The C-Stick

[aatami]

I'm having a problem with my SSBB group.
For some reason, even the most experienced players in my group consider using the C-Stick the most noob thing to do, after spamming, and I am not able to convince them otherwise.
Using rationale such as "Even high ranking tournament players use the C-Stick" ushers comments such as "Oh yeah? Who?" and the like, even from experienced players.
Though I am not that a bad player (nor am I that good, I have a lot of training to do), I have been labeled as a worst class C-Noob, even though I do not even use characters like Meta Knight et cetera that are labeled as typical characters most "noobs" (though I my self do not prefer to use that word) use. I actually prefer to use rarer characters.
The weirdest thing is, the group of SSBB players I belong to has some pretty good players in it...

I do aknowledge that I have to cordinate my usage better to keep smashes from becoming too weak, but it seems the whole idea of even touching the C-Sick seems out of the question, at least according to the players in my group.

So, to my actual question: Could someone direct me to a guide that would have information or rationale behind using the C-Stick, or write some? I would be very grateful if I would have some rationale, and not have myself mocked upon every time I use the C-Stick.

 

[Igoos]

That commentary that the C-stick it's just for noobs is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I love to spam my smashes and, despite the fact that I know that IS a very dumb thing, I don't really care. I mean, that's my play style. Kinda "keep him away and await your time" play style. In my opinion, don't matter if you spam them, what matter is if you can get the job done. Of course, is always good to have some fresh moves and smashes but in my case (Diddy), the only moves I prefer to hold back are F-smash, D-smash and B-air. Every other move I spam like there is no tomorrow XD, especially up smash and dash atk. Those I use to start combos.

Answering to your question, I don't have any knowledge of this kind of guide and I don't really think there is a need to. About your group, what you could do it it's observe how they play, and every time they get near to mock you about the c-stick, mock them for something of their play style.

 

[smash brother]

yea they are really ridiculous

 

[aatami]

The thing is, the biggest mockers don't play that bad themselves.

 

[BluePeachy100]

All you have to say to them is "It's not cheap or noobish, it's efficient."

 

[aatami]

All you have to say to them is "It's not cheap or noobish, it's efficient."

Yes, I know, but what I want is some rationale behind using C-Stick vs. using A+(insert direction here). Just saying that will cause laughter and questions on why.

 

[juiey2]

Dude what the hell, everything is allowed at championships, C-Stick is a part of the controller, and it was made to be USED, tell your group to F*** off

 

[Jonas]

I see you live in Finland. Who do you play with? Do you know some of the top Finnish players like Skinutski? If not, I suggest going to some legit Finnish tournaments, get hella good and **** your friends with your C-stick

 

[SonicBOOM XS]

C-sticking wasn't my favorite of methods (I STILL prefer the Wii Remote), but when I was introduced to Melee, I was forced to learn the GCN controller.

C-stick spamming is cheap, I agree, but tell your friends that C-sticks make the character use his smash attack at the lowest power, meaning that it is the equivalent of a simple direction+A attack, not a charged one. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I've tried out both and that's what I gleaned.

Still, try to use other methods instead of C-stick spamming. It's efficient, but really annoying. The thing is, you need to use it at the right time to make its use better than a charged-up smash attack.

But if the people in your group tell you off for using the C-stick, period, then ignore them. In fact, try asking around to find out which high-rankers use the C-stick with deadly efficiency.

 

[BluePeachy100]

It's just easier for people. I alternate between the A button and C-stick, I just grew to play like that. Some people use it, some don't, it just depends on the player.

 

[1544C]

Spoiler

(Sorry for the quality, I did it quickly so I dont know what happened)

Is there someone who can do this without C-stick?

 

[Jonas]

C-stick spamming is cheap, I agree, but tell your friends that C-sticks make the character use his smash attack at the lowest power, meaning that it is the equivalent of a simple direction+A attack, not a charged one. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I've tried out both and that's what I gleaned.

Still, try to use other methods instead of C-stick spamming. It's efficient, but really annoying. The thing is, you need to use it at the right time to make its use better than a charged-up smash attack.

Newcomers have many misconceptions about what is "cheap" or which tactics "should" or "should not" be used. In reality, any move or tactic can be labeled "cheap" depending on whom you ask, and as such it is best to ignore the notion of "cheapness" altogether. In a competitive enviroment, the only moves or tactics you SHOULD use are those that enhance your chances of winning, and the moves and tactics that SHOULD NOT be used are those that prevent you from winning.

Spamming forward smash over and over again isn't even a good idea, and it doesn't work against any competent player.

