people (both introverts and extroverts), so y'all can better understand why you or people you know are the way they are. There are many common misconceptions surrounding it.
 

~ Gheb ~

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I've learned a lot about myself reading this. I feel a lot more secure about being introverted now [even though most people couldn't tell].

:059:
 

HDL

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It's good to watch videos sometimes. What y'all need to keep in mind, though, is that videos work both ways. You can learn good things from them, but at the same time you can learn wrong things, even when watching videos of top players. Everyone makes mistakes, whether through executional error or by bad decisions. Top players can and DO make bad decisions at times, it's impossible for humans to perform excellently at every given moment. Sometimes these mistakes can look purposeful and might work out due to luck, or because the player happened to make a quick recovery and the opponent either didn't notice it, or couldn't capitalize due to the situation. Usually only top players can notice these mistakes, and even then it can be hard or impossible to discern them from intentional decisions.

Years ago I could watch videos of players like Ken and Isai and tell you things they did wrong, and people wouldn't believe me even though I could explain the details reasonably and logically. Fast forward a few years and all of a sudden people now know those things were wrong. Forget that I already mentioned it years ago and no one was having it, lol.

Innovation is very important, top players have not attained 100% mastery, so y'all need to stop watching videos believing that. Watch and take in the things done often that work, but don't assume that there isn't any level of skill, performance, or knowledge beyond what is currently showcased. In 2009 and even late 2010 I was still learning a few small (but critical) things with Link simply because I continued to experiment and innovate.

Point is, know how to watch videos correctly. I've learned so much about Marvel VS Capcom 2 by watching what top players do and understanding why those things work, then applying it to my game. But if you don't try to innovate, you won't learn things like the new Tron Bonne infinites recently posted.
 

Rob_Gambino

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Definitely a good read with a topic not really discussed that much, but I don't really agree with all of your points.

There are loads of smashers that would definitely be labeled extroverted, but I believe many of them use your "introverted" practice. Being from the midwest, watching players like dope, tink, drephen, interact with smashers at tournaments can make you wonder, "How are these hooligans remotely good at this game?" However, if you ask for advice or hear them talk about smash, you can tell they've got a lot of knowledge and have put a lot of thought into the game.

I would consider myself a relatively introverted person. Due to the lack of a smash scene in my immediate area, my smash improvement mainly comes with your introverted practice. If given the opportunity, I'm sure I would probably play this game by your extroverted definition. I used to think, "I'd be a better player if I lived closer to an active scene," but after thinking and reading this I feel, "I really probably would not be better."

The only way I could see being introverted puts you at a disadvantage in a tournament is if you have a big crowd of people watching your match or hear lots of cheering in a match near yours.

You may feel awkward eating with everyone at ihop or waiting on your matches or something, but I don't see how that would affect your tourney performance, maybe your experience. There's almost always friendlies stations at tournaments, which are great for introverted people. When everyone's gathered around for grand finals, you can almost always find someone who would rather play than watch if that makes you uncomfortable. During grand finals, you could also watch the matches and study their approaches, try to think what they're thinking, strategies, etc despite there being a crowd. Overall though, I'd say the tournament atmosphere is pretty welcoming of introverts.
 

HDL

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Sounds to me like you misunderstood my post for something more cut-and-dry.

Everyone has introverted and extroverted qualities, and the amounts vary. Even though these are only two "labels" (unless you count ambivert) you'd find that many people of similar personality types can still be very different from each other. Studying the game and gaining match experience with others are both very important, I'm not saying that you should choose one based on your personality type and disregard the other. My point was that people may tend to gravitate more towards one than the other because of how they are, but there's no way I can generalize that "all introverts do this, no exceptions." It's no secret that everyone actively involved with a scene will attend gatherings and tournaments, because that is the entire point of a competitive scene for a multiplayer game. Whereas studying the game in solitude is not the point, but something critical regardless as well as an area that introverts are naturally more suited for. This is assuming that the person cares about becoming an excellent player, otherwise there's nothing wrong with just playing with others and not doing much else.

Any type of person can do anything I mentioned. But you can say that about any topic. An introvert who isn't too good at small talk can engage in pointless chatter at a party, but it's going to be more difficult and less enjoyable for him. Just like how an extrovert can spend months without much social interaction, but it'll be harder and more boring.
 

stelzig

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The only way I could see being introverted puts you at a disadvantage in a tournament is if you have a big crowd of people watching your match or hear lots of cheering in a match near yours.
I don't think being an introvert means you have more trouble performing with a big crowd watching you play or hearing them cheer. In fact I think alot of introverts would be better at shutting those things out or not care as much about it. There isn't much social engagement involved in playing a game while someone watches you.
 

