The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[shanus]

Beta 4.0 Livestream is now up:

http://www.justin.tv/shanus19

 

[Revven]

Then you wouldn't mind it being changed, right? We should do our best to make every stage playable just as we are trying to make every character playable.

We shouldn't try to change every stage to make EVERY stage tourney viable, that's just... ridiculous. Some or rather a lot of stages weren't meant for competition at all. A fine example would be Electroplankton or 75m, those two stages couldn't ever really be tourney viable due to the way they work as a stage and breaking them up with the death boundary mod is NOT going to solve anything, it'll make them worse.

Norfair is a terrible stage in vBrawl, it's banned now for most tourneys nowadays due to the large stage, platforms, ledgestalling, and MK (yes, MK basically singlehandedly got this stage banned because of all the bull**** tricks he had). I, personally, do not want to try and fix Norfair as it isn't worth our time due to the platforms it has, there's no way you can possibly hope to fix it as it encourages camping and ledgestalling more than anything (even though ledgestalls were nerfed in Brawl+).

I'd rather work on a stage like Spear Pillar and try to find a good medium for that awesome stage than Norfair which is looking impossible to fix in its current state.

 

[ToxiCrow]

i hav a question: For Brawl+ 4.0, can we make Sheik's f-air a semi-spike again? ( sorry if this has been asked before, but i'm just curious)

 

[GPDP]

i hav a question: For Brawl+ 4.0, can we make Sheik's f-air a semi-spike again? ( sorry if this has been asked before, but i'm just curious)

oh god no. That's part of what made that move so broken in the first place.

It's been buffed knockback-wise plenty in the latest beta. It can kill now at around 120%, and serves as an excellent gimping tool. However, it does not semi-spike, and I think it should stay that way. Make it a semi-spike, and it will become unbalanced IMO.

 

[Adetque]

A suggestion:
If it's possible, make lucas's zair actually do damage. Just a thought.

 

[leafgreen386]

A suggestion:
If it's possible, make lucas's zair actually do damage. Just a thought.

Well, if it was possible to make it load TL's zair hitbox when lucas does his zair, it might work. Though that's not really something we're able to do. Maybe at some point in the future, something like this would be possible, though.

 

[ToxiCrow]

oh god no. That's part of what made that move so broken in the first

It's been buffed knockback-wise plenty in the latest beta. It can kill now at around 120%, and serves as an excellent gimping tool. However, it does not semi-spike, and I think it should stay that way. Make it a semi-spike, and it will become unbalanced IMO.

meh.
fair enough =]

A suggestion:
If it's possible, make lucas's zair actually do damage. Just a thought.

i'd like that

 

[Swordplay]

I like norfair the way it is now. I think it is a perfectly good counterpick. Ledge stalling and planking have been deterred with no ASL.

I'd only really change it if we decided later down the line it was unviable. This stage alone game a lot of low/bottom tier characters in VB a great counterpick due to its unique layout and I commend it for that.

If you have any doubts (SMK), Go watch Deva's Link beat DSF's MK on norfair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMen9KvflM

 

[Teronist09]

Dont know.. I've never liked the layout of norfair actually, doesn't promote ground game (just platforms and not enough space on them), and too much edgeguarding, dunno it just doesn't fit to me xD

You've never mained Ganon, then. Ganon lives on Norfair.

The lava stuff rain and walls on norfair are annoying, sure, but I don't think it's really that big of a deal. It can throw off a game if you're not paying attention (which should only happen in friendlies) but, the rain at least, is pretty avoidable. I'd be up for less kb on all the lava stuff, though. Just not necessarily no kb.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

id just like to say that i am 100% against the recent sheik fair buff. it really makes sheik a very linear character. part of what made her an interesting character to play was that her killing options were bad, but the different ways she could finish you off were many. now that her approach move is her finisher, you've turned her into another marth... her best killing option will always be fair now. making her very one dimensional. and she didn't even need this in the first place. i always saw sheik and DK as characters that were very balanced and needed no changes, now she's tipping the scale with the new fair buff.

i don't know what to give her because i thought she was fine. she had a fun fair gimp game, but now it's like a one hit ~90% kill off the stage.