 

[Jebu-95]

Who is this Aatami guy, I've never heard of him o__O

Dude, do you live anywhere close to Helsinki? You should pay a visit to http://ssbb.8forum.net/c1-ssbb-fin
thats our Brawl forum. Go to "Portal" and you'll find our main xat. We got tournaments pretty much on a every-second month-basis (like once in 2 months) or something.
You guys should deffinitely come to tournaments. It's just amazing how many new players we've been getting recently. From the Melee dominant scene that we had a year ago when there were only 3-4 active Brawlers. Our offline community has now grown to about 34 active offline players. And like I said, we're constantly getting more.

And the thing about c-stick being "cheap" is just ridiculous. Cheap is only a word that unexperienced players use to whine about tactics that they cannot beat.

 

[FIREL]

Spoiler

(Sorry for the quality, I did it quickly so I dont know what happened)

Is there someone who can do this without C-stick?

Sometimes =P

 

[SonicBOOM XS]

Sometimes =P

Maybe, provided you give me my lucky Wii Remote...

@Jonas: I see your point there, but there are some things that CAN be considered cheap. Of course, those moves are usually banned (Infinite Cape for MK), so your point stands.

 

[aatami]

Who is this Aatami guy, I've never heard of him o__O

Dude, do you live anywhere close to Helsinki? You should pay a visit to http://ssbb.8forum.net/c1-ssbb-fin
thats our Brawl forum. Go to "Portal" and you'll find our main xat. We got tournaments pretty much on a every-second month-basis (like once in 2 months) or something.
You guys should deffinitely come to tournaments. It's just amazing how many new players we've been getting recently. From the Melee dominant scene that we had a year ago when there were only 3-4 active Brawlers. Our offline community has now grown to about 34 active offline players. And like I said, we're constantly getting more.

And the thing about c-stick being "cheap" is just ridiculous. Cheap is only a word that unexperienced players use to whine about tactics that they cannot beat.

Thanks, I came to the xat now, and registered too.

 

[-Ran]

Pretty much every competitive player that I've ever met in the forty plus tournaments that I've gone to all uses the C-stick, in multiple states and regions. To take it from a Smash Back Room member, the C-stick is just efficient [less of a chance for a mistake as well] and allows for better controller aerials [fading away while forward airing, etc.]

 

[TL?]

Tell your friends the B button is cheap. It's an equally valid point. Also, anyone who loses to smash attack spam is awful, especcially considering how good shielding is in brawl.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Spoiler

(Sorry for the quality, I did it quickly so I dont know what happened)

Is there someone who can do this without C-stick?

So uh... how did you charge a smash attack with the C-stick exactly?


Anyways. Using the Cstick is not noobish at all, maybe if you spammed smashes with them but for arieal attacks they are a must. Sometimes I'll need to do a bair while moving foward, or a fair while moving backwards, I can only do that effeciently with a C-stick.

And what about Diddy Kong users? They need to use the C-Stick in order to glide toss.

 

[1544C]

So uh... how did you charge a smash attack with the C-stick exactly?

With the control stick im walking to the right then I press at the same time left c-stick and A button.
In this case:
-The control stick makes luigi slide while doing a smash attack
-I do a left smash with the C-stick
-I press the A button to charge the left smash

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

if worst comes to worst then just play with different smashers lol

purposely trying to take out the c-stick will just worsen your game.

 

[lordvaati]

nah, C stick is legit.

after all, we wouldn't have wavebouncing without it.

 

[Ghostbone]

C-stick is definitely really important if you want to get good.

Some techniques are almost impossible without it, and some are impossible without it.

Instant pivot grabbing for example, you need to hit one direction with the control stick, the other with the c-stick and press grab, and you'll do a pivot grab in the direction you hit the c-stick.
If you try to do it with only the control stick you'll dash-dance and do a running grab.

Edit: saying the c-stick is cheap is like saying the grab button is cheap. As pressing z has the same effect as pressing a + l/r, just as pressing the c-stick has the same effect as hitting the control stick + a.

 

[majora_787]

Never listen to your friends about what is and isn't cheap.

I spent a year of my life thinking grabs and throws were a cheap nooby tactic. Why? I listened to my friends.

Then I joined Smashboards and got real, actually legit opinions on things.





And also. Ahem... *Proud C-Stick User*

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO

 

[Hippieslayer]

Your friends are idiots and the burden of proof shouldnt be on you. Ask them which top world players they know for sure are not using C-stick.

Furthermore the C-stick as has allready been mentioned is required for some AT's aswell for all aerials except neutral. You simply can't space as well using A for aerials as you can if you use C-stick.