Zodiac

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I don't think being an introvert means you have more trouble performing with a big crowd watching you play or hearing them cheer. In fact I think alot of introverts would be better at shutting those things out or not care as much about it. There isn't much social engagement involved in playing a game while someone watches you.
This is true, when I get involved in a match I really forget about the fact that there are people watching me and zone into the game. It is however akward to wait for matches for me, But when grand finals roll around I huddle around the tv (Usually in the back) and cheer just as loud (Maybe louder) as everyone else. Its not that introverts hate social situations, we just dont like being forced into them, I myself pick and choose the times I want to be social.
 

t3h Icy

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I don't think being an introvert means you have more trouble performing with a big crowd watching you play or hearing them cheer. In fact I think alot of introverts would be better at shutting those things out or not care as much about it. There isn't much social engagement involved in playing a game while someone watches you.
This. I love the crowd hyping and trash talking ****. Getting booed for CGing makes me stronger!
 

Life

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It's kinda strange for me, actually. I act introverted around people I don't know but I'm a tad more social around people I do know. And I'm super-extroverted online.

I think it comes down to how carefully I need to think about what I'm saying. Online, nobody sees anything I type until I click "Post", so I can think about what I'm putting down before I show it to people--and even if I screw up, there's an edit button. Whereas IRL, once you say something, it's said, you can't take it back. So that means I'm really quiet around people I don't know because not only do I have to watch what I say and how I say it, even then I still won't have an idea about how those people will react. Around my friends, I can predict them more easily since I know them, but I still have to make sure I don't slip and say something stupid.

Also, marching band helps. A lot. If you have remotely any musical talent, do marching band for a year.
 

Problem2

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Introverted people have something they can learn from extroverted people, and extroverted people have something to learn from introverted people. Sometimes I am labeled as a bit introverted by people who are typically super chatty and talk about things that do not interest me like everyone HAS to like it (such as getting drunk). People that have met me though would know that I'm plenty social at gatherings. I love talking trash at football games for example.

But enough self indulgence. I wanted to say that it is not good to be completely introverted or extroverted. Being over-extrovert can lead to a lot of drama sometimes as they can forget to consider how people will react to their actions. Being too introverted can also be bad as communication is really important. Keep in mind that communication is more than just the language your speaking. It's the tone a voice, body language, your actions, and your inaction. As you can see from Lord HDL's post (if he doesn't mind me using him as an example), he likes to keep his post professional so it can be easily understandable and he avoids relying on memes or underlying meanings that are not noticed by everybody. I think he's a pretty good example of balance. Even though he identifies himself as introverted, he has pretty good social skills at his disposal. If he's like me, he probably had to work at it a bit compared to others whom it felt natural too.

I cannot think of an extroverted example off the top of my head who balanced him/herself... maybe Gnes? He seems pretty social, but he's a real nice and understanding dude as well.

In the Smash world, you need to be able to practice by yourself and with others. You will not improve as quickly if you do not try all methods.
 

AXE 09

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Wow, this thread made me think so much about everything...

Just something about myself... I used to be a pretty extroverted person. I always loved to be around a bunch of people, hang out with everyone, go to parties and dances, etc.. But that all changed, pretty much shortly after I started playing Melee competitively. This was the first time that I ever took any activity so seriously, and the first time that I ever wanted to be the best at something.

I don't know why, but within about a year or 2, I noticed that it became harder for me to talk to others or really be social anymore. Now, it's rare that I go out anymore, and I became so shy to the point where I'm usually the only person in the group to not say anything except for a quick "hi" or "hello." I usually have to think for a long time before I finally say something, and even after I think so much about what I want to say, I still won't say it right.

HDL, thank you for posting those articles in the OP. For the past few years, I've been so worried about myself, and I keep trying to push myself to be more extroverted and sociable but it just doesn't seem to work out. After reading through a good portion of the first article, it really made me think a lot about myself. Maybe it's ok to be who I've become, and I should embrace it instead of try to be something else. Thank you so much for making this thread HDL. You've taught me something very important.
 

HDL

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I'm glad there's so much positive feedback. I was sure there'd be people here that would benefit from this, and I know there are more of y'all out there even if you're not posting!

I used to be a pretty extroverted person.
Lots of people say this, and I think there is some slight confusion as to what it really is. Someone who is naturally introverted cannot change to become extroverted. You can exhibit extroverted qualities for a time, but at some point it's going to tire you out mentally and you'll want to plop down on your bed and just relax for a while. There are apparently studies that show that our brains actually process data differently compared to extroverts. It's hard-wired, you can't change it.

I think what you've experienced is the desire to be accepted by your peers and society, which is very common for very young introverts. I can't speak for the entire world, but in the west at least the majority is extroverted, and society creates these standards and expectations that cater to their way of being. It's natural for people like us to want to fit in and be like them at some point, because we thought that was the way normal human beings are "supposed" to be. If any of you still feel that way, you have to get over it.