 

[CyberGlitch]

Now that code limit is no problem via snapshot and the future Gecko OS, I think the codes that automatically unlock all the characters and stages should be included. This would help in the tourny standardization and prevent freezing issues caused when certain stages aren't unlocked and the stage freezer code is used.

I think the move needs a buff, but the current buff might be a bit too strong, I'd say the same for Jiggly's rest.

 

[kupo15]

I am really disappointed in the direction brawl+ is going and has been in the past several weeks. Several people claim that this game is "fine" or that its "perfect" and everything is so good we don't need to change much. Yea, the game is good but the way its going right now, I don't feel brawl+ will have the lasting appeal it should have. Its still too slow and too defensive and people have been looking the other way and shoving this fact under the rug as if they don't want to face the truth; not to mention mocking the people who mention it. There are a lot of excuses as to why such a change shouldn't be implemented such as the amount of time one spent working a code.(this is not directed towards the hackers) Honestly, I could care less how much time you spent working the codes we have. I care about the results. If we can tweak it more than what has been tweaked to make it better, we do it regardless. Just because it seems a little extreme on paper does not make it wrong automatically.

A lot of people are really conservative and are only limiting this game to what happens in vbrawl. Some examples are not upping gravity because it changes X thing while also providing huge benefits to the game. Given the amount of codes we have and what we can do with them, there is no excuse for not implementing higher gravity due to the side effects it brings because its fixable. We can fix the jumps and the recoveries that suffer from higher gravity so that is no longer a scapegoat to not using higher gravity. Line space is no longer a valid excuse to reject anything anymore either.

It appears to me that people are reluctant to make this game the best it can be by whatever means necessary. They are too focused on making it function like vbrawl or just turn things down by principle of the code without even trying it. Why would you burden this project with things that don't work, are bad from vbrawl, or not even consider/try codes out that have a reasonable explanation why it should be included? That just doesn't make sense. We have the power to make this game the best smash game in the series and most people are content with making it a "satisfactory" game. It is an insult to the hackers who work hard to provide the codes for us if we purposely choose NOT to maximize the codes we get to their full potential in fear of it changing too much from vbrawl.

We can do better and this has to stop. I feel that if we keep going down this path, brawl+ will not get where it needs to be or be as successful as it can become. This community is very closed minded and biased. We need to pull from all our resources and if we don't, this game will never reach the full potential it is capable of. I don't care if this game pulls a lot from 64, or melee, or brawl, and I don't care if this game doesn't even resemble any of the smash games including brawl. It just has to work and be the best it can be.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I vote for, pulls a lot from Melee.

 

[Almas]

Erm. A linear increase to gamespeed is already possible. For some reason increasing the speed of animations also increases the distance they travel (for example, making the dash animation faster makes you run faster). For some animations, anyways. It's kinda hard to tell which using Iggly's video.

You're saying these things are "swept under the rug", though. That would suggest that people think they are issues but refuse to acknowledge them. I think many people would just agree that they are not issues. There are many, many ways around camping now.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

ok, me and my teammates have been playing the hell outta 4.0 and here's what we got:

-NO FREEZES

-Rest is too easily combo'ed into. I know how to DI amazingly(I can survive melee fox's Uthrow>Uair at like 127%) and my teammate Dory(3rd Best Mario in US) loves jiggs and thats his B+ main and his bread and butter is Dthrow>Uair>Rest on like half the cast(maybe more but thats all we play) and if i SmashDI both moves he can still land it. He says its harder to do(obv) but it shouldnt be guaranteed. Its only 0% on some though

-Mario ***** if u dont tech or should i say Dthrow>Fair>Jab Reset owns,LOL

-NOT SURE, but it feels sheiks ftilt was fixed, maybe we were DI'ing it right or something but it was ****** like usual, if someone decomfirms this this should be fixed(obv)

-MK's UpB NERF NEEDS TO HAPPEN NOW NOW NOW NOW(less KB, this should be obvious)

-REQUEST:Ganon and Falcon's DownB jump reset, please!

-I personally feel Aerial Lag should be upped because of sheild stun, I feel its too easy to pressure a shield while being safe at the same time

-Dont know if its been mentioned, but can we get rid of the shy guys on Yoshi's they get in the way alot(projectiles,hitlag, ness/lucas recovery,etc)

We still play melee, so we play more aggressive than the average vB player. I feel playing campy is just another option and camping can get u ***** or win u the game depending on all the variables in a strategy(char,player,stage,opponent,etc)

 

[kupo15]

You're saying these things are "swept under the rug", though. That would suggest that people think they are issues but refuse to acknowledge them. I think many people would just agree that they are not issues.

People look the other way without good reasoning. Like people won't give ICers dgrav because "omg their recovery will suffer" yet we can make any animation have a different gravity setting. So instead of addressing this and working with it, they simply give an excuse and move on. Even when newer players post about the slow play, it is ignored. Higher gravity helps the game and we can fix the side effects. Floatiness makes the game too slow and easy. That is just one example but the stubborness of this entire community is sickening

There are many, many ways around camping now.

I guess your telling these guys they are wrong then?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7049160&postcount=10043

 

[GHNeko]

I dont remember anyone complaining B+ was too slow...besides you.

Can I get some quotes/links plz.

 

[kupo15]

I dont remember anyone complaining B+ was too slow...besides you.

Can I get some quotes/links plz.

uh, the link above me? No one usually camps or use the full power of the defensive game because we don't want to. We want to have an active fighter but choosing not to purposely slow the game down and pretending it doesn't exist isn't the right way to go about it.

*General complaint: The game is still very campy and slow (video proof available). Camping still beats every other approach, but we mostly refused to do it since it's so stupid. Side-dodge is broken on most characters. MK is still easily the best character. Most character's jab is way overpowered.

I guess these guys' opinions don't matter, huh? >_>

 

[Almas]

Erm, yes, I am saying they're wrong.

It sounds by the post that this was the first time playing for many of these people. If they've been playing vBrawl before, then camping is probably what they do best. Even if they've been playing melee, they'll probably be trying vBrawl strategies. From the amount of time they played, it's very probable that they didn't develop very much of a metagame. It takes time to figure out the best ways to beat any particular strategy, and I don't find it unreasonable to make the assertion that maybe these players didn't have the time to do this.

The fact that such skilled players are playing Brawl+ is great news to me - it means that eventually they'll be contributing loads to the scene not only in furthering the game but also getting more people. However, I think it's outrageous to make the proposition that upon picking up the game they immediately know how best to change it, especially as there is only a loose correlation between a person's ability in-game, and their ability to make good decisions as to how to alter the game. With the customizability that Brawl+ brings, often it brings with it the mentality that if someone can't find a way around a strategy, the strategy is overpowered. When instead, they probably haven't spent enough time figuring out how to beat it yet.

 

[Team Giza]

I'm in agreement with Almas here. We really got to put more time into stuff like this. I'll look into what they said and see if you can really get away with camping jabs and the other things they mentioned. Even though personally I think there needs to be some changes to spotdodging and airdodging I dont think the reason given by those players is enough to really know if a change is needed.

id just like to say that i am 100% against the recent sheik fair buff. it really makes sheik a very linear character.

I completely agree with this post. I am also worried about how this is going to effect her combo game overall and her double fair gimps off stage. Sheik did not need this even after her f-tilt nerf. I do agree that she might need some buffs but I don't think buffing the fair like this is what she needs.

 

[shanus]

The fact that they just played it for the first time adds no balance validity to their statements. You should know that better than anyone Kupo. Its like if you go handed Brawl+ to a veteran diddy Brawler. Do you think they are gonna all of a sudden stop camping and realize all the new potential set ups they can do? Hell no. They take time to learn the new systems and takes time to deviate from the original campy metagame they are used to. Now they have the option to approach but don't know quite how to unless they are metaknight who can just hurl himself at anyone without much regard.

I want to see these players opinions upon Beta4.0 public release after some increased time of playing with it. I love to hear first impressions, but I only take them with a grain of salt because thats all they are, first impressions. Their seasoned expertise in a completely new environment helps them adapt quicker, but by no means substantiates their claims to fact after a few hours of playtime.


BTW Kupo, I know you want more gravity. But you weren't involved in the Beta1 fun times. It felt like lead boots to everyone, and people HATED IT. Hated. I repeat, hated. As much as you want this to be something so foreign to the smash community, its meant to be a part of it. Having a character run around as if they are metal may be ideal for you, but if its 99 players against it and you for it, I think you know what way we are going to choose. Beta 1 was not a shining moment for B+, and I think a valuable lesson is learned here. High gravity is not a welcome addition in most of the communities eyes, and this is a community project. We need a large playerbase for this to succeed.

Also, as an overarching trend, with each post it seems like you just want B+ to be like melee. I love melee and I mean no offense to you from it, but B+ really doesn't need to play at that speed to be a good game.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

kupo, i hope your post wasn't a response to mine.

if it is then please know that i am all for pushing brawl+ to it's limit and it's fullest potential, but i am against making all characters akuma/metaknight status. a few weeks ago i would have said that we can take the marvel vs capcom 2 method of balancing things and make everyone broken, but the more i play and the more i examine the game, i start to realize it's not just the strengths but the WEAKNESSES of a character that makes them really enjoyable to play. you have to get past your character's shortcomings and make up for it in departments that your character shines at.

characters like MK, rob, kirby, gamewatch, marth are all such a snore for me to play. MK, for example, has no weakness, essentially. give me captain falcon over any of those characters any day. he's incredibly flawed in that he has no safe approach or safe poke attack, but he's fun.. why? there's that thrill of risk/reward.

by giving sheik that fair buff (or the link recovery buff, or the proposed DK recovery buff that was thankfully scraped), among other things that people are proposing, you kind of iron out the lumps in terms of a character's risk factor. where a metaknight player is accustomed to a very smooth landscape, a captain falcon or olimar player has peaks and mountains and all kinds of rough terrain to deal with.

so no kupo, if that was a response to me. i do not want to limit the project by any means. we can do anything at this point, so why not? but i think we should aim to keep character's sensibly balanced in that they should be proficient in whatever department or niche they belong to but be fatally flawed at something else.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I miss auto jab and no ad during tumble
computers also play better with no ad during tumble.

 

[Greenpoe]

The intention of the Sheik fair buff was that everyone should have a move to reliably KO beyond 120% at the edge of FD, so the example of the non-buffed fair killing Mario at 150%, so it was recommended to drop down to 120%. The new fair buff, however, kills lvl 9 Mario at the edge of FD at 110% (by force) and 100% (where he dies off the bottom due to not recovering). It was agreed that Melee-fair was ridiculously powerful, and Brawl-fair was ridiculously weak, but the new fair is too strong. So if it kills at the edge of FD at 135% (15% lower than vBrawl, and 25% higher than the buffed fair), that would be more ideal. It'd be better to put it leaning toward not-enough KO power (thus 135%) rather than too much. The less she has, the more she needs to rely on edgegaurds.

 

[Dantarion]

BTW, I just thought about this....do you guys want actual webspace?

Cuz I got sommme...

 

[Eight 52]

Shiek buff is still stupid. Every single tilt of hers leads into fair like melee. Difference now is that brawl exaggerates this to the extreme. If you want a kill move, buff bair a little bit and use it for edgeguarding, since shiek is more of a gimp character now than a roflstomp character.

 

[shanus]

So what is the consensus on sheik? I'd like to hear opinions on bair or uair vs fair so I can make the necessary changes

 

[goodoldganon]

I just want to say I play with a friend who camps. He plays D3 and Lucario. Guess what? I can beat the camping game. I can beat it because I have been playing B+ for a long time now. I have been here since most of the major patches and I have asked for help from other players on how to deal with certain matchups. I'd like to know the characters he was getting camped against. EVERY character could and should camp in vBrawl. Just because we still have a few that camp and camp well doesn't mean we need to change that. Everyone doesn't have to be a combo machine.

Sanzuni has valid points (D3, G and W, and Peach) but others will be ironed out with more play time. Either way, as Shanus said, higher gravity sucked. It sucked really really bad. I played with lead boots in Melee for 7 years and I can go back anytime. What I absolutely love about vBrawl and B+ is the off the stage game. Even Bowser can get off the stage a little bit and cause some havoc. Higher gravity ruined that.

I hate to keep quoting or following Shanus, but he makes every point I'd make. The fact is many people love the way B+ has gone. Many people love the fact that it still feels like vBrawl and the jump from one to the other isn't so jarring.


EDIT: I agree that the F-air buff for Sheik is boring. I'm no expert with her, but I at least enjoyed the occasional random with her from time to time. If we need to give her a buff because she lost the F-tilt lock (she doesn't need a buff though) buff the u-air. We need more vertical KOs. It's not a good approach move and it doesn't combo once you get past the mid percents.

 

[kupo15]

Erm, yes, I am saying they're wrong.

It sounds by the post that this was the first time playing for many of these people. If they've been playing vBrawl before, then camping is probably what they do best. Even if they've been playing melee, they'll probably be trying vBrawl strategies. From the amount of time they played, it's very probable that they didn't develop very much of a metagame. It takes time to figure out the best ways to beat any particular strategy, and I don't find it unreasonable to make the assertion that maybe these players didn't have the time to do this.

The fact that such skilled players are playing Brawl+ is great news to me - it means that eventually they'll be contributing loads to the scene not only in furthering the game but also getting more people. However, I think it's outrageous to make the proposition that upon picking up the game they immediately know how best to change it, especially as there is only a loose correlation between a person's ability in-game, and their ability to make good decisions as to how to alter the game. With the customizability that Brawl+ brings, often it brings with it the mentality that if someone can't find a way around a strategy, the strategy is overpowered. When instead, they probably haven't spent enough time figuring out how to beat it yet.

Erm, you don't have to be a vet to recognize something is slow

The fact that they just played it for the first time adds no balance validity to their statements. You should know that better than anyone Kupo. Its like if you go handed Brawl+ to a veteran diddy Brawler. Do you think they are gonna all of a sudden stop camping and realize all the new potential set ups they can do? Hell no. They take time to learn the new systems and takes time to deviate from the original campy metagame they are used to. Now they have the option to approach but don't know quite how to unless they are metaknight who can just hurl himself at anyone without much regard.

I want to see these players opinions upon Beta4.0 public release after some increased time of playing with it. I love to hear first impressions, but I only take them with a grain of salt because thats all they are, first impressions. Their seasoned expertise in a completely new environment helps them adapt quicker, but by no means substantiates their claims to fact after a few hours of playtime.


BTW Kupo, I know you want more gravity. But you weren't involved in the Beta1 fun times. It felt like lead boots to everyone, and people HATED IT. Hated. I repeat, hated. As much as you want this to be something so foreign to the smash community, its meant to be a part of it. Having a character run around as if they are metal may be ideal for you, but if its 99 players against it and you for it, I think you know what way we are going to choose. Beta 1 was not a shining moment for B+, and I think a valuable lesson is learned here. High gravity is not a welcome addition in most of the communities eyes, and this is a community project. We need a large playerbase for this to succeed.

Also, as an overarching trend, with each post it seems like you just want B+ to be like melee. I love melee and I mean no offense to you from it, but B+ really doesn't need to play at that speed to be a good game.

Um, no. My last beta set I ever made was faster than the currently plussery and had a higher gravity and did not feel like lead boots. If it feels like lead boots, then you just messed up on jump compensation. I have tested some really high gravity values before and it did not feel like lead boots because I properly adjusted for the jumps

I hate to keep quoting or following Shanus, but he makes every point I'd make. The fact is many people love the way B+ has gone. Many people love the fact that it still feels like vBrawl and the jump from one to the other isn't so jarring.
.

And many people loved my last codeset which was faster, had higher gravity without jump compensation and didn't feel like lead boots. Ever since the plussery came out, its been nothing but conservative, slow play. Just because you failed at making higher gravity word, doesn't mean it higher gravity is bad or doesn't work.

 

[shanus]

WHat about the other repurcussions for higher grav kupo? If all you care about is slow, go get a universal speed mod which works. If lightning mode can work, so can a universal speed mod.

Higher grav would force us to first get a hitbox code which alters throw knockback and then modify EVERY throw knockback individually to compensate for higher grav (tilts also, prolly even some smashes). Did you know at some gravs of like 1.2 or so, some characters don't even leave the ground from a throw? Furthermore it kills the edge game and the natural tie-in between brawl and brawl+ of the more centralized "floatier air game." I don't say this just because people didn't like it, its because gravity is not the way to fix your crave for speed. If you want cracked out speed, play melee or get a universal speed code.

 

[Sanu]

From the amount of time they played, it's very probable that they didn't develop very much of a metagame.

Oh really? Give some of the best melee players in the country (canadalol) 5 hours with Brawl+ and we don't develop any sense of a metagame? Not to mention that we originally played vBrawl, learned the metagame etc, before we realized how stupid it was. I'll be getting those vids up to show you how wrong you are then. I'm near 100% sure we could beat any of the players here, asides from perhaps GHNeko (although most of his combos stem from poor DI and lack of teching), solely based on the terrible videos you guys have on display.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I've been playing Brawl+ for a VERY LONG TIME (See: since the Melee AD code was first introduced). Granted, our complaints are currently baseless without any viewable video proof; but your claims have zero backing to them at all. It's probable? Great assumption.

 

[shanus]

Oh really? Give some of the best melee players in the country (canadalol) 5 hours with Brawl+ and we don't develop any sense of a metagame? Not to mention that we originally played vBrawl, learned the metagame etc, before we realized how stupid it was. I'll be getting those vids up to show you how wrong you are then. I'm near 100% sure we could beat any of the players here, asides from perhaps GHNeko (although most of his combos stem from poor DI and lack of teching), solely based on the terrible videos you guys have on display.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I've been playing Brawl+ for a VERY LONG TIME (See: since the Melee AD code was first introduced). Granted, our complaints are currently baseless without any viewable video proof; but your claims have zero backing to them at all. It's probable? Great assumption.

Ill MM you any day, any time when your in the US. I'm also sure TheCape will or shortline. We are such total scrubs. Drop the superior attitude. They are great melee players and played a lot of vB and melee. Doesn't mean they are pro B+ yet. It takes time to figure out a lot of the new options, and 5 hours does not suffice. First impressions are called first impressions for a reason.

Lemme make an analogy: I started taking a class in organometallic chemistry. I'm a great organic chemist. That means I'm a pro organometallic chemist from my first few classes, right? I mean I have all the orgo background and experience, but I just tried something new and can apply some things. Clearly I'm an expert in it now.

Its a totally different game. Post your vids. Show your pro B+ metagame.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Oh really? Give some of the best melee players in the country (canadalol) 5 hours with Brawl+ and we don't develop any sense of a metagame? Not to mention that we originally played vBrawl, learned the metagame etc, before we realized how stupid it was. I'll be getting those vids up to show you how wrong you are then. I'm near 100% sure we could beat any of the players here, asides from perhaps GHNeko (although most of his combos stem from poor DI and lack of teching), solely based on the terrible videos you guys have on display.

Your overconfidence is annoying, shut up.

 

[DarkDragoon]

o.o I support Sheik getting killing power with Fair ~20% sooner, that doesn't seem so bad. You can DI out of the way like you can in Melee. No biggy. >_>.

<_< And 5 hours, like everyone else said, is not enough to learn a metagame. That's like saying sitting down with Melee for 10 hours would get you the hang of it, and Brawl+ doesn't even have things to reference back to for support like Melee does.

Seriously, I have some of my state's top players picking up Brawl+ and they love every second of it because they recognize it as an improved Brawl, and they're not expecting it to turn it into a second Melee.

Like they said, Melee-Type Combos and improved Brawl physics is one of the most fun things they've ever played.
-DD

 

[Sanu]

Ill MM you any day, any time when your in the US. I'm also sure TheCape will or shortline. We are such total scrubs. Drop the superior attitude. They are great melee players and played a lot of vB and melee. Doesn't mean they are pro B+ yet. It takes time to figure out a lot of the new options, and 5 hours does not suffice. First impressions are called first impressions for a reason.

Lemme make an analogy: I started taking a class in organometallic chemistry. I'm a great organic chemist. That means I'm a pro organometallic chemist from my first few classes, right? I mean I have all the orgo background and experience, but I just tried something new and can apply some things. Clearly I'm an expert in it now.

Its a totally different game. Post your vids. Show your pro B+ metagame.

u-air x3 to knee on someone who doesn't DI at all. That's pretty good

 

[Roxas215]

Also, as an overarching trend, with each post it seems like you just want B+ to be like melee. I love melee and I mean no offense to you from it, but B+ really doesn't need to play at that speed to be a good game.

QFT.

Brawl+ should not try to be melee 2.0.

Also i have yet to hear any one else say brawl+ is too slow.

 

[shanus]

u-air x3 to knee on someone who doesn't DI at all. That's pretty good

Lol, you even got that wrong. Nair uair x2 knee when they DI'd in and up instead of away. Hence why I posted a pretty combo of me punishing them for messing up. I didn't even make the GIF either, a friend in the IRC did and I thought it looked nice in my sig

I'm still waiting for a legit answer. Your a big talker with no videos whereas I post good and ****ty videos of me without care on youtube. Hell watch my livestreams even if you want proof. Come and money match me or any of us at Chibos in May if your so cocky ;P

 

[Sanu]

Lol, you even got that wrong. Nair uair x2 knee when they DI'd in and up instead of away. Hence why I posted a pretty combo of me punishing them for messing up.

aw noes, your gif is too boring to pay attention to woe is me... and who the **** in their right mind would DI up and towards when being comboed at low percents? Apparently really good players.

I'm still waiting for a legit answer. Your a big talker with no videos whereas I post good and ****ty videos of me without care on youtube. Hell watch my livestreams even if you want proof. Come and money match me or any of us at Chibos in May if your so cocky ;P

Wait all you want, you aren't getting a thing until 4-5 hours from now. I'm at work <_<. Oh and, you guys consider Shortfuse to have a good Marth; shows how much knowledge of the game you guys have XD... no hate to Shortfuse, love that guy ;P

 

[goodoldganon]

I enjoy talking big on the internet cause I don't need to provide any proof or accept any challenge.

 

[kupo15]

WHat about the other repurcussions for higher grav kupo? If all you care about is slow, go get a universal speed mod which works. If lightning mode can work, so can a universal speed mod.

Lol wow. So tell me what non fixable repercussions higher gravity brings? Good going in suggesting something so stupid as fake speed like lightening mode and turning the other way on the real problem behind slow play.

Higher grav would force us to first get a hitbox code which alters throw knockback and then modify EVERY throw knockback individually to compensate for higher grav (tilts also, prolly even some smashes).

I guess you forgot (or ignored) the DI manipulation code method I suggested that would globally fix that problem. But I guess you really don't care about this problem seeing how falcon for one is quite heavy and under your definition, suffers from this at the moment yet you chose to do nothing about it

Did you know at some gravs of like 1.2 or so, some characters don't even leave the ground from a throw?

Like who? IIRC falcon right now is the heaviest and is at least 1.2 and Ive never went nowhere unless it was one of the broken throws.

Furthermore it kills the edge game and the natural tie-in between brawl and brawl+ of the more centralized "floatier air game." .

Kills the edge game? That's funny. Yea if you make it 2.0 gravity. Natural tie between brawl and brawl+? I'm sorry, but the game that succeeds and stands the test of time are the games that are fundamentally sound and are good games, not the games that behave like failed games.

I don't say this just because people didn't like it, its because gravity is not the way to fix your crave for speed. If you want cracked out speed, play melee or get a universal speed code

lol, so artificial speed is the solution to speed problems, not gravity which is the root of the problem. Gotcha. And I don't want to play melee with its exploits. I don't want to play with that metagame anymore either. I don't want this game to be melee and I certainly don't want it to feel like vbrawl either