 

[pkmntrainerRed]

For some reason all-throughout melee I was under the impression that the c-stick was for noobs. mind you i didn't know anything about competitive play (I was still the best player I knew, but I didn't go to smashboards or anything). now i realize how amazing it is. No idea why I thought that. can't play Melee Jiggs and Brawl Kirby without it

 

[SuperMetroid44]

People who use C-stick are definitely not noobs; it seems your friends just can't take their losts well, so they're picking on you to relieve whatever anger they have with losing or whatever.

I mean, as long as you're not like "FORWARD SMASH, FORWARD SMASH, UP SMASH, FOWARD SMASH" then you're fine.

 

[tekkie]

no, your friends are not good at this game if they don't use the c-stick.

also, charge smashes with cstick and Z. awwww yeah.

 

[Pandu!]

LOL.
This thread = the reason I hate this board.
A short list of things that are impossible without the c-stick:
floating backwards while f-airing or f-throwing a turnip with Peach
maintaining aerial momentum in general and aerial-ing in the opposite direction with EVERY character
Instant pivotgrabbing
forward-smashing WITHOUT the 1/100 chance of pratfalling (I bet you even some of the brawl vets didn't know this)
plenty of other stuff that I can't gather the effort to remember right now

Various facts about the c-stick:
Super Smash Bros. Brawl recognizes the input as a single tap of the A-button+tap in a direction, in the same manner that it recognizes Z as R+A. As such, you can use it to pivot-walk, or roll/spotdodge/jump if you hold R/L.
Also as a result of the above, you can charge a c-stick smash if you hold A or Z.
Each smash attack has a charge frame, and if you release A+Direction before this frame, not using the C-stick becomes EXACTLY THE SAME as using it. -_-

Oh yeah, and EVERYONE in tournaments uses it. I have yet to meet an exception to that statement.

If your friends complain about it, keep using it (intelligently). Use it until they either realize they have to change to beat you, realize that you're just spamming easily punishable smashes, or until they freaking quit. Either way, you rid yourself of horrible, self-deprecating "competition" in favor of playstyles that will help you improve. If they end up hating you for it, they'll get over it, and if they don't then they sound like the kind of people I would never want to hang out with.

I don't know why I wrote so much text for this... I guess when topics like this pop up it just makes me peeved enough to post.

 

[MonkUnit]

I mean, as long as you're not like "DOWN SMASH DOWN SMASH DOWN SMASH DOWN SMASH" then you're fine.

Fix'd.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Fix'd.

Fix'd.

All the pros downsmash as MK.

 

[MonkUnit]

so pr o

 

[trickyghost]

There's nothing wrong at all with using the c-stick, I've just started implementing into my game more and it has helped alot. In most situations I find that the stick is faster and more efficient to use than A+Direction. The cheap and spammy comments your friends made are kind of dumb because you can be just as "spammy" with the A button.

 

[Beninator]

How is C-Smashing any more cheap then grabbing with the Z button?

People in my area use the C-Stick a lot when playing Brawl. I have been told that the C-Stick is a few frames slower than using the standard stick thing in Melee, so perhaps these players you know assumed it was slower in Brawl as well.

 

[Host Change]

Cheap is only a word that unexperienced players use to whine about tactics that they cannot beat.

I love it! Great quote!

And the C-stick is used to pull off some of the coolest AT's. Anybody who says you can't use it is wrong. I don't rely on it for everything, but if I occasionally need to get off the quick down smash I'll be a C-sticker. Also I use it to DACUS as wel as do other things...

 

[pkmntrainerRed]

Oh, I was playing Break the Targets in Melee yesterday and remembered why I had that idea that the C-Stick was for noobs...
You can't use it in 1 player mode. Why would they not let you use it?

 

[link2702]

telll them its their fault for being ******** and holding themselves back on anything

juts like some idiots in that group who probably think using falco's chaingrab or laser locking on someone is "noobish" its the other idiots fault for getting setup in it, you are playing to win, not playing with "honor" the whole group you are in honestly sounds like noobs themselves, the mroe skilled player is the player playing to win, not the one "holding back his characters potential because he feels its "cheap" or not honorable" and at the end of the day, the results are what matters, its who won, not who fought with the most "honor"

 

[Zajice]

...really?

This thread is real?

REALLY?




It's noobish to NOT use the c-stick. It's vital for multiple techniques, DI, and even basic tactics like retreating aerials.

 

[Sunnysunny]

The inner-troll in me, wants to find this kid and do nothing but c-stick.