It's important that people realize what kind of personality they have, because it affects all aspects of life with great importance. It can seriously be the difference between finding true happiness, or mediocrity/misery.

Some of you might be interested in this: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
 

Rubyiris

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Thread disappointed me. I was hoping for a more in-depth analysis of how you got to where you are but gave us a washed-down tl;dr version followed by a bull**** pep-talk.
 

Cosmo!

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personally I can't stand playing alone, its so boring. don't mind reading the boards though, especially back in the day

Being from the midwest, watching players like dope, tink, drephen, interact with smashers at tournaments can make you wonder, "How are these hooligans remotely good at this game?"
loloolll
 

Divinokage

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Hmm just like some people love and hate certain things about life.

Are we seriously made of duality? I don't buy it honestly because I believe we have great potential into anything we want to do. I think you definitely should do what you love but at the same time being closed off in one path is not the absolute way for growth. Because if I want to be a warrior then I am not all the other things that is possible.. I guess there's just not enough time for everything. But still I think it's good to remain open minded and acquire many skills in the process with the time that is allowed for us.

So.. as for me, I guess I could be both.. but I'm not sure honestly. I do like to be around people and learn as much as possible through fighting opponents but at the same time I like to have time for myself to meditate of my experience and gain skills I didn't think I had at the time. In general, I'm more alone than with friends however. Ugh this is weird.. lol. I'm not used to think of myself as one or the other, I don't like to put labels on anything either since again I believe we have infinite potential.
 

BigD!!!

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ive typically come up very near the line between E and I on meyers briggs tests, and can see a lot of introverted traits in my life. some people have thought that i was definitely introverted

but, strangely enough, i think im very, very extroverted when it comes to smash and the community, and while i had only thought about it in terms of interactions at tournaments, i definitely fit the bill for an extroverted player in your descriptions of style of play and improvement
 

HomeMadeWaffles

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im pretty sure im extrovert as hell when it comes to smash

but in general im chill (i wouldnt say introverted, but not too extroverted, still more extrovert than the other way around, just mad observant(shoutouts to tec0) )

when it comes to my family and the internet is where im probably the most introverted

idk it's weird

great thread!!!!!
 

TaFoKiNtS

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Keep in mind Extraverted vs introverted doesnt mean whether or not you handle social situations well.

It means where do you get your energy from?

Extraverted people get more energy from hanging out in groups and with other people and introverted people gain energy from being in smaller settings and being alone.

An introverted person can have a loud personallity and an extraverted person can be, in fact, a quiet person.
 

GMhyprid

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This is a great thread for many reasons. For me, it gave me a better idea why I seemed to improve more when I was most reflective rather than when I was playing the most frequently.

The common idea is that we get better by playing more. While this is true, it can be more beneficial at times to stop playing and start thinking without the extra pressure of needing to adapt and execute. In the limited time we have to improve, we need the right balance of actively playing and methodically thinking.

When it comes to talking, we introverts generally like to think before we speak to make sure what we say has significance. I'm guessing that it would be best if we think before we play to make sure our practice/smashfest/tournament has significance in how it helps us improve.
 

RATED

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hi there HDL.

now to the actual post:

This thread and the topic to talk about is pretty interesting. As you know I am a chatty and really extrovert person( I don't enjoy other people like me though), most of my friends are Introverts(Example: Sheikant, the one you know) as I love to talk with introverts since most of them have something of quality to say.
 

ranmaru

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I'm an extrovert. I have no trouble playing lots of people at a tournament. I'd rather play with people then by myself. : D

Also I wouldn't tell someone to go out more and not to be quiet. : ]

And I am an aggro player. I tend to jump in there and OOPS I just got attacked. I was told that my playstyle doesn't fit with the character I use, Doc. ;-;

And I do tend to say things without thinking at first.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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HDL, do you have AIM or MSN? There's something related to this subject I need to talk to you about.

:059:
 

HDL

I like pork chops.
BRoomer
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HDL, do you have AIM or MSN? There's something related to this subject I need to talk to you about.

:059:
Should've PMed me, I'm a lot more likely to notice those than browsing the forums, which I don't often do. ;)

Anyway, PM sent.

Hmm just like some people love and hate certain things about life.

Are we seriously made of duality?...... I don't like to put labels on anything either since again I believe we have infinite potential.
Not duality, but rather we lean more towards one side than the other. Think of it as a metronome. We move around in our general comfort zone, and sometimes exhibit different qualities depending on circumstances. That comfort zone varies by person. Some people are very close to the middle, and others can be closer to the far end. It's not a cut-and-dry thing but a way of understanding how our minds work.
 